Newer to the hobby

[Captain smoke]

Hello everyone,

Im getting back into the hobby, when I was 15 I had a 25g salt water tank with clowns, tangs, lion, snowflake eel, and LR.

Its been over 18 years since then and I was at Petco and they had a sale on a 60g tank & stand with light combo for 200$ so I jumped on it. So I was talking with the saltwater care taker there and she suggested the marine land 400 Emperor, 900gph powerhead, and a 200w heater. all together out the door around 400. For a bottom Im using sand with crush shell mix about a 65/35 mix.
I have a salt mix of 1/2cup/gal that got me to 1.022-.0225 temp of 76f. I let that sit for a day and added live rock from the Petco and did a Fluvial biological enhancer treatment for new tanks.
So far this pic is from day 3.5 on Wednesday I was going to have the water tested.

Any suggestions? Im doing this on a very tight budget

BTW the stickers are my daughter idea till we get some fish


One question, Carbon is it needed, my last tank didn't have it? The filter has cartridges for carbon but currently empty.

[FraggledRock]

is that a regular t5 hood setup or t5ho?

Carbon is needed if you feel there are any Dissolved Organic Matter that needs to be removed. you probably don't need it yet during the cycle phase

the filter is a hang on back filter? do you plan on only using the hang on back filtration?

[Zimmer]

I would get the temp up closer to 80, and you want salinity closer to 1.025-1.026. Don't worry about carbon right now, but its handy to have once you start putting more stuff in the tank.

[Reef Frog]

I would add more live rock, both for bio filtration & for a place your fish can hide. This is very important.

People can make an HOB work on a tank but an HOB skimmer would be better IMO. If you keep it I suggest:
-Don't over stock fish or get really big fish. Under stock and add new fish very slowly.
-Keeping up with weekly water changes is important in your case to remove nutrients to keep pest algaes under control.

Carbon can be added later. No point in running it during your initial cycle. Once again be careful not to overload on fish. While the cycle is progressing I would read up on SW fish, see what you like, put together a list and post it on Reef Central for opinions on suitability for your set up. Best of luck!

[Captain smoke]

Im not sure of the lights are T5 but the bulbs say Marineland natural daylight F15t8ndl.
for filtration I'm going to be using the hang on Mainland 400 with dual filters and dual bio-wheels. In the future I'm looking to go with a sump setup but $ is my main hold back. (I'm sure as us all)

Why keep the salinity at .025-.026 and temp up? is this to improve growth during cycle stages?

Im going to add more rock this week, Im selling some instruments I no longer have interest in playing, so one hobby to pay for the new on.

For fish I'm not looking at adding anything big or expensive right away. I've always loved clowns, blue damsels, yellow tang, and a snowflake eel.

My ideal fish count 4 clowns, 1 tang, 4 blues, 1 eel, and 2-3 blood shrimps.
For the powerhead how should I aim it?

PS anyone want to buy a acoustic guitar?

[Tigerdragon]

Do you plan to do only fish or are you going to do corals to. I would add at least another power head for flow

[Captain smoke]

right now just fish, but soon at have corals prob in 6 months or more. Im doing this on a tight budget and I'm not looking to have a heavy maintenance. I like simple tanks to me less is more.

[Captain smoke]

also for a powerheads? Right now I have a nice flow going with a 900gph, would a 500gph be beneficial for fish and corals and how should they be aimed?
For corals I like the Kenya tree coral

[Zimmer]

You are going to want to research your livestock a little better before you start adding fish...... 2 clowns max, and no tangs in a 60 gallon tank.

Fish can tolerate a lower salinity like you've got now just fine, corals and inverts will not do well. Same with temp. Reefs in the ocean are regularly hitting 80-85 degrees. We want to mimic nature in our tank for best results....

[Sk8r]

That will do nicely for a basic softie coral tank: buttons, mushrooms---the things we struggled to grow back in the day now thrive. Consult our SETTING UP sticky, which is actually a whole book, which will make a lot of sense to someone who's been this road before, so some things will be basic to you and others quite new. HTH!

[Captain smoke]

I just got back from the fish store in SW chicago. Chicago Reptile House and pick up some LR to add. I increased the temp to 80 and slowly rising the salt to 25. I'm not going to go crazzy with the tank at first, just want some nice relaxing fish to watch.

