Caulerpa is fuge: Good or Bad

[Dally69]

Hello, I'm starting up my in sump refugium within the next couple of day and I was going to put Chaeto in there and maybe a mangrove and be done with it but my buddy said he's getting some Feather Caulerpa and he would give me some. Before I introduce anything in my tank research the hell out of it. I've read that it can be dangerous and take over the display but I haven't seen anyone have problem with it. I just want to know if y'all think I should be okay using Caulerpa in my Refugium or if I should stick to Cheato

[swk]

I use some caulerpa prolifica along with chaeto and byrothamnion sp in my fuge. Having a variety is nice. The caulerpa will grow before the chaeto in my system

Haven't kept that caulerpa sp. I think it's taxofolia or something? Some types can be quite invasive I've heard, including this type

[JasonD]

I have caulerpa in my flow through scrubber and love it, helps keep the nitrates down IMO, a Ndian I think some animals do better with it in the system

[hllywd]

Personally, I'd keep it out of any new system I put together at all costs. Pic to follow...

[Dally69]

How do I keep it from going sexual, what should my lighting schedule be and how often should I prune it?

[zachts]

I would only use the cheato, none of the issues of caulerpa and just as effective for nutrient removal. Caulerpa can be a noxious weed under the right conditions and once it takes hold in your display (it will get up there eventually) it is impossible to completely rid the tank of it.

[inktomi]

A lot of people use caulerpa in their fuges. I'd never willingly put it into my tank - I've been battling it for years!

[hllywd]

http://youtu.be/QcyFhlzipJc

Why I would avoid it like the plague it is...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do I keep it from going sexual, what should my lighting schedule be and how often should I prune it?



IMO, that is not the concern. I've kept Caulerpa racemosa in my system for 15 years and that has rarely happened and was never a problem when it did (with the C. racemosa peltata variety, the normal grape kind never has).

What does happen is that it gets into the display and cannot be eradicated, even with a total tank breakdown and rock scrubbing (I know, I tried).

I resorted to a one spot foxface to eliminate it from the display, and now I can routinely move it there as fish food and that works great. So I now grow a lot of it and think it very useful in my system, but only with the foxface on patrol.

IME, Caulerpa is more effective than chaeto, but carries the big risk of becoming a pest in the display.

[JasonD]

What randy said more efficient then chaeto and I do have a fox face and yellow tang that keep any stray caulerpa under control.

[JasonD]

http://youtu.be/QcyFhlzipJc

Why I would avoid it like the plague it is...

Dude out a tang or foxface in there ASAP

[hllywd]

There is a purple, a yellow, and a hippo in the display. For a long time, years, the caulerpa was close cropped in a small coral. Several months ago it exploded. I had some DIY LEDs on the tank I built about 4 years ago and even switched back to 3x 400W MHs to see what might happen. The answer was very little over about 3 months or so. Just installed the Kessils yesterday, and I wonder if I might be able to blue it out and still keep my corals happy... I feed very little, Rod's frozen and nori. GFO, BRS Rox carbon. Lots of chaeto in the sump with a 24 on light cycle, water changes... I've wondered about a foxface, and had a sail fin at one time that just murdered the caulerpa, I couldn't keep it then!

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I think I'm doing everything right and can't fix the issue. I would avoid intentionally introducing it given the choice again!

[hllywd]

How do I keep it from going sexual, what should my lighting schedule be and how often should I prune it?



IMO, that is not the concern. I've kept Caulerpa racemosa in my system for 15 years and that has rarely happened and was never a problem when it did (with the C. racemosa peltata variety, the normal grape kind never has).

What does happen is that it gets into the display and cannot be eradicated, even with a total tank breakdown and rock scrubbing (I know, I tried).

I resorted to a one spot foxface to eliminate it from the display, and now I can routinely move it there as fish food and that works great. So I now grow a lot of it and think it very useful in my system, but only with the foxface on patrol.

IME, Caulerpa is more effective than chaeto, but carries the big risk of becoming a pest in the display.

How big was the tank you controlled it in? I've got no problem adding a foxface... Especially if he'd eat his way through my shrooms too! What about a different variety like a magnificent? I'm almost to the point of getting new rock and starting over.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My tank with the Caulerpa/foxface is a 120. It doesn't eat any of my mushrooms.

I'm not sure what other fish might work. :)

My yellow tang eats it, but was not ever able to keep it under control alone.

[hllywd]

I'll rip all of it out I can again, and give a foxface a try before I start over. Thx

[running scott]

I've had cualerpa in my sump refugium for about twelve years. I don't know how I don't have any in my DT and other people do? Maybe it's the foam cover over my return pump intake? Or maybe my yellow tang, and blue hippo tang?

