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theblennyman
09/06/2014, 05:36 PM
went for a three hour mountain bike ride and came home to a 104 degree aquarium with all the livestock dead! my heaters are finnex controlled by apex and cobalt as backup. was it the cobalt that malfunctioned?

drew2007
09/06/2014, 06:39 PM
Shouldn't your controller have shut the heater off?

bobbravo2
09/07/2014, 03:43 PM
Shouldn't your controller have shut the heater off?


My question exactly. I'm guessing a programming error? If temp > 78 heater ON?

zoomonster
09/07/2014, 03:59 PM
Sorry to hear that but its all too common. REDUNDANCY for critical systems! Never trust a heater direct to Apex or a heater with just its own controller. I'm using a single 800w titanium heater with its own controller plugged into Apex so I have two levels of safety.

I've seen plenty of cases of Apex power bar outlets failing in the ON position.

bobbravo2
09/07/2014, 04:00 PM
Sorry to hear that but its all too common. REDUNDANCY for critical systems! Never trust a heater direct to Apex or a heater with just its own controller. I'm using a single 800w titanium heater with its own controller plugged into Apex so I have two levels of safety.


Very good point. I've got a similar set up. Cobalt heater set to max 82, apex set to seasonal heating.

Mark Bianco
09/07/2014, 06:46 PM
My question exactly. I'm guessing a programming error? If temp > 78 heater ON?

What are your other codes?

Here is mine.

(Heater)
Fallback ON I also have a separate controller
Set OFF
If Temp < 78 Then ON Turns on anything below 78 degrees.
If Temp > 80 Then OFF Turns it off.
If temp < 60 Then OFF This I use just in case the temp probe fails

Please list you entire heater code, I am curious. " I'm guessing a programming error? If temp > 78 " This is telling the Apex to turn on above 78 degrees...

bobbravo2
09/07/2014, 07:10 PM
What are your other codes?

Here is mine.

(Heater)
Fallback ON I also have a separate controller
Set OFF
If Temp < 78 Then ON Turns on anything below 78 degrees.
If Temp > 80 Then OFF Turns it off.
If temp < 60 Then OFF This I use just in case the temp probe fails

Please list you entire heater code, I am curious. " I'm guessing a programming error? If temp > 78 " This is telling the Apex to turn on above 78 degrees...

It was just a stab in the dark - I always double & triple check my less than & greater than statements - I've been known to flip them ;-)

Looks like your code was good. Looks like only a few things could have happened:

Heater Controller Failed, and APEX lost DC connection, resulting in fallback ON
APEX Lost Connection / Messed up & Heater Controller Failed
Any other possible failure scenarios?


Do you have your APEX's output log? That'll at least tell us when the heater was turned on.

Again - my condolences for your loss

Mark Bianco
09/07/2014, 07:17 PM
I have never had a malfunction with the Apex 2 plus years Knock on wood! I guess we both thought that the other was the original poster LOL

myram
09/08/2014, 09:50 AM
What size is your system that it could be at 104 in 3 hours of time?

The Apex should have turned off all heaters if it's setup right.

bobbravo2
09/08/2014, 01:45 PM
I have never had a malfunction with the Apex 2 plus years Knock on wood! I guess we both thought that the other was the original poster LOL

HAHAH! Totally missed that :wave:

@OP - any updates?

theblennyman
09/08/2014, 08:32 PM
when i looked at the apex it was 76 on and 78 off and fallback in off position. the cobalt was directly plugged on the computer battery backup. our electricity has been going on and off from the electrical storm. anyway it's a 50 gallon tank with oversized heaters. tank has been with me since december 2013. never a malfunction with apex. even went on a vacation without any problem.

theblennyman
09/08/2014, 08:33 PM
with everything dead i'm still waiting on maybe it would cycle again.

theblennyman
09/08/2014, 08:38 PM
zoomonster i like your level of protection.

theblennyman
09/08/2014, 08:40 PM
It was just a stab in the dark - I always double & triple check my less than & greater than statements - I've been known to flip them ;-)

Looks like your code was good. Looks like only a few things could have happened:

Heater Controller Failed, and APEX lost DC connection, resulting in fallback ON
APEX Lost Connection / Messed up & Heater Controller Failed
Any other possible failure scenarios?


Do you have your APEX's output log? That'll at least tell us when the heater was turned on.

Again - my condolences for your loss

mine is the same setting except and on is 76 and off is 78.

kurt_n
09/08/2014, 10:01 PM
when i looked at the apex it was 76 on and 78 off and fallback in off position. the cobalt was directly plugged on the computer battery backup. our electricity has been going on and off from the electrical storm. ...

So Finnex controlled by Apex, and Cobalt controlled by it's own thermostat plugged into a battery backup?

If that's the case, I'd guess that the Finnex/Apex combo was fine and the Cobalt and the battery backup didn't play well when the power was switching back and forth on the UPS. In my experience, resistance loads (like a heater) really don't like UPS and vice versa. Have you checked to see if all the heaters are working correctly? I'm thinking the Cobalt might now be permanently stuck in the 'on' position.

Even if it is the Cobalt, I'm surprised the UPS had enough power to run the heater long enough to get to that temp.

theblennyman
09/09/2014, 05:48 PM
So Finnex controlled by Apex, and Cobalt controlled by it's own thermostat plugged into a battery backup?

If that's the case, I'd guess that the Finnex/Apex combo was fine and the Cobalt and the battery backup didn't play well when the power was switching back and forth on the UPS. In my experience, resistance loads (like a heater) really don't like UPS and vice versa. Have you checked to see if all the heaters are working correctly? I'm thinking the Cobalt might now be permanently stuck in the 'on' position.

Even if it is the Cobalt, I'm surprised the UPS had enough power to run the heater long enough to get to that temp.


not sure yet which one is working right. I'm just so disappointed right now that I don't have the drive to work on it. but I agree with you that it was probably the cobalt coz the programming on the apex was not really changed.

theblennyman
09/09/2014, 05:52 PM
anyway what do you guys use for a backup power? my vortex has it's own. the rest is on a PC battery backup.

bobbravo2
09/09/2014, 06:36 PM
I use a Back ups PRO, running everything. Key is to make sure the UPS has a pure sine wave output.