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View Full Version : Herbie and Tunze driving me insane


morleyz
12/04/2014, 08:23 AM
I'm in the process of setting up a 90G DT with a 40B sump. I decided to go with a Herbie setup. After I finished plumbing about 3 weeks ago, I ran a freshwater test for 48 hours, no problems. Drained and filled with saltwater and again, I had no problems for the first 2 weeks. After the first week, I added a Tunze osmolator for top off, and the first week with that worked fine.

This past week has been nothing but frustration. I was woken up at about 3am on Saturday morning to the Tunze squealing with a high water alert. The DT was down about an inch from the level I set it. I closed the drain valve very slightly to bring the water level up. It stayed that way for all of Saturday, but then late Sunday I hear loud water splashing sounds and find the water is now about one inch above the emergency drain. Tiny adjustments to the valve (think 1/20 of a turn) just keep causing these massive swings in the water level.

Here's my setup. The 90G was used and was setup with a glass-holes overflow. I was hoping for a quieter setup, so I put in a deeper and wider overflow box for the herbie. In the overflow, I have one 90 pointing downward for my main drain and 1 90 pointing upward with a slight extension for the emergency drain. Both lines are 1.5". There is a single 90 in both lines out of the back of the bulkhead, which then flow straight down to unions. The main drain has a Spears gate valve before the union. On the other side of the union is ultra-flex PVC to make the slight bend into the sump. Return pump is an Eheim 1262. Return line is 1" PVC. There is a T in the return line to feed a refugium. I put gate valves in the return line and the feed for the refugium in case those needed adjustments, but I have only closed the refugium line some to put more flow into the DT.

This is my first experience with a Herbie and I do see others that have had trouble getting their in and out flow matched up, but most of these seem to be from using cheap ball valves or something blocking their flow. I'm hoping someone might have a suggestion as to what I can do to make my Herbie operate more consistently. The good news is I'm only 3 weeks into my cycle on this tank

FranktheTankTx
12/04/2014, 10:49 AM
I'm following along - never used a herbie but planning to do so on current set up I have.

toomany
12/04/2014, 11:37 AM
Are you getting an air bubble in your downward 90?

I run a Herbie on my 120, but I use straight standpipes .I am also running a 1262 with the return T'd and two valves, so very similar setups. Using 1 1/4"...so slightly less flow. I found that even a tiny bit of movement on the valve had an impact on the water level. It took a day or so to get everything tuned in.

Once you make a change in the valve, wait a half hour or so for the water to stabilize. That was my biggest problem. I was expecting immediate results. This caused to big of a shift in water height. Think I ended up doing small (like 1/50th) turns of the valve to get it dialed in. Runs silent without any water going down the dry pipe now.

FranktheTankTx
12/04/2014, 11:57 AM
^^^ Good catch. The 90 could be catching an air pocket which won't quite exit the pipe.

I plan on using 45s to keep the drains running vertical.

toomany
12/04/2014, 02:15 PM
^^^ Good catch. The 90 could be catching an air pocket which won't quite exit the pipe.

I plan on using 45s to keep the drains running vertical.

45's are a better option if you have the room.

OP, try pulling off the 90 on your siphon line (if you haven't glued it).

Indymann99
12/04/2014, 04:02 PM
So been running a Herbie on my 120g for 9yrs now. You need to make sure your primary drain is under the water level by about 2inches and that your drop from the weir is ~1-2 inches.

You will get variations in the water level in your overflow due to changes in barometric pressure (yeah weather)... mine fluctuates about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. Locating the drain 2in below the water level accommodates this fluctuation.

Agree with above - ditch the 90deg on the drain, not needed in full siphon drain.

Once you get it dialed in you should be fine. I haven't touched the drain valve in well over a year (I replace drain tubing - flex - every 2-3 yrs vs cleaning).

I do shut down my return every 2-4 weeks for WC. The herbie will have air in the drain line for a day or 2 (I am sure the gate valve holds air that slowly gets flushed out).

I DONT shut down the return for feeding...

morleyz
12/04/2014, 04:16 PM
So been running a Herbie on my 120g for 9yrs now. You need to make sure your primary drain is under the water level by about 2inches and that your drop from the weir is ~1-2 inches.

You will get variations in the water level in your overflow due to changes in barometric pressure (yeah weather)... mine fluctuates about 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch. Locating the drain 2in below the water level accommodates this fluctuation.

Agree with above - ditch the 90deg on the drain, not needed in full siphon drain.

Once you get it dialed in you should be fine. I haven't touched the drain valve in well over a year (I replace drain tubing - flex - every 2-3 yrs vs cleaning).

I do shut down my return every 2-4 weeks for WC. The herbie will have air in the drain line for a day or 2 (I am sure the gate valve holds air that slowly gets flushed out).

I DONT shut down the return for feeding...

Thanks for the advice...are you and the previous poster saying I should remove the 90 that's in the overflow (the downward facing 90), leaving just the open bulkhead in the overflow box? That is something I can do, I didn't glue it in so I could remove for maintenance, but I don't have a way to replumb outside the back glass to avoid the 90 there.

The top of the open bulkhead should be more than 2" below my emergency drain and the water line.

morleyz
12/05/2014, 09:21 AM
Apparently I was wrong about the water height to bulkhead height. I did remove the downward 90 and insured there was no air, but it started sucking with the 90 removed so I reinstalled it, making sure there was no air capture.

I ended up opening the valve 100% and allowing it to fully drain out, then started closing it to the point that it wasn't sucking any air and reestablished the siphon. I let it run that way for 30 minutes or so to clear out any big air pockets and then brought the water level back up to where I wanted it. It only creeped up 1/8" over night, so I'm hopeful that's just normal fluctuation and it won't continue to creep up.

You'd think that as an IT person, I would have known to just reboot.