Quarantine Tank Processes!

[d2mini]

Been in this hobby for years and now I'll be setting up my first ever QT.
Honestly, I'm not excited about it due to the extra work, but I'm doing it because I know it's better than the alternative.

Anyway, I've seen a bazillion threads on setting it up, what equipment to buy, etc.
What I can't seem to find solid info on is what process(es) to follow once running! All the articles I find on the subject seem to stop after the setup portion.

For example: Let's say I just went to my LFS and found a perfectly healthy looking fish with no visible signs of disease and is eating, something I would have previously brought home, acclimated and then tossed in my tank. So now I bring home the fish, acclimate it, and then toss in the QT. NOW WHAT?! :uhoh2:

Same question for coral frags.

Same question for inverts.

TIA!

[MondoBongo]

so biggest question i think to ask first is what protocol are you planning on going with?

i personally like to keep a fully cycled QT tank, where i put everything that comes through my system. corals, fish, inverts, etc...

i do not treat prophylactically with anything, i just observe and let the fish settle in, start eating, and generally recover from their trip. if i notice any signs of disease, i would remove the animal to a dedicated hospital tank, and treat there. the hospital tank would not be cycled, and would run nearly no equipment, save a heater and powerhead for water movement. it would have some pvc pipe for hiding places, and i would manage the ammonia with large daily water changes.

now i will full admit that this is probably not the best, or most robust, QT strategy out there. Tank Transfer Method (TTM) seems to probably be one of the best in my opinion, as it combines not treating prophylactically, with enhanced chances of "beating" common parasite life cycles. it is, however, more work, and i am a lazy, lazy man in some regards.

others will use an uncycled tank, treating with various medications, and maintaining proper levels through daily water changes. similar to my hospital tank strategy.

the reason i do not treat prophylactically is because i don't think there are any benefits to treating for things that a definitive diagnosis cannot be established for. it is my opinion that this causes more stress on the animal than is necessary, when allowing time for observation for the presentation of specific symptoms can help create a targeted, and more effective, course of treatment.

your mileage may vary.

as far as inverts, i don't really do anything special. chuck the bag water, and in to QT they go.

with corals, i typically do two dips. one with an iodine based product, then follow up with RPS all out (i'm currently starting to look in to transitioning over to Bayer Insecticide and/or straight up Ivermectin). then i will place the corals in my QT system for an amount of time, depending on the type of coral, what else is in QT, etc... and then when i go to transfer them over to the DT, do the two dips again, prior to introduction to the main system.

i also like, whenever possible, to remove any frag plugs, rubble, or other things the corals are mounted on, and use clean, new ones instead. this is another strategy to hopefully help mitigate the surface area that any nasties could hide in/on.

i'm sure there are other options out there as well, but these are the primary ones that i am aware of.

i use old DT water in my QT system for water changes, and have all separate equipment, save a shared ATO container. thought being there that even if there was back siphon, the extremely low (practically 0 even if back siphon occurred) salinity in the ATO vessel should kill any potential pests before they were able to reach the DT. maybe that's a bad assumption, but it makes sense to me.

so tldr, decide which process you would like to use first, then figure out the particulars.

[d2mini]

Thanks for the long response!

For the time being at least, I think the best coarse of action would be to leave it running permanently, especially since I plan to QT everything including new frags, not just fish.

Other than that, that is why I'm here. Trying to figure out the best process to use. :)
I'm basically looking for a step by step process for all three situations (fish, coral, inverts).
I even have a little all-in-one 4g tank I could use as a separate frag or invert tank if needed.

