Newbie: Does cycled freshwater tank need to wait for cycle to complete when add salt?

[cschaefer]

Newbie :wave: Please no pitchforks... I probably screwed up in your opinion / infinite knowledge but I think it'll work since I work at home and stare at my tank all day...

So I had a freshwater tank that was going pretty good except that I got down to 2 fish after a while from the all hungry Indonesian Tigerfish (bastard ate everyone) and I just decided to throw them in my aquaponics setup and convert the tank to Saltwater. I'm sure I'm missing more than a few things people would say I need but for now I'm thinking that water changes should keep it in check.

I have:
-40 gallon bowfront fishtank
-2x 50 gallon filters
-2x clownfish
-10x hermit crabs
-4x cheap snails (4 for $10)
-1 $15 shrimp critter
-1 little emperor crab
-1 $10 anenome that was purple (little nemo and the anenome)
-15lb of live rock
-rocks from my FW fish tank that I put back after mixing salt with water, etc. (wife loves purple and not necessarily looking for natural)

What I did:
-Added salt to freshwater tank as specified on package for 40 gallons
-ran 2 water filters for 50 gallons with no filter to mix the water for 2 hours
-emptied 10 gallons and added 10 gallons of "real sea water" PetCo sells
-added live rock that came from water / brought it in water from a live healthy tank (not PetCo) so should be pretty active?

so my question is if the bacteria from freshwater cycling would have been nuked or if they are one in the same?

current levels after 2 days: (using a real saltwater test kit / not strips)
PH: 8.3
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10

Everyone is happy in the tank so far so should I expect spikes or everything is active already so I should be good?

I probably need a better light for my anemone? Do they sell something I could screw in a regular light socket and just buy several / build my own hood? definitely not going for $200 light for a single anemone...
(pictures soon)

[m0nkie]

Watch out for ammonia.. I would take out all live stocks and put them in a side tank for now. Your tank is in a cycle. It might be a faster cycle because you have live rocks, but it's still bad for your live stock. Using fish to cycle is pretty cruel for the fish. Clowns are very hardy, but still... there's better alternatives. Like a raw shrimp or bacteria in a bottle. You can put your current ones in a small 20gal tank with store mixed water. Change water often and watch for ammonia. Let your main tank cycle. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, low nitrate.

read this comprehensive list on how to set up a proper tank. You can't just plug in a regular light bulb. The cheapest lighting option is probably some T5 lights.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

I don't think 15lbs of rock is enough. You might need another 20lbs or so.

not sure if your CUC and shrimp will survive cycle... good luck!

[W1ngz]

Freshwater bacteria won't survive in saltwater as far as I've read. They may live a few days or weeks, but will die out. You might get really lucky and the other varieties will colonize as the die off happens, but keep an eye on your ammonia daily for the next month. It may spike suddenly.

[cschaefer]

Pics should be attached here... They are like 4MB each so might take a minute to load if you don't have good internet :blown:

http://www.supportbayarea.com/temp/20141102_153720.jpg
http://www.supportbayarea.com/temp/20141102_170031.jpg
http://www.supportbayarea.com/temp/20141102_154037.jpg
http://www.supportbayarea.com/temp/20141102_202940.jpg

[cschaefer]

Website keeps failing out when try to edit down the size of pictures X-( sorry

[Sk8r]

You have to set up a marine tank from the beginning with sand and live rock that is not exposed to fresh water, and fill it with salt water before you begin cycling it to grow marine bacteria. If you just add salt to a freshwater tank, I fear you are going to get a froth of dead bacteria, as the freshwater bacteria die off. It takes four weeks, setting up from clean marine rock, sand, and water, for the tank to be ready for snails, and four more to be ready for fish.

[myofibroblast]

Freshwater bacteria won't survive in saltwater as far as I've read. They may live a few days or weeks, but will die out. You might get really lucky and the other varieties will colonize as the die off happens, but keep an eye on your ammonia daily for the next month. It may spike suddenly.


I suggest more reading then. Good luck.

[SFish]

Those rocks are going to trap a ton of crap in them. I would get rid of them. Also mixing salt in the tank it self is not a great idea.

[W1ngz]

I suggest more reading then. Good luck.

There is ALWAYS more reading, but could you be more specific? It seems like you're suggesting my statement is incorrect, yet it was perfectly corroborated by Sk8r's post. Perhaps I'm not understanding your meaning.