Im shock to see that a tang won't work in a 60gal. I had a yellow tang in my last tank with no problem. Out of all the fish in my last tank he was the most hardy fish and I had 4 clowns too.

[Zimmer]

A yellow tang would initially probably be fine but as it grows it will want for more swimming space.... 60 is probably the smallest tank i would put a yellow tang in. With clowns, same thing they'll probably initially all be just fine but as they start to mature, pair up, and spawn, you're likely going to have some turf wars between 2 breeding pairs. Some types are more territorial, some are less. I'm not saying it can't be done, but don't be surprised if it doesn't quite work out the way you planned. Skim over the stickies like Sk8r said, and you'll be on the right track!

[Captain smoke]

Picked up a test kit, so far everything ok except for Nitrates its at 5ppm.

should I do a small water change or let it cycle more?

[fishhuman]

Your old 25 gallon tank was ridicolously overstocked. Unless all the clowns were hatched together it would be a very bad idea to get 4 of them. The dominant two will kill the others off. The only tang I would say could live in a 60g would be a bristletooth/kole tang and that is only if it is 4 feet long. If you have the 2ft cube model then tangs are out of the question. The eel is fine but you would have to get a golden dwarf eel because the two other species, snowflake and zebra, that don't eat fish are invertibrate eaters and would eat your blood shrimp and clean up crew. I think the damsels would be fine but I would add them last because they get very aggresive. Nitrates at 5ppm is not bad but I would continue your cycle untill you see a spike up in nitrates and then a drop down.

[Captain smoke]

My detailed reading from this morning,
pH 0
NH3/NH4+ 0ppm
No2- Oppm
NO3- 5-10ppm

Last night at the LFS I was informed to place one fish in the tank and it will assist in the cycle and because Im using live rock and sand that he will be fine. So I listened to him and place a clown in. ( I really regretting this did it against my conscious judgement.)

[Zimmer]

Well lots of people will use a fish to cycle their tanks it works but it's an "old school" method that most people avoid these days due to stress on your poor new fish as it goes through the cycle. Clowns are pretty hardy so hopefully he'll make it but no matter what your fish guy tells you don't add any more fish until your cycle completes! He's just trying to sell you stuff! Listen to your subconscious next time....:p

[Captain smoke]

Yes I def. will next time. Turns out back when I was 14 and had my old tank setup I got my set and fish from a family friend JR Aquatics in Oak Forest and then Tinley when Jeff moved. When Jeff sold it I got rid of my tank and lost interest. Turns out Jeff now owns Aquaticexotic in Lake of the Hills Il so I will take the 1hr drive and get everything from him.

[Captain smoke]

checked the water again
ph 8.2
NH3= 0-.25ppm
NO2= 0ppm
NO3= 10ppm

Nemo is eating 3-4 pellets through the day of New Era

Looking at adding more live and dead rock today if the LFS is open, any suggestions at adding a cleaner shrimp to clean up what Nemo doesn't eat?

[Tigerdragon]

Hermits, coral banded shrimp, emerald crabs. Just have to watch what fish you put in otherwise they will eat your inverts

[Zimmer]

Hermits are your first line of defense for scavenging, and you want to get the litte tiny guys so they can get into all the little crevices and scrounge up all that gunk! Just don't buy as many as all the online sites recommend, their "clean up crew" packages are waaaaay overstocked. For example, most places recommend 1 per gallon.... and I have maybe 15 in my 90 gallon tank and can't imagine having more. Peppermints and cleaners are great shrimp to have, but remember if you ever plan to get an anemone for Nemo they shrimps are notorious for stealing their food!

[Captain smoke]

my live rock had one blue leg hermit, he's very neat and fun to watch. In one week he changed his shell to a larger one. So for a 60gal would you say 10 hermets or 1 cleaner shrimp be ok? on anemones maybe one down the road.

Finding out looking at fish Im not looking at anything very aggressive

[Zimmer]

I think that sounds like a good amount to start with. You can always add more! Some places will give you "replacement shells" for the hermits to try on and switch into... not a requirement but they will assasinate snails and eachother looking for new shells to move into if there aren't any available! 1 cleaner shrimp, or maybe 2-3 peppermints would be plenty.

