Dr tims timeline

[banjowalker]

I haven't found a forum that has a time line after using dr tims so I thought I would start one. I am almost 72 hours in, and my nitrites are still showing 0, but my ammonia has dropped significantly from 3ppm to .5 ppm within 48 hours. I have spoke with a fellow reefer that advised his did the exact same thing with Dr tims. Will keep this updated.

[banjowalker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/01/b3887a7f74d69ca069f6939129077c6a.jpg72 hours after adding dr tims.

[Potsy]

With dry rock, Dr. Tim's, and ammonia additive, my cycle took roughly a week with peak ammonia level of about 2 ppm. 50 gallon reef tank.

[banjowalker]

With dry rock, Dr. Tim's, and ammonia additive, my cycle took roughly a week with peak ammonia level of about 2 ppm. 50 gallon reef tank.
That Is why I am documenting it every step of the way. I am doing it exactly the same way you are. Did you dose ammonia daily?

[banjowalker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/01/e4112e477596b096e45baaa258b8f3fe.jpgadded seachem reef buffer. Ph is looking much better

[00101]

I did something similar when starting. I put all my rock and sand in a bucket, filled it with salt water and a pump then dosed ammonia every day. Took maybe a week to grow enough bacteria to be able to process per day an equivalent amount of ammonia to 3ppm in my tank.

After that I just dumped the 3 or so gallons of water and put the rock and sand in the tank.

[banjowalker]

I did something similar when starting. I put all my rock and sand in a bucket, filled it with salt water and a pump then dosed ammonia every day. Took maybe a week to grow enough bacteria to be able to process per day an equivalent amount of ammonia to 3ppm in my tank.

After that I just dumped the 3 or so gallons of water and put the rock and sand in the tank.
That's an interesting way to do it haven't heard of doing that

[banjowalker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/03/40d4ef69ea7de3f7b60bf443459dd0b6.jpgDay 5. Excuse the ammonia. I was dosing with the Dr tims ammonia bottle and the cap came off and dumped 3/4 of the bottle in. Any suggestions on this? I have already done 30 gallons of water changes. Should I just let it go down naturally or keep doing water changes? Good news is the nitrites are still rising so the cycle is still working, just don't know how it will affect everything with the high ammonia

[maddmaxx]

normally you dont do water changes during a cycle...

[m0nkie]

Monitor it.. extreme high ammonia can stall a cycle. Dr. Tim said in that case, get ammonia down to remmended level with water change.. but if it is slowly going down, i would just leave it. You want your tank to be able to handle huge ammonia spike. The more it can handle, the safer you will be at stocking fish. Just takes a little longer to cycle

[m0nkie]

And stop adding buffers. It wont do you any good right now. Ph is irrelevant during cycle.

[banjowalker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/05/9664691e4688eeb6ca13d3b22614a621.jpgTrites are rising, hopefully the ammonia is continuing to fall. Day 7

[Potsy]

That Is why I am documenting it every step of the way. I am doing it exactly the same way you are. Did you dose ammonia daily?

No, I just got it up to that level and let the bacteria do the work. After all levels came down, I dosed a little more (about 1ppm) to see how quickly it would come down and it never registered with a test kit.

[banjowalker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/06/4e086e8e1137eb86b627d590cb6eebab.jpgI'm at a loss for words. This is 2 days with no water changes or anything. The ammonia has dropped that much! Trites and trates are also rising. Maybe that much ammonia was a good thing

[Potsy]

-6 ppm of ammonia in two days. Yup, Dr. Tim's certainly works.

[banjowalker]

-6 ppm of ammonia in two days. Yup, Dr. Tim's certainly works.
That's what I'm thinkin exactly

[banjowalker]

Ammonia continues to drop. Trites and trates going up alot so the cycle is in full swing! Won't be long till my ammonia is a 0http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/08/2fd4cb74fb85e12a7185899a511dc8be.jpg

[banjowalker]

And here's the trates test http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/08/bb19d4872a17a2090ba9d1ae833e2f6e.jpg

[Devi]

I was excited to see this because I picked up a bottle of Tim's for my new tank, but I feel your experiment is now skewed because you added buffers and then did water changes. I feel if you would have left the cycle to continue without interference you would have gotten completely different results. Has anyone here used Tim's per instructions? If so can you PM me to let me know how it went? I am using all dry rock and live sand.