[inktomi]

There are many different species and I bet some are more aggressive than others at spreading. You're lucky!

[zachts]

tangs and fox face can be picky at what type algae one individual eats compared to another, I had a heck of a bloom of C. verticilata that came out of no where, literally carpeted my tank and corals. I bought a yellow tang which didn't eat it, then a fox face which didn't eat it and it took starving my poor tang and fox face for almost 3 months (makeing sure they got some food but barely enough) before they gave in and started eating it. They wouldn't touch the stuff as long as I was feeding nori and other foods. Once they got hungry enough it was nearly gone within a week but is still visible in the cracks and crevices and in the substrate and if I feed too much now for the other fish or coral it starts to bloom again. So I'm now stuck with running an ultra low nutrient system or ELSE! It was quite beautiful and I got more compliments on the darn algea than my corals that I was trying to fill the tank with.

Keep the caulerpa far, away from your tanks!

[hllywd]

Years ago I had fish that would rip it up when I could get it. Couldn't grow it to save my life back then... I think this came in on a coral I got at a swap probably 4 or 5 years, and a different tank ago. I always thought I was imagining the ticking coming from the tank back then!

[ReeFreak1]

Hi all,

I put a Caulerpa in my fuge a three weeks ago and it started melting slowly. Now there is nothing left of it. I know it is supposed to be hardy, but I need to know the reasons for its meltdown. Anybody with experience or info about this case?

[slief]

How big was the tank you controlled it in? I've got no problem adding a foxface... Especially if he'd eat his way through my shrooms too! What about a different variety like a magnificent? I'm almost to the point of getting new rock and starting over.

I've got a foxface in my tank and a ton of mushrooms and he never touches them or any other corals. Foxface's are generally model citizens in reefs..

Hi all,

I put a Caulerpa in my fuge a three weeks ago and it started melting slowly. Now there is nothing left of it. I know it is supposed to be hardy, but I need to know the reasons for its meltdown. Anybody with experience or info about this case?

Could be lighting or a lack of nutrients. What kind of lighting do you have over your Caulerpa? How old is your tank? If it's a new build, you likely don't have the nutrients to feed it.

[ReeFreak1]

25 Gallon Fuge with 10W LED running round the clock. The tank is 2 years old , but the fuge is only a couple of months old.

[ReeFreak1]

I've got a foxface in my tank and a ton of mushrooms and he never touches them or any other corals. Foxface's are generally model citizens in reefs..



Could be lighting or a lack of nutrients. What kind of lighting do you have over your Caulerpa? How old is your tank? If it's a new build, you likely don't have the nutrients to feed it.

What do you mean by lack of nutrients? If you are talking about Nitrates, I have very high Nitrates, which I am trying to control.

[zachts]

A sudden change in water parameters, temp, or light shock, can make them melt, especially when just dumped into a fuge or tank. Algea needs acclimated like everything else.

If there's a few little hold fasts left in there it may eventually come back. doesn't take much which is why it can become a nuisance.

[ReeFreak1]

A sudden change in water parameters, temp, or light shock, can make them melt, especially when just dumped into a fuge or tank. Algea needs acclimated like everything else.

If there's a few little hold fasts left in there it may eventually come back. doesn't take much which is why it can become a nuisance.

I did just dump it in the tank after I did temp acclimation. Does it also need to have drip acclimation as well? That does sound too extreme to me.

[zachts]

I drip acclimate everything, some organisms are more temperamental than others, but a little patients never hurts. There's really no good way to know exactly what the water parameters were that it came from short of testing the water. Caulerpa is particularly temperamental in my experience with it, I've had it melt just moving it from the display into the sump. Only thing I can put my finger on there is the sudden change in light levels and possibly damage from handling. I've never seen a good write up on exactly what sets it off for sure.

For that reason it's not my favorite for nutrient removal, a turf scrubber or cheato is more stable and predictable, but caulerpa is a neat macro in its own right.

[ReeFreak1]

A sudden change in water parameters, temp, or light shock, can make them melt, especially when just dumped into a fuge or tank. Algea needs acclimated like everything else.

If there's a few little hold fasts left in there it may eventually come back. doesn't take much which is why it can become a nuisance.

Unfortunately, there is nothing left of it at all:mad:

[ReeFreak1]

I drip acclimate everything, some organisms are more temperamental than others, but a little patients never hurts. There's really no good way to know exactly what the water parameters were that it came from short of testing the water. Caulerpa is particularly temperamental in my experience with it, I've had it melt just moving it from the display into the sump. Only thing I can put my finger on there is the sudden change in light levels and possibly damage from handling. I've never seen a good write up on exactly what sets it off for sure.

