Help! My powder blue tang has a bubble in one eye!

[ReeFreak1]

Hi all. I am new to RC, but I have been doing a lot of reading in the past and found very informative and helpful posts. I hope someone could help me with my situation.

Anyway, I purchased a powder blue tang a month ago and it was in bad shape. I was willing to put tremendous effort to save the poor thing. It was very skinny, hid all the time, and barely ate. I battled skin flukes, Gill flukes, Fin and tail rot, and mouth deterioration in a QT tank with hypo setup. I won the battle rounds so far and got the fish pretty healthy. However, a week ago, after a FW bath, she appeared to be extra stressed and appeared to be blind for a couple of hours. The sight came back, but I noticed what appears to be an air bubble in one eye. This bubble has been growing steadily since that time. The cornea sticks out about an eighth of an inch now. Her eyeball is clear and in place and the bubble is just beneath the cornea forming a cone shape. She doesn't seem to be bothered by it, though I don't think she can see well in it. I don't know if this is Popeye, but I used Epsom salt today hoping the bubble would vanish.

Any information or suggestions on this case would be highly appreciated.

[Apotack]

I had a raccoon butterfly that had an eye problem that left it blind in one eye. Didn't bother the fish at all, lived like that for many years.

[ReeFreak1]

Thanks for the feedback Apotack. I read it is not life threatening. I still hope to be able to cure it though. It looks like a clear balloon attached to the eye. The eye ball is intact but the cornea is inflated. It might be a water bubble not air as I stated earlier. I can't tell. Epsom salt doesn't seem to change anything so far.

I have been raising salinity to get out of hypo for a week now. Could this be a reason?

I'm going to try and post pics.

[ReeFreak1]

Hopefully these photos are clear enough.

[Apotack]

Hard to tell from the pics. Is he eating and behaving normally?

[john08007]

Far from an expert but I would think if its swimming around normal and eating then it would be fine. I would think any attempt to fix it could cause more harm, you've already nursed it back from where it was, more than wouldve happened in the wild.

[ReeFreak1]

Loves eating Hikari seaweed extreme wafer and Hikari marine A pallet Apotack although Ammonia is creeping up on me now.

[ReeFreak1]

Good point john08007 you are absolutely right. I read threads suggesting to pop the bubble out with a syringe, but it doesn't sound kosher to me! Other than that it's very calm and eats well. No sign of stress. That took a lot of work and dedication.

[ReeFreak1]

The salinity stands at 1.023 now and I'm worried about putting it in DT. I had an ick attack a few months back, which I got under control. There are still very small traces of it creeping every now and then. My fish are immuned to it though but definitely not the pbt. Any ideas?

[ReeFreak1]

I have an idea but would like to get some opinions on it. I would like to circulate the water between my quarantine tank and sump. I will use a UV sterilizer to pump from sump to QT. The water will overflow from QT back to the sump. This way I get rid of the Ammonia battle in the QT and keep the fish long enough in there for the eye problem to cure. This would also prevents the pbt from getting infected with my DT ick. what do you all think?

[ReeFreak1]

Sorry about the pics Apotack. I hope these are more clear.

[Apotack]

Uv won't catch everything. I wouldn't suggest mixing QT water with display water. If you are ready to put him in the DT you could drip acclimate over an hour or two to bring salinity to where it belongs. If not I'd do a water change in the QT to bring the ammonia down

[kelrn98]

how do you plan to manage ich once the fish makes it to your DT if your DT is already infected with ich?

[slief]

First off, do not pop the bubble!

I have an Atllantic Tang that developed a similar issue. With good feeding and a bit of time, it should go away on it's own. In my tangs case, it got a case of pop eye after what I think was contact with my Fox Face. The pop eye went away on it's own and shortly after a bubble appeared in one of its eyes. After a couple weeks, the bubble disappeared.

