Tank Re-seal

[eezied]

Hello,

I have a 150 gal tank that needs to be re-sealed. I have tried 2 times and both times it has had a major leak after a couple of weeks/month. The last time the tanked leaked, I sat the tank outside while the carpet dried. I noticed the tank had some water still in it but was not leaking. I decided to fill the tank back up while it was outside. I was able to fill the tank about half way before it started to leak underneath in one of the corners. I guess the weight of the water eventually opens a gap. I checked the seal around the area and the seal looks like it is intact.

I need to find someone or a company around the Tampa Area that might be able to seal the tank at a reasonable price. I would appreciate any information that could help.

ThankU

[blue18]

i would try to scrape off all old rubber/silicone around where i lay the new adhesive/silicone malke sure its clean and dry.let the adhesive/silicone fully cure before adding water.

good luck

[Wryknow]

In order to do a proper reseal you have to completely separate the glass panels, clean off ALL of the silicone and re-do everything. You also have to use a good professional silicone (RTV-103 is my preference.) It's a ton of work to do right and most likely you would pay a professional more to re-do the seams for you then it would cost to buy a new tank. It is a significant DIY project but it can be done. Spend some time on you tube watching videos!

[ReeferAl]

Wryknow is right that the best way to reseal a tank is to completely disassemble and reassemble it.

If you're willing to risk another leak you could try resealing without fully disassembling. Do as blue18 advised- remove all the old silicone from the inside. Add an additional step though. Clean all the seam areas with acetone before resealing. That will give the silicone the best seal to the glass. If that doesn't work though you're stuck with a complete redo.

Allen

[tkeracer619]

The cost of a 150 isn't really all that much in the long run. Consider replacing the tank.

[NanoReefWanabe]

first of all….this tank doesn't need a reseal it needs a rebuild…

a tank that is leaking water needs to be rebuilt or used for lizards, a tank with careless razor blade use that still holds water needs a reseal..

two different things, the silicone in the joints holding the tank together is not a seal, the seal is what is used to prevent the the structural joints from getting wet…as popular belief would have you think, silicone is water proof…well it is not, it is highly water resistant, however water in fact destroys the bond between silicone and its surface, by slowly degrading the silicone…

running a new bead of silicone around the inside of the tank will do very little if anything in terms of keeping the tank together, especially one of this size…case in point both failed attempts to reseal this tank…perfect practice and crystal clean glass would have made no difference in the outcome of this tank…other then it may have failed catastrophically instead of springing a leak…

the only way to fix this tank is tear it completely apart, and clean the glass to as new standards and start from scratch reassembling the tank…the is no two ways about it…

that said the amount of time and labour involved to properly do this job, not to mention razor blades, acetone, steel wool paper towels, bandaids, and silicone, combined with likely having to buy proper clamps to hold the tank in place etc...will far out weigh the time and effort involved in buying a new tank…

i would say if you have a good 150 hours to kill and about 150 bucks you could do it no problem, otherwise save your time money and sanity, sell it as a lizard tank and put the 100 bucks toward a new tank.

anyone who tells you running a new bead around the inside of this tank has no idea what they are talking about, it is simply not that easy…unless you have a very good insurance policy

[tkeracer619]

When I lost a seam on my 150 I sort of cheated when re-assembling... I took the glass panes to a local glass door manufacturer where they broke 3" off the top for me to use as the eurobraces. I paid them $5 an edge to run the glass across the grinder. Way easier for the remnants of the silicone...

Tear down, clean up, supplies, glass work, and labor I was in it for about $150 and about 40 hours. I had no job and needed a large sump for my 360g so it seemed like the logical thing to do at the time.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/638/37tu4.jpg

[NanoReefWanabe]

When I lost a seam on my 150 I sort of cheated when re-assembling... I took the glass panes to a local glass door manufacturer where they broke 3" off the top for me to use as the eurobraces. I paid them $5 an edge to run the glass across the grinder. Way easier for the remnants of the silicone...

Tear down, clean up, supplies, glass work, and labor I was in it for about $150 and about 40 hours. I had no job and needed a large sump for my 360g so it seemed like the logical thing to do at the time.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/638/37tu4.jpg
oh gosh i hope you didn't use that ge silicone to put the tank back together…that silicone is not a structural adhesive it is simply a sealant...

[uncleof6]

oh gosh i hope you didn't use that ge silicone to put the tank back together…that silicone is not a structural adhesive it is simply a sealant...

That is why GE got sued, because the label on that tube of silicone— which is GE012A, used to say: "Aquarium Silicone." Folks got tired of an "Aquarium Silicone" creating tanks that would self-destruct, up to a year later, and bit longer in a few cases. So far so good, just ain't gunna get it with consumer grade sealants.

[tkeracer619]

Yes, 6 years and shows no signs of age or hardening. Same with my display. I am not concerned. Ansys shows 6.3 as the lowest safety factor using GE1 material properties but I didn't know that at the time I built it. If I were to do it all over again(I am) I would use rtv103 but so far so good. I'm not so sure the tensile strength is the weak link on most builds unless the glass is thin and the bracing sucks.... or the installer screws it up. Maybe I just got a good case :lol:

[uncleof6]

Yes, 6 years and shows no signs of age or hardening. Same with my display. I am not concerned. Ansys shows 6.3 as the lowest safety factor using GE1 material properties but I didn't know that at the time I built it. If I were to do it all over again I would use rtv103 but so far so good. I'm not so sure the tensile strength is the weak link on most builds unless the glass is thin and the bracing sucks.... or the installer screws it up. Maybe I just got a good case :lol:

Congrats on a successful build...

