Plumbing Setup for 250g Tank (Diagram)

[gueretma]

Hi,

Looking for some help.. I recently purchased a Marineland 250 DD tank/ stand. I am planning on putting a sump below in the stand. I created a diagram to show what im planning for my plumbing.

I will be running a Chiller/ GFO/ Carbon/ Bio Pellet. I have not planned for a UV based on mixed opinions..

Protein Skimmer, Heaters will go in the Sump.

Please give me feedback. What am I not thinking about?
I want to be able to control he flow on each piece of equipment as well as isolate it.

[Whystler]

With that setup the water will flow the path of least resistance and you will have almost no flow thru your GFO, Carbon, and bio pellets.

If you are going to use your return pump to force water thru the reactors you need to have valves positioned to force thru each reactor and then some to bypass each reactor.

I highly recommend not running the reactors in series with the return. Run them each in their own series with the correct size pump individually and dumping back into your sump.

For example place small pumps for each reactor in the return section of sump and then place the returns for each reactor back into the drain section of the sump.

My experience is this is the easiest method and works well for isolating and servicing each unit separately. Plus any issues with any reactors do not interfere with sump flow. Also if sump flow stops but the reactors continue they will just keep flowing the same water in a circle.

[RocketEngineer]

1) Ditch the check valve. The biology within the tank will grow inside it which means it will fail when needed no matter how often you clean it.
2) If you are going to run the reactors off the return pump, do so with a manifold and plumb them back to the sump. There is no reason to have them go all the way back to the display. Use gate valves or needle valves instead of ball valves as they provided more exacting control. A ball valve is really only good for on/off.
3) Living in Canada, I highly doubt you need a chiller.

[gueretma]

1) Ditch the check valve. The biology within the tank will grow inside it which means it will fail when needed no matter how often you clean it.
2) If you are going to run the reactors off the return pump, do so with a manifold and plumb them back to the sump. There is no reason to have them go all the way back to the display. Use gate valves or needle valves instead of ball valves as they provided more exacting control. A ball valve is really only good for on/off.
3) Living in Canada, I highly doubt you need a chiller.


Thanks for the responses..

I've decided to move the sump to the basement giving me more room to play. I want a very clean and professional look. I am now researching into using the gate valves instead of ball valves for better control of flow rates through my chiller/ reactors.. Also looking at install GPH meters.

Now that I want to plumb my Display Tank into the basement. It has 2 overflow lines and 2 return lines. Any issues combing both overflow lines into 1 and only having to drill 1 hole through the floor for each the overflow and return??

I'm unsure if its 1" overflow lines, but basically using a Tee and going from 2x 1" lines to a 2" line? would it be noisy?

fyi.. its quite humid/ hot here in southern ontario.. the chiller is good insurance.

[thegrun]

I don't see many advantages to a GPH meter, but it would be more of a maintenance problem. Go with a single return line and tee it at the tank, but keep two separate drain lines for added protection from a flood.

[gueretma]

updated diagram.. just thought it would be cool to see the gph, plus it might help dial in on some of the reactors..

[gueretma]

I have added a few things.

- Syphon Hose to Waste Line
- Holding Tank for Salt Water
- Holding Tank for RODI Water
- Internal Pump to take RODI water to Salt Water Mixing Tank
- Auto Topoff line coming from RODI Water Holding Tank.


please comment.

[Sethjamto]

Personally I'd ditch the check valve (not needed if your returns are near the top of the waterline to break suction), and also beef that return pump up to at least double the output. 1200gph isn't enough once you add the head height (which I'm assuming will be about 5-6 feet or more) and the manifold. You won't get much flow out of your returns. It's better to go big on the return and dial it down some if the flow is too much.


EDIT:

Actually I just realized that your sump is one floor lower than the DT. 1200gph won't even make it to the next floor. Unless its a much larger pump and you are saying 1200gph is the reduced flow after head loss.

[Sethjamto]

As for the drains: I run a dual Herbie on mine and have (2) 1.5" lines tee into a 2" line with a gate valve to control the overflow levels. It works, but I lost the ability to individually control each overflow. One overflow is slightly lower than the other even though the tank is perfectly level. I can't fix it with the gate valve because it'll make the right side overflow too high and end up flowing too much water down the emergency drain. I'm going to get rid of the tee and go with (2) 1.5" gate valves. This will reduce the waterfall effect in the left overflow and make it nearly dead silent.

As for the return.....yes you can run a single line through the floor from the return pump and then tee it at the tank.

[JoelA7]

Ok. Comments above that are valuable and correct have not been incorporated. You would be well advised to run the GFO and carbon separately. You can do this with 2 small pumps in the sump or another smaller external pump with a T to split the flow. If you do the latter then you need ball valves or gate valves prior to each reactor to regulate the flow without creating back pressure on the reactor. Take water from the return chamber to the reactors and the outflow goes back into the first chamber where your tank water drains.

