How long should I wait?

[dburt520]

I recently got a Mandarin goby (4 days ago). She rarely comes out... I have a good pod population and when she does come out, she eats for a bit and then goes back into her "cave". She doesn't stray to far from her area, and I see her out once, maybe twice an evening.

How long should I give it before I starting thinking something isn't right? She is healthy, was qt'd, kind of eats frozen but does roam the rocks close to her cave for pods.

I did alot of research on this fish (in fact this one fish made me get into the hobby), and I waited a uear before my purchase. My tank is an SPS dominated tank (high flow), but I read alot of information that said they do well in high flow.

The tank has a pair of smaller (a year old) Ocellaris clowns, and a Kole Tang. The Kole tang doesn't have any interest in anything other than pecking the rocks all day for algea and since I introduced the mandarin I have noticed the clowns hang out above the mandarins cave. I have not seen anyone picking on anyone but maybe the mandarin is just intimated as the clowns try to get close and check it out when it does come out.

Normal? Am I to worried about nothing?

[twon8]

Yes you are worried about nothing. Unless you see aggression between the fish I wouldn't worry.

[dcc365]

try give brine shrimp for her, my mandrin likes it and become very active

[MondoBongo]

she is constantly pecking and foraging around her area though?

i wouldn't worry too much about it as long as her feeding habits seem normal. it took my mandy a while to start to be more brazen, and even still if someone walks up to the tank too quickly she will float away from view.

i noticed with mine that she tends to work in zones. i'm not sure if this has to do with shifting food populations, or her decimating a single area of the tank and then moving on while it repopulates, but she tends to pick an area of the tank, and stick there for some time. usually between 1 - 4 weeks. the tank is a 75 gallon.

so for example:

i have my largest pile of dense rocks and cave structure on the left side of my tank. she will typically be mostly, although not entirely, hunting around that area. meaning that is where i will see her most when i watch the tank. then usually after the aforementioned 1 - 4 week timeline, i will notice her concentrating more on the right side, or the center area of my tank and rock work.

now i'm not sure if this is just where i happen to notice her for given time periods, but i have been noticing this behavior in her for quite some time now. usually the common area is about 18" cubed or so.

so give your mandy time. four days isn't very long to get settled in and acclimated to the new digs.

as far as the flow, my mandy tends to stay to the mid to lower flow areas of my tank. however the mandy in the main display at my LFS will "surf" on the current from the powerhead. it's fun to watch. she will swim up in the water column, catch the flow a few inches in front of the powerhead, and then zip to the other side of the tank, so flow isn't usually a problem for them, but it depends on the individual fish how much they choose to interact with it.

i wouldn't be concerned about the kole or the clowns. when i had my kole he never bothered my mandy, and my clowns rarely give her a second thought, even when she decides to make a rare voyage up in to their corner to peck on the glass. it never hurts to keep an eye out for aggression regardless, but those two types of fish are pretty much at the bottom of my worry list as far as bullying goes.

as dcc suggested, it certainly won't hurt to try to entice her a bit with supplemental feeding, but as long as she is looking good, well fed, and doing her usual hunt and peck, i wouldn't be too concerned.

[dburt520]

Thanks for the replies.

I feed the tank a 1/4 - 1/2 cube of frozen brine or mysis a day and when I feed I turn my powerheads off. She will peak out and act interested and I've seen her snag a piece or two as it floats by. I had the lfs feed her (with the foods I like to use actually) and she did eat some in the store.

She does look healthy, and does eat when she comes out.

My concern was all of the posts regarding the mandarins normal habits of scouring the rocks for pods 24/7... I am just not seeing that yet.

[MondoBongo]

is she just sitting in one spot when she is in her area not doing anything?

[snorvich]

is she just sitting in one spot when she is in her area not doing anything?

If this is the case, it sounds as if it may have been collected with cyanide. If it is active and actively feeding, no problems.

[dburt520]

Well... I guess I'm confused now. When she goes down into her cave she just sits there from what I can see/tell. When she does come out or when I can see her she is actively pecking at the rocks.