[Captain smoke]

Great, all the LFS are closed today so I'm going to have to go tomorrow

Anyone know of shelf rock and where to get it?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QYWOU2ulctM/hqdefault.jpg

[Captain smoke]

Tanks been up for almost 2 weeks now, Nemo is doing great. He's eating great and spending more time swimming around and exploring the extra 25lbs of live rock I added last week. I tested the water over the last week and I had some ammonia and nitrite spike of 0.25-.5ppm of NH3 and .25 ppmNO2 of . this morning and this are my readings

pH 8.4
NH3/NH4+ 0
No2- O ppm
NO3- 15 - 20ppm

So whats next?

[ReefsandGeeks]

sounds like your tank is just finished cycling. once you know what live stock you want for sure you can add a little more, a fish or maybe 2 if they are small. it may be best if you could wait another week or so before adding anything else to let your bacteria build up even more. Right now your tank is just able to keep up with one fish's bioload. Once you put in more the mioload will increase and you will likely see a mini cycle. Monitor peramiters after adding more livestock just like you were during your cycle to make sure your tank is handling the increased bioload okay. It's important to know what you want livestock you want to put in before you start adding because livestock is best added in a partiualar order. If you were to put a more terretorial or agressive fish in it can make adding more livestock difficult.

[Zimmer]

Time for a water change

[Captain smoke]

Would be a good idea to wait till this weekend for the water change to verify the testings? Thinking I was going to wait till late next week for adding anything

[Zimmer]

Ya its not an emergency by any means but that's the next step once your cycle is done nitrates are the end result of that and export via water change is the simplest way to bring those down. You're probably fine on adding more livestock after that, just not a whole bunch at once. Gotta give your bacteria time to adjust to the increased bioload every time you introduce new creatures!

[Captain smoke]

Here are my ideas of fish
1 cleaner and one blood shrimp and 8-10 hermits
2 clowns
2 damsels one blue and one b/w stripped
1 gobie
1 dottyback
And after time some large soft corral and small yards

[Zimmer]

Should work ok put the damsels in last, maybe pick only one of them instead of 2 different types? They tend to be naughty so I would let everyone else establish territory first. There is a sticky on this forum to look at before buying anything post your planned stock list and one of the very experienced members will let you know if there are any issues with your plan.

[Scuba_Steve]

I will give 3 major pieces of vital advice.

1. Stop listening to that LFS. Consult here before making any changes.

2. Slow and steady wins the race in this hobby. Dont rush things. Let your system stabilize for a week or 2 at a minimum before adding new things.

3. Damsels are evil evil little fish. You will regret having them when they are killing everything else you have, including each other.

[AmberLee]

Pjama or Bangaii Cardinals are nice to look at!

[Captain smoke]

I was not going to get all the fish at the same time. First will be the other clown and the shrimp.

[Captain smoke]

Well after doing some more searching and youtubing I found that I had two Aptaisia growing on the LR. I watched some videos about blasting them with boiling water and a syringe. I did tell it before but I'm a full-time firefighter paramedic and I have some spare EMS supplies around the house and did the hotter bath and both of them died and I was only able to grab one of them. The one that got away was setup on a very pours part of the rock and shrunk into his hiding place. Ill just have to watch and see if it come back. After my cycles complete I will get some Peppermint shrimp to hold them at bay if they return.

[Captain smoke]

Tonight I was watching Nemo play in the EAC (powerhead current) and I seen a 2" long bristol worm... ugh ugly... Ive searched them and I'm finding mixed results, should I try and catch it?

[Captain smoke]

Tested the water this morning,

pH. 8.2
amm 0
nitirtes 0
nitrates 5ppm

Im not sure why my nitrates dropped from 15 to 5ppm but kool.
I ordered a Eshopps hang on 75 protein skimmer last night and should be in around the 20th.

tonight Im trying to catch the worm, wife saw it yesterday and its very large prob 3-4" so I made a home made trap from youtube ideas and will be placed in tonight.

[Zimmer]

Bristle worms are good, they are scavengers. Catch him if you want but I would just leave it alone.... Even if you catch him odds are there are more you just haven't seen yet. If you start seeing A LOT of them, it just means there's lots to eat, so you may be overfeeding and/or there's too much waste being made by your fish. People used to think they were bad guys but they don't hurt anything, just a little creepy looking!

[GilliganReef]

In a few months you'll regret having the HOB and wished you spent $50 on makeing your own sump and drilling the tank.

[Captain smoke]

My next setup will be a sump system and a larger tank.