Lost five fish last night

[Tazman282]

I have had a saltwater tank setup in the past that was going well and stable for five years but in a sense still a newbie.

Some background info to get a better idea:

I recently reset my tank up six months or less ago with all dry rock 72 Gal tank with 60 lbs of dry rock. I did need to reseal the tank but am sure I used 100% silicone. I cycled the tank for about 1.5 months and added in bacteria and also seeded with one piece of live rock. I have had a nitrate problem but nothing water changes couldn't take care of while I was waiting for the bacteria to continue to buildup in the tank. Highest was 40.

I changed out my skimmer as the one I had setup wasn't working properly as my sump wasn't big enough so I have a Sea Side CS7 now. I also have about 10 lbs of rubble in sump which could be a reason for higher then necessary nitrates. Going to take that out and put in one or two bigger pieces with a power head to ensure nothing sits in that section. I also have 1/2 lb cheeto. Overall the I have about 600 GPH going through the sump.

Trying to think of everything I did yesterday, I did wash my hands often with a scented soap that is new but I always rinse well and dry off my hands. I did use some cleaners but nothing near the tank and I most always wash my hands before I put them in, not saying I didn't screw that up somehow.

I lost:
Blue Hippo
Yellow
Flame Angel
two Green Chromis

I still have:
Goby
one Green Chromis
One Cleaner Shrimp
7 Snails

So what can I do at this point as I have not a clue, just dumb founded.

I just checked all parameters

Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 30
PH 8.2

I don't believe a 30 nitrate would kill off that many fish, yes its high but I know some that have had 200-300 and fish survived.

Any ideas are welcome.

Currently have 30 gallons of water being prepared.

[usingthejohn]

Sorry. I reread and am a bit lost.

Was the tank running when you switched out all the dry rock?

Did you disrupt the sand bed (assuming you have sand?)

All I can really think of is some sort of ammonia spike. However I am unsure what may have caused it

[downbeach]

Any possibility of electrical problems?

[blanden.adam]

Im sorry to hear about your fish. Thats heartbreaking.

Its almost certainly not the nitrates. Did any of the fish show signs of disease? Were they swimming strangely or hovering near the top?

What is the temperature in the tank? Was there an on position heater failure?

Do you live alone or is there a possibility something inadvertantly was added to the tank? (Via a toddler or other mechanism)

Can you think of anything at all that has changed in the last week or so?

[Tazman282]

Sorry for the confusion, I at one time had the tank set up for five years, a little over a year ago I moved to Dubai which is where I reside now and set up the tank again.

I did not disrupt the sand bed at all but I did put a power head in the sump but the sump is only a little over a month old so I doubt there would be a lot of build up in that area that would have made anything spike to that extreme, I also use a filter sock which I clean out every two weeks.

Once I read about the Temperature and electrical I did have a heater break on me inside the sump but this was over a month ago when I was setting up the sump. I had the cabinet door open and one of my cats got tangled in the cord and when it scared him he took off and the heater started arcing inside the sump, I immediately uplugged the heater and the turned off the return pump and drained the entire sump as I was not sure if there was any fluid inside the heater etc. I contacted a local LFS and he said that in most heaters its just the heat unit etc and he would not suspect there would be any contaminants and to watch the tank closely for the next 24 hours to make sure. That was over a month ago and no issues.

Other then that issue there has been no other problems.

As far as all the fish are concerned they were very happy, eating and picking at the rocks etc.

I have the heater currently set in the always on position but set at about 78 and then when the Halides come on it goes up to about 82. I have yet to set it up with my reefkeeper as the local LFS only had 220 powered lights and my Reefkeeper is 110.

I can't think of anything or any way anything would have been added to the tank without me knowing. I can only think of the Scented Soap used when washing my hands as that is a new soap and I was in and out of the tank and sump doing some cleaning and getting all the power cords etc squared away. I personally think I am somehow the culprit but not sure how to rectify this situation. As of now roughly 7 hours later I have not had any other fish or inverts die.

Is there some sort of broad spectrum test to see if there is anything in the water?
Will a major water change even help if even some of the water is contaminated with something?

[usingthejohn]

A water change wouldn't hurt, as far as I know. However if there was a contaminant I would assume inverts would've been affected before the fish.

[saltyair]

So sorry for the losses.
A few things running carbon always a good thing imo.
did the fish die all at once over night? What did the carcase's look like? Could be a lack of oxygen- did you add more bacteria?

[kegogut]

How long ago did you get your fish? Have you recently added any livestock?
My tank ran at 40-50 trates for a year or more with no adeverse effects to the fish.