[banjowalker]

I was excited to see this because I picked up a bottle of Tim's for my new tank, but I feel your experiment is now skewed because you added buffers and then did water changes. I feel if you would have left the cycle to continue without interference you would have gotten completely different results. Has anyone here used Tim's per instructions? If so can you PM me to let me know how it went? I am using all dry rock and live sand.
I was referred this product by someone who has used it successfully on 2 tanks with dead rock and dead sand. He now has a thriving reef and he has never once had an ammonia, or nitrite spike to my knowledge. His tank is over a year old and he put fish in the day of I think. Even after adding buffer and doing water changes, this product works imho. It dropped my ammonia over 6ppm in two days and again in 2 more days. I believe this product works, though some may disagree

[banjowalker]

Day 11. Ammonia almost all the way to 0 from having ammonia over 10ppm. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/09/bf1e5a5d4b318cf58ee7139e75196a66.jpg

[banjowalker]

Day 13http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/11/2be7ae76d51360896b3dae9af9d61363.jpg

[Devi]

Ugh those API tests...Can never quite figure out what color they are. I tried sunlight, indoor, a friend...LOL Ended up buying a red reef kit. Much better. Cost me a freaking arm and a leg though. Hey I am about to dump a bottle of this crap in my tank should I post my findings here or start my own thread?

[banjowalker]

Ugh those API tests...Can never quite figure out what color they are. I tried sunlight, indoor, a friend...LOL Ended up buying a red reef kit. Much better. Cost me a freaking arm and a leg though. Hey I am about to dump a bottle of this crap in my tank should I post my findings here or start my own thread?
I'd love to see it! I think it definitely sped mine up considering my ammonia attack and all. The api kit is terrible, and especially when I'm partially colorblind.

[banjowalker]

Day 13 trateshttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/11/203fcf90029d58fd97e67f2ad585c92a.jpg

[Devi]

Holy crap you are flying along. Well I dumped it in tonight. Lights off, just pumps. I used the whole bottle. Temp right around 80 not that that matters at the moment. I'll use my API kit so we can compare.

[Devi]

So made my first sort of mistake. I used superglue to hold my pump down in my trashcan. I let it dry for thirty min then filled it up. My tank is cloudy and has chunks of either plastic or superglue in it. It's Also coating the glass. Threw some sponge in to suck it up. I've been using this glue forever just not this much. Lesson learned.

[m0nkie]

So made my first sort of mistake. I used superglue to hold my pump down in my trashcan. I let it dry for thirty min then filled it up. My tank is cloudy and has chunks of either plastic or superglue in it. It's Also coating the glass. Threw some sponge in to suck it up. I've been using this glue forever just not this much. Lesson learned.

are you pouring new water into tank with sand? that would make the tank cloudy. I dont think superglue can make a water cloudy. I've used a whole tube of superglue gel in my tank

I use BSI Ethyl Cyanoacrylate Gel. get it on amazon. cheaper than superglue gel and dries fast in water. one stick last much longer than store bought superglue gel

[Devi]

Yup it was Loctite with Cyanocrylate, in a gel form. Well then if it is not the superglue what the hell is it? I used it for a water change in my coral QT tank and it was very cloudy as well, but since I have filtration running it cleared with in 10 minutes. It's like milky white inside the mix bucket. It was a new bigger bucket but I rinsed it well and gave it a good wash with vinegar. The salt is still my normal brand but it was a new batch. Other than the milky appearance it has a sheen like an oil slick on top with small white bits that when you net them out they form a larger piece. The tank is still milky today although not as bad because I added a few layers of foam and that foam is full of this white plastic like crap. It is also stuck to the sides of the tank. A layer of white, when I scrape it off it forms more white chunks! In all my years this is new to me. So today going to a food supply store and buying a new bucket, a better pump and a bigger heater and no f****** superglue!

P.S. Dr. Tims says add fish in 48 hours. Well after 24, no nothing. A whole lot of nothing. Cycling hasn't started. Wondering if it's this white stuff screwing everything up. Corals and critters unaffected in the other tank.

