how far can you go with kalk in the make up water

[brad65ford]

Hey guys, just wondering how far you really can go with kalk in the make up water growing sps's only in a BB system. I'm starting to get very good coralline algae growth on the rocks and glass as well as seeing the sps's start to take off (yes finally). I've been mixing brs kalk in the make up water each week and so far its holding its own with DKH being 8.3 and CAL at 425. If the demand increases what can I do? Can i make the mix stronger or does it not work that way as the extra mix would just settle to the bottom of the holding tank?

Thanks,
Brad

[DDon]

Hey Brad,
You should be able to mix 2 tsps/gallon of top off water. That would give you a saturated solution. If you mix vinegar with the mix you can increase this concentration further. I believe up to 3 tsps/gallon (but don't quite me on that). Would need to research on the quantity of vinegar to do that.
I use kalk but also dose 2 part to maintain.

[drmrp17]

This is the main reason I finally switch to a calcium reactor. As your corals take off they will demand more and more. I was using so much powder that my calcium reactor is now saving me money and doing a better job than I was.

[brad65ford]

This is the main reason I finally switch to a calcium reactor. As your corals take off they will demand more and more. I was using so much powder that my calcium reactor is now saving me money and doing a better job than I was.

I totally hear you , my last system I switched to two part and it was a lot easier tuning cal/alk. But that's not the reason promise of the thread, was hoping to see some photos of others with some impressive success with just kalk

[Nano sapiens]

In an SPS dominated system using only Kalkwasser (no vinegar) the amount of SPS would need to be rather limited if they were decent sized, growing colonies. In a mixed reef 'topless' cube tank with ~30% SPS and a few LPS, I already use 85% saturated Kalk (mixed with 15% RO/DI).

It would be interesting to see some SPS dominated tanks that are getting by on just Kalkwasser alone.

[Epicreefer]

You will eventually need to run a two part system or a calcium reactor. You can probably get by manually dosing for a month or two, just test a few days in a row and do some math with the instructions or randy recipe. Adding vinegar to your kalkwasser won't help with alkalinity, the acid combines with base and you get CO2 and calcium acetate, so it can help with calcium but not alkalinity, and stable alk is much more important. For sps tanks you need to eventually go with and advanced system for adding alk and CA, in theory you coud run the tank hot and use evaporative cooling to evaporate more water and thus dose more kalk in the top off but kind of a backwards way of doing things and it can have bad effects on your salinity and temps if something goes wrong.

[Realposition]

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/88-tank-of-the-month

This is a kalk only sps dominant system
Not my tank

[Decadence]

My SPS display alone cannot sustain off of kalk because it does not have enough evaporation. I added two more tanks to the system (26x23x12 and 36x8x8) and then was able to sustain off of kalk due to the increased evaporation. My display grew out and I started stocking the other tanks and suddenly kalk was no longer enough so I'm splitting duties between kalk and a calcium reactor and using dosing pumps for fine tuning and magnesium, potassium and trace elements.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10639392_10154618529540595_248578344817504064_n.jpg?oh=8a4404e6e63c7fb4d8cd426888e98007&oe=545C0BDC&__gda__=1417608279_996bc82fba618f9c2c20858a590daae0

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1937475_10154618529570595_1105585223710381140_n.jpg?oh=ea323ae11ea786f1e8106ea9bd74a70e&oe=546399EE&__gda__=1415602878_30ce55524658d6bc7964c6552ff7980e

Just a word of advice… Don't use kalk directly controlled by your ATO. Use a separate jug and put a lot of kalk powder in it to saturate as much as possible. Dose this with a Tom's aqualifter or a dosing pump slowly throughout the day by controlling it with a digital timer or a reef controller. Doing it this way, you can actually tune your dosing and make it very stable. The best part is that when you have a leak or a skimmer overflow, etc… you don't poor three gallon of kalk into the tank and stress out all of your corals. When you have a tank with high demands, something stressing the corals actually causes them to stop growing and suddenly you will be dosing way too much cal/alk, stressing them even further.

[Decadence]

Some other pictures of the system.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10484923_10154618569810595_7061957964759739326_n.jpg?oh=ff1b8c62206110ad6ee8124bf2a05b18&oe=546638AB&__gda__=1417011918_2482bf4f967a40ab1cb2c18341b784f0

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10431455_10154618531280595_6273295682019594765_n.jpg?oh=8f830c2203fa8b54a587d30a8a3a12f2&oe=545BE3CB

This is the most up to date shot of the tank that I have but it is a few months old and a lot of growth has come since I took it. The top-down shots were from today.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10429319_10154609159145595_216121078812606032_n.jpg?oh=8e586d05fbff078c5a189ae9f710c875&oe=5478CDCA&__gda__=1415750048_12f7dcbe0828fa204523eb1513412df1

[AcroporAddict]

I have a BB 465 gallon SPS reef.