[naz42]

I just started a Qt for the first time as well. I have fish in there from my display tank that were covered in ick. Ive introduce copper right away because they looked so bad and no all signs of ick are gone after 2 weeks. Im keeping in QT for another 6 weeks so all ick in DT dies off. After that any new fish are going to go into Qt. Once they are eating i will dose copper for 2-4 weeks. Then i will introduce to DT. Most people recomend QT 8-12 weeks but i dont have the patience for that. lol. Here is a thread i started in another section about quarintines. Notice Ca1ore's Qt process. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2469470 If your will to do that much work and have the patience that seems like it would be a great QT practice. I plan on assuming all new fish have parasites and treating them for it for the recommended time then add to DT. Im going to look into Prazipro as well. To set up QT i just used Hang on back filter with sponge that has been in my sump for a month building bacteria, a heater, small powerhead and a few pieces of PVC. Also dosed Bacteria. Just keep an eye on ammonia and salinity. I put a water level line right on they tank with a sharpieand top off daily when i feed. Now that its going its not as big a pain as i thought it was going to be.

[MondoBongo]

For the time being at least, I think the best coarse of action would be to leave it running permanently, especially since I plan to QT everything including new frags, not just fish.

this has been the easiest solution for me as well. i even put stuff like macro in QT. my only issue with it is that i have trouble maintaining stable enough parameters for some of the more delicate stuff like acropora. as i build out the QT system (before it didn't even have ato, i was doing it by hand) i think this will become less of an issue, but i have had a few fatalities and near fatalities from sensitive SPS being in the QT system too long.

i started the QT with a 20 long i got off craigs list. used the HOB waterfall style filter that came with it, and the standard light and hood. tossed in a cheap powerhead and heater, and let it cycle as i normally would.

this worked pretty well for a while, and did well especially for hardier things like fish.

i decided i wanted to QT coral as well, so i got myself a cheap zoo med T5 HO light to replace the regular hood and light. this also let me QT clams, if they were close enough to the light source.

fast forward a little further and it turns out i "accidentally" ordered a second HOB overflow, ato, additional skimmer, and small mag drive return pump. long story, but the equipment didn't end up getting used for its intended purpose, so i decided to get an old 10 gallon i had laying around, and give my QT a sump and skimmer.

this has helped water quality immensely. i think the only other thing right now would be to add some kind of alkalinity stability to it for things like acros.

so you can evolve it over time for sure. starting with a cheap tank, HOB filter, and cheap powerhead/heater worked great for fish, inverts, various CUC, and some hardier corals.

on a related note, here is a good article comparing some of the coral dips:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/3/corals

a little out of date, but still has some very good information.

cheers. :beer:

[naz42]

I think Petco is having a dollar a gallon sale going right now. I picked up a 20g long 2 weeks ago for $20

[KSU_WILDCAT]

My question for those running a cycled QT 24/7, say you bring home fish from wherever, drop them into the QT and a week later find out they have a bad case of ICH. My understanding is you will have to disassemble the tank and let everything dry out for 24 hrs to remove the ICH in the tank/filter, ect. I can see that as a real PITA, draining, cleaning, refilling and cycling all over again. How do you guys get around that?

[MondoBongo]

My question for those running a cycled QT 24/7, say you bring home fish from wherever, drop them into the QT and a week later find out they have a bad case of ICH. My understanding is you will have to disassemble the tank and let everything dry out for 24 hrs to remove the ICH in the tank/filter, ect. I can see that as a real PITA, draining, cleaning, refilling and cycling all over again. How do you guys get around that?

you can beat the ich life cycle with a fallow period. it doesn't require drying things out, just removing any potential hosts for the parasite (read as fish).

i've heard varying amount of time from 8 - 12 weeks tossed around for the length of the fallow period, but it seems like consensus is weighted towards a length of 72 days fallow to give a significantly high probability of defeating the parasite.

during different stages of the parasites life, it can survive without a host for a period of time, however during the trophont stage, if it fails to find a host, it will eventually die off, since it cannot feed.