[MRCYCS805]

Could be a bacterial bloom happened to me with dr tims took almost 4 days to clear up looked foggy like someone dumped a cup of milk in there

[banjowalker]

Yup it was Loctite with Cyanocrylate, in a gel form. Well then if it is not the superglue what the hell is it? I used it for a water change in my coral QT tank and it was very cloudy as well, but since I have filtration running it cleared with in 10 minutes. It's like milky white inside the mix bucket. It was a new bigger bucket but I rinsed it well and gave it a good wash with vinegar. The salt is still my normal brand but it was a new batch. Other than the milky appearance it has a sheen like an oil slick on top with small white bits that when you net them out they form a larger piece. The tank is still milky today although not as bad because I added a few layers of foam and that foam is full of this white plastic like crap. It is also stuck to the sides of the tank. A layer of white, when I scrape it off it forms more white chunks! In all my years this is new to me. So today going to a food supply store and buying a new bucket, a better pump and a bigger heater and no f****** superglue!

P.S. Dr. Tims says add fish in 48 hours. Well after 24, no nothing. A whole lot of nothing. Cycling hasn't started. Wondering if it's this white stuff screwing everything up. Corals and critters unaffected in the other tank.
Did you add a source of ammonia with the Dr tims? It seemed to start within a day when I added ammonia. Idk about the clouding. I had that happen with my sand when I used oolite but I changed to larger sand. I haven't had a bacterial bloom.

[Devi]

OK new development. Water in mix bucket has particles in it but is not cloudy. I'm going to ignore it for now. Dr Tim's says just dump in, does not mention adding ammonia. Would that not be false advertising? Thanks for all your help.

[m0nkie]

I don't think you quite get the product. To cycle, you need a food source (ammonia, or raw shrimp). When you toss that food source in, ammonia converting bacteria will start to bloom. When they convert ammonia into nitrite, the nitrite converting bacteria will bloom, converting them to nitrate. Then you do water change to get rid of some nitrate. thus finishing the cycle.

Dr tim one and only is a bacteria in a bottle. It contains his own ammonia and nitrite converting bacteria. However, there is NO food source. So you either do it naturally by tossing food in, or dose pure ammonia. dose your tank to 2ppm. I believe dr tim made it very clear of that in his instructions.

[m0nkie]

and I really believe something else is making your tank cloudy. I've used Loctite.. used few bottles in my 100gal before at once. The extra ones might flow to top and form the solid white crap, but never cloud my tank

did you start with dry rocks or live rocks? if it's live rocks, the die offs would have become the food source, and the cloudiness is probably bacteria bloom

and did you let saltwater sit for 24hrs before using? new salt water sometimes gets cloudy awhile

[banjowalker]

I don't think you quite get the product. To cycle, you need a food source (ammonia, or raw shrimp). When you toss that food source in, ammonia converting bacteria will start to bloom. When they convert ammonia into nitrite, the nitrite converting bacteria will bloom, converting them to nitrate. Then you do water change to get rid of some nitrate. thus finishing the cycle.

Dr tim one and only is a bacteria in a bottle. It contains his own ammonia and nitrite converting bacteria. However, there is NO food source. So you either do it naturally by tossing food in, or dose pure ammonia. dose your tank to 2ppm. I believe dr tim made it very clear of that in his instructions.
+1 I purchased the bottle of Dr tims ammonia and dosed with that as well. M0nkie has way more experience than me obviously, but in my experience and basing off my knowledge of the cycling process you have to continually feed the bacteria to continue with the cycle

[Devi]

OK so the directions on the Tim's bottle are lame. The website however says to do exactly as you two have. So I began dosing. I used some rough math but still started slow. 2ml at a time, wait an hour, then test. I'm almost to 3ppm. Tested my salt mix bucket and calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium are almost off the charts. That could be the chunks then? Like I said, no longer worried about it. I am using no live rock, this is reef cleaners rock. I rinsed it well. I let the tank settle over night before turning on all the pumps. As I have been adding ammonia, the water is clearing. Sort of weird huh? I used this weird chunky water on my coral QT and no one seems effected so I put it out of my mind. Crazy high readings though. I did the test twice using two different kits, they were identical, just to make sure. I tested my QT tank this morning and readings were normal. So just my mix bucket is on the high side. I hate new salt mix. I normally get it in the buckets, this one was in a bag, so who knows.