[snorvich]

Well... I guess I'm confused now. When she goes down into her cave she just sits there from what I can see/tell. When she does come out or when I can see her she is actively pecking at the rocks.

Ok, let us try it this way. When she is "out", how frequently is she pecking? Give me number of pecks in two minutes.

[dburt520]

In two minutes, maybe 2 or 3 pecks? Sometimes more, sometimes none. But one thing to remember is that when she does come out and I happen to catch her out I walk up to the tank to check on her. That may be scaring her back in. Maybe I shouldn't do this?

[snorvich]

In two minutes, maybe 2 or 3 pecks?

Sounds like the fish is damaged through cyanide collection. sorry.

[dburt520]

So... what do I do now?

[snorvich]

So... what do I do now?

There is really nothing you can do. Not a treatable condition.

[MondoBongo]

sadly, as with many situations in this hobby, not much you can do.

just wait and see how it plays out. if it is cyanide, nothing you can do. if it is not, still not much you can do unless you could identify exactly what's up.

you said you did QT her. for how long? how is her physical appearance? any sharp lines on the sides or sunken stomach, or does she look nice and smooth, almost plump? is this how she behaved in QT, or is this a change in behavior?

my mandy often retreats when i approach too. she likes to be out when i am changing water to hoover up all the disturbed pods, but if i walk up to the tank she often fades away. if i want to observe her i usually have to creep up and sit quietly for a few minutes until she comes back out.

that's one of the things i like about her. everyone immediately sees the big flashy tang or the carpenter's wrasse, but you often have to pay attention for her to make an appearance.

so maybe try that for some observation? other than that i don't have any good advice for you except keep doing what you're doing, and try not to freak out.

[snorvich]

A suggestion or two when buying a mandarin. You should look for an LFS that has their mandarins in a tank not connected to their fish system. They should have a large ball of chaeto in that tank and ideally live rock. I would never buy a mandarin from an LFS that runs a low level of copper in the system containing the mandarin (a clue that it be ok would be if there is chaeto and/or live rock in the tank the mandarin resides in).

[snorvich]

sadly, as with many situations in this hobby, not much you can do.

just wait and see how it plays out. if it is cyanide, nothing you can do. if it is not, still not much you can do unless you could identify exactly what's up.



Exactly. If the fish was acquired 4 days ago, how was it quarantined?

[dburt520]

There is no "sure signs" of something wrong. Stomach is fat ( I look under the belly when the fish store brought her out in a breeder box before they bagged her), no lines, no wierd marks, nothing. Looks to be a perfectly healthy fish.

The fish was QT, d for 6 weeks. I personally didn't do it, was special ordered through the fish store where they QT all fish at their off site lab (extremely reputable store in my area with staffed marine biologists offsite, and a great QT facility). In fact, come to think of it they also have their own dive team that collects their livestock. Perhaps I can ask how the fish was caught and hope they would be truthful (they have been in business for 20+ years and I have yet to read or hear a single bad thing about them).

Maybe I'm giving them to much credit?

I'll wait it out and see how it goes. Mine sounds like it acts just like yours Mondo. If she's out and I walk up, she will hide and soon come back out.

Edit: there is Chaeto in the tank that the mandarin was taken out of. I also did a water test before I acclimated the fish (as I always do) just to see what levels I am working with (PH, SG, temp and copper). I acclimate my few fish based off of that (ie, tank ph is 8.20 and bag ph is 8.1, sg in tank is 1.026 and bag sg is 1.025 etc...) is that not good practice?

[snorvich]

I never trust anyone to quarantine, especially not an LFS. But good luck!!

[MondoBongo]

i don't get too hung up on acclimation per se.

i usually float for 15 - 30 to temp match, then match salinity if i need to, otherwise right in the pool. my LFS runs 1.026, as do i in my tank, so unless i get something that hasn't yet left the bag, my salinity already matches.

that's interesting that they have their own QT facility and divers. if you don't mind me asking, where abouts are you located?

it certainly couldn't hurt to ask them about their QT process for dragonets. many of the common QT treatments don't mesh well with these guys, so they are to be avoided, as snorvich mentioned previously copper is the big no-no. again, if it was treated, i don't know of anything you can do, so unfortunately you're still in "wait and see" mode.