http://aquarium-depot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Marine-ich.jpg

the length of time recommended takes in to account the fact that you can't be 100% where in the life cycle any or all of the parasites currently are, so you take the longest possible amount of time for a complete life cycle, and pad it out a bit just to be sure. (-ninja edit- a lot of common fish diseases aside from ich are also caused by similar ciliated protozoa, so it is possible this length of time has been chosen to accommodate different types of parasites in addition to the commonly cited ich, or Cryptocaryon irritans, including brooklynella and Amyloodinium ocellatum - aka marine velvet. velvet is caused by a dinoflagellate, i'm not sure if that is different from a ciliated protozoa or not)

this is why, if i were to see a fish with an active infection, i would remove them to a dedicate hospital tank for treatment, and allow the QT to remain fallow (fishless) for 72 days.

consequently, this varied stage life cycle is why people will often report the appearance of the ich "just going away". when, in fact, it doesn't go away, it has just entered a different stage of life where it is not actively parasitic.

[v10king]

Been in this hobby for years and now I'll be setting up my first ever QT.
Honestly, I'm not excited about it due to the extra work, but I'm doing it because I know it's better than the alternative.

Anyway, I've seen a bazillion threads on setting it up, what equipment to buy, etc.
What I can't seem to find solid info on is what process(es) to follow once running! All the articles I find on the subject seem to stop after the setup portion.

For example: Let's say I just went to my LFS and found a perfectly healthy looking fish with no visible signs of disease and is eating, something I would have previously brought home, acclimated and then tossed in my tank. So now I bring home the fish, acclimate it, and then toss in the QT. NOW WHAT?! :uhoh2:

Same question for coral frags.

Same question for inverts.

TIA!

Hey there, I recently setup two 20Gallon QT tanks, one for corals and one for fish. I too had same issue in finding what everyone does for normal looking fish. Eventually I came to the conclusion that below is my best bet.

For the fish, I run them in cupramine for 4 weeks and do one or two prazipro treatments while they are in there as well. The prazipro and cupramine dont have any issues.

For the corals, I just bayer dip them, inspect for eggs, and put them in QT, inspect a week later, do a dip again and if everything looks good after 2 weeks, in the display they go.

[v10king]

My question for those running a cycled QT 24/7, say you bring home fish from wherever, drop them into the QT and a week later find out they have a bad case of ICH. My understanding is you will have to disassemble the tank and let everything dry out for 24 hrs to remove the ICH in the tank/filter, ect. I can see that as a real PITA, draining, cleaning, refilling and cycling all over again. How do you guys get around that?

QT runs copper and copper will kill ich regardless of when you put in. No need to take out and clean, etc. If anything I just leave it fully cycled with copper in it, then when fish go in, I recheck my copper level (which does go down) and adjust as necessary. Been working for me.

[d2mini]

Hey there, I recently setup two 20Gallon QT tanks, one for corals and one for fish. I too had same issue in finding what everyone does for normal looking fish. Eventually I came to the conclusion that below is my best bet.

For the fish, I run them in cupramine for 4 weeks and do one or two prazipro treatments while they are in there as well. The prazipro and cupramine dont have any issues.

For the corals, I just bayer dip them, inspect for eggs, and put them in QT, inspect a week later, do a dip again and if everything looks good after 2 weeks, in the display they go.

Cool, this is exactly the info I'm looking for. :)
So for the fish, as long as they went in looking healthy and stay that way, 4 weeks should suffice?

But if I treat with cupramine, then I can't ever use that tank for inverts, correct?

[KSU_WILDCAT]

QT runs copper and copper will kill ich regardless of when you put in. No need to take out and clean, etc. If anything I just leave it fully cycled with copper in it, then when fish go in, I recheck my copper level (which does go down) and adjust as necessary. Been working for me.

Problem is I dont plan on running copper for ICH prevention. I'm in the TTM camp. My DT is in the fallow period right now so I'm going through all of this. Fish can go back in on the 26th so I'm getting near the end. Good information in this thread

[Newsmyrna80]

My question for those running a cycled QT 24/7, say you bring home fish from wherever, drop them into the QT and a week later find out they have a bad case of ICH. My understanding is you will have to disassemble the tank and let everything dry out for 24 hrs to remove the ICH in the tank/filter, ect. I can see that as a real PITA, draining, cleaning, refilling and cycling all over again. How do you guys get around that?

