New custom DSA starphire tank ~ 450g

[ekovalsky]

This will be replacing my current 233g A.G.E. tank which has served me very well since 2007. It will be going in the front of a home theater. Room will be set up for high end 2-channel audio listening with reef visible, or 7-ch home theater with drop down screen concealing the tank. All equipment will be going in the stand below the display tank; there is access to back of the tank via an exterior bathroom that I gutted into a fish room :)

Tank is being built by Deep Sea Aquatics (I'm following Tom Hudson who used to be at A.G.E.) and will be mostly similar in construction to my current tank he made, just deeper and a bit taller with PVC bottom and starphire glass front. Also my current tank has an acrylic perimeter brace which I think is no longer offered, although mine has not had issues.

I have a maximum ~ 48" usable depth for adequate clearance in the fish room behind the tank, and am opting for an internal overflow to keep things as neat as possible and minimize external plumbing; if I went with an external overflow, I would have had to drop the tank depth to 42" - so I'm not really losing any space in the display itself.

All the equipment will be going underneath the tank, in the stand. I have been trying to get a quote for a custom ECO Dreambox sump system but that doesn't seem to be happening. Fortunately I can probably get something similar, with English fittings, made locally. I was willing to spend big bucks on a BK Super Marine 250 and RD3 pumps but based on some of the recent customer service issues, I'm thinking I'm better offer with cheaper Chinese or American made stuff that I can easily swap in the event of a failure.

Tank will be drilled for closed loop with four 1" returns and two 1-1/2" drains, using a Reeflo Dart pump, which will insure flow around the aquascape elements. The rear coast-to-coast style overflow will have three 1-1/2" drains used in the "Bean Animal" configuration with left side emergency draining leading to the pump compartment of the sump, high flow siphon drain leading to the filtration/skimmer compartment of the sump, and low flow standpipe feeding a refugium for pods, as I plan on keeping mandarins and leopard wrasses. I will only turn over the display tank volume 3-4x per hour as I want this to be a quiet setup. I'm not sure yet if I will use a traditional internal skimmer or do a hybrid setup with a more efficient recirculating pump operating inside the sump (which obviously would have to utilize a submersible pump), gravity fed via the siphon. The latter scenario would preclude use of pre-sump mechanical filtration i.e . socks but I have mixed feelings about them anyway, as they will be a nuisance in terms of maintenance. I've operating my current setup without any such mechanical filtration without any issues. I am trying to minimize all external plumbing, hence not interested in a conventional external skimmer arrangement, also they tend to be too tall and I only will have about 32" clearance under the tank. There will be two 1" return lines plumbed through the overflow. Additional circulation in the display tank will be delivered by a pair of MP60s.

I am opting for LED lighting this time around in part because I live in Arizona, and my electric bills are already quite high in the summer. At this point I am considering primarily Radion G3 Pro versus GHL Mitra 6200. The Orphek Atlantik V2.1 is tempting too with its larger coverage but a little hesitant to go there.

Here is the tank diagram that is about to be approved. If anyone sees anything amiss please let me know ASAP!

I will be working on the final sump design this weekend which will be designed and built similar to the Royal-Exclusiv ECO Dreambox with first compartment accommodating filter socks (may or may not be used), second filtration compartment protein skimmer and internally plumbed biopellet and carbon media reactors, and final pump compartment. Refugium will be separate from the sump.

My installer seems keen on UV but if I do anything along those lines, I will probably add an ozone reactor. I learned my lesson first time, and will be using quarantine tanks for all new fish and coral additions!

[Newbie Aquarist]

Nice design concept. What protein skimmer you plan on using?

[Oldcabin]

Very cool concept. How will you be handling the tank lighting in the event you're in movie 7 channel mode? Are you concerned about tank light penetrating through the screen from behind? Will you simply turn them off (manually or auto)? I assume you're not using an acoustically transparent screen? Certainly following along on this one!

[ace_92101]

Agreed. I'm interested to see how it works. Best of luck.

[ekovalsky]

Nice design concept. What protein skimmer you plan on using?


Good question! Originally I had planned a BK 250 Super Marin along with the ECO Dreambox, but am looking at alternatives now, including Alpha Vertex 250/300, ATB 10.5 Delux, Tunze 9440, as well as some less costly Asian ones i.e. Skimz SL253 or Reef Octopus Elite 220INT or Regal 300EXT (used in-sump). The 220INT looks really nice although I suspect borderline for a 450g tank that eventually will be moderately stocked. Any other suggestions for a conventional internal skimmer or an external one that can be operated in-sump, via the Bean Animal siphon drain ?


Very cool concept. How will you be handling the tank lighting in the event you're in movie 7 channel mode? Are you concerned about tank light penetrating through the screen from behind? Will you simply turn them off (manually or auto)? I assume you're not using an acoustically transparent screen? Certainly following along on this one!

Screen is not acoustically transparent but blocks light effectively. If the tank lights are still on when we watch movie, I will dim them. I am also thinking about having the millwork company make pocket doors or a removable panel that could cover the tank.

Agreed. I'm interested to see how it works. Best of luck.

Thank you, I'll need it ;)

[kris101]

ekovalsky

I just went through the skimmer decision. I looked at all the skimmers you listed and I can say after much research that the Elite 220int is to small. Its very nicely built skimmer and way better quality than the Other Reef Octo's.

I did just sell my alpha 300 as I thought it was way to big for my 300 but might be the right size for your tank, so that could be an option. Royal Exclusive does not make the the Alpha's anymore so I'm not sure of their quality.


I narrowed my choice down to ATB and Bubble King. The Bubble King won out. I got the Super Marin 200. I do think the the 250 is a good match for your tank and from what I have read about Bubble King is not to get bigger than you need

My BK is very consistent and skims well so far. Very happy I splurged and got the BK. Photos of it are in my build thread.

[ekovalsky]

ekovalsky

I just went through the skimmer decision. I looked at all the skimmers you listed and I can say after much research that the Elite 220int is to small. Its very nicely built skimmer and way better quality than the Other Reef Octo's.

I did just sell my alpha 300 as I thought it was way to big for my 300 but might be the right size for your tank, so that could be an option. Royal Exclusive does not make the the Alpha's anymore so I'm not sure of their quality.