Another cause of the appearene of bubbles in the eye is known as Gas Bubble Disease. While it's not what I consider a disease, it's reffered to it as such. It's typically caused by super saturation of oxygen or nitrogen in the water which then result in super saturated levels of oxygen or nitrogen in the fish. A rapid temp change or even salinity change can cause the O2 or No2 to expand resulting in the air bubbles in the eye and or under the skin. It's most likely that this was brought on by the fresh water dip but more likely as a result of your hyposality transition or both. Any changes to salinity should be done very very slowly over the course of several days if not more.

That said, it should go away on it's own and if this is the only symtom your fish has, just keep it well fed. While I didn't QT my tang, if you have a QT tank, it certainly wouldn't harm anything as long as the temp and salinity match so you don't stress it anymore. This condition isn't contagious so from that aspect you really have nothing to worry about.

Here is a bit more info on GBD as it pertained to a more severe case.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/8/fish

[ReeFreak1]

I thought UV sterilizer kills all forms of life. I must have been wrong Adam.

Mark

[ReeFreak1]

I already have 10 fishes which are pretty much immuned to ick Kelly. The only exception I have is with a Hippo Tang, which survived huge waves of ick I had in the past. There are small traces showing every now and then on the HT only. They go away after that. With that said, do you think pbt would be OK in DT? I'm consumed from nursing the pbt and I don't have enough energy to quarantine 10 other fishes for 8 weeks. I also have many invertebrates in my FOWLR setup.

[slief]

I already have 10 fishes which are pretty much immuned to ick Kelly. The only exception I have is with a Hippo Tang, which survived huge waves of ick I had in the past. There are small traces showing every now and then on the HT only. They go away after that. With that said, do you think pbt would be OK in DT? I'm consumed from nursing the pbt and I don't have enough energy to quarantine 10 other fishes for 8 weeks. I also have many invertebrates in my FOWLR setup.

Powder blues are very sensitive to ich and a little bit of stress coupled with the presence of ich in your display could be all it takes to infect the PBT.. That could have a snowball effect on your other fish too. Sadly, that is the risk you take with hippo's and PBT's as well as certain other tangs that are more sensitive to ich.

That said, your 10 fish are not immune to ich. Just because they haven't broken out in it doesn't mean they are immune. A high level of stress and or a sudden change in water temps is all it will take for them to break out in it. Especially if you have a fish in the tank such as your hippo that is a known carrier. Just be aware. Been there done that. For me, I avoid Hippo's and powder blues like the plague. Hippos especially. The one and only ich outbreak I had was caused by a powder blue and I lost a lot of fish as a result. Fish that I had for over 10 years perished as a result. Prior to that, I avoided hippo's for the very same reason.

[ReeFreak1]

First off, do not pop the bubble!

I have an Atllantic Tang that developed a similar issue. With good feeding and a bit of time, it should go away on it's own. In my tangs case, it got a case of pop eye after what I think was contact with my Fox Face. The pop eye went away on it's own and shortly after a bubble appeared in one of its eyes. After a couple weeks, the bubble disappeared.

Another cause of the appearene of bubbles in the eye is known as Gas Bubble Disease. While it's not what I consider a disease, it's reffered to it as such. It's typically caused by super saturation of oxygen or nitrogen in the water which then result in super saturated levels of oxygen or nitrogen in the fish. A rapid temp change or even salinity change can cause the O2 or No2 to expand resulting in the air bubbles in the eye and or under the skin. It's most likely that this was brought on by the fresh water dip but more likely as a result of your hyposality transition or both. Any changes to salinity should be done very very slowly over the course of several days if not more.

That said, it should go away on it's own and if this is the only symtom your fish has, just keep it well fed. While I didn't QT my tang, if you have a QT tank, it certainly wouldn't harm anything as long as the temp and salinity match so you don't stress it anymore. This condition isn't contagious so from that aspect you really have nothing to worry about.

Here is a bit more info on GBD as it pertained to a more severe case.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/8/fish

Wow. This is exactly it. You are amazing!

[slief]

Wow. This is exactly it. You are amazing!

Glad to help! :beer:

[ReeFreak1]

Powder blues are very sensitive to ich and a little bit of stress coupled with the presence of ich in your display could be all it takes to infect the PBT.. That could have a snowball effect on your other fish too. Sadly, that is the risk you take with hippo's and PBT's as well as certain other tangs that are more sensitive to ich.