I do TT then put into the cycled QT.

[KSU_WILDCAT]

I do TT then put into the cycled QT.

I think from now on that is how I will do it too. TT and then into cycled QT and then treat other issues as needed. Thanks

[naz42]

is it ok to run prazi and copper at same time?

[v10king]

Cool, this is exactly the info I'm looking for. :)
So for the fish, as long as they went in looking healthy and stay that way, 4 weeks should suffice?

But if I treat with cupramine, then I can't ever use that tank for inverts, correct?

I went with 4 weeks as I couldn't wait any longer, LOL. I think I was going to initially shoot for 6 weeks but you can really see when the fish looks healthy and is doing good in the QT tank. In my experience, fishes look great after 7-10 days max and then its monitoring from there. If you think about the cycle of ich, in theory once the ich drops off the fish, it will die from the copper. So as long as 4 weeks is enough for the ich to fall off fish (everything I have read, says yes) then my theory is they should be fine from there.

The first fish I did this process with I was a little scared but the display looks amazing with no ich in it and some seriously happy fish. I have seen an added benefit in that two of the 8 fishes that I have put into QT died within 2 days of me putting them in there, so I was so happy to see them die in the QT vs the display (and release whatever crap they may have had into display). So, I think you will quickly come to know which fish are sick and cant make it when you put them in the QT.

As far as inverts, I would put them in my coral QT tank and let them stay in there for 4-6 weeks as well (I just started doing this) so if they somehow have ich attached to them, it will drop and stay in coral QT (which has no fish). Your right about inverts in fish QT tank, I think they would die because of the copper? I'm not sure to be honest, lol.

If you use cupramine, make sure you get the Seachem copper test kit to go with it. Also, I found it helpful to test the standard test solution so you can get an idea of the color of a .5mg copper dosage, its very fine line. Once you see how blue it needs to be, getting your QT tank to those levels wont be as stressfull (since you know the test needs to be pretty blue). :)

One last thing, test the cupramine weekly, I found it dropped a good amount each week (drop started slowing down towards end).

[v10king]

is it ok to run prazi and copper at same time?

I have done it together will all my fish I have Qt'd, no issues at all. Make sure you have good aeration (skimmer hooked up with no cup) because 02 levels will definitely go down.

[snorvich]

I do TT then put into the cycled QT.

Same here.

[thejuggernaut]

Honestly if you really want to get rid of it, I think the best is preventative s copper or tank transfer on all fish. Never done transfer, but copper seems easier and is probably more effective, and apparently fairly new research shows that hypo isn't 100% effective. Corals and inverts have their own tank. They are dipped then they go in and wait 12 weeks. If you get a new coral or shrimp to throw in there in the mean time, the clock starts over. That is honestly the only way to ensure that you kill the ICH. Its a pain and requires two extra tank setups. Granted they don't have to be elaborate, but if they are in your house you want them to look nice. It's a pain, but it's the only way to do it right, that's why 99% of hobbyist don't.

[Timfish]

The AZA guidelines, last time I looked, has a minimum quarantine of 30 days complete isolation from all other specimens. If a new specimen is added to the quarantine with specimens that have are part way through their quarantine then the clock is reset to zero for all the specimens in quarantine.

After some of my experiences if I have any issues including if I think a fish just doesn't look "right" I'll extend the quarantine period and if I have several fish together at the same time and a fish dies I'll reset the clock to zero for everything else in that system. After as long as 23 years my display tanks are too valuable to risk being impatient.

[d2mini]

What would you say is the main advantage to this Tank Transfer method vs traditional QT?

[TheRuss]

Bump!! I'm following

[jason2459]

When I finally starting QT after dealing with fluke in my tank I started qting and treating copramine and prazi pro even if I didn't see anything. Corals diped and qt'ed. Everything else QT'ed fallow and observed for pests. Now I'm stocking fish again I'm trying out the TTT method with a few buckets and air stones and a final 20long stage where I still treat with prazi on fish. Dips with what can be dipped.