I narrowed my choice down to ATB and Bubble King. The Bubble King won out. I got the Super Marin 200. I do think the the 250 is a good match for your tank and from what I have read about Bubble King is not to get bigger than you need

My BK is very consistent and skims well so far. Very happy I splurged and got the BK. Photos of it are in my build thread.


Kris, what did you think of the skimz ?

Agree with your assessment of the 220INT. If they made a larger model it would be an easy choice.

The Tunze skimmers tend to be overlooked and are quite effective too.

I'm a little concerned about customer service with the BK products. I haven't been able to get a quote back from Germany and there are some unhappy campers in the BK skimmer thread. Being a current deltec owner, that concerns me.

[kris101]

I didn't look at skimz.

I have read about the BK support issues and since they opened a warehouse in FL, I would hope that they get the issues resolved. Its a great skimmer and they have been around for a while so I would hope they get it straightened out.

I ordered mine through my LFS try Saltycritter.com so maybe go that route or some other online resource

[SPotter]

Great start but would like to make a couple of suggestions....

Skimmer...I am using the RO Regal 300ext and absolutely love it. It truly has been a set and forget skimmer. As far as the size skimmer you might want to ask some of the manufactures what size would be best. I was told by the guys at coralvue that your skimmer size should be based on your DT volume and not your entire system. If this is the case then you might want to consider a smaller skimmer depending on how you will stock the tank. My previous skimmer was an ATB 10.5 deluxe and while it did a great job, it cost a lot more than my Regal and I love having the ext skimmer now. Never have to worry about forgetting to turn the skimmer pump off when the main pump goes off.

Closed loop....My 96x36x24 has two separate closed loop pumps so I have 8 x 1" returns and 2 x 2" drains. I would suggest increasing the drains to 2" because you will get significant suction and dont want to lose any unsuspecting fish that are swimming by to get pulled in. I would also suggest moving 2 of your returns to the front of the tank and have them point up towards the overflow. You want them to push anything floating in the water column that you want filtered out towards the overflow. Finally, not sure if you have thought about bulkheads yet but I would use Sch80 bulkheads on the closed loop. Last thing you want is a bulkhead to crack down there. My tank builder insisted on me getting them for my tank and included them in the price of my tank.


Looking forward to seeing this all come together since the build part is the most fun!!!

[ekovalsky]

The Regal 300 is definitely a possibility, glad to hear yours is working well. I would place this in the sump, which will be large and custom built, and fed via siphon drain of a bean animal configuration. I'd have the low flow standpipe to drain upstream into the filter socks.

I agree with sizing the skimmer for DT volume since that is the source of the bio load. I do plan on using bio pellets and/or vodka ie carbon source so want to make sure I have enough skimmer capacity. BK 250 SM, RO Regal 300, vertex 300, atb 10.5, skimz sl253 should all do the job. The RO 220INT seems undersized, the 'half the rated capacity' is probably appropriate for that model.

All the holes are already sized for sch80 bulkheads. I'm only going to have one CL pump and I think the dual gravity fed 1-1/2" drains will be okay, as they will T into a single 2" pipe to the pump. But it wouldn't hurt to upsize to 2". Of course these drains will have a screen to keep livestock out, and those will be covered by a wider shield pipe or drilled rock structure. I wanted the outlets hidden in the aqua scape which is why they are so far back, will use branched locline fittings to direct flow forward/up. I may see if the front pair can be moved forward a bit though, they are pretty far back! Most flow in the DT will be from propeller pumps.


Great start but would like to make a couple of suggestions....

Skimmer...I am using the RO Regal 300ext and absolutely love it. It truly has been a set and forget skimmer. As far as the size skimmer you might want to ask some of the manufactures what size would be best. I was told by the guys at coralvue that your skimmer size should be based on your DT volume and not your entire system. If this is the case then you might want to consider a smaller skimmer depending on how you will stock the tank. My previous skimmer was an ATB 10.5 deluxe and while it did a great job, it cost a lot more than my Regal and I love having the ext skimmer now. Never have to worry about forgetting to turn the skimmer pump off when the main pump goes off.

Closed loop....My 96x36x24 has two separate closed loop pumps so I have 8 x 1" returns and 2 x 2" drains. I would suggest increasing the drains to 2" because you will get significant suction and dont want to lose any unsuspecting fish that are swimming by to get pulled in. I would also suggest moving 2 of your returns to the front of the tank and have them point up towards the overflow. You want them to push anything floating in the water column that you want filtered out towards the overflow. Finally, not sure if you have thought about bulkheads yet but I would use Sch80 bulkheads on the closed loop. Last thing you want is a bulkhead to crack down there. My tank builder insisted on me getting them for my tank and included them in the price of my tank.


Looking forward to seeing this all come together since the build part is the most fun!!!

[taekim78]

Looks like it is going to be a killer build. What are you going to do with your old tank?

[ekovalsky]

Looks like it is going to be a killer build. What are you going to do with your old tank?

I'm going to be selling it, taekim, along with basically all my existing equipment including a Deltec AP1003 and MH/VHO light rack.

A few other updates -

I wasn't even able to get a quote for a custom ECO Dreambox so am going to try and have something similar built locally. I also talked myself out of the costly European skimmers for concerns about getting replacement pumps/parts in the future - been burned on this once already!

So I'm going to pull the trigger on a Reef Octopus Regal 300EXT which should do the trick, with a 12" body. It is too tall to fit under the stand with the Reef Octopus neck cleaner, but the Vertex Vectra is shorter and I'll use one of those with its 30cm plate. Despite being an external model, the 300EXT will be installed in-sump in order to eliminate possibility of catastrophic leaks, while still allowing independent control of water and air flow and avoid major fluctuations with sump water levels. I feel this will allow more stable and efficient operation than a traditional internal skimmer. Skimmer flow will come via the siphon sandpipe of a 'bean animal' overflow setup, using a ball or gate valve to fine tune the GPH figuring about 2-3x total system volume per hour. I did this with my external Deltec skimmer back in 2007 and it has worked very well, while eliminating the need for a dedicated feed pump or parasitizing the return pump. I will have the (low flow) open channel standpipe, which will handle smaller surface debris, draining into a filter sock compartment, and the emergency drain will go straight to the pump compartment.