That said, your 10 fish are not immune to ich. Just because they haven't broken out in it doesn't mean they are immune. A high level of stress and or a sudden change in water temps is all it will take for them to break out in it. Especially if you have a fish in the tank such as your hippo that is a known carrier. Just be aware. Been there done that. For me, I avoid Hippo's and powder blues like the plague. Hippos especially. The one and only ich outbreak I had was caused by a powder blue and I lost a lot of fish as a result. Fish that I had for over 10 years perished as a result. Prior to that, I avoided hippo's for the very same reason.

Good info Slief. You must be an expert!

[ReeFreak1]

Have anyone else ever used Aqua Pharm Pro Series Cure Ich? It is DT safe, but does it solve my ick problem? It was recommended today by my LFS. I bought it but don't intend to use it unless I get some positive remarks. Otherwise, I'll take it back.

[slief]

Good info Slief. You must be an expert!

I've been in the hobby for about 27 years now and learned of lot of lessons over that time. Fortunately, I've only had a couple major issues during that time. While I am not bummed about not keeping hippo's the powder blues are one that I really like but because of their sensitivity to ich, I've avoided them since my last ich outbreak 4 years ago. When it happened, I had a really healthy and thriving reef with 40+ fish in my 500 gallon display. I did a major water change of about 100 gallons and forgot to check the water temps of my new water. More over, I forgot to heat it. The water change resulted in 4-5 degree temp drop over the course of about 30 minutes. A few days later the powder blue broke out in a bad case of ich. Within a day or two of that, one fish after the other broke out. Given the size of my display and the amount rock in it, capturing and QT'ing fish was not an option. My only option was to use reef safe ich remedies, lowered salinity (I couldn't go hypo because of my coral), increased water temp, garlic supplement, UV sterilization on very slow flow, increased O2 into the water, etc. Nothing helped. In the end, I lost 60-70% of my livestock which was heartbreaking. Especially because some of those fish were with me for several years and many of them were regular breeders.

The lessons I took away from it were as follows. First and foremost, be very cognizant of the water temps when you do a major water change.. It's well known that rapid temp changes are most often the root cause for ich outbreaks. Avoid certain tangs. While that isn't a concrete way in avoiding ich, certain tangs like hippos and powder blue and powder brown tangs seem to be more susceptible to breaking in ich. With those species, it doesn't take much. Even a little stress caused by an aggressive fish can trigger it.

Many here say that with proper QT'ing and a fallow tank, ich can be avoided 100%. I'm not a believer in that theory. In my opinion, even it that were possible, with corals coming into our tanks, live rock etc, eventually ich will be introduced into the water. That's not to say the fish will break out in it but it's presence is almost a certainty at some point regardless of it being visible. The key in my book to avoiding breakouts is avoiding temp changes, not introducing fish that are prone to breaking out and keeping stress levels down in the tank. The latter can only be done by not overstocking a tank, not keeping too large of a fish in a display that isn't appropriately sized and not introducing aggressive fish or at least removing any aggressive fish.

Like I said, I've been keeping salt water fish for 27 years now. In the last 20 or so years since I got my 500 gallon display, I've only had 1 ich outbreak and that one was completely avoidable. I never went fallow after that outbreak and I began restocking my fish within 4 weeks of the last signs of ich on the remaining fish. I was careful as to which fish were introduced first and made sure to avoid certain varieties. It's been four years since then. Now I have upwards of 70 fish in my display and I've never had a reoccurrence and I don't plan to either. But it kills me because I really love powder blues and it's terribly difficult for me not to tempt fate.

[slief]

Have anyone else ever used Aqua Pharm Pro Series Cure Ich? It is DT safe, but does it solve my ick problem? It was recommended today by my LFS. I bought it but don't intend to use it unless I get some positive remarks. Otherwise, I'll take it back.

