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View Full Version : Reefkeepers poaching and selling livestock.


mandarinfanatic
12/08/2014, 07:15 AM
http://************.com/2014/12/05/south-african-harlequin-goldies-pseudanthias-connelli-time/

South African law does not allow for capture and resale of these fish. It really brings reefkeeping into disrepute. The company selling this livestock claims to only sell mac approved livestock. These fish were poached and anyone purchasing them is aiding and abetting a criminal act.

alton
12/08/2014, 07:22 AM
Link doesn't work?

mandarinfanatic
12/08/2014, 07:27 AM
Link doesn't work?
There's a reason it's shows as ****, so please don't find ways around that ;) - billsreef

alton
12/08/2014, 07:41 AM
And then my company blocks it! Must be a conspiracy

mandarinfanatic
12/08/2014, 07:47 AM
And then my company blocks it! Must be a conspiracy
Haha.

mandarinfanatic
12/08/2014, 08:48 AM
jake adams wrote the article so I am confused how such a reputable person would write an article on poached livestock?

nemo's janitor
12/08/2014, 04:58 PM
The receiving of the stock is well advertised by DeJong marine life. This would indicate that the stock is legitimately received.

What DeJong needs to do is provide the countries export permit, collection permit and country of origin certificates.

This is going to be an interesting one.

nemo's janitor
12/08/2014, 05:17 PM
I think it important to understand that reporting is to share news. Not to decide what is right or wrong. That is up to the audience.

Now to get the info on how the specimens were legally captured and exported.

billsreef
12/09/2014, 06:01 AM
The company selling this livestock claims to only sell mac approved livestock.

Amazes me that companies still go with that "MAC approved" bit. MAC has been defunct for a couple of years now.

Vilas
12/10/2014, 04:29 AM
I have a south African collection permit. It is explicitly clear. The laws in this country do not allow you to sell so much as a grain of sand from the sea. You can't trade it, donate it, or barter with it.
You can catch certain species using certain methods for your own tank, with proper permits (separate permit for fish, inverts, plants, molluscs, etc) as long as you keep a detailed log of collections and deaths.

So while they could be legally captured, they could not be even given away legally. I'm amazed that anyone would risk it. The penalties are quite severe.

billsreef
12/10/2014, 05:24 AM
Vilas,

Do you know if there is a chance the species can be found in the waters of country bordering South Africa that might allow for collection and export?

This anthias bit reminds of the Japanese Acan craze, where either the Acans were smuggled, or the origin of Japan was an outright lie.

Vilas
12/10/2014, 05:43 AM
I believe com.ercial sale is also illegal in Mozambique. The waters on the west coast are brutally cold. Above moz is Tanzania and Kenya - not sure of Tanzania, but sale is legal in Kenya. Also unsure of their range. Let me go find my trusty book.

Vilas
12/10/2014, 05:50 AM
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/10/2b55f7e82caa92340c530d796dd7ec4c.jpg

This book claims they're endemic to KwaZulu natal - my neck of the woods. This area is a province in sa, which is somewhat near Mozambique. I am unsure if collection for sale is legal in moz, but I hear it is illegal.

To me, endemic to kzn means they're find in my neighbourhood, nowhere else.

Now I want to go catch some, haha.

Book is the reef guide, by Dennis king and valda Fraser.

OnceTrueFalseBr
12/10/2014, 09:07 AM
http://************.com/2014/12/05/south-african-harlequin-goldies-pseudanthias-connelli-time/

South African law does not allow for capture and resale of these fish. It really brings reefkeeping into disrepute. The company selling this livestock claims to only sell mac approved livestock. These fish were poached and anyone purchasing them is aiding and abetting a criminal act.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/05/ssd-2-petabytes-of-data/

?

LOL

OnceTrueFalseBr
12/10/2014, 09:08 AM
I have a south African collection permit. It is explicitly clear. The laws in this country do not allow you to sell so much as a grain of sand from the sea. You can't trade it, donate it, or barter with it.
You can catch certain species using certain methods for your own tank, with proper permits (separate permit for fish, inverts, plants, molluscs, etc) as long as you keep a detailed log of collections and deaths.

So while they could be legally captured, they could not be even given away legally. I'm amazed that anyone would risk it. The penalties are quite severe.

Can they be bred?

Vilas
12/10/2014, 09:16 AM
Someone other than me has to answer this, I'm just the chick in the tide pools with a butterfly net and a reference book.