I've used Reeflo Dart return and closed loop pumps on my current tank and they have been great - quiet operation, low heat transfer, and reliable - except for one time the seal of the return pump went bad resulting in a major leak. Also the vibration has caused intermittent, minimal leaks around the adjacent plumbing of the sump bulkhead and closed loop. Because of this I'm leaning towards a submersible return pump such as the 80w RD3 Speedy with 1-10v control, Vertex V6, or RODC-5500S. I've also contacted Skimz about their Zenotec pumps which I think are based on the Abyzz/Zenotec, but no reply as of yet. I'll likely double up the pumps for redundancy, with one plumbed through a chiller and the other T-d off to feed internal sump plumbing/maniford for three media reactors (one for Zeovit/biopellets, one for activated carbon, one for GFO; latter would only be used intermittently, when needed.

While a Reeflo Snapper/Dart is the obvious choice for a closed loop pump, I'm tempted to use another submersible like listed above to eliminate the chance of a seal leak. That said, I think the Gold pumps may have improved seals compared to the old A.O. Smith motor ones I have been using.

I'll be working on the sump design this week and post diagrams. Since I will have a lot of space under 6' x 4' tank, I will make it fairly large!

[ekovalsky]

Preliminary sump design below, drawn as 60"L x 24"W x 20"T ~ 125G. Once dimensions are finalized I will diagram the individual baffles. I will be borrowing the design heavily from the R-E dreamboxes. No luck in even getting a quote for one of those so going to pay big bucks for a local guy to craft a high end sump...

This is being built for a 'Bean Animal' overflow configuration with:


high flow / siphon standpipe > gravity feed from overflow subsurface to external skimmer within equipment compartment
low flow / air channel standpipe > overflow surface to refugium compartment
zero flow / emergency standpipe > return compartment


The water entering the refugium will be coming directly from the overflow surface so I think should have enough nutrients to support some chaeto growth. It would be a good place for a DSB too, but hoping to not need one with biopellets. Hopefully live rock rubble and some macro algae in here will help support the population of small crustaceans in the display tank, as I do plan on having a leopard wrasse and mandarin. Outflow from the refugium will not go through the skimmer with my design; rather it will go directly to the return compartment.

Skimmer diagrammed is the Reef Octopus Diablo 300EXT, I could not find the schematic for the Regal 300EXT but should be identical except for choice of pump and some cosmetic improvements. There should be just enough room for a Vertex Vectra neck cleaner, which is about 2" lower profile than the Reef Octopus version. Larger reactor will be for biopellets. Smaller ones are for carbon and GFO, with the latter to be used when/if phosphate reduction becomes limited by available nitrate, which probably will happen at some point, or they are disporportionately high. Depending on whether I end up using single or dual return pumps and their throughput, I will either T-off a manifold from a return pump to feed the reactors, or use a dedicated pump in the equipment compartment to supply the reactors. All water in the equipment compartment will have been already processed by the recirculating skimmer, pulled via siphon from the overflow siphon below the surface.

I also will be using a kalk stirrer placed in the return compartment, connected in line with the the automatic top off.

[ekovalsky]

Some Black Friday loot has arrived.

I'm still awaiting a large GHL shipment with Profilux 3 mega pack, four Mitras 6200, and some other goodies; also anticipating a Teco TK-3000 freight delivery soon.

Tank is expected around end of December.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/04/dd4aa8f459e6232ccaa4d13c09ffe684.jpg

[ekovalsky]

I was planning on another Zeovit system but am now leaning toward utilizing the large overflow volume to hold XL biopellets (which do not need to be fluidized) in mesh bags instead. The overflow will mostly siphon drain into the external skimmer where mulm can be removed. The small amount that goes through the air channel drain will feed a small refugium then go back to the display, giving a little bacterioplankton food to the corals.

That said if I find a 6L Zeovit reactor, I might reconsider!

[Mpup]

Nice speakers BTW :)

[benjho]

Nice equips.

[Sinekal]

Really liking the design of the tank, I have been considering something similar with a coast to coast internal overflow built across the back of the tank, what is the back wall of the aquarium where the coast to coast overflow made of, acrylic or glass?

[ekovalsky]

Really liking the design of the tank, I have been considering something similar with a coast to coast internal overflow built across the back of the tank, what is the back wall of the aquarium where the coast to coast overflow made of, acrylic or glass?

The four outer walls of the tank are glass, with the front panel only starphire. I believe the overflow divider is also a slightly shorter glass panel, with an attached taller acrylic sheet with the top notched to create the weir.

Normally I would have gone with an external overflow but I had about 48" of usable depth for the system, and figured 48" with internal overflow had some advantages over 42" with external overflow.

[Meier]

[QUOTE=ekovalsky;23225343]I'm going to be selling it, taekim, along with basically all my existing equipment including a Deltec AP1003 and MH/VHO light rack.

A few other updates -

I wasn't even able to get a quote for a custom ECO Dreambox so am going to try and have something similar built locally. I also talked myself out of the costly European skimmers for concerns about getting replacement pumps/parts in the future - been burned on this once already!

Just waiting on my quote for 2 Custom ECO Dreambox. Did you try Aquarium Specialty for a quote? That is who I am going through they are a main dealer for RE

[Sinekal]

The four outer walls of the tank are glass, with the front panel only starphire. I believe the overflow divider is also a slightly shorter glass panel, with an attached taller acrylic sheet with the top notched to create the weir.

Normally I would have gone with an external overflow but I had about 48" of usable depth for the system, and figured 48" with internal overflow had some advantages over 42" with external overflow.



That's where I am too, 48" of depth, and couldn't see any harm in the extra water volume vs a smaller external overflow. I think I saw someone around here that uses the area to introduce fish to the system before going into the display.

Glass front with a taller acrylic back is exactly what I was hoping would be dsa design

[ekovalsky]

Sorry I haven't posted any updates for a while. The tank finally arrived last week, it is very nicely made! DSA did a great job on both it and the stand and were pretty quick all things considered. Of course, seeing it in the flesh, there are some things I would have done differently and a couple things on the final drawing I overlooked, which I'm now kicking myself over, but mostly these will create some headaches for my fish guy who will be doing the plumbing.