If you want to cure ich, get yourself some cupramine and a copper test kit and treat your QT tank with the fish in it. I suggest using Seachem product for that. Follow their directions to the T. If you want to deviate, than start with a half dose followed by a full dose. That is the one and only proven cure/treatment for ich in my experience. It is not reef safe and there are absolutely no reef safe ich cures. Not Kick Ich, not Medic, not Aquapharm Pro or anything else. Not even UV as that will only eradicate ich in it's free floating stage that makes it through the UV before it settles into the substrate which will not be all the ich in the tank.

The other methods that can be effective such as tank transfer method has proven effective for many as has hypo salinity. While many like the tank transfer method, I feel that 100% water changes let alone moving a fish from tank to tank can also be stressful on the fish so take that with a grain of salt. Hypo works as well but changing salinity needs to be a very gradual thing and it's a very slow process. Copper on the other hand works great and relatively quickly but certain fish like some butterfly's can be sensitive to it. This is one reason why I would work the doses up to therapeutic levels gradually by starting with a half dose. The key is having a copper test kit at your disposal as you need to reach therapeutic levels and you don't want to exceed those levels.

[slief]

Have anyone else ever used Aqua Pharm Pro Series Cure Ich? It is DT safe, but does it solve my ick problem? It was recommended today by my LFS. I bought it but don't intend to use it unless I get some positive remarks. Otherwise, I'll take it back.

FWIW, a quick google search yields nothing positive on any forums about that stuff. I wouldn't waste any time with it and wouldn't risk using it.

[Apotack]

I thought UV sterilizer kills all forms of life. I must have been wrong Adam.

Mark

It's not 100% but it can help.

[Mike Ordner]

It's not 100% but it can help.

UV can kill anything if it is high enough intensity. However, many people use units that are not very strong. Also, only water that passes through the unit gets zapped, so not all the water is treated. Also, the glass in the chamber has to been cleaned often, or the kill rate will go down quickly. So, yes, UV is a good sterilizer, but in reef tanks it works better for water clarity (kills algae) than to kill parasites.

[ReeFreak1]

Oh my! I can't imagine the agony you went through during the time of ick attack Slief. That was nothing less than a disaster and I feel for you. You stated Very good comment about keeping ICK under control and I really appreciate your effort. I believe you are right about the uncommon information.

One of these comments is avoiding Hippos and Powder Blues, but this is my dilemma. I have had the Hippo for a year and half and it has grown from an inch and half to over four inches and it is healthy. Not only am I attached to it, but also I have no chance of selling both tangs because that contradicts with my LFS policy. So now I am stuck and must find a way out.

[ReeFreak1]

I have done an intensive reading on a thread stating the use of Ginger to cure ICK with success.

It states this as a magical solution and I am willing to give it a try. I have a wave of minor ICK with the Hippo right now and I am hoping this would make a change. From what I understand, Ginger makes fish resistive to ICK even though it is present in thank. You never know. Also someone cured Popeye with Ginger so I am going to try it on both DT and QT, I will keep everyone posted.

Oh I almost forgot! I am definitely taking back the Aquapharm Cure ICK medication.

Mark

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181818&perpage=25&highlight=ginger&pagenumber=1.

[ReeFreak1]

UV can kill anything if it is high enough intensity. However, many people use units that are not very strong. Also, only water that passes through the unit gets zapped, so not all the water is treated. Also, the glass in the chamber has to been cleaned often, or the kill rate will go down quickly. So, yes, UV is a good sterilizer, but in reef tanks it works better for water clarity (kills algae) than to kill parasites.

Thanks for the info Mike.

I always wondered! Is there a formula relating UV intensity to water flow rate? This means, how many liters/hour should the flow rate be through the UV sterilizer for each Watt of power for optimal sterilization? So if the UV sterilizer is 13 Watts, What would be the maximum flow rate for successful sterilization? Wow, I asked the same question three times!!! Hope this doesn't bother anyone. :rollface:

[Nina51]

this as a magical solution

yeah, good luck with that. don't you think that, if ginger was the almighty cure for ich, it would be shouted from the rooftops of every hobbyist on the planet?

if it sounds too good to be true.....