Vilas
12/10/2014, 09:20 AM
Oh, legally speaking? Not sure, but any endemic species isn't allowed to be traded. It gets tricky - some fish you CAN find locally, or you can buy from Kenya. One is legal, the other isn't.
Up until recently, we weren't allowed to trade frags, so I'd doubt it. You'd have to have special permits at very least, for aquaculture. I mean, you need a permit to even keep a marine tank, technically - but commercial use is a much bigger story. I couldn't speculate much more

billsreef
12/10/2014, 09:36 AM
Thanks for looking that up.

To me, endemic to kzn means they're find in my neighbourhood, nowhere else.

That would be the correct interpretation of endemic.

Looking at the currents and temperatures (http://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/GLBhycom1-12/agulha.html) of that coast, I wouldn't expect an endemic population of the KwaZulu Natal are to finding it's way upcurrent, and into much warmer water, in substantial quantity (if at all) the distance required to reach waters of legal collecting/export...Kenya.

Vilas
12/10/2014, 10:11 AM
Yup. Kzn has much colder water than even Mozambique. If they're living only here, they probably are perfectly adapted to our conditions. And it is indeed upstream for them to swim, which is why I can confidently use seawater in my tank. The cities are all to the right of me.

Vilas
12/10/2014, 11:10 AM
A local board is also discussing this. No one there is aware of any permits having ever been issued to commercially collect. Smells like poaching to me. Poachers with serious amounts of, er, bravery for publicising such an act. Perhaps they did manage to secure a permit, in which case, they would be very wise to make that normally impossible permit public.

nemo's janitor
12/10/2014, 12:22 PM
The SA government links below are of the necessary permits and requirements for most of the fisheries activities.

One needs a right to catch or operate a mariculture operation. Then you have to apply for permits to import, export, transport, research and catch for brood stock.
Over and above this there are biodiversity laws, provincial laws and CITES requirements. Health certificates, country of origin and environment impact studies have to be submitted before rights are awarded. All is welcome to sift through the maze of legality that would be necessary to be overcome to be legally able to export marine ornamentals from South Africa.

http://www.gov.za/services/export-permits/fish-commercial-basis
http://www.daff.gov.za/daffweb3/Branches/Fisheries-Management/Aquaculture-and-Economic-Development/aaquaculture-sustainable-management/Authorisation

GreshamH
12/10/2014, 12:26 PM
Thanks for looking that up.



That would be the correct interpretation of endemic.

Looking at the currents and temperatures (http://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/GLBhycom1-12/agulha.html) of that coast, I wouldn't expect an endemic population of the KwaZulu Natal are to finding it's way upcurrent, and into much warmer water, in substantial quantity (if at all) the distance required to reach waters of legal collecting/export...Kenya.

Yellow tang's show up in the Sea of Cortez at times. larval drift, and that one is quite the drift.

nemo's janitor
12/10/2014, 12:43 PM
I should add that all the collecting needs to be done outside of a MPA of which KZN waters are a big contingent.

billsreef
12/10/2014, 01:23 PM
Yellow tang's show up in the Sea of Cortez at times. larval drift, and that one is quite the drift.

Distance wise, yes it's quite the drift. However, there are some westerly currents that loop from HI to the west coast, and southerly currents along the coast, combined with some loop currents in the Sea Cortez that are supportive of that drift. Also the temperature along that belt of currents is agreeable to the tangs as well.

Farkwar
12/23/2014, 10:57 PM
Why is it illegal to sell them?

Whats the reason?

Farkwar
12/23/2014, 10:59 PM
And why is the website blacked out in the link?

Vilas
12/23/2014, 11:14 PM
It would be strictly illegal without special permission from the minister. South Africa does not generally issue commercial collection permits, and these anthias are endemic.
Perhaps someone did jump through all of the hoops for twenty fish. The local reef keeping community hasn't heard of any permits being issued, but it is a possibility. I'd be surprised, given how rare commercial permits are, that whoever procured this permit hasn't been a bit more proactive in proving legal status.

GreshamH
12/24/2014, 11:45 AM
And why is the website blacked out in the link?

Because RC has had prior issues with that website. Its not hard to figure out which reef building blog it might have come from ;)

mandarinfanatic
01/02/2015, 02:49 AM
in "Coral" magazine page 5 a kingi is shown with a value of 37 600 dollars yet it is illegal to collect and sell these South African fish. I spoke to the person responsible for sending this fish to interzoo. he told me he had the specific fish shipped back to South Africa after which it died and he has the frozen fish to prove it (if it is truly the same fish). he tried to justify his actions but it is still illegal. let's just say I warned him and we no longer associate. I voiced my opinions that he was the poacher or facilitator of the Anthias because it all went through dejongmarinelife but he denied this.