The coast-to-coast overflow in the back is simply massive and I somewhat regret not doing a smaller external or internal one... that said, there will never be any concern about an external overflow separating or leaking, and there is so much volume back there that I can use it to introduce new fish until they are acclimated (avoid combined stress of harassment and acclimation), place XL biopellets around the skimmer siphon drain, etc. Only other issue is the holes for the return lines are too close together, somewhat jailing-in the skimmer head; will just need to use some extra plumbing fittings to route them out of the way. I am going to be ordering a bunch of sweep ells to minimize flow resistance.

The sump is currently being built locally and should be ready in another week or two, then the plumbing will begin. Sump is being made as large as possible - 69 x 24 x 20 - as my old system had an undersized sump that was quite problematic. All the equipment, excluding closed loop pump and chiller and the associated plumbing, will be within the sump to minimize risk of leakage. The sump sits atop a floor drain, and I am having a bulkhead installed over the drain to make for easy water drainage.

I am also building a high end DIY light rack for the (4) GHL Mitras 6200 LV, basically a copied and slightly beefier version of the ReefKoi Radion rack. All the 80/20 aluminum extrusion, fasteners, brackets, etc. will be arriving on Monday and I'll post some photos of the assembled product. It should look much, much better and be far sturdier than my old MH/VHO setup with aluminum angle frame and bicycle rack ;) I've played with the Mitras a little, wow they are nice lights! I'm hoping I get adequate coverage from the four - which I will hang perpendicular to the tank - but can add some Kessil's or T5s if needed.

A local craftsman is doing the millwork for the theater including the tank surround. He does fabulous work (also did the rest of my home) and has tanks himself. I have not seen his design yet but am confident it will be fabulous.

Well an update to this thread is worthless without some photos from the delivery and move. The tank is incredibly heavy, probably approaching the limits of a glass tank... took 8 very strong guys (including me, I workout a lot) to get it from the floor up onto the stand. Kudos to "Muscular Moving Men" - they were pretty awesome and I recommend them highly if you're in the Phoenix area.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7d8lWMD1t10/VN0TKcHrWsI/AAAAAAAAFiU/RSTbGg-tU-Y/w738-h984-no/10968445_10205053243483580_4075274904855538201_n.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8f218aJySrk/VN0TKLZx3sI/AAAAAAAAFis/UQmiUq0naLI/w738-h984-no/10959307_10205053242843564_706493909869766608_n.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ik3yVxW57D4/VN0TKP8hePI/AAAAAAAAFic/mqLotZ6tAFo/w738-h984-no/10968381_10205057002657557_2550494341247830101_n.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mKzmHf4ufXk/VN0TKmd0ZRI/AAAAAAAAFiY/Yp-N6vBGcag/w738-h984-no/10981862_10205057002897563_7204901596044729349_n.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RxklYCTBvrM/VN0TJ9U5y2I/AAAAAAAAFik/gpZXt88mDIE/w738-h984-no/10947198_10205057003177570_8478747655089614430_n.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cwDJ3trEHuc/VN0TK3RA-gI/AAAAAAAAFig/oicYtZ4nwLU/w800-h600-no/1896910_10205057003697583_5582402700423390350_n.jpg

Here is the plumbing/system schematic I made in CAD. Most of the plumbing is mapped out (open loop in magenta, closed loop in red).

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-r6U57kOlU-o/VN0TVwkqifI/AAAAAAAAFi4/fu9Qxu0Jr2E/w800-h712-no/Screen%2BShot%2B2015-02-12%2Bat%2B1.54.17%2BPM.png

A diagram of the sump design is attached. I modeled it after the Royal Exclusive Dreambox systems. Basically first compartment (fed by air channel / low flow drain) has an area for filter socks then a refugium; rest of the sump is for skimmer and reactors and the return pump. The stand was built with cross struts on the bottom and I had limited clearance between the floor and tank because it is sitting on an elevated slab; because of this, the bottom of the sump has to be built with cutouts to fit over these struts, otherwise I wouldn't be able to remove the skimmer head which is outfitted with a Vertex cleaner.

[300fowlr]

I've often wondered about adverse effects of high-output sound on tank life. Are you concerned about that? No wet blanket here, honestly wondered about this. Do you or any on this board have experience with a similar set-up?

[ekovalsky]

I've seen other setups in home theaters and the fish honestly don't seem to care much. Even the low frequencies from the subwoofers probably are minimal compared to the vocalizations of whales ;) And think of being under water in a pool, how much of the noise above the water can you hear when submerged ?

Also while my system is capable of very high output, I do not listen at crazy volumes, typically no more than 90-100 dB... no 120 dB heavy metal here.

[ca1ore]

I have had reef tanks proximal to my HT on a few occasions and it really has no effect on the fish. Just make sure the tank is far enough away so that salt 'drift' doesn't do in any of your electronics. I had a very expensive Krell amplifier get fried as a result of salt corrosion. Not good! My current fish room backs onto my HT, but there's a full wall separating the two.

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r680/ca1ore/IMG_0693_zpsd494874d.jpg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/ca1ore/media/IMG_0693_zpsd494874d.jpg.html)

[ekovalsky]

I have four water circulation systems planned:

1. Open loop - bean animal setup with (3) 1-1/2" drains. High flow siphon drain to skimmer; low flow air channel drain to refugium with valved diverter; and zero flow emergency/backup drain to return compartment. Return pump is 80w Red Dragon 3 with 1-1/4" output feeding dual 1" return lines; shorter line will tee off to reactor manifold, longer line will route through chiller. Each will connect to a 3/4" locline manifold at the water line. Plan is for about 2x system volume flowing through open loop per hour.

2. Closed loop - dual 1-1/2" drains feeding supplying Reeflo Dart with quad 1" returns. I have an Ocean Motions 4-way from my previous system but will probably not use it, since it was a maintenance headache (with tiny particles jamming the drum), and also may limit volume with only two 1" return lines active at any given time. The returns will feed PVC/locline manifolds that will support some rock pillars; mostly the closed loop will insure adequate circulation around larger aquascape structures.

3. Gyre pumps - dual Maxspect XF150. These will be mounted on the top rear, one on each side, and face frontward pushing water away from the overflow, down the front glass, across the sandbed, and back up. hopefully by the time I buy these they will be supplied with the new rubber mounts which are supposed to reduce noise. These will be the primary water movers within the display tank, running more or less continuously, with limited programming from the controller.

