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View Full Version : high phosphates (3.06 !?!) -- please critique my plan


formsix
11/04/2014, 08:36 AM
Background: Tank has been set up for 7 months, started with completely live florida gulf rock and sand. Tank is ~75 gallons plus a 40 breeder sump, so just under 100g total water volume. I use, and always have used, RODI water and Instant Ocean salt. TDS meter has just starting to read an output of .01, so I ordered replacement cartridges from BRS along with a reactor and GFO (see plan at the end).

Inhabitants: 5 smallish fish (2 ocellaris clowns, 1 fairy wrasse, 1 royal gramma, and 1 new leopard wrasse), 7 shrimp, 1 large baseball-sized urchin and 4 little ones, 1 flame scallop, tons of feather dusters, little clams that came with the rocks, sponges, etc. There are several gorgonians that don't look as great as they used to, but still okay. There's also a torch coral that is okay (extends, but doesn't seem to be loving life at the moment), and a blasto that couldn't be happier.

So critters generally look good, except the large urchin started loosing some spines about a month ago. That led to our quick assessment that high nitrates might be the culprit (see below). We also had a reduction in algae over the past few months, so I also thought that maybe the urchin wasn't getting enough to eat, and started feeding him nori a few times a week. He seems much better, spine loss stopped completely after both of those changes (yeah, I know making 2 changes at once isn't great, but I didn't really want to experiment on my critter), and he's moving around more, but not completely back to his crazy all over the tank self.

Sooo, the nitrates. We've been battling high nitrates (in the 30-40ppm range) for a while, and slowly getting them down after one big water change (50%) and several smaller (15%) changes. Did my first complete water chemistry check yesterday. Now I'm freaking out more about the phosphates than the nitrates... and I think everything else seems fine?

Calcium 410
Mg 1320
Kh/Alk 9.9
Nitrates ~20ppm
Phosphates 3.06

Other potentially relevant info:
Two weeks ago I added a large ball of chaeto to the sump refugium. It gets some flow, but maybe not enough. It's been turning brown and decaying, no matter what I try to do with it.

I dose phyto in small amounts (a few drops of concentrated stuff 2-3 times a week) to feed the flame scallop and other small inverts, and also to try and bolster my pod population.

We have a skimmer, a Reef Octopus 150, and it pulls some gross sludgy stuff, but not in crazy amounts, and nothing has changed over the past few months. Granted, I have no idea when the phosphates started creeping up. No dosing and no reactors yet.

We do not currently have much of an algae issue, but now I'm worried that one can be imminent. I have been seeing a little algae (cyano probably) under the sandbed (where the sand meets the tank), but nothing on top of the sand or on the rocks. There are tiny spots of brownish algae starting to form on the sides of the tank -- hardly noticeable so far. The return area of the sump seems slimier than usual -- there is a thick layer of cream-coloered biofilm down there, even though I just cleaned it a few weeks ago. No idea what that's about.

Current Plan: I just ordered a dual reactor, some GFO, and some carbon from BRS. Plan is to use the GFO to remove phosphates (starting slow and ramping up over a few weeks). Figured carbon can't hurt, and might help clear up the water a bit -- there are always little particles floating about). Also ordered a Hanna Checker, because I have no idea how accurate that red sea phosphate test is.

Is that enough to start? What else? Anything else seem out of whack or potentially heading that way? Thanks for any and all advice!!

pscott99
11/04/2014, 09:23 AM
Reads solid to me. You are doing well for 7 months. GFO should help a lot. I don't use Carbon. That's a lot of urchins. They do get quite big. Mine was baseball size when it died. One was enough to look after.

gbru316
11/04/2014, 09:31 AM
Have you tried carbon dosing?

formsix
11/04/2014, 01:56 PM
Reads solid to me. You are doing well for 7 months. GFO should help a lot. I don't use Carbon. That's a lot of urchins. They do get quite big. Mine was baseball size when it died. One was enough to look after.

Thanks! Glad to know I'm on the right track, and hopefully the GFO will be just what I need to get the phosphates down.

The urchins are kinda ridiculous -- the one big pincushion came intentionally with all the rock, but we had over a dozen little hitchhikers at one point. They started out the size of pencil erasers and then just kept growing! We traded all but 4 into the LFS so far (and a crab in the sump snacked on a few, but we won't go there). We still have 2 longspine black urchins and 2 baby pincushions -- and together those two small pincushions are wearing nearly every loose shell in the tank -- but if they all keep growing I might have to trade more in.

Have you tried carbon dosing?

No, not yet. I had been looking into vinegar/vodka dosing and it seemed like running GFO might be something to try first just to get the phosphates down, but maybe dosing would help stability in the long term? I know they're doing two totally different things, and I'll look more into dosing.

bertoni
11/04/2014, 02:27 PM
That seems like a reasonable start, although a lot of the phosphate might be from food. If so, you might need to rethink the feeding level.

Even 40 ppm of nitrate should be fine for an urchin. I suspect starvation was the major problem there. The dissolved nutrient are more likely to be a problem for stony corals. You could try some carbon dosing. That seems reasonable to me. The tank might need more nutrient export over the long haul, depending on the source of the phosphate.

formsix
11/04/2014, 07:16 PM
That seems like a reasonable start, although a lot of the phosphate might be from food. If so, you might need to rethink the feeding level.

Even 40 ppm of nitrate should be fine for an urchin. I suspect starvation was the major problem there. The dissolved nutrient are more likely to be a problem for stony corals. You could try some carbon dosing. That seems reasonable to me. The tank might need more nutrient export over the long haul, depending on the source of the phosphate.

Yes, I'm sure my feeding regimen is largely to blame for the phosphates, and I'm trying to control that now! I think I was dosing phyto and reef chili too heavily (didn't realize most people suggest dosing far less than the bottle suggests), and also started feeding 2-3x/day from 1-2x. The goal was smaller more frequent feedings, but I think the overall quantity of food increased more than I intended as well.

I do "hope" starvation was the issue with the urchin as I think that's under control now, though I feel bad for putting him through that.

I don't have plans for SPS, but I do want to start adding more LPS, so I figured now was a good time to start getting serious about testing and get the parameters where they should be. Carbon dosing seems like it's worth a try to help with that. Thanks!!

bertoni
11/04/2014, 11:17 PM
You're welcome! Good luck!