[m0nkie]

you don't need to measure alk, mag or calc until you have corals inside the tank. even then, you shouldn't be far off. just keep measuring ammonia and follow direction. I wouldn't even measure nitrite because eventually it will be 0.

[acabgd]

How do you measure salinity?

[Devi]

No I measured the Ca, Alk, and Mag in my mix bucket. I am trying to figure out the reason my mix bucket has huge chunks of white crap floating about. I was checking to make sure I didn't get a bad batch of salt. I measure salinity using a refractometer, but I also have two hydrometers. One is an Instant Ocean, the other a Kent. Lately I have been using all three. Then I take the average of the three, but in my established tanks I just use the refractometer.

Also, I am not testing for anything in this tank but ammonia, trying to reach 3ppm. Going slow so I don't over do it. Not my first rodeo. First time using a bottle and a dry rock cycle. All other times I have used live rock.

[Devi]

OK so I used the wrong damn ammonia. Not worried. I went to Ace Hardware and got some new stuff just in case. Did my first water test. Ammonia was at 2ppm, Nitrites, at .25. So it's inching along. Today is another test day, about every two days. So we will see where we are at.

[banjowalker]

OK so I used the wrong damn ammonia. Not worried. I went to Ace Hardware and got some new stuff just in case. Did my first water test. Ammonia was at 2ppm, Nitrites, at .25. So it's inching along. Today is another test day, about every two days. So we will see where we are at.
Sounds good keep me posted. What was wrong with the ammonia you got?

[whiteshark]

Sounds good keep me posted. What was wrong with the ammonia you got?

I would guess it had surfactants in it.

[Devi]

Yup. I really could give a hoot though. I mean, I should most likely panic, tear down everything, rinse a million times, or I could just realize surfactants do not bind and are only in the water column, and I have to do a freaking giant water change anyway at the end of the cycle, and once all filtration is running the minute amount in the water will have no effect on anything. I should have just used the bloody freaking shrimp. Anyway did a water test last night, everything is spot on. Exactly as I would expect it to be. I will post real numbers when I get home. At this rate, maybe two weeks left tops. Well three.

P.S. I guess we will answer the age old question about surfactants. The fact I am seeing a cycle here already proves my particular ammonia with surfactant is not harmful to bacteria. My Xenia have selflessly came forward to be the first inhabitants of the tank after it cycles. You know, for science. :spin1:

[banjowalker]

Yup. I really could give a hoot though. I mean, I should most likely panic, tear down everything, rinse a million times, or I could just realize surfactants do not bind and are only in the water column, and I have to do a freaking giant water change anyway at the end of the cycle, and once all filtration is running the minute amount in the water will have no effect on anything. I should have just used the bloody freaking shrimp. Anyway did a water test last night, everything is spot on. Exactly as I would expect it to be. I will post real numbers when I get home. At this rate, maybe two weeks left tops. Well three.

P.S. I guess we will answer the age old question about surfactants. The fact I am seeing a cycle here already proves my particular ammonia with surfactant is not harmful to bacteria. My Xenia have selflessly came forward to be the first inhabitants of the tank after it cycles. You know, for science. :spin1:
Haha good luck man! Just added my first fish today. Dr tims did the trick for me

[Devi]

So I know I was going to post numbers I will, so on Monday ammonia was low and nitrites were both below 2ppm. So I dosed ammonia up to 3ppm, as per instructions on website. Last night Ammonia was below 2ppm but my nitrites were above 5ppm! So per website instructions I did a 25% water change, which goes against everything I have been told about cycling. Tonight after my stupid party, I really just want to be home with the tank and Dragon Age, I will test again.

[m0nkie]

When your ammonia hits 0 and nitrate is high. Dose ammonia to 2ppm. If in 24hrs the ammonia goes to 0, and turns to nitrate, you are done with the cycle.