4. Propeller pumps - dual Ecotech Vortech MP40qd. these will be mounted one on each side wall. Normally i will have them running at low speed, but will program them to periodically generate a stronger alternating left-right wave motion to help clear debris and prevent detritus from accumulating in certain places. Also these will maintain flow during any power outage outlasting the UPS' ability to supply the return pump, via Ecotech's battery backup system.

My livestock list includes about 50 fish, mostly smaller reef fish. Larger fish will be a Sohal tang from my old system - he's about 8" now and a mean SOB of course; a pair of crosshatch/mento triggers; and a zebra eel. I'd like a naso tang too, but will need a big one to keep the Sohal in check and with a 6' long tank that may or may not be feasible.

As for inverts, there will be a mixture of hard (LPS & SPS) and soft coral, along with some clams and cleaner-type shrimp which the zebra eel should leave alone. I'd love to have a sea apple too, they are quite fascinating to me, but I need to do more research about risks of keeping one in a high volume system running carbon. I am well aware of the theoretical risk in a lower volume system, although reports of disasters seem quite rare even in that scenario.

I am still undecided as to sandbed (thickness and size) and whether to use dead or live rock; I love the variety of life found on nice live rock but don't really want the problematic hitchhikers either. Gorilla crabs I can leave for the zebra eel or try to catch but a rogue mantis shrimp and nasty fireworms I'd prefer to not deal with. My old system had way too much live rock which left little room for the fish to swim once the corals grew; I'm not making the same mistake this time and will use only enough rock to built the aquascape. The rest will be done with live coral, over time.

This tank is similar to what I envision, although with the exception of the Fiji yellow I am not particularly fond of leather corals. So imagine this with only one zebra eel and take out most of the leathers, and that is what I hope to eventually achieve...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQgIIZfvO14

[ekovalsky]

I have had reef tanks proximal to my HT on a few occasions and it really has no effect on the fish. Just make sure the tank is far enough away so that salt 'drift' doesn't do in any of your electronics. I had a very expensive Krell amplifier get fried as a result of salt corrosion. Not good! My current fish room backs onto my HT, but there's a full wall separating the two.

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r680/ca1ore/IMG_0693_zpsd494874d.jpg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/ca1ore/media/IMG_0693_zpsd494874d.jpg.html)

Oh that's sad about the Krell. Awesome amps!

Are those Infinity/Genesis speakers ? I once owned IRS Betas... great speakers.

[ca1ore]

Yes indeed. Longtime Arnie Nudell fan so have made my way through the RS1b, Betas also, and now the Genesis 201. Only trouble with Krell is they run hot and burn through capacitors like they're pop corn.

Awesome looking tank BTW. How many people did it take to lift?

[ekovalsky]

Eight strong men for the hoist off the floor to the stand... On the second attempt, first was a fail. It was 1,300 lbs crated and over 800 lbs uncrated.

I'm a line array addict. Mine are the Nola Grand Reference... Likely a lifetime purchase. I used to have tube amps but gave them up when I moved to Arizona.

Here are a few more pics of the DSA custom...

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/e7dd07c64e7b625654c5275a26614a6a.jpg

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[ca1ore]

Eight strong men for the hoist off the floor to the stand... On the second attempt, first was a fail. It was 1,300 lbs crated and over 800 lbs uncrated.

Damn! That'll make your back ache. Been jonesing for a custom tank for a while now, but the carry in weight has scared me off so far.

I'm a line array addict. Mine are the Nola Grand Reference... Likely a lifetime purchase. I used to have tube amps but gave them up when I moved to Arizona.

Only line arrays fro me as well; though the midrange in mine has proven less than completely reliable. I still go tubes, heat's not so much of an issue here in CT.

Here are a few more pics of the DSA custom.

So, what's the usable front to back depth - you lose about 6" to the overflow? DSA make really nice tanks!

[Sunken3]

amen. my original lift was a fail as well... i came from acrylic to glass... I was not prepared... had to call a friend (this was an extra...... ) ... :)

[ekovalsky]

Display loses about 7" total with the overflow. I still have about 40" of usable depth between the front glass and overflow wall.

Again this was a compromise of sorts. I could have done a more typical, much smaller internal overflow, which reduces surface skimming effectiveness; an internal coast-to-coast that was not full height, which results in a shadowed and rather inaccessible area along the tank rear that is hard to make good use of; or a coast-to-coast external overflow, but would have had to reduce display tank size for comfortable clearance behind it.

If I could go back in time, I probably would have made the tank 78" wide with a 6" coast-to-coast internal overflow along the right (48") wall, i.e. peninsula style although it would still have been an in-wall setup with only the 72" display portion visible.

[ekovalsky]

Light rack is complete, this is built with 80/20 T-slot product from their Ebay store.


http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/16/c2fefe9f045173c6a0386722b24999c7.jpg

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[ekovalsky]

Sorry for the lack of updates, the tank progress has been sslllooooowwwww but it is coming along. Most of the early work was to get the home theater completed, which is basically is - I'm just waiting for the baseboards and a custom equipment stand (disguised as a coffee table) which will hold the audio components.

As for the tank, plumbing has all been dry fit and gluing has begun. Hope to have some water in it soon!

I would like to move my old tank, so if anyone is interested in an AGA (Tom Hudson era) 235 gallon 72 x 29 deep x 27 tall please let me know. It is starphire front, glass sides, 1" PVC bottom with closed loop bulkheads, acrylic eurobrace top, and external R side overflow.

Here are recent photos:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I-iQoce7oF8/Vd9yY14WUgI/AAAAAAAAGLM/WojL2VV1G4k/w838-h628-no/IMG_0318.JPG

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[Scythanith]

I like the light rack. It looks clean and sturdy! Great looking theater room. Congrats on the builld.

[Sinekal]

The sump looks like it worked out really well, perfect fit into the stand. What features did you have built in? You please with the build quality?

The theater room turned out great!

[MCC]

how is the noise coming from the speakers? would it affect the fish??

[ekovalsky]

The sump design was challenging, there are channels on the bottom that fit over structural supports that unexpectedly were present in the stand upon delivery. Since the skimmer is under the tank, I was very limited in vertical space. So, the sump sits on a pad directly on the floor, with the stand supports passing through the channels on the bottom. I gave Dom a detailed CAD drawing and he built it perfectly.