[eeyore357]

Question for those using Cupramine. What percentage and how often do you do water changes?

[a6walter1]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned hyposalinity yet. I found that keeping a fully cycled QT and just raising and lowering salinity as needed is the easiest. The good bacteria doesn't die off, so the tank stays pristine at all times. However, this method will only work with fish, no inverts or corals.

[silentscream]

What would you say is the main advantage to this Tank Transfer method vs traditional QT?


If I understand correctly, the benefit of TTM is eradication of ich in a short amount of time using no medicines. I assume this is good for copper sensitive fish or fish that have suppressed appetites from the meds during a time you really want to be fattening them up. I've yet to use TTM, but have heard so many success stories from fellow reefers it will be part of my plan when I'm buying fish again.

[fftfk]

Am I the only one who read that D2Mini is starting a quarantine tank and thought "Great, now his quarantine tank is going to be nicer than my main tank!" lol

Great info in this thread! I'd never heard of the tank transfer method before.

[Newsmyrna80]

There is a stickie on TT on the disease forum. Great protocol for preventing ich from entering the main.

[Whiterabbitrage]

I'm setting up two 20 gallon tanks for TTM because I plan to collect Wrasses and they are sensitive to Prazi and copper. All fish will go through TTM. There is a separate HT in case medications are indicated and I will have a separate QT for corals set up with some lighting to keep them happy.

Thank God I now have the space to set all this up and also that Boyfriend is so understanding!

[jason2459]

I've not had any issues using prazipro with any of my wrasses including leopard wrasses. Just make sure they are eating first.

[vitodog]

Am I the only one who read that D2Mini is starting a quarantine tank and thought "Great, now his quarantine tank is going to be nicer than my main tank!" lol

Great info in this thread! I'd never heard of the tank transfer method before.

I had the same thought. Discusting:facepalm:

[Sk8r]

I don't acclimate: I set the salinity to accommodate the store/source/incoming fish and put them right on in, so there's no acclimatation-damage.

I prefer no sand or rock, because that's where ich hangs out between fishes. No cycle, just clean basic tank, with a pvc pipe to hide in. I don't medicate unless I have a diagnosis and a condition. Hypo if brought up safely to tank salinity is not a bad choice, either.

You adjust your salinity very slowly, over the 4 weeks of qt, and the fish has not been stressed or medicated for stuff he hasn't got, and he's not plunged from a bag into a fight against the tank bully. He eats, he sleeps in his pipe, and he becomes confident food will happen tomorrow too.

[TheRuss]

I am cycling my tank now. I have a QT tank as this will be my new process. Is there any reason I should QT the first few fish I put in there? I had not planned on it.

[eeyore357]

In short. Yes.

[d2mini]

I don't acclimate: I set the salinity to accommodate the store/source/incoming fish and put them right on in, so there's no acclimatation-damage.

I prefer no sand or rock, because that's where ich hangs out between fishes. No cycle, just clean basic tank, with a pvc pipe to hide in. I don't medicate unless I have a diagnosis and a condition. Hypo if brought up safely to tank salinity is not a bad choice, either.

You adjust your salinity very slowly, over the 4 weeks of qt, and the fish has not been stressed or medicated for stuff he hasn't got, and he's not plunged from a bag into a fight against the tank bully. He eats, he sleeps in his pipe, and he becomes confident food will happen tomorrow too.

Thanks for the post.
So no TT Method for you?

I'm still unsure. Quick is nice, but I'm worried about the added stress of all that transferring.