[slief]

yeah, good luck with that. don't you think that, if ginger was the almighty cure for ich, it would be shouted from the rooftops of every hobbyist on the planet?

if it sounds too good to be true.....

+1.. There are no magical cures. Pop Eye also almost always cures itself so that is nothing more than a coincidence.

Ginger on the other hand shouldn't hurt anything so it's worth trying but minor cases of ich tend to go away on their own with certain fish so keep than in mind if you get any positive results.

[ReeFreak1]

I hear you Nina. It does sound too good to be true! Though I'm desperate and willing to try any unproven remedy, it really doesn't hurt to try Ginger. I've had great success with home-made Garlic extract to boost immunity, even better than the factory-made ones. I have already used Ginger once today and will continue for the next few days. I want to unravel the hidden truth about Ginger and I will post my test results regardless of the outcome.

Mark

[ReeFreak1]

+1.. There are no magical cures. Pop Eye also almost always cures itself so that is nothing more than a coincidence.

Ginger on the other hand shouldn't hurt anything so it's worth trying but minor cases of ich tend to go away on their own with certain fish so keep than in mind if you get any positive results.

Update: the powder blue tang eye bubble seems to have improved a bit. Hold Your Horses. I noticed that prior to the Ginger feeding so it can't get the credit for the improvement. It could have been the Epsom salt or it could have just started to cure on its own as Slief predicted before.

So I will continue the Ginger in the DT and let everyone know. I understand that I can't say that Ginger would be the real reason for any success, but if it does cure the Hippo and then I add the PBT to the DT and get no ICK outbreak, then I can conclude that it did actually work. Don't you think?

Mark

[ReeFreak1]

Powder Blue Tang right eye bubble improved and Hippo Tang with Minor ICK outbreak

[ReeFreak1]

Just a quick update everyone.

The powder blue tang eye bubble remains the same not better or worse. I will let time deal with it as Slief suggested. It is still in quarantine tank.

The hippo tang ick still did not go away but I noticed no more new spots appearing. This means that with time ick will disappear hopefully. I will continue with Ginger feeding as planned. I never seen my hippo ick free. There was always a couple of spots here and there and sometimes it will be infested with a couple of dozens.

On a side note: my hippo is a weirdo. It likes to eat small chunks of Ginger!

[ReeFreak1]

Hi all. Another quick update. Eye is getting better but there is a clear small bubble inside there. Ich still persists so ginger did not help. I read about CP (Chloroquine Phosphate)and how it is suitable to fish only tanks. Does anybody have experience with it?

[slief]

Hi all. Another quick update. Eye is getting better but there is a clear small bubble inside there. Ich still persists so ginger did not help. I read about CP (Chloroquine Phosphate)and how it is suitable to fish only tanks. Does anybody have experience with it?

Glad to hear the bubble is getting better. The small clear bubble will go away on its own too. It's just a bi-product of the initial bubble and the result of the remaining gas. It may take a week or two to completely clear up and it may even come back for a short while after that but with time, good feeding and minimal stress, it will go away on it's own completely.

Can't help you with the Chloroquine.. Copper is the best proven solution for ich that I know works with great success. Of course that requires QT..

[ReeFreak1]

Thanks Slief. Do you think the sight will be affected in this eye after the bubble has gone?

[slief]

Thanks Slief. Do you think the sight will be affected in this eye after the bubble has gone?

The sight should not be effected.. This assuming that the rest of the cornea or eye is clear.

[ReeFreak1]

Thanks for the info Slief.:celeb3:

[ReeFreak1]

The sight should not be effected.. This assuming that the rest of the cornea or eye is clear.

Good news:dance:the bubble had completely went away. I am still a bit worried because the eye is still cloudy. Do you think that the cloudiness will go away? Also there is a small dot in the center of the good eye. Do you think this is a start of another pop-eye?

[slief]

Good news:dance:the bubble had completely went away. I am still a bit worried because the eye is still cloudy. Do you think that the cloudiness will go away? Also there is a small dot in the center of the good eye. Do you think this is a start of another pop-eye?