The air-glass-water interface is inefficient for transmission of sound; think of how much sound you hear when submerged in a pool. And while the speakers are capable of 120dB, I don't listen at excessive levels, and don't forget whale vocalizations are vastly louder and indeed travel thousands of kilometers through the ocean!

[nuxx]

Very clean, tagging along :)

[ekovalsky]

After about a year it's finally getting going!

I added about 400 pounds of fully cured LR today. About half came from my old system, the rest came from two LFS. It's a mix of Fiji, Pukani/Tukani, Tonga, and Marshall Islands. Almost all of the pieces are large, a handful are very large. I'm planning on adding a zebra eel and pair of crosshatch triggers, so didn't want piles of smaller rocks for them to disrupt.

For now it is just sitting in the tank with gyres running, I also added a gallon of reef stew to help establish the copepod and amphipod population. Later this weekend someone smaller than me will be 'diving in' to aquascape, after which I'll fire up the skimmer. I'll add the sand subsequently, right now I'm planning on a ~ 2 inch bed of 'special grade' reef sand.

The gyre XF150 pumps are simply awesome, they move a ton of water and are silent. They are on the back wall with flow directed to the front. I have a pair of MP40s that will be installed on the side walls, and a closed loop with a Reeflo Dart.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/26/36730de09c8221e63b358a5c6ba94f00.jpg

[ekovalsky]

Preliminary aquascaping is done courtesy of my wife. I've started dosing Microbacter7 too. Tomorrow I will start measuring nitrogen cycle parameters. Since this rock was all cured not sure how much of a cycle there will be... If I don't detect any ammonia within a few days I'll toss a peeled shrimp in to see how it is handled.

Barring any unforeseen circumstances I am hoping to add the substrate (special grade reef sand) next weekend.

The system is essentially silent, except for the hum of Dart when the closed loop is running. The submerged RODC skimmer pump and RedDragon RD3 speedy return pump are not audible. The gyres are only audible for the swooshing of the water when in wave mode. I have not installed the Vortechs yet but they are the latest QuietDrive version so expect them to be nearly inaudible too.

I have the GHL Profilux and Mitras configured and running in the next room. I'll transfer them to the fish room this week. Setup is pretty involved but it's very robust and powerful system once it is programmed.

Once I detect any nitrate and phosphate I will start adding NP A-I-O biopellets immediately. They will go in a full size minimax that will sit in the overflow, with output directed to siphon drain supplying the skimmer. I'll start with a tiny bit ~ 250 cc and add more as the bioload demands. I'll change out the standard Innovative Marine pump for a stronger one, based on how the tumbling looks.

I'm using Red Sea Coral Pro salt which has fairly high dKh and an Avast Kalk stirrer on the ATO (no kalk added yet since there is no livestock). I will monitor alkalinity and either fire up a calcium reactor or start dosing B-ionic when necessary - which will probably be many months.

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[ekovalsky]

Rock has been in for eight days now. I've dosed daily with Microbacter7 and also started running a small amount of NP AIO biopellets in a Minimax full size that I've placed in the overflow, right over the skimmer siphon drain. My goal is to avoid the heavy bacterial films/sheets in the DT that I previously had with Vodka dosing, and the daily maintenance associated with Zeovit.

I've checked various parameters and have not yet seen much of a 'nitrogen cycle' - no ammonia or nitrite detectable but ~ 5ppm nitrate. Since it was all fully cured live rock from LFS (only life I've seen is a couple of < 1 cm worms) the usual ammonia then nitrite spikes may not occur. Some diatom film has of course formed. With all the flow in the DT from the Gyres, closed loop, and Vortechs, most of it is nicely settling into the sump or overflow where I can easily vacuum it out. I have the flow in the tank setup where all the detritus accumulates in the middle of the tank rear, where I can easily suck it out using a Python, from the fish room. I'm hoping this will make less work of maintaining the shallow sand bed. I have 200 lbs of Tropic Eden Reef Flakes on hand for that, once I am confident the primary cycling of the LR is complete.

Alas at least some of the LR is leaching quite a bit of phosphate, I am registering 1-2ppm on the Salifert test. And yes only RO/DI water with 000 reading was used for the fill. Since there are neither animals nor substrate yet in the tank, I have started daily dosing of lanthanum chloride via slow drip. The drip goes into the overflow right above the siphon drain to the skimmer. Each dose should be enough to drop the PO4 in 500 gallons about 1ppm; however, I am expecting to need numerous treatments since the PO4 equilibriates between the rock and water (hence why I'm not bothering trying to handle it just with water changes, I don't think they would be very effective). With this slow drip technique, the skimmer seems to capture most of the precipitate - the skimmate has turned whitish and I only see a minimum amount of precipitate film in the DT.

I am carefully monitoring pH and alkalinity, since lanthanum ions can precipitate carbonate as well as phosphate. But it seems to have a much higher affinity for phosphate - there has been almost no change in dKH yet, tested 12 hours after the first dose. I've read that it can drop alkalinity quite a bit, but maybe that only happens when dumping in a full dose where the concentration of LCl rises too fast ? I have set up my ATO with kalk stirrer so that should help maintain alkalinity if it does drop some; if necessary I will dose to bring it back up.

Once the substrate goes in and I start adding animals, I will try to manage PO4 with bacteria/carbon dosing (starting off with NP AIO Biopellets) and GFO. I think the biologic use ratio of N:P is about 16:1 so this time around I'm going to aggressively manage phosphate and not worry so much about nitrate, it is a lot easier to manage via carbon dosing and water changes.

I finally got GHL controller up and running, after staging in the game room where I had more room to play around with it, and will be moving the light rack in this weekend. I'm not sure if I should start running the lights to allow algae to grow with the existing nutrients in the system and then try to remove it, or keep the tank in mostly dark until the nutrients are very low, minimizing any algae blooms. Any suggestions on that ?

On Tuesday, I'm picking up a pair of 105g Norwesco vertical storage tanks and will set up a automatic water change system with those. I already have a 35g horizontal tank under the stand which holds RO/DI for ATO. I am using an Aqualifter to pump RO/DI from the tank through a Avast kalk stirrer, and it should last a long time with minimal head and only RO/DI running through it. But I might upgrade to a more robust Litermeter peristaltic pump anyway.