If it takes more than a day, keep cycling and keep adding ammonia

[banjowalker]

When your ammonia hits 0 and nitrate is high. Dose ammonia to 2ppm. If in 24hrs the ammonia goes to 0, and turns to nitrate, you are done with the cycle.

If it takes more than a day, keep cycling and keep adding ammonia
+1 this is what I did. If The nitrites are high the nitrates should start to rise. My nitrites almost disappeared and nitrates didn't get that high, but I did a large water change before I put my clowns in to be sure

[Devi]

So on 12/15, nitrites were .25, ammonia 2ppm. 12/17 Nitrites was 1.0 ammonia 1ppm. Dosed Ammonia room 3ppm. 12/18 nitrites were 5+, ammonia 2ppm. Did a water change to lower Nitrites and higher Ph.

[Devi]

So today, ammonia is .50, Nitrites way over 5, nitrates 30. So another water change today. It says if Nitrites are over 5, do a wc.

[Devi]

I'm so confused. It would appear it's cycled. So I add ammonia and everything sky rockets again, so I do a wc per instructions, and then start over. I am going to forget these instructions and do it the way I know works.

[acabgd]

Stop adding ammonia

[m0nkie]

Low ammonia, high nitrite and high nitrate. You were almost done cycling until you added more ammonia.

And stop doing wc. You are just prolonging the cycle. Let ammonia go down to 0. Then wait for nitrite to go down to 0. Measure nitrate. If you have high nitrate and 0 ammonia/nitrite, you are cycled.

Dose ammonia 1 more time to 2ppm and see if it can go to 0 in 24 hrs.. this is a test to see if your tank is really cycled. Only do this after you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate.

Anyways.. stop dosing ammonia and stop wc...

[m0nkie]

The instruction tell you to wc because too high of ammonia or nitrite can stall the cycle. You can tell your cycle has stalled if ammonia or nitrite does not go down. 5ppm is not that bad imo. As long as it goes down, you are fine.

[Devi]

OK so I gave up on Drs. Tim's instructions which were utter bullocks. M0nkie like you say, if the damn instructions say, "Only do water change if cycle stalls", then that would be clear. They don't. So I wrote them an email, and they sent, OMG real f-ing instructions, NOTHING like the website has! So I am officially done with that company.

OK so on to the good stuff. Once I forgot all that BS and remembered basic biology and chem, I LEFT THE DAMN TANK ALONE! LOL! So ammonia dropped almost overnight. Nitrites spiked like they should and peaked at around 5ppm, and have steadily been going down. So it's been about four days now, and I am almost at zero for nitrites, and nitrates are around 80. Luckily PH is stable. This would have been done a week ago if not for their stupid internet instructions. Or if they explained the why on the same page as the instructions versus having to go to another area of the website, or JUST PUT THEM ON THE DAMN BOTTLE!

I suppose it's mostly my fault.

[m0nkie]

lol dont worry. I tried to follow instruction to the dot the first time and messed up. I kept dosing ammonia every other day until someone told me to stop. By then my ammonia was at 8ppm+. I thought my cycle stalled. But it started going down after 3 weeks.

but at least that gave me a super cycle. my tank can handle anything afterwards. haven't seen ammonia ever since

[dwebster86]

OK so I gave up on Drs. Tim's instructions which were utter bullocks. M0nkie like you say, if the damn instructions say, "Only do water change if cycle stalls", then that would be clear. They don't. So I wrote them an email, and they sent, OMG real f-ing instructions, NOTHING like the website has! So I am officially done with that company.

OK so on to the good stuff. Once I forgot all that BS and remembered basic biology and chem, I LEFT THE DAMN TANK ALONE! LOL! So ammonia dropped almost overnight. Nitrites spiked like they should and peaked at around 5ppm, and have steadily been going down. So it's been about four days now, and I am almost at zero for nitrites, and nitrates are around 80. Luckily PH is stable. This would have been done a week ago if not for their stupid internet instructions. Or if they explained the why on the same page as the instructions versus having to go to another area of the website, or JUST PUT THEM ON THE DAMN BOTTLE!

I suppose it's mostly my fault.
What instructions did they send you?