[W1ngz]

Website keeps failing out when try to edit down the size of pictures X-( sorry

For resizing pics I really like a little program called IRFanView. Basic, but has a really handy batch resize/resample that alone makes it worthwhile.

[myofibroblast]

Freshwater bacteria won't survive in saltwater as far as I've read. They may live a few days or weeks, but will die out.


1. The first statement as a general statement is incorrect. Evidence that certain bacteria (and certain prokaryotes including bacteria and archaea) can tolerate a range of salinities is abundant and easily accessible to anyone with internet connection.

2. If you are referring specifically to ammonia oxidizing and nitrite oxidizing bacteria, then I also recommend doing your own reading of the primary literature.

3. Someone agreeing with you on an internet forum does not equate with corroborating evidence.

I will let you discover for yourself and hope you are more careful in the future before you participate in spreading misinformation.

As for the other comments regarding whether another "cycle" will ensue, I have no problem with opinions that one likely will as many of the freshwater nitrifying bacterial population (i.e. a heterogeneous mix) were selected for a specific ecology (including but not limited to salinity). However that does not equate with all freshwater/saltwater bacteria will perish in a different salinity.

Good luck.

[gone fishin]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

Hope this helps.

[Nina51]

i hope you realize that the fish in the first picture is not a clown fish, it is a copperband butterfly fish and certainly not appropriate for a beginner nor is your tank anywhere near big enough to keep it.

[SFish]

He has a clown fish in there as well

[SFish]

The best thing I think you can do is take everything back and start over. Get rid of the rocks on the bottom and the hang on back filter. Get some sand and more live rock. Look into a sump maybe a hang on the back one and maybe a skimmer as well. Pick up some power heads and a light.

[killinit123]

^^ i second this statement.. chances are that copper-band will not make it very long if left in your tank especially because you do not have it in the the right water volume anyway.. i suggest starting over and read read and do more reading about reef tanks and equipment that you need. this is not a hobby you can just jump into and expect things to "work out". it takes a lot of research and a lot of time to successfully maintain a reef tank. not to mention it is cruel to any animal that you put into the tank when parameters are not able to support such life. just remember nothing good happens fast in this hobby. take your time do your research and ask as many questions as possible. but do this before you just try to set up a salt water tank.

[wooden_reefer]

Bacteria can adjust to salinity.

Long ago, I had started saltwater FO tanks with garden soil.

But I suggest that a marine source of bacteria be added.

[maddmaxx]

i hope you realize that the fish in the first picture is not a clown fish, it is a copperband butterfly fish and certainly not appropriate for a beginner nor is your tank anywhere near big enough to keep it.

soon as i started to read this thread, it was clear, how terrible the thought process was. between the freshwater and adding salt, then the copper band, then the clownfish, then the anemone, then the horrid gravel. this is goin to end fast and terribly. its a shame. damn shame

[Aurori]

I think you tried to smash everything together a bit to fast. I am a bit new to this hobby too but from what i researched and read, is that live rock is still a salt water organism so must be salt water. As for the fish, they shouldnt even be in there, i was told you need to let your tank cycle with the live rock, live sand, and salt water for 1 month before even testing out 1 fish in it. If you can return those fish please do! also a good rule that was told to go by to help keep your tank stable is that you should never more then double the amount of fish you have in your tank in one go. so start out with one, then you can put 2 more later on, then 4 more later one and so on. this helps control levels in the tank.
It is a slow process but with how much these fish cost never mind them being living creatures, it is worth taking your time.

[Dapg8gt]

Basically you did every single thing wrong you can do minus throwing a rock into the glass. The store that sold you all that stuff deserves some bad karma because that's just plain wrong, especially if you went over your plan with them.

No one here is trying to be mean but you literally have no idea what your doing and all of your livestock will perish because you think it's the same as Fw. Copper band butterfly fish are for experienced marine Aquarist, doubt your light will sustain an anemone and just the fact of you calling the clowns "Nemo" shows you threw it together on a whim without any sort of research or knowledge.

So many people think since they are successful in freshwater they are a pro in saltwater. It's so different it's basically a total relearn of what you thought was right when it comes to freshwater.. I've done both for a long time and it's more than adding some salt to an old running tank and think that's all you need to do.

If your serious about this hobby or your livestock you should start over after you learn what is going on..