For that reason it's not my favorite for nutrient removal, a turf scrubber or cheato is more stable and predictable, but caulerpa is a neat macro in its own right.

Thanks for the info. I did not realize it was that picky! Bummer! Do you think Chaeto would be as good and fast as a turf scrubber?

[zachts]

Thanks for the info. I did not realize it was that picky! Bummer! Do you think Chaeto would be as good and fast as a turf scrubber?

It's easier IMO and just as effective as using caulerpa far as I can tell.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Chaeto is a fine way to go, but IME, caulerpa racemosa can outcompete chaeto, which indicates it may be more effective at removing nutrients than is chaeto. :)

[ReeFreak1]

Chaeto is a fine way to go, but IME, caulerpa racemosa can outcompete chaeto, which indicates it may be more effective at removing nutrients than is chaeto. :)

Do you think I should try another round of Caulerpa or do you think it's going to melt away again?

[Reefvet]

Chaeto is a fine way to go, but IME, caulerpa racemosa can outcompete chaeto, which indicates it may be more effective at removing nutrients than is chaeto. :)

I've had c. racemosa in a couple of tanks for the last decade. No measurable phosphates or nitrates, tanks won't support Chaeto but the caulerpa grows prolifically. I tear out handfuls every couple of weeks or it'll get out of control. Great export system in my opinion.

High levels of Mag suppress it.

[ReeFreak1]

Thanks you all for the feedback. I read that it gets poisonous once groomed. Did you experience such a thing? Also, can you feed what you cut to tangs or is that toxic too? Do you keep the lights on 24/7 so it doesn't get sexual is it OK with say 16 hours of light a day? It is my first and I am going to give it a second chance. :inlove:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've never experienced any apparent problems from Caulerpa racemosa except the potentially terrible problem of it getting established in the display tank.

I think it might be worth trying chaeto again, and maybe acclimate it if the salinity it comes from is very different (although I have rinsed it in tap water to remove cyano and/or flat worms in the past).

[Reefvet]

I read that it gets poisonous once groomed. Did you experience such a thing? Also, can you feed what you cut to tangs or is that toxic too?

Huh ? You might want to check that.

Most Caulerpa species evolved in tropical waters, where herbivores have immunity to toxic compounds within the alga. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulerpa)

Caulerpa has been consumed raw in salads, cooked and in desserts. The most commonly eaten species is C. racemosa, which has a pleasant, slightly peppery taste. It’s quite popular in Hawaii and in the Philippines. (http://www.eattheweeds.com/caulerpa-warm-water-salad-and-pest-2/)

[ReeFreak1]

Thank you all for the input. I will give it another shot. :uzi:

[ReeFreak1]

I had a mild ICH infestation, which I think was due to the introduction of Caulerpa last time. Is there anything I can do to clean the newly acquired Caulerpa up from possible parasites or hitchhikers?

[slief]

I had a mild ICH infestation, which I think was due to the introduction of Caulerpa last time. Is there anything I can do to clean the newly acquired Caulerpa up from possible parasites or hitchhikers?

Rest assured, you did not get ich from the caulerpa.. It's remotely possible that there was some ich in the water that the caulerpa was transported in but it's extremely remote that your fish's outbreak was the result of it being introduced via the algae. Ich typically needs a host (fish) to survive on. It goes through stages. Once it separates from the host to it's free floating stage, it typically will end up in the substrate where it will eventually die if it doesn't find another host to attach to.

While its possible that some was introduced via the caulerpa, the liklihood is that one or more of your fish already had ich in their system. Just because it carries the parasite, doesn't mean it's going to be visible. All it takes is a bit of stress to cause an outbreak. I know you had a hippo tang and they are one of the few fish I will not keep because of their susceptibility to ich. IMO, they are what I refer to as carriers and if there is any stress in the tank or fast temp change, they will be the first fish to break out.

If you are really concerned about introducing it, you can rinse the macro algae in fresh salt water before putting the algae in your tank. That said, if you haven't put your all fish through proper QT and treatment process (copper, tank transfer or hypo salinity) and run your tank without any fish in it for several weeks or more, you will still have ich present in your tank and all it will take is a bit of stress or a fast temp swing for it to rear it's ugly head.