I'm still organizing the fish room and will post photos of it when it is more complete. It is a relatively small exterior/pool bath that I gutted. In the future I may expand via an addition, putting a new exterior bath behind it. I'd really like to have room for fish QT & hospital tanks, invert QT tank, frag tank, etc. The space I have now is adequate - and I feel fortunate to have a 'fish room' at all - but its really cramped.

[scubadan206]

One question and one comment...
Regarding your old tank, how does it have and acrylic eurobrace on a glass tank? You can't silicone the two together.
I have heard about bacterial problems on tanks that run bio pellets with a minimal to non-existent bioload. The bacteria you want to grow needs a constant source of nutrients. The bacteria also processes nitrites better than nitrates. Skipping from nitrite right to nitrogen. If you have nothing to fuel the full process you risk a bacterial bloom that will be difficult to remove.
I would wait until you have an actual need for carbon based nutrient removal.
love the setup. It will be awesome when mature.
Daniel.:cool:

[ekovalsky]

Hi Daniel, the brace is actually glass with a piece of acrylic or some other plastic underneath it. A ridge was left where the two come together which is perfect for a screen cover, important since I plan on keeping some jumpers and escape artists (bluespot jawfish, fairy wrasses, zebra moray). Tom Hudson the tank designer, formerly with AGA and now with DSA, seems to know how to secure acrylic to glass although typically you are right in that they do not bond together; my old tank from AGA did have a full acrylic perimeter brace and I never had problems with it. I read there were issues with a few AGA tanks in systems with MH lighting in enclosed canopies, so the attachment method may have been vulnerable to significant het exposure; my old system had an exhaust vent which kept the temperature near room level. But apparently he now only does glass bracing, or glass-acrylic hybrid bracing like mine.

As far as the biopellets I just got a very tiny amount - about 250 cc - started for now, a small fraction of what the tank will likely need in the future. I will add more as the bioload justifies. Even though the rock was all cured there is still plenty of die-off/decay resulting in some nutrients in the water. They were out of balance, with P much higher than N from the calcium phosphate in the rock establishing an equilibrium with the new saltwater, which is why I'm aggressively treating it with LCl. So far I have dosed three times and the P:N ratio has dropped from 2:5 to about 1:15, which is near the point where normal biological processes should keep them in sync. My goal is to keep the nutrient levels under good control from the beginning, rather than try to chase them once they get very high. P is usually the trouble, as water changes are not so effective in reducing it, since the rock and substrate act as capacitors, compared to N, which is all in the water column.

[Socaltoaz]

Your tank is looking great! Congrats.

[scubadan206]

Mechanically, how are your biopellets working? I have tried several varieties and they all tend to float a bit too much. Currently I have the BRS one's. I'd say about 1/10 of them never want to sink. Regardless of the flow through the reactor I always have about 1 inch gummed up around the top screen.
I suppose I could reach in and separate the sinkers from the floaters...:p EEEWW

[ekovalsky]

Your tank is looking great! Congrats.

Thank you. Nice to finally get it going after a year!

Mechanically, how are your biopellets working? I have tried several varieties and they all tend to float a bit too much. Currently I have the BRS one's. I'd say about 1/10 of them never want to sink. Regardless of the flow through the reactor I always have about 1 inch gummed up around the top screen.
I suppose I could reach in and separate the sinkers from the floaters...:p EEEWW

I bought the NP All-in-One biopellets. They seem heavier and darker than most others I've seen but they are tumbling nicely with only a couple stuck near the top. I placed the reactor (an Innovative Marine MiniMax full size, pump is only 211gph) in the overflow right next to the siphon drain for the skimmer, so all biofilm escaping should get removed before it reaches the DT. Bacterioplankton does make a good food source for filter feeders and non-photosynthetic inverts - including some gorgonians, dendronephthya, etc - so ultimately I'll likely keep some biopellets in the overflow and some in the sump. Once the tank is matured it will likely need ~ 2.5L of biopellets, right now I'm only using 10% of that amount since there is minimal bioload.

On a good note, phosphate is down to about 0.1-0.25ppm (Salifert test) after three LCl administrations, which is a big improvement from 2-3ppm. The stuff definitely works. I may try to design/build a LCl reactor, using a dosing pump 5 micron filter socks, for regular use.

[ekovalsky]

Making progress in the fish room, here are a few pics.

Phosphate is pretty much gone, have had the lights on a couple days now and no significant algae growth yet. LPo4 precipitate did coat the glass and bottom but it comes right off... Going to clean everything off and blow off the rocks once the 5 micron socks arrive, then will put in the 200 lbs of Tropic Eden Reef Flakes.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/05/e557abae28a445545b2bd27506cf090d.jpg

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[ekovalsky]

Picked these up today. Short term will be for RO/DI and mixed saltwater storage. Will eventually make a mixing station with an external pump, uniseals, and a bunch of valves.

Also picked up a 65g long tank and stand for $250 at Petsmart, to be set up as a permanent QT.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/06/03afad02687f470405469128e9753fc2.jpg

[nuxx]

Those look familiar :)

We use one for RODI and one for AWC water.

[ekovalsky]

Norwesco 105 verticals. I really should have gotten the 50 vertical which is 18" diameter and a bit shorter, but it would be cramped in my fish room with those already... so figured might as well be more cramped with 23" diameter tanks that have double the storage capacity. The 65 gallon QT tank and stand are going in there too. I need to keep my body fat in the single digit range otherwise I might lose access to my own fish room :hmm2:

[smklaw]

Where did you source the holding tanks?

[ekovalsky]

I got them locally from Ag Spray in Tempe. Luckily the two just barely fit into a BMW X5. For those local to the Phoenix, AZ area, they have a good variety of tanks in various sizes and shapes, from 35 up to probably 25,000+ gallons.

