mandarin fish didn't last 24 hours

[Lucky Lefty]

So yesterday, as an early xmas gift to myself, I picked up a baby mandarin fish. It's a female green mandarin, maybe 1.5" in length at best.
I watched her for about a half hour and she was actively eating amd swimming around.

Came home, acclimated for about an hour and 20 minutes, along with 7 turbo snails, and dropped them in the tank.

She was doing great almost imstantly. Swimming about, eating pods left and right, I even showed her a hiding spot which she stayed in for 10 minutes or so then came out to hunt some more.

She slept on the sand last night... all seemed great.

Woke up this morning, come downstairs and she's no where on sight. Take a look around, and I find her pinned to the side of the wp40 powerhead. F^&@$!!!!!!

Shut down the powerhead, and waved my hand near her and she sprang to.. I got her away from the powerhead and she went down to the sand, where I can now she the right side and top of her body is heavily damaged. Scales remain white and the right side, which was stuck to the powerhead, is sucked in and it doesn't seem she can use those fins to we'll as when she tries to take off she spins in a circle.

:(

This is a terrible day.. I was so excited about this fish. Waited a long time, felt like I found the right one and my tank was ready.

Is there any way she can pull through. Has anyone has a fish sustain damage like this and survive? She doesn't appear to have an open wound.

Today... hurts.

[Lucky Lefty]

Further inspection shows her right side fin, the primary fin that flutters all the time, is what I can only describe as chewed in half. Is the recoverable?

She seems to be trying to eat.. but seems more of a struggle than anything

[Lucky Lefty]

Here's a shot.. Crappy quality die to ipad

[Lucky Lefty]

Ok.. so i know I'm talking to myself at this point.. but I'm pretty optimistic she may pull through after reading post #3 of this thread
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380609

[SNAKEMANVET]

Looks like she can make a full recovery if she is eating.is she eating frozen food or just pods.

[Lucky Lefty]

I haven't tried frozen food yet, was planning on trying it today.
she seems to be trying to get along.. right now she's propped up on a turbo snail against the wall.
nowhere near eating as much as yesterday, but every so often she seems to peck and at least try to eat something.
honestly she looks more labored than anything, like she's too focused on moving more than eating.
I haven't given up hope just yet, but this is tough to watch.

Perhaps I'll thaw some frozen mysis amd see if she takes it

[SNAKEMANVET]

If she is picking at the rocks that's a good sign.My mandarins have alittle difficulty swimming around my tank,flow really pushes them around.Hope she pulls through.

[Lucky Lefty]

I'm trying to observe as much as I can..
I haven't seen her actually eye up a pod and pluck him as you would usually see..

See seems moreso just hanging in there, and her lips are constantly puckering in and out. I've seen her make a few quick, spasmatic moves, a few times looked like she may have been eating, but I'm starting to think she's fading out.
she was just laying on top of the turbo with her lips against the wall, pods walking around her mouth and she wasn't even looking at them..
the future is looking grim.
completely bummed at this point.

BAH HUMBUG

[Lucky Lefty]

Just reporting more as I find.. obviously this is consuming my day right now.

I think she has some spinal damage.. the area where she was stuck to the pump is sucked in right behind her rib cage, and her body is slightly curved.
haven't seen her flex up her front dorsal fin.
Put some thawed mysis around her and she didn't go fornit.

[Nina51]

oh man, what a sad thing to have to watch. i really hope she comes out of it and is healthy again. they are such gorgeous fish and yours is beautiful!

[Coelli]

Oh, I'm so sorry :( They're such beautiful fish and it's never easy to see an animal suffer. :(

[Lucky Lefty]

Thanks.

Just going to leave her be for now I guess. I'm kind of at a loss as what to do.

Just feel terrible about it really.

Another lesson... the hard way, just as its been from day 1.

[snorvich]

Well, from Drs. Foster and Smith Website:


A 180 gallon or larger, fish-only aquarium with a good protein skimmer is a suitable home. It may be aggressive at times, nipping the fins of tank mates and leaving a circular hole as its mark. It will eat invertebrates found in a reef aquarium. It has the ability, when threatened or scared, to inflate its body to almost twice its normal size. Parts of its flesh are poisonous if digested.

[rishu_pepper]

Sorry to hear... but maybe my anecdote will give you some hope.

I inherited a small tomato clown from my previous tank owner, and I transferred it to my 30g hoping it would pair up with my bigger tomato clown. The small clown got so messed by the bigger one, its dorsal fin was pretty much completely chewed off before we could rescue it and put it back into the 90g.

After a week or two, the dorsal completely regrew and the small tomato was well on its way. It's now off to a new owner, where he is happy.

Hope the Christmas will still be merry for you and the mandarin pulls through. It's a beaut.

[Lucky Lefty]

Thanks for the positive thoughts. She's been in the same spot for a few hours now.. breathing and fluttering her fins, but pretty much not moving around.
I really hope she pulls through.

I hope it wasn't the puffer.. although the wife and I were just wondering of he's turning into a midnight murderer.. there's a serpent star in there I haven't seen since the day I put it in, sometimes snails are upside down in weird spots, and now this.. he seems so docile if not afraid of a lot of things, and if he did attack the mandarin I would think it would be missing a part of its body or gone altogether. . I've seen this puffer decimate shrimp twice the size of the mandarin with a single peck.

Sigh.... so bleek. What a crappy day. Cmon Mandy... cmon!!

[Lucky Lefty]

I'm inspecting the mandarin fish as it lays on the sand under the flashlight now that the lights are out.
I'm looking at the left side, which is the opposite side she was stuck on.
I must say, I am highly suspecting that the puffer took a quick chop the top of the mandarins back, possibly while sleeping and faded in color resembling a piece of shrimp.
the wound area seems to be a half circle shape on st lest this side I can see. Which would explain why th ree appears to be spinal damage.
Not for certain.. but this seems a highly likely scenario.