[ReeFreak1]

Rest assured, you did not get ich from the caulerpa.. It's remotely possible that there was some ich in the water that the caulerpa was transported in but it's extremely remote that your fish's outbreak was the result of it being introduced via the algae. Ich typically needs a host (fish) to survive on. It goes through stages. Once it separates from the host to it's free floating stage, it typically will end up in the substrate where it will eventually die if it doesn't find another host to attach to.

While its possible that some was introduced via the caulerpa, the liklihood is that one or more of your fish already had ich in their system. Just because it carries the parasite, doesn't mean it's going to be visible. All it takes is a bit of stress to cause an outbreak. I know you had a hippo tang and they are one of the few fish I will not keep because of their susceptibility to ich. IMO, they are what I refer to as carriers and if there is any stress in the tank or fast temp change, they will be the first fish to break out.

If you are really concerned about introducing it, you can rinse the macro algae in fresh salt water before putting the algae in your tank. That said, if you haven't put your all fish through proper QT and treatment process (copper, tank transfer or hypo salinity) and run your tank without any fish in it for several weeks or more, you will still have ich present in your tank and all it will take is a bit of stress or a fast temp swing for it to rear it's ugly head.

Absolutely fantastic response Sleif. I still have a question though. When Ich is in Tomont stage, where it would form a membrane and attache itself to substrate for 3 to 28 days waiting to hatch. What prevents Tomonts from attaching to algai or any other surface?

[slief]

Absolutely fantastic response Sleif. I still have a question though. When Ich is in Tomont stage, where it would form a membrane and attache itself to substrate for 3 to 28 days waiting to hatch. What prevents Tomonts from attaching to algai or any other surface?

I guess it can attach to the rock in the Tomont stage. I'm not aware of it attaching to the macro algae.. If you are really concerned, QT your macro in a separate system.

Personally, I don't QT my fish and I don't QT corals or algae. Some of my fish come from a QT'd system at my buddy Jims house but very often I get them straight from the wholesalers. In the last 25 years, I've only had 1 ich outbreak which was a major one. It was the result of a big fast temp swing due to a large water change with much cooler water. Completely avoidable but i was dependant on somebody else for my water at the time and made the mistake of not verifying the temp at the time we did the change. A powder blue tang broke out first and then all hell broke loose. Eventually the it ran it's cycle killing a lot of my fish. I couldn't catch the fish due to my tank size and rock layout and I couldn't treat the tank with copper or hypo due to the corals. That was 4 years ago and I haven't seen a sign of it since. I also won't keep Hippo's or powder blue tangs and probably never will. If you have a hippo, plan on more ich unless you have properly treated your fish and system. Hopefully the ich outbreaks are minor and don't ravage your tank.

[ReeFreak1]

I have already received the new Caulerpa and had it in a separate QT already. I was just hoping to find a quick way of clearing it up from parasites without going through the 28-day QT. Can't jump up too high even if I wanted to! I know for sure that it came out of an Ich infested QT at a LFS, which was offered free of charge. I don't want to take chances. I can live without a Hippo Tang, but my main problem is I love PBT even if it was the only fish I have!

BTW, did your PBT ever make it through your last Ich outbreak?

[slief]

BTW, did your PBT ever make it through your last Ich outbreak?

Nope..

It always troubles me as I would love to have another. They are beautiful fish and one of my favorite tangs. I just can't bring myself to take a chance with one again and trust me, every time I see one, I am tempted to pull the trigger. Fortunately my healthy fish population isn't worth the risk despite the fact that I have no ich issues what so ever.

[ReeFreak1]

After a few days of introducing the new cualerpa to my refugium, it melted away completely for the second time. I did a 25% WC prior to its introduction to the sump. It flourished in the first few days, then within the last 36 hours, it started shrinking until nothing is left of it.

[MorganAtlanta]

I've had the same happen with several cualerpas-- couple days it's fine, then it turns white and melts in the matter of 24 hours. However, c. prolifera is growing well for me and has a nice turtle grass sort of look.

[ReeFreak1]

I've had the same happen with several cualerpas-- couple days it's fine, then it turns white and melts in the matter of 24 hours. However, c. prolifera is growing well for me and has a nice turtle grass sort of look.

Ya mine turned white too I forgot to mention that.

[kenneth wolfe]

from my experience most melts come from light acclimation where they thrive on 24/7 its hard on them to get there.. Mostly from light burn..start your light higher , and 12/12 then lower the light after its growing good , up the light schedule and move the lights in closer until the tips start to burn..and shazam there it goes..Cheto seems to take more lighting sooner..other strains have different schedules but they all like it slow low light at first..

[ReeFreak1]

Thanks Kenneth. This means I'm ready for round three. I will try and let you know what happens