4 days isn't all that long though. all fish go through a lot to get to us, but it can be especially demanding on more delicate animals like dragonets, so best of luck. hopefully all will be well.

[dburt520]

I am located in Phoenix AZ.

The store is Aquatouch (http://aquatouch.com/). If you check out their site (it is old and outdated, however there is some information on there about the Aquatouch Too, which is their offsite "Lab"). Sorry, maybe I mis spoke. I am going to assume that they don't dive/collect ALL fish, but they do dive/collect the special order rares, or harder to get fish.

I guess either way it is just a waiting game, so I will enjoy my time waiting!

Thanks for the help.

[MondoBongo]

any update on her?

[dburt520]

About the same as of now.

I'm beginning to think that my other couple of fish are intimidate her. I managed to keep them busy chasing my finger around the glass and dropping a pellet every couple of mins to keep them interested for about 20 minutes. In that 20 minutes she came out more than I've ever seen her.

Now, I am unsure what to do because my other fish don't peck or chase, so I'm unsure how to make her less timid. She is still eating, so time is my friend I guess.

Just waiting it out either way as there is not much I can do either way so I'll just let it play out and hope for the best.

[MondoBongo]

well that's encouraging at least. maybe she just needs to settle in. good luck!

[dburt520]

Well.. came home from work today only to find a mandarin that looks to have JUST died. The crabs were just getting to it. I pulled it out right away and examined it a bit. Looked extremely healthy, super fat belly, not a single mark anywhere in its color. Pretty bummed on the whole thing because I have been in the hobby for year and this is my first casualty of any livestock (coral and inverts included).

Because this single fish is what made me enter the hobby, and I spent the better part of a year ensuring my rock/fuge/tank had a pod population that would sustain one, I am determined to try again.

Moving forward...

What do I look for in a goby at the store before I purchase it? What are the signs of a cyanide poisoned fish? Looking back, this fish was extremely easy to catch by the LFS employee when I finally pulled the trigger, but did eat and move before I purchased it (I watched it for 2 days, and it ate pods from a sample of reefstew in a turkey baster as well as frozen Mysis).

[snorvich]

Well, first of all, while Aquatouch says they "quarantine", they do not publish their protocol on their website so you should not assume any of their fish are quarantined. If I do not understand what an individual or business does, I can not judge if what they are doing is effective or not.

When buying a mandarin, you want a fish that is being kept with copepods, probably with chaeto in the holding tank. A healthy one will roam around, pecking at a copepod about every 8 seconds. See post (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23305816&postcount=15) above.

Some fish are not compatible with mandarins.

[dburt520]

I have visited the "lab", so was confident in that quarantine process after seeing it and talking to the "lab" staff about their QT protocol several times... perhaps I gave them to much credit, but that's done and over with. I will do my own QT'ing on the next one (although it seems QT'ing a mandarin is sometimes tough to do, but ill read up on it and give it a shot)

When you say some fish are not compatible... I have checked this, but doesn't hurt to double check or triple check.

My tank has:
Pair of Oce Clowns
Yellow Eye Kole Tang

Is there a compatibility issue here that I am missing?

Thanks

[snorvich]

I have visited the "lab", so was confident in that quarantine process after seeing it and talking to the "lab" staff about their QT protocol several times... perhaps I gave them to much credit, but that's done and over with. I will do my own QT'ing on the next one (although it seems QT'ing a mandarin is sometimes tough to do, but ill read up on it and give it a shot)

If they publish it, the protocol will be either adequate or not. Generally, having an LFS properly quarantine any fish is going to be prohibitively expensive.

When you say some fish are not compatible... I have checked this, but doesn't hurt to double check or triple check.

My tank has:
Pair of Oce Clowns
Yellow Eye Kole Tang

Is there a compatibility issue here that I am missing? No issues there.

Thanks