I would definitely run some carbon, it never hurts.

When I first started I added a keyhole angel that had some disease and it killed off 10 fish in the matter of a few days. All fish were acting normal until their demise.

Good luck and I hope you figure out the problem.

[capecodder]

I'm guessing this was sudden death of all the fish around the same time? Or was this over a period of time?

-Using RO/DI water? I would suspect contamination in your new source of water (since you moved).
-Or possibly temperature shock when changing the water?
-Did tool/equipment fall into your tank and rust, like a razor blade?
-Any work going on in your new place that would have fumes or dust?

[Tazman282]

The last two fish have been hiding all day but the one chromis did come out and it looks as if he is hyperventilating. Its weird that the cleaner shrimp is still good as I would assume he would be the first to go.

I do run RO/DI and everything is 0 and has been.

I run GFO/Carbon mix

I added a new light for the sump a few weeks ago when I purchased the cheeto.

I have not added any new fish in the past two weeks and all fish looked very healthy.

I noticed all fish swimming around late afternoon before I left and then when I came home all the lights were out and then when I woke up I found them dead.

I did have one other fish die three weeks ago, I am not sure why I didn't put this in my first post but I have been focusing on this issue. Maybe a correlation.

I have been checking the temperature all day and it has been fluctuating between 80 and 82 when MH's are on for a long time in the middle of the afternoon. I keep my apartment at 68-70 degrees all day, at times it feels as if it is getting warmer in the room for a while and then the AC kicks on.

There are no fumes or dust as far as I can tell that is unusual, I did smell a propane odor on my balcony but it was not in the apartment itself.

No rusting equipment at all.

What would constitute a temperature shock? a couple of degrees or something like much more?

Thank you all for all the posts, I am trying to be as complete as possible. It all just really sucks. I only lost two fish in Five years on my previous setup and now this. I guess live and learn but hopefully we can come up with the why as I have no idea.

[kegogut]

A temp swing of 2 degrees wouldn't constitute fish death.

[alb_56]

To me it sounds like electricity through the water. Maybe a pump surged and zapped them, just seems strange that so many fish died at once for an unknown reason. Do you have a voltmeter you can test the voltage in the water with?

[slief]

Did you change the surface agitation at all before the die off? Did anything in the sump get changed that could have impacted dissolved O2? You mentioned a skimmer change.. How recent was that?

The chromis breathing heavy along with the die off could point to hypoxia. Not enough oxygen will cause fish to breath heavily and ultimately kill them. When the dissolved O2 is low, fish usually tend to congregate at or near the surface but not always.. Also, ich can do the same as it attacks the gills and inhibits the fishes ability to get adequate O2.. That said, ich is something you most certainly would have noticed during the stage where the parasite is visible on the fish.


If it were me, I'd retest nitrates and ammonia with a fresh test kit. I'd do a good sized water change and I'd make extra sure that I was getting sufficient gas exchange to insure adequate dissolved O2. Even if it meant adding an air stone in the sump or pointing a power head towards the surface.

FWIW, a 2 degree temp change shouldn't cause this issue if it was gradual over the course of an hour or 2. If you did a big water change and dropped or raised the temp 2 degrees in a matter of minutes, that can cause issues but it will usually be proceeded by an ich outbreak.

All said and done, my first though is low O2 but that is just speculation without seeing your complete system...

[billsreef]

IMO, it's a disease issue. Quite likely Amyloodinium based on the sudden loss of several fish and the reported heavy breathing of the chromis you mention.

[bertoni]

I agree that disease is at the top of the list of suspects. Oxygen deprivation is another possibility, but it seems very unlikely given your description. Oxygen depletion would affect fish far more than the other animals in your tank.

[kegogut]

To me it sounds like electricity through the water. Maybe a pump surged and zapped them, just seems strange that so many fish died at once for an unknown reason. Do you have a voltmeter you can test the voltage in the water with?

voltage usually doesnt have any effect on fish because theyre not grounded. its like birds sitting on a power line.

[alb_56]

voltage usually doesnt have any effect on fish because theyre not grounded. its like birds sitting on a power line.

Just thought maybe if it was a quick strong zap or something.

[GainesvilleReef]

IMO, it's a disease issue. Quite likely Amyloodinium based on the sudden loss of several fish and the reported heavy breathing of the chromis you mention.

I agree. Sounds like what happened to my tank with velvet.

[GroktheCube]

I also agree with the disease assessment.

Heavy breathing and sudden die off of several fish a couple weeks after a new introduction/first death sounds like amyloodinium to me. Sometimes it never progresses to the point where fish look velvety before it kills them, and sometimes the velvety look is subtle.