No telling on either account. The cloudiness should go away on it's own. Their could be a bubble forming in the other eye as the gases may not have left the fishes body completely yet and the eye is the easiest place for the bubbles to form. Just be patient.

[ReeFreak1]

No telling on either account. The cloudiness should go away on it's own. Their could be a bubble forming in the other eye as the gases may not have left the fishes body completely yet and the eye is the easiest place for the bubbles to form. Just be patient.

Patience is a virtue. Thanx.

[ReeFreak1]

No telling on either account. The cloudiness should go away on it's own. Their could be a bubble forming in the other eye as the gases may not have left the fishes body completely yet and the eye is the easiest place for the bubbles to form. Just be patient.

You were absolutely right Slief. Wow; everything you said was entirely correct. The second eye formed another gas bubble. I think part of it is my fault. The white dot in the center of the eye extended like a white thread about 2mm out. I did a FW dip for fear it was flukes again. Well, it remained so it was not flukes. The next day, the bubble formed and it is steadily growing. Of course my fresh water was overly saturated with oxygen, which could have contributed to the problem. Bummer! :headwally:

Are PBTs sensitive to FW dips???

[Subsea]

For Ich cure in an established reef tank, Paul B and I have the same attitude. Provide a healthy enviroment and encourage a good slime coat to optomize the fishes immune system. Garlic should encourage appetite. Feed your tank inhabitants differrent healthy foods. Neither Paul nor I quarantine. Last Christmas, I got my second ich outbreak in 45 years on a newly introduced Hippo Tang. I used garlic to encourage appetite and added Prime to encourage slime coat. I also added a 70W UV sterilizer to the 75G tank which has been set up for 12 years. I can assure you that any ich that went thru that sterilizer was dead when it came out. However, the life cycle of the ich parasite has several stages that does not include free swimming in the water column. When the parasite is imbedded in the fishes slime coat it is immune to treatment, including cooper. Also, when the parasite leaves its host, it can lay dormat in its cocoon for quite some time. Most literature says 28-56 days. I disagree with this. My first ich outbreak was in a large system that saw no introduction of inhabitants for 18 months. Following a power loss that stressed the system, ich was every where.

Recently on this forum, Paul B wrote a thread on healthy slime coat and fish immune system. Feed your fish a healthy varied diet including as much live food as possible.
Good luck with your ich.
Patrick

[DamonG]

Do you have the link to his article? I would love to read it?

[Subsea]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2448010

Paul and I have been reefing for the same amount of time. Both of us starting after returning from the Vietnam War in 1970. Paul got my attention when he put obvious ich infested fish into his 100G established reef tank with the subsecant cure of the ich on the infected fish.
Patrick

[ReeFreak1]

For Ich cure in an established reef tank, Paul B and I have the same attitude. Provide a healthy enviroment and encourage a good slime coat to optomize the fishes immune system. Garlic should encourage appetite. Feed your tank inhabitants differrent healthy foods. Neither Paul nor I quarantine. Last Christmas, I got my second ich outbreak in 45 years on a newly introduced Hippo Tang. I used garlic to encourage appetite and added Prime to encourage slime coat. I also added a 70W UV sterilizer to the 75G tank which has been set up for 12 years. I can assure you that any ich that went thru that sterilizer was dead when it came out. However, the life cycle of the ich parasite has several stages that does not include free swimming in the water column. When the parasite is imbedded in the fishes slime coat it is immune to treatment, including cooper. Also, when the parasite leaves its host, it can lay dormat in its cocoon for quite some time. Most literature says 28-56 days. I disagree with this. My first ich outbreak was in a large system that saw no introduction of inhabitants for 18 months. Following a power loss that stressed the system, ich was every where.