Next your drains. Suggest using a Herbie system. A 1.5" drain with a gate valve to regulate flow so it's full, pure siphon, will give you more flow than you'll need. Probably could use but you'll need to check flow rate maximums and I don't recall. Second drain is a durso for backup. Whether single or double return is up to you.

[gueretma]

Ok. Comments above that are valuable and correct have not been incorporated. You would be well advised to run the GFO and carbon separately. You can do this with 2 small pumps in the sump or another smaller external pump with a T to split the flow. If you do the latter then you need ball valves or gate valves prior to each reactor to regulate the flow without creating back pressure on the reactor. Take water from the return chamber to the reactors and the outflow goes back into the first chamber where your tank water drains.

Next your drains. Suggest using a Herbie system. A 1.5" drain with a gate valve to regulate flow so it's full, pure siphon, will give you more flow than you'll need. Probably could use but you'll need to check flow rate maximums and I don't recall. Second drain is a durso for backup. Whether single or double return is up to you.


Thanks again for the responses..

Can you elaborate on why you would run GFO and carbon separately when I can use the gate valves to control precisely the flow through them aswell as flow around them at the same time.

[RocketEngineer]

There is no reason to run them off a separate pump if you control flow through them with a gate valve. However, being in the basement you have a different problem running them off the return pump.

Consider the following: At 15' of head the static water pressure is going to be about 7 psi. You're pump is going to have to push against that much back pressure just to keep water in the vertical pipe. That means you're reactors will all be under at least that much pressure. Depending on which ones you use, that could be an issue.

I still say that you should empty everything located in the basement back into the sump instead of having to push that flow up 15 vertical feet. Having two pumps would be easier to implement because one would be a high pressure pump to push water back to the display while the other smaller pump just runs the reactors and the chiller off a manifold.

[Shawn O]

Running them separately will allow you to keep the pump pressure the same at each reactor when you shut one down. Check out the modified diagram attached, note changes made to plumbing.

[JoelA7]

Agree with above two posts. Your main circulation pump for that head height should be a strong external pump. A beast. Maybe a DC pump like a Waveline 12000 would be a good call. Adjusting it and the gate valve on your Herbie drain separately will result in no bubbles and very very consistent performance as there will not be variable back pressure.

Then using a second pump with your valves in front of your reactors (that's where you really need unions too, so you can take one off line without water everywhere etc.) which have variable back pressure as the media slowly changes thus changing the flow rate, this will not effect the tuning of your drain.

My tank - Waveline 6000 return, Eheim Compact+2 for GFO and Carbon, both external, and one little PH in the sump for CA reactor.

Good luck!

[gueretma]

Made some changes to the diagram.. Autotop off will work from gravity with a water level autoshutoff.. 1/4" line.

at this stage of the game i am also thinking of putting in in motorized gate valves... might be a crazy idea though :)

i still would like some comments on any issues you see with the updated diagram..

[Cymonous]

I agree on the above for NO check valves. If your check valve fails with loss of power, it will siphon a ton of water back into your sump and you will have a flood.

I would not have a bypass around your chiller. Just go straight through it. The chiller cannot do its job if it is bypassed.

[gueretma]

How do I prevent a syphon without the checkvalves. The bypass around the chiller allows me to remove the chiller if I need to and keep the system running.

[RocketEngineer]

Do you need the chiller?

You prevent a siphon by placing the outlet openings close to the surface of the tank.

You don't need gate valves after the reactors, just before. Union both sides works. Also, I think you have them backwards, one pump running all and separate drains would work better.

Looking good so far.

[JoelA7]

+1 to above. This is the failsafe way. Your outlet to the tank is at the top ONLY so when the water level goes down the siphon is broken. All you need to do is have it high enough so the sump can hold the water.

[gueretma]

I did the reactors as [shawn o] from above mocked up my older diagram. He had it pump water out of the 3rd bay of the sump thru the reactors all on there own pump to the first bay. I figured it was to get rid of bubbles.


So are you saying 1 pump from the middle sump area go to all reactors using a manifold then drain out individually from each reactor into the 3rd bay of the sump?

[RocketEngineer]

I would go the direction you have it, from 3rd bay to 1st, just rework the inlets to a manifold and outlets to be individuals. You honestly only need the one pump if it has enough capacity to run all 3. Most decent submersible pumps would do that job just fine. Combining the drains doesn't gain you anything and in any case you want the biopellet reactor outlet right at the skimmer inlet.

[gueretma]

i added the bio-pellet reactor to feed the external protein skimmer with the ability to bypass either one for maintenance.

thoughts?

[Shawn O]

Removed extraneous plumbing from reactors. Each reactor doesn't need it's own drain pipe to the sump. Let gravity be your friend.