I run a kalk reactor that all my ATO water goes through. I also have a calcium reactor. The calcium reactor is where I make adjustments for any increases in calcium and bicarbonate demand required as the corals grow. Everything seems to stay in balance at a system KH of about 9.

[brad65ford]

Very impressive this is what I was after.. Its amazing to see what can be achieved with just kalk !!!

[drmrp17]

There are lots of people who have had great success with kalk and water changes. Biggest thing is that it takes a lot of monitoring. Eventually demand will get pretty high and kalk cost will become significant. Then I think the evaluation of ca reactor and kalk need to be evaluated on a cost basis.

[power boat jim]

Using just kalk in a fast growing system will not work over a long period of time, as others said its limited as to how much you can put back in and it is only part of the equation. The growing coral uses up magnesium and other elements as it grows. Kalk does not replace those. You will eventually need to do something in addition to the Kalk.

[AcroporAddict]

Using just kalk in a fast growing system will not work over a long period of time, as others said its limited as to how much you can put back in and it is only part of the equation. The growing coral uses up magnesium and other elements as it grows. Kalk does not replace those. You will eventually need to do something in addition to the Kalk.
Jim said it here. If you only use Kalk, you are providing only bicarbonate and calcium. Where is the magnesium coming from? Thing is to monitor your magnesium levels, and if your water changes are providing proper mag levels when you test, then no problem. Just be prepared to supplement magnesium if the numbers start decreasing. Hopefully, your water changes and food keep up your other traces.

[brad65ford]

+1 big water change guy personally, usually test 3 or 4 times a year for mag, its usually spot on in regards to the alk/cal.

[Decadence]

Jim said it here. If you only use Kalk, you are providing only bicarbonate and calcium. Where is the magnesium coming from? Thing is to monitor your magnesium levels, and if your water changes are providing proper mag levels when you test, then no problem. Just be prepared to supplement magnesium if the numbers start decreasing. Hopefully, your water changes and food keep up your other traces.

I have found that even with using a calcium reactor in addition to kalk, I still have to dose a lot of magnesium via dosing pumps because of the kalk, then again, I barely do water changes.

[brad65ford]

knock on wood I can't for the life of me understand it but my evaporation rate with the saturated lime water has been keeping my alk/cal dead nuts. Can't complain running 8.4 on alk and 440 cal for the last month all while my sps's are growing well, mind you its a small system (30g total). I know i'm going to have to switch to two part soon just afraid of over doing it. Really need to know how much alk/cal i'm using in a day i guess.

[AcroporAddict]

knock on wood I can't for the life of me understand it but my evaporation rate with the saturated lime water has been keeping my alk/cal dead nuts. Can't complain running 8.4 on alk and 440 cal for the last month all while my sps's are growing well, mind you its a small system (30g total). I know i'm going to have to switch to two part soon just afraid of over doing it. Really need to know how much alk/cal i'm using in a day i guess.

How is your magnesium level doing?

[brad65ford]

just checked my mag at the end of the day its at 1400 so I guess the water changes are enough right now.

[Decadence]

just checked my mag at the end of the day its at 1400 so I guess the water changes are enough right now.

Most of the salt mixes have very high mag because they don't really expect the average aquarist to dose it. For that matter, they have pretty high calcium and alkalinity levels too…… It makes it kind of tough for someone like me to do a water change because I keep everything close to natural levels. I'll have automatic small daily water changes set up soon and am curious to see what this does to my mag and calcium levels.

[brad65ford]

correct, gave up on the standard RC / IO since the alk/cal were very high. Switch to regular red sea (not the pro) and couldn't be happier with the alk/cal/mag at 1.26 salinity

[AcroporAddict]

just checked my mag at the end of the day its at 1400 so I guess the water changes are enough right now.

1400 is fine. I used to chase mag at 1350, and dosed Randy's 2 part to get it right at 1350, when all the while my mag seems to settle naturally at 1300. But why bother? Per Randy's articles, anywhere from 1270-1350 is perfectly fine, and a bit higher is no problem either. Now, I would only dose if magnesium went below 1270.

[brad65ford]

What I'm trying to understand now is how much do you really need to saturate the water. Meaning once it starts settling on the bottom of the container that means you have maxed out the concentration of the mix, right?

[Piper27]

Yes, adding vinegar is a way to increase the saturation point.

[brad65ford]

Yes, adding vinegar is a way to increase the saturation point.

Really.. do tell, is there an amount / formula I should follow?

[Piper27]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/#

[brad65ford]

damn good read a little old but still a good one. Think i have read this article at least 3 or 4 times by now. Funny you don't hear many people running just kalk any more, its all 2 part or reactors with kalk.