Recently on this forum, Paul B wrote a thread on healthy slime coat and fish immune system. Feed your fish a healthy varied diet including as much live food as possible.
Good luck with your ich.
Patrick

I totally agree to that. I have been using Garlic for a few months and Ginger extracts for three weeks now. My fish's appetite has been very good, but I think ich was intensified lately upon the introduction of a Caulerpa in the sump a month ago. Oops, I woke up the sleeping giant! There has been no sign of ich for the past 3 days so hope it stays that way. Its too soon to say ich is over yet, but I have to say that I have witnessed great improvement in using both homemade Garlic and Ginger extracts over using Garlic alone in my constant battle against ich. Will keep you updated.

On a side note: I am amazed that you used a 70W UV for 75 G tank, which is over sized IMO. Do you think that 70 W UV has advantage over using a 10W for the same size tank?

[Subsea]

My mistake. The sterilizer was 40W. The only issue with such a large sterilizer was added heat to the water. For certain, free swimming ich that went thru the sterilizer were killed. You could not be assured of that with a 10W sterilizer unless you slowed the flow down a lot. The price per watt of the 40W sterilizer in 1/3 of the cost of the 10W unit. I left the sterilizer on the tank for 6 months before I removed it this past August. It certainly kept the water sparkling clear.
I am presently experimenting with using it in conjunction with skimmerless operation and carbon dosing on a 135G sumpless lagoon setup. A pHd micro biologist friend tells me that the UV will rupture bacteria membrance and turn the available bacteria nutrients into gumbo for the tank filter feeders. I have been doing this for a little over a month now with an abundent increase of micro feather duster and spaghetti worms.
Patrick

[ReeFreak1]

My mistake. The sterilizer was 40W. The only issue with such a large sterilizer was added heat to the water. For certain, free swimming ich that went thru the sterilizer were killed. You could not be assured of that with a 10W sterilizer unless you slowed the flow down a lot. The price per watt of the 40W sterilizer in 1/3 of the cost of the 10W unit. I left the sterilizer on the tank for 6 months before I removed it this past August. It certainly kept the water sparkling clear.
I am presently experimenting with using it in conjunction with skimmerless operation and carbon dosing on a 135G sumpless lagoon setup. A pHd micro biologist friend tells me that the UV will rupture bacteria membrance and turn the available bacteria nutrients into gumbo for the tank filter feeders. I have been doing this for a little over a month now with an abundent increase of micro feather duster and spaghetti worms.
Patrick


Interesting experiment.:bounce1: What do you use as a carbon source and what is your current Nitrate level? Did your nitrate change up or down during the past month?

[slief]

You were absolutely right Slief. Wow; everything you said was entirely correct. The second eye formed another gas bubble. I think part of it is my fault. The white dot in the center of the eye extended like a white thread about 2mm out. I did a FW dip for fear it was flukes again. Well, it remained so it was not flukes. The next day, the bubble formed and it is steadily growing. Of course my fresh water was overly saturated with oxygen, which could have contributed to the problem. Bummer! :headwally:

Are PBTs sensitive to FW dips???

If you keep messing with this fish, you will kill it from the stress. Stop with the dips and everything else because at this point you are doing nothing but stressing this fish out. Just let it heal on it's own. By the way, the sudden salinity changes are doing nothing but making it's eyes worse as that is one of the causes of GBD. I think I mentioned that previously.

FWIW, garlic and ginger do NOTHING for ich. What you read in that ginger thread is nothing more than coincidence and assumptions. Ich has been around for as long as people have been keeping fish and there are only a few proven methods for resolving it. Garlic and ginger are not among those methods. It may give you piece of mind but too much garlic can be harmful to the fish although when used with moderation it may be an appetite stimulant and feeding may help the fish fight off the parasite. Hippo's are notorious for carrying ich. They are also fairly tolerant of it. It will come and go like the tides on them and a little bit of stress or a temp swing is all it takes for them to break out. I won't keep hippos in my tank because of that regardless of the QT procedure. They may be tolerant of ich but the rest of the tanks inhabitants aren't necessarily.

[Subsea]

Interesting experiment.:bounce1: What do you use as a carbon source and what is your current Nitrate level? Did your nitrate change up or down during the past month?