This week I set up a 65g quarantine tank (learned my lesson with parasites last time around) and have my 8" sohal tang in there. I had some sponges soaking in the display to prime the filter but am keeping a close eye on NH4 and will use Seachem Prime and do water changes as necessary. He's been in a holding tank at a local service company for the past 9 months. He was real fat and a perfect specimen when I broke down my previous setup, despite the tank being neglected for a long time. Now he is pretty skinny and has manifestations of HLLE. Hopefully being in the new tank and feeding him lots of algae with vitamins will clear it up over time. Once I confirm he isn't carrying any parasites he'll go into the display... needless to say he'd be among the last fish I'd prefer to put into there, but I just cannot keep him in a 65 gallon for very long. Hopefully with the large volume and lots of rock with hiding places, he won't pester the smaller fish I plan to add. If he does, he's fortunately easy to get into a trap and he'll temporarily go back into quarantine. There won't be any other acanthurus tangs (he'd likely kill them), and I will find a hippo and/or Vlamingi and/or unicorn that's bigger than him. Zebrasomas would be added as a school of 5 which should diffuse the aggression. I'd like a Kole or Chevron too - that might be problematic. Only other large fish planned will be a zebra eel that he'll ignore, and a pair of mento/crosshatch triggers, which generally are shipped as good size adults so they should not be a problem. Hopefully in his relatively old age (now about 9 years) he's mellowed out a bit - he definitely seems more shy after spending 9 months in jail!

[ekovalsky]

Today I used a pump to blow as much detritus/diatoms/algae off the rocks as possible, and cleaned the PVC bottom and tank sides. I had filter socks in place of course.

Then I added 200 lbs of Tropic Eden Reef flakes, six dry bags and one 'live' bag. The sand was pretty clean so I didn't bother washing it, as there is no livestock in the display and it didn't really matter if the water clouded. Water of course did cloud but is already starting to clear after a couple hours, I can already see the rocks. I highly recommend this sand, it is worth the few extra dollars over the ubiquitous CaribSea stuff... it is much cleaner, whiter, and ideal grain size for moderate to high flow tanks. I think only Premium Aquatics carries it here in USA, but they ship for free and I'm very glad I purchased it.

I forgot to turn off the skimmer pump so it overflowed, but the Reef Octopus is cleverly designed to cut off the air once the cup is full, and it worked nicely. And even though it's an external model, having it in the sump is an added layer of insurance. For the $850 or so I paid, it is an incredible skimmer! I never thought I'd use the DC pump control - who would want to cut down the air flow into their skimmer ? - but I was able to restart it at lower speed and keep the foam head manageable, while all the particular matter is still in the water column. So it can be useful ;)

I'll post a photo of the tank once the water clears up a bit more.

My Sohal tang was not properly fed while in holding and was brought back with mild to moderate HLLE :mad2: I'm feeding him vitamin soaked algae sheets and hopefully that plus the new water will allow him to return to his normal gorgeous self. Even though the quarantine is 65g it's obviously way to small for an adult Sohal so he will go into the display pretty soon as long as he doesn't show any sign of parasitic disease; he may have to come out again for new fish additions, depending on how much of an *** he decides to be.

[ekovalsky]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/11/ab82af415b4f48e7992a777a7832599e.jpg

Water clearing up quickly

Clean up crew mid week then first corals next weekend [emoji106]

[dave.m]

If you didn't pre-rinse the sand you may want to keep close tabs on nitrates and phosphates the first few weeks. Any organic materials in the fines will start to rot.

Dave.M

[ekovalsky]

I definitely will. I did plan on rinsing it, but after examining it with a loupe it seemed extremely clean.

Water is already crystal clear this morning.

[ekovalsky]

Clean up crew added this Wednesday, ordered from Reefcleaners. I got the 265g package with 'reef safe' hermits; many are pretty big - none seem to be the typical tiny red and blue legged ones, and the more obnoxious acting/looking ones will be relocated to the sump/refugium before I stock any smaller fish. I will replace with scarlet leg reef hermits, the ones with yellow eyes. Good things is the bigger ones seem to be snacking on the anticipated green hair algae that followed the diatoms.

A few Trochus snails seem to be dead or non-viable, but all the others got to work pretty quick. The fighting conch is pretty interesting, never had one before. There isn't much in the sand bed yet so need to figure out how to feed it.

[dave.m]

Flake food or pellets that land on the substrate will keep the conch and any nassarius snails happy.

Dave.M

[ekovalsky]

Photo update

You may notice the fish stocking is kind of reversed. This is out of necessity and intent... Had my 7 yr old Sohal who needed to go in ASAP as he developed HLLE in holding. Luckily as Sohals go he is pretty mellow and is mostly friendly with the smaller female naso already. The trigger is of course the boss, he has a girlfriend en route too.

The only other large fish I anticipate adding is a zebra eel. And a regal angel although they're more medium sized really.

A flame hawkish is going in next. Angels, anthias, blennies, and clownfish will follow in groups, after making it through quarantine, with mystery, leopard, and fairy wrasses and dragnets last. This should allow the pod population to get well established and support the fish that largely rely on them.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/21/2f8cb37abede1e18e8c0cdbcf747225f.jpg

[nuxx]

Nice fish :)

[ekovalsky]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/7fcaf64b4f7f5a9c5142445b1d6fff33.jpg

Photo update Dec 2015

You might notice some glass bowls... Well they are there because of the crazy *** Sohal... Plan to trap him and put him in purgatory for a while so he'll stop nibbling on coral [emoji52]. I see the flame angel occasionally nip at coral or surface mucus causing temporary retraction, but it doesn't harass anything in particular enough to really be an issue. The Sohal, on the other, takes big bites and of whatever he considers his daily special. He really likes euphyllia and cataphyllia, he ate some of a wall hammer that stung the heck out of me whenever I touched it so he likes it spicy. He killed it, of course, with infection ensuing after his bite damage.

He's the source of basically all my tank problems but he's been mine since 2007 and I'm having a hard time giving him up. And he's freaking gorgeous! If anyone is wondering he's very well fed (including two grazers with nori available 24/7) and he's probably 1-1/2" thick if not more. I just cannot seem to satisfy his appetite and he will nibble even after a big feeding of algae and meaty food.

The crosshatch triggers don't bother any corals and have left the CUC alone, although they quickly attacked a sea apple I tried put in the display, of all things! So it had to go into the refugium, unfortunately. So far they have not bother the one starfish I have.

My wife's aquascape has held up well, even eith this clumsy guy

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/1aaefc231b64d5512e759e673b2ea1d2.jpg

[Thefishwrangler]

Wow. Very cool. Do you have any updated photos of your technical area? Such as the mixing station and other equipment.