Flukes are another possibility.

I assume you didn't QT anything?

Do you have a microscope? If you have another death, you could take a slide of gill tissue. Velvet is fairly easy to spot because it is dark colored, and flukes are obvious under even very low magnification.

If you can catch the chromis, it might be worth doing a freshwater dip. That will reveal flukes (they will be paralyzed and fall off), and provide temporary relief from velvet (kill any parasites in contact with FW).

If you do an FWD and see an improvement, but don't see flukes drop off, dollars to donuts it's velvet.

[kegogut]

I agree on the velvet,when I had a 10 fish death in a week thats what it was.

[Tazman282]

Thank you all for the responses, I have taken somewhat of a hiatus as I am still very frustrated.

I ended up losing my Goby the next day but I did manage to keep one fish alive, the chromis. I have set some traps and almost had him once but unless I take out all of the live rock there is no way I am going to give him a fresh water dip.

He is still alive and eating but seems to be breathing a little heavy.

All of the snails survived and so did the cleaner shrimp.

I tested the equipment and nothing out of the ordinary as far as voltage, there is definitely current in the water but from what I have read it is common. Should I invest in a grounding strip?

I am still at a loss for what happened other than your thoughts on Velvet. What do I do now as far as treating the one fish left and the tank before adding new fish. I have set up a quarantine tank as well for the future inhabitants.

Thanks again for all your reply's?

[pktech]

I lost all 4 of my fish about 9 mos ago within 48 hours of noticing they're condition. Like you, my snails & crabs & cleaner shrimp were cruising around. I've felt if my cleaner shrimp was dead there's a problem w/ my water & if the fish died, it's a problem of disease.
Sorry for your losses & good luck getting back into the hobby.

[bertoni]

I would add a titanium ground probe for safety, but I don't think it'll help for disease. Personally, I'd catch the fish, even if I had to take out the live rock, and treat it for disease. Otherwise, it might be a carrier.

[GainesvilleReef]

If you can catch him, treat him with cupramine in a hospital tank. Don't be surprised if it's too far gone when you catch him. Leave the tank fallow for at least two months. Velvet will die out without fish but the life cycle of the disease can be long. You do not have to bleach your tank.

[Tazman282]

I finally got the last fish out, after moving all the rocks around I can't seem to find the cleaner shrimp but all the snails are still going strong.

So at this point I have the last chromis in a QT tank and he is doing good, as far as spots on him, there are none. Here is also a pic of my goby that didn't make it.

As far as the tank, I only have liverock, sand, and the snails. Is there a faster method such as draining etc that would not have the tank sit for two months empty? Or would the parasites still be on the rocks and sand etc.

I am not gonna lie I am kinda thinking it may not be velvet even though it fits as there doesn't seem to be spots on the goby or on the Chromis.

Thanks for all the reply's

[billsreef]

As far as the tank, I only have liverock, sand, and the snails. Is there a faster method such as draining etc that would not have the tank sit for two months empty? Or would the parasites still be on the rocks and sand etc.

You'd have to leave things drained to the point of absolutely everything getting bone dry. Or sterilize everything with bleach. Generally better off just waiting instead of nuking everything. While waiting, you can set up a QT and get some new fish. By the time the tank is ready again, you'll have some properly QT'd fish to put in it ;)

I am not gonna lie I am kinda thinking it may not be velvet even though it fits as there doesn't seem to be spots on the goby or on the Chromis

Actually that lack of spots visual the human eye is very good reason to suspect velvet. Generally the time there are enough of the parasites for the unaided human eye to see the dusting that gives Amyloodinium the common name of velvet, it's too late. Amyloodinium does enough damage at it's attachment points that it can kill a fish at very low levels of infection. Makes it a hard parasite to diagnose for many, as rapid and large scale death occurs before most people see any signs of infection.

[GainesvilleReef]

Velvet is not always visible and get's in the gills. I would treat them with cupramine. Most of the fish that I had died with no visible signs. Also, some fish are able to live six months or more with the parasite. Those that can will infect and kill other fish.

Here is some more info on velvet.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388424


As for the tank, you would need to drain and bleach everything. Waiting two months is a lot easier. I used the time to redo my sump plumbing and modify the rock work.

[Gandolfe]

The only time I have ever lost more than 1 fish overnight was when I did a water change and forgot to turn my pumps back on...The fish died from low oxygen levels. Only other time I lose fish is old age or when new fish don't make it. But to me it sounds like low oxygen levels

[inetmug]

you mentioned a new light for the cheato, are you running that off-cycle?

http://www.reefcleaners.org/macroalgae-care