You did not get a good case, you simply used monster seals on the inside... and you are right, the tensile strength of a given silicone is irrelevant to holding a tank together. Tanks are held together by silicone's weakest property: adhesive strength.

Things that are known about GE012A:

The adhesive strength of GE012A is so low it is unpublished. This is very typical of consumer grade silicones that are intended as sealants, not for any structural purpose.

100s of tanks, (enough to bring a class action suit) self destructed, when constructed using GE012A, and hence it is very clearly labled "Not for aquarium use." GE012A is the only silicone that actually states that. Most other lables state "Not for use underwater," which is also true, but not related to the GE012A incidents. "That suit, predates the internet.

Tanks built using a higher grade consumer grade silicone (from Dow Corning) and distributed by AGA/Aqueon labled as "Aquarium Silicone" hyped as the "same silicone used to build our tanks," self-destruct on a rather regular basis. Here is an example:

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/IMG_0964-small.jpg

The interesting thing is, though they claim "the same.... " when I went through their facilities, there were drums and cartons of RTV108.

Since this adhesive figure is unpublished, ANSYS can give you any answer it sees fit, however, if the proper parameters are not given, the answer is going to be wrong. You probably left a number of things out, including the experience of the builder. Why would I question the "builder?" Because the builder grabbed a tube that was convenient, rather than a suitable adhesive silicone. I been building tanks for 20 years on a pro level, and I knew about silicone when I started out. So the 6.3 safety factor is meaningless, sorry to say.

Ignorance is bliss, so they say, you did not know. You stated you would use an industrial grade adhesive the next time. So I ain't knockin on ya too hard. ;) But as soon as this sort of thing is posted, the next fella that comes along is going to say: "Racer used it...." and the debate will be off and running again. It is the same with anything. Just because some folks get lucky, does not mean it is a good idea, does not mean it is safe, and it does not mean their tank will not self destruct.

For sumps, and small tanks, Six of one, and a half dozen of the other.

[tkeracer619]

An engineer I worked with a while back did it but he no longer has the data or I'd gladly post it. We pulled some apart and did the testing ourselves because we couldn't find advertised specs for it, I have more faith in his work than the silicone. I work in an industry with a 1.3 safety factor so regardless if it has any value or not it helps me sleep seeing a number higher than 5.

For the record I didn't grab what was convenient, I grabbed what was cheap and what other people told me to use. The AGA stuff was the only other option presented to me. At that point in the game I still thought the actual tanks were expensive and I had no job... hell I shouldn't have been doing this, at least it kept me off the sauce.

You question the builder about as often as you remind us of your occupation so I won't hold it against you(I just know who to bug when the time comes). You've been doing it to me for years(for my own good), hoping you will give me some more detailed advice on my next build so I don't have to get a lesson about what I did wrong 8 years from now :beer:.

I don't see any silicone in that pic... I much prefer monster beads ;)

[Useful_Idiot]

You did not get a good case, you simply used monster seals on the inside... and you are right, the tensile strength of a given silicone is irrelevant to holding a tank together.

If I could hijack for a minute. I have a leaking 75 gallon that has 1/2 glass and no center brace. It would make an awesome sump, would a good silicone covering 2" wide around the seams seal it? I can't understand why it wouldn't. But there's a lot of things I don't understand.

[uncleof6]

If I could hijack for a minute. I have a leaking 75 gallon that has 1/2 glass and no center brace. It would make an awesome sump, would a good silicone covering 2" wide around the seams seal it? I can't understand why it wouldn't. But there's a lot of things I don't understand.


No it won't, despite what is stated above, you need the structural seam to hold the tank together. Once that is compromised, the tank is done, and is unsafe to fill with water. Racer, used the wrong material, and based on the dubious results of a program fed the wrong information, was very lucky. Don't assume that your luck will turn out the same. Rebuild the tank properly, or use it for a reptile tank.

[tkeracer619]

How are the results incorrect if we tested the silicone and used our real world data? Luck had a lot to do with the success but it has nothing to do with the output data. Do you refuse to believe i could get those numbers on a eurobraced sump made from 1/2" and only filled with 13" of water? Or do you simply not agree with fea software in general because you cant input how bad someone is at putting down a bead of silicone?

Who stated you don't need a structural seam? I dont see that advice anywhere in this thread.

[uncleof6]

How are the results incorrect if we tested the silicone and used our real world data? Luck had a lot to do with the success but it has nothing to do with the output data. Do you refuse to believe i could get those numbers on a eurobraced sump made from 1/2" and only filled with 13" of water? Or do you simply not agree with fea software in general because you cant input how bad someone is at putting down a bead of silicone?

Who stated you don't need a structural seam? I dont see that advice anywhere in this thread.

Yes I do disagree/challange the results... an individual asked "can I..." the answer was no you can't, despite what has been said about monster seals... ...I will leave it at that.

[Useful_Idiot]

Ok thanks uncle. I was hoping I could get away with it but if there's a significant risk I'll pass.