[banjowalker]

What instructions did they send you?
I Googled instructions and followed them off the website. Even after my accidental dose of ammonia my tank was cycled fairly quickly. it is doing great now. Had an algae outbreak but such is having a reef tank I guess. Gfo and patience

[asl4me76]

I think you are just doing nothing but confusing yourself. As a result, you keep throwing your tank into a cycle. I've read the instructions and they're pretty straight forward. Maybe just wasn't paying attention? Also - you were focused on some various other variables and etc. As a result, it took from your actual experience in my opinion of Dr. Tim's.

[Potsy]

I didn't have any trouble with the instructions either which, in my case, indicated that I was to add ammonia until I reached a certain level (2 ppm or something low like that) and wait for the bacteria to do its work. I checked my levels every few days and in a week I was done.

[Devi]

The directions they sent me were 100% straight forward. The directions online are not. They tell you to do one thing then tell you not to that thing! I'm glad you all had an easy time. I really was like DA FUQ? The instructions they sent are straight forward. Pour in contents of bottle, (then it has the measurements and explains you can't over dose), use enough ammonia to read 3ppm, (then has a calculator link), bacteria does not need to be fed every day. Then goes on to explain what to look for in testing. None of that day 4, 5 6, crap. LOL!

Now I am also cycling a 29 gallon QT tank. I used Instant Ocean's Biospira. It is day five, tank is cycled. I saw ammonia creep up slightly, then went down to zero caught the tail end of the nitrites, then all zero except for a slight nitrate reading I did a water change. Dosed ammonia to 3ppm, and checked it this morning, zeros across the board. So maybe Dr. Tim should realize we ain't all drs, and dumb it down for us noobs. Instant Ocean did!

OK so anyway Dr. Tims. Day before yesterday had zero ammonia, and nitrites, 80 or so nitrates. Dosed ammonia to 2ppm, as suggested to see what it can handle, today it is sitting at 1ppm for ammonia, and 1 for nitrites. So it still can't handle a small load in 24 hours. Thinking of dumping a bottle of Instant Ocean Biospira in there since it worked so well on the QT. I almost broke down and moved all my live rock from my old tank into this one just to be done with it, but I really wanted to try a tank with dry.

[Devi]

Finally. Finally freaking cycled. I will never do this again. Live rock the next time for sure! I fired up the GFO reactor and the skimmer just to get them going and broken in.

So that stupid Xenia I hate are going in first. If they die so be it.

[banjowalker]

Finally. Finally freaking cycled. I will never do this again. Live rock the next time for sure! I fired up the GFO reactor and the skimmer just to get them going and broken in.

So that stupid Xenia I hate are going in first. If they die so be it.
Be careful running gfo. My tank is too clean right now and my corals are losing color because of it. My bio load isn't heavy enough for gfo

[Devi]

You know Dr. Tim's said that same thing on the bottle. They said start slow, so I have two tablespoons in there now. I'm still reading nitrates and I have a bit of a bacteria bloom, mostly on the inside of the glass, but I moved all the corals over, the shrimp, and my five hermits and three snails. I'm feeding the hermits and snails algae wafers and shrimp to the shrimp. Everything is doing really well. Acclimating to light but they seem to love the new tank. That stupid snail of Mine did a run of the whole tank. 5 to 40 gallons, must have blown his mind. So far using ammonia with surfacants has had no effect. It did however make my Skimmer hard to dial in at first.

[banjowalker]

You know Dr. Tim's said that same thing on the bottle. They said start slow, so I have two tablespoons in there now. I'm still reading nitrates and I have a bit of a bacteria bloom, mostly on the inside of the glass, but I moved all the corals over, the shrimp, and my five hermits and three snails. I'm feeding the hermits and snails algae wafers and shrimp to the shrimp. Everything is doing really well. Acclimating to light but they seem to love the new tank. That stupid snail of Mine did a run of the whole tank. 5 to 40 gallons, must have blown his mind. So far using ammonia with surfacants has had no effect. It did however make my Skimmer hard to dial in at first.
Good to hear you're having success.

[Devi]

Yeah so everything is predictably doing well, in fact I don't think I needed to acclimate to light. Par 38 to a Kessil seemed a huge jump but I bumped it up to normal and got full extension. Adding fish today.