[Coelli]

Oh no, that's too bad :( Do you have another tank you could move her to for now? Might be hard to find pods on Christmas Eve though. *sigh*

[firemedix911]

Damn. I love those fish. Poor thing. Incredible personality.

[Whiterabbitrage]

Do not give up! If you have a smaller tank you can move her to, you can nurse her back to health more effectively. Do not give up. She can live through this. And you can't know if she has spinal damage yet. Of course her body will be curled right now, she's sore. You've got to give her time to heal.
Get her into a smaller tank where you can nurse her and be sure she eats. Nutramar ova fed through a disposable pipette ( I get mine from Amazon ) should keep her nourished until she is healed enough to swim and hunt. You can also overnight some live pods from Drs foster and smith. Keep an eye out for infection. Be sure you have meds in case of fungus or bacteria infection, but don't use unless you have to.
Do not give up on this fish!

[Lucky Lefty]

Ok so, yesterday the mandarin hid all day long, in almost the exact same spot.

Breathing normally, fluttering wings, but her tail fin has nearly completely disintegrated.

She hadnt left the cave all day, and the puffer was sleeping so it wasn't that he bit her tail off, as the day went on, I noticed more and more of the tail missing.
In the morning, about 25% of the tail flush was gone! and I could see bones sticking out.
This morning she has moved from the cave, and you can now see 100% of her tail has decayed away.
In the attached photo, taken this morning, you can see the wound area on the center of her back. It is pretty clear to see the bite mark indent (half circle) from which I believe the puffer took a chomp upon them first meeting, night one.

I guess I learned a few things here, unfortunately at the expense of a beautiful creature that I became attached to before I even purchased her.
I guess I should have put a divider of some sort between the two fish, perhaps a box of some sort to get the puffer used to the mandarin, as opposed to the puffer finding it sleeping in the sand doing its best shrimp impression.

I still am yet to see her eat since the injury. Although she is breathing and slightly moving around, she seems to be suffering, and a tail rotting of falling off cannot be a good sign. As I said before, I think her spine is broken, and she is most likely paralyzed from the dorsal fin down. I don't want her to suffer, but I don't know if euthanasia is needed here, and my wife doesn't want me to pull her out to finish her off, I guess maybe because she has hopes she may pull through.

[Betta132]

I don't think she's going to make it. Euthanasia is probably a good plan, before the tail rot gets any further. If it's that fast, it's going to start moving up her tail, and she's going to be in a lot of pain.
Can you get some clove oil? Maybe from a natural grocer? That's a good method. Put her in a smallish container of water in a dimly lit area to help keep her calm. Add a couple of drops of clove oil to a cup of water, shake it hard to mix them, and slowly add the clove oil mixture to her container. Keep doing that every 5-10 minutes until she stops breathing, then add a bunch more clove oil and just leave her for a while. Painless, gentle death. The worst that could happen with this method is the fish will notice the clove oil being added and get a bit scared, but in her state she'll probably pass out before she notices.

[Lucky Lefty]

Thank you for the advice.
If that is as effective as that, I would think that would be a better way to go than suffering slowly like she most likely is.

Her breathing seems to be getting slightly more labored.

This sucks so bad. Still can't believe I let this happen.

I'm going to go look for some clove oil now.

[Code4]

Lucky you did not cause this. You are very caring. I sometimes use a First aid tank inside mine to get fish used to each other. And my current mandarin is in it healing nicely. I hatch alot of baby brine shrimp to feed her each day. I unplug the circulating pump so they do not get flushed into the main tank while she eats. There is also a live rock for her. Maybe this would work for your next one. Without the rock so the puffer will see her better.

So sorry for your and your wife's loss.

Shelley

[Lucky Lefty]

Thanks Shelley.
I'm going to try and take some more precautions if/when there is a next time.
I do not want to subject another fish to what happened to the mandarin.. although it may be inevitable. I don't know.
If I do try again with another mandarin, I suppose I'll build a small box to hang in the tank, and use that for the first few days so the puffer can get used to him being in the tank, and not taste test it.

...sigh

[Betta132]

The puffer might still take a bite, if it's the pale form you're concerned about. It doesn't matter if you put food in an acclimation box, it's still going to be eaten, and a pale mandy looks like food.

[Lucky Lefty]

Well... R.I.P. Mandi
Just came downstairs and she was tumbling around the sand bed.
She received a proper burial in the backyard.. fish or not, I don't like the thought of flushing a pet down the toilet.
I'm thinking the same about the puffer.. as much as I love the mandarin, I think it might not work, unless the mandarin hides in a cave all night.. and why chance that with another fish's life.
What to do, what to do.

[snorvich]

Doing the same thing multiple times and expecting a different result . . .

[Lucky Lefty]

...is the definition of genius, right!?

[Code4]

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a new tank might be needed with more peaceful tank mates. At least that is my reason for two tanks! One to house larger fish and one for my favorite, more picky eaters. I am no Paul b and all the other do it yourselfers. Unless it is for my outside living space. So I bought a First Aid multipurpose acclamation device by CPR Aquatic, Inc. It is helping with the little mandarin. So worth the money I spent over a year ago on it. I put a spotted mandarin in the DT at the same time. She is fat and the angel does not bother her. She never bothered my old guy either.

A second tank, what a great investment. Do not tell the wife I suggested it.

Hope the remainder of your weekend goes better.

Shelley

[Code4]

And to be honest mine never hide regularly. Not where I would feel safe for them. Even my little Ruby red one hangs out in the sand sleeping. He is in a different tank than the others.

Shelley