With respect to your fish situation, you should chill out and let nature take its course. Of course fresh water dips stress fish. Stress weakens fish immune systems and weakened immune systems bring on ich.

The carbon dosing and skimmerless thread is on this forum. My carbon source is 5% vinegar. I am not carbon dosing to lower nitrate or phosphate, which are undetectable. I am carbon dosing to increase productivity in a reef tank. Everything on planet Earth is carbon based. Acetic acid is a clean source of carbon compared to feeding the tank heavily.
Patrick

[neonpoke]

I've been in the hobby for about 27 years now and learned of lot of lessons over that time...

Well put, Slief. A lot of my friends that have been in the hobby for years have expressed the same opinion on Ich.

[ReeFreak1]

If you keep messing with this fish, you will kill it from the stress. Stop with the dips and everything else because at this point you are doing nothing but stressing this fish out. Just let it heal on it's own. By the way, the sudden salinity changes are doing nothing but making it's eyes worse as that is one of the causes of GBD. I think I mentioned that previously.

FWIW, garlic and ginger do NOTHING for ich. What you read in that ginger thread is nothing more than coincidence and assumptions. Ich has been around for as long as people have been keeping fish and there are only a few proven methods for resolving it. Garlic and ginger are not among those methods. It may give you piece of mind but too much garlic can be harmful to the fish although when used with moderation it may be an appetite stimulant and feeding may help the fish fight off the parasite. Hippo's are notorious for carrying ich. They are also fairly tolerant of it. It will come and go like the tides on them and a little bit of stress or a temp swing is all it takes for them to break out. I won't keep hippos in my tank because of that regardless of the QT procedure. They may be tolerant of ich but the rest of the tanks inhabitants aren't necessarily.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Today, however, both fish eyes have recovered from bubble disease. There is still a bit of cloudiness in the recently affected eye, but it is recovering nicely. The fish is very healthy and show no signs of disease. With the help of everyone in this thread, I did a wonderful job saving this fish, which was not going to make it based on it's initial health condition and the many diseases it encountered. So many thanks everyone. I will try to post a video later. I am still keeping it in the QT as I don't dare risking adding it to the DT with the hippo in it. I'm thinking about upgrading to a larger tank.

[ReeFreak1]

With respect to your fish situation, you should chill out and let nature take its course. Of course fresh water dips stress fish. Stress weakens fish immune systems and weakened immune systems bring on ich.

The carbon dosing and skimmerless thread is on this forum. My carbon source is 5% vinegar. I am not carbon dosing to lower nitrate or phosphate, which are undetectable. I am carbon dosing to increase productivity in a reef tank. Everything on planet Earth is carbon based. Acetic acid is a clean source of carbon compared to feeding the tank heavily.
Patrick

couldn't agree more Subsea. Interesting thread.

[ReeFreak1]

All right all. All is well with the powder blue tang now. It is in perfect condition. It is still in my QT tank as I am afraid to move it to the DT for fear of Ich. I don't know what to do yet. Ich is controlled with the Hippo Tang, but I think if I add the PBT to DT, it would be overwhelming and the Ich would spread uncontrollably as there would be two sensitive fishes in the DT. I had a heck of a time with the PBT, but to me it is well worth it! I posted a short video as an update.:bounce3:

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag450/Muhanad_Samman/Mobile%20Uploads/th_1416274635_zpsc78d46d6.mp4 (http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag450/Muhanad_Samman/Mobile%20Uploads/1416274635_zpsc78d46d6.mp4)

[Paul B]

Patrick, first of all, Welcome home Brother

Paul and I have been reefing for the same amount of time. Both of us starting after returning from the Vietnam War in 1970. Paul got my attention when he put obvious ich infested fish into his 100G established reef tank with the subsecant cure of the ich on the infected fish.
Patrick

How did I get involved in an Ich thread? I don't do ich threads as I swore off them along with a few other topics because I am often mis quoted, mis understood, mis diagnosed, and mis interpreted. But never mis leading, mis taken, missing, or called Miss. as that would be a mistimenor :fun5:

[ReeFreak1]

Lol. That's really funny.