High fish turnover. Is this normal or am I a bad keeper??

[tzylak]

I got an established tank in July and do my best to keep the fish happy. But looking at my livestock log it looks quite dismal.

Is this a 'normal' turnover rate for a novice:
* Royal Gramma that came with the tank: gone after 7 weeks.
* Mandarin Goby, yes, a stupid mistake on my part for getting it: gone after 3 months.
* Arrow Crab, got shredded in the circulating pump (the pump buried deep in the rock pile but he got to it anyway): gone after 3 months
* Peppermint shrimp, got two: one gone after 4 weeks
* Gold Blennies, got two, quarantined for a week: both gone after a week in DT
* Star Blenny: gone after 3 days in the QT tank.

I do weekly water test and 5-10g changes.
pH 8.0, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10-20, PO4 0, Calcium 360-400, Alk76-8, 78-80F, salinity spot-on & constant.

Is this a 'normal' turnover rate for a novice caretaker???
Could the creature assortment be causing them to eat each other???

Fish: 1 Ocellaris Clown, 1 B&W Clown, 1 Firefish Goby, 1 Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Fire Shrimp, 1 Corral Banded Shrimp, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, Bristle Worms and CUC.
Reef: 150 lb. Sand, 70 lb. Rock, Frog Spawn, Button Polyps, Mushrooms, Kenya Trees, Feather Star, Brain, Leather Toadstool and several aiptasias. . . .
Tank: 50g hex, overflow, 20um sock filter, 23 gal sump with DSB, 2 return pumps, 3 in-tank circulators, 5 UH fluorescent, chiller 650, heater 150W, skimmer 65, I got the tank on 7/18/2014 but it has been established for over 15 years!!
BTW, Getting the Feather Star was an ignorant rookie mistake on my part. . . . but at least it is still alive and eating!!

[Lizzy_lray]

Yeah that's a lot of fish some are understandable though.

I've always lost peppermint shrimp after a week or two.

The mandarin needs a well established tank and an abundance of copepods on hand but you probably know that now

The others I'm not sure about
I've had one tank crash in the past and is was due to smoke (long story) I long a yellow tang and clownfish but corals made it no loss there.

I had an eel get cut up in the overflow to my sump but that's about it.


How are the corals? That should indicate water quality?

[Shawn O]

Are they dead or just missing? It's possible some of them are hiding or in the sump since the move. If dead, did the sand get stirred up or removed/replaced during the move?

[OnceTrueFalseBr]

I only lost one fish so far(3 months) a clown. and I think my emerald crab killed it by clamping on it, then the hermits at him up =( Ive had my peppermint shrimp for 2 months .

what is your feeding schedule like?

however that is ALOT of death...

[coralsnaked]

Royal Gramma that came with the tank: gone after 7 weeks.
Did you use this fish for creating the cycle? If so stressed it greatly

* Mandarin Goby, yes, a stupid mistake on my part for getting it: gone after 3 months.
Surely it starved to death. Research all fish prior to purchase. Never buy a fish on an impulse

* Arrow Crab, got shredded in the circulating pump (the pump buried deep in the rock pile but he got to it anyway): gone after 3 months

It happens w/ some type power heads I choose to utilize only pumps that my critters cannot get into

* Peppermint shrimp, got two: one gone after 4 weeks
Are you sure they are gone. They like to hide and are good at it. Check at night w/ a light with a red lens.

* Gold Blennies, got two, quarantined for a week: both gone after a week in DT
* Star Blenny: gone after 3 days in the QT tank.
Something is wrong w/ the QT set up. Make sure you cycle it and utilize some instant cycle products like SmartStart for saltwater or other products. Check the stickies on this forumn about the proper weay to set up a QT

[julie180]

2 clowns in a 50 gallon take will take over and its very possible they are killing the newcomers.

[BlueFyre]

2 clowns in a 50 gallon take will take over and its very possible they are killing the newcomers.


2 ocellaris clowns? I highly doubt it. That also does not explain the fish lost in QT

[rfgonzo]

To answer your question, no it is not normal. You're going to need to figure out what the cause is. If they're dying in quarantine it could also be the source that you're getting your fish from.

[toothybugs]

2 ocellaris clowns? I highly doubt it. That also does not explain the fish lost in QT

Agreed. I have a mated pair in my 40B and they generally watch newcomers pretty closely for a day or two and that's it. They only seem to have it out for my electric blue.

I am also on board for curing a sponge and using that for QT cycling. But, for fun, try a new fish source. Also, what is your QT water change cycle? I have a cycled sponge in mine (when running) but do 50% water changes every 4 days or so.

[snorvich]

Coral banded shrimp can take fish. A mating pair of clownfish will want to control about 25 gallons of tank space.

[Sk8r]

Clarkii's will go for 50 gallons of their own space.

[Azedenkae]

Yeah... that's not normal man. :/ I mean, the fish should be able to live on and on and on, there should be no visible expiry date until they are quite a number of years old. In general anyways.

I can't really see a reason why they would die though, just from your parameters.

Do you see their carcass anywhere? Just wondering if they may have jumped out.

Actually, I do have one thing I wonder about. When you measure your parameters - when is that? Do you ever measure your parameters when you have fish in?

Also, if they are constantly dying regardless of whether they are in QT or otherwise, I wonder if there is something in your water that is just simply toxic.

Hm...

[edinphilly]

How are you acclimating the fish you've bought? If you are buying them from a place running lower salinity and then not properly acclimating you will have a high mortality rate. Do some research on this if its a possibility.

[tzylak]

I do appreciate your comments.
To answer your questions:
* I transported the tank a third-full with the fish and sand and most LR in it. -To minimize the stress.
* Tank is acrylic with a full cover.
* Missing? -Possibly. But after weeks of MIA I presume they are gone.
* I do check the overflow and sump sock weekly. No fish found.
* I do the 30-minute drip acclimation process. I checked the salinity of LFS and it is very close.
* Corrals are thriving.
* QT tank has 20% water change daily, using the DT water.
* I feed the fish every evening.
* I might turn off the in-tank circulators just to eliminate the possibility that they are grinding up the newcomers.
* I don't know what to do with the Banded shrimp. It is rarely seen and it did not grow a whole lot so it must not be eating carcasses either.
Any other ideas??
THANKS!!

[JWClark]

If all of your fish are coming from the same place the first thing you should do is find a new supplier. Do you buy them discounted? Perhaps you need to learn how to spot signs of stressed/ailing fish so you know which ones to avoid when purchasing.

For your in-tank circulators you really need either a sponge or screen on the intake to prevent livestock from getting sucked in. A pile of rocks will not prevent that--only impede flow.

Also, feed the fish at least twice a day. For acclimation look at what liveaquaria recommends--works for me.

[ca1ore]

Even experienced reef keepers lose fish, and very often for reasons beyond our control. I strongly encourage folks to use a QT tank and adjust that go incoming fish water, thus eliminating much of the acclimation stress. There is no good reason to bury a powerhead on the rocks, I'd remove it. Mandarin is an ill advised purchase for a novice, as you recognize; they need an established tank, and even then are tricky. Feather Star may look OK, but they are essentially impossible to feed properly - I have never seen one survive long term. Go slowly with new fish, Acclimate and QT them properly, and you will have success.

[Teenreefer15]

This is very unfortunate. Are you keeping up with your water changes? Post your params and pics of tank. Also when a fish dies I hope you remove it.