[d2mini]

I had the same thought. Discusting:facepalm:

Funny guys! :lmao:

[asylumdown]

I'm not a big fan of the permanently set up QT tank just for observation for the simple reason that if you get a fish, put it in your QT, and it turns out it does have some sort of illness like ich, your QT tank and all it's equipment now either needs to be fallowed for 72 days (which is a looooong time if you're in a fish buying phase), or broken down, cleaned, and re-cycled. Yes you've dodge a bullet with your display, but maintaining a QT tank is at least half as much time and effort as a "real" tank in terms of water changes, tests, etc., so I'd be pretty unhappy to have it exposed to something that would require a fallow period.

My preferred routine is the tank transfer method as a default prophylactic on every fish using two 15 gallon tanks, each with a small powerhead, heater, light, thermometer, and PVC pipe. I use conditioned tap water and the cheapest salt I can find. They're on the counter in my laundry room next to a sink, so it's pretty easy to do it. With two of everything I don't bother with bleach, just rinse the equipment and let dry on the counter for three days.

Depending on the fish and if it's eating, I'll dose prazipro for the last two transfers.

I also have a reasonably sized canister filter and used to keep all it's bio-media and filter foam hanging in bags in my sump. If after the TT protocol the fish still needed more observation or time to fatten up, I'd set up the filter on one of the TT tanks, fill it with the media from my sump, and just monitor for ammonia.

Pluses: you eliminate any possibility of ich before you expose the fish to something you've invested time into getting cycled up; nothing to maintain between new stock additions; new fish are always added to a guaranteed parasite free environment when you bring them home – if it comes down with something there will never be a question of whether it caught it from the last fish in your QT system or not; forces you to think long and hard if you actually need that impulse bought fish.

Minuses: Tank transfer method is a PITA no matter what way you cut it; to be economical in time and money you need to use smallish tanks (makes it hard to buy grown up versions of big fish); not sure how to adapt this method to corals (would you need to?); forces you to think long and hard if you actually need that impulse bought fish.

[igot2gats]

For healthy looking, eating fish:

Once the fish is in QT and eating, I give it a FW dip. Once the fish is back in the QT and eating after the FW dip, I begin treating with Cupramine.

No TTM for me.

[Mrs. Music]

I started using Seachem Stability for QT and treatment tank, and have had good outcomes so far.

[ca1ore]

I keep a 'reservoir' of biomax in a phosban 550 cannister on my main sump so I can have an instantly cycled QT as required. I use tank water for the QT, adjusted to incoming salinity. Use NGP initially for all fish, followed by chloroquine phosphate for parasite suceptible fish, followed by two rounds of prazipro. All the while feedinga s frequently as possible. Use salt in thee ATO to restore normal salinity. Entire process takes 8-12 weeks.

[d2mini]

So I've got two fish in QT for observation, 24 hours so far.
Both fish came from the LFS, where they've been for weeks. Completely healthy looking, eating, colorful, etc. Two fish that I previously would have had no reservation about tossing in the display tank. So how long do I need to keep them in there???

[eeyore357]

Personally I would do a minimum of 6 weeks but that's if everything goes perfect in QT.

[d2mini]

So it could take 6 weeks for any sign of disease to show up?
6 weeks more than it's already been (minimum 3 weeks at lfs)?

[eeyore357]

I wouldn't count the time at the lfs. I'm just starting in this hobby but everything I've read says 6-8 weeks. Maybe someone more experienced will chime in.

[eeyore357]

The life cycle of ich, for example, can go as long as 72 days. It's usually 24 days so I think that's why 42-56 days is recommended.

[Christian J]

My question for those running a cycled QT 24/7, say you bring home fish from wherever, drop them into the QT and a week later find out they have a bad case of ICH. My understanding is you will have to disassemble the tank and let everything dry out for 24 hrs to remove the ICH in the tank/filter, ect. I can see that as a real PITA, draining, cleaning, refilling and cycling all over again. How do you guys get around that?

you can beat the ich life cycle with a fallow period. it doesn't require drying things out, just removing any potential hosts for the parasite (read as fish).

[...]

if i were to see a fish with an active infection, i would remove them to a dedicate hospital tank for treatment, and allow the QT to remain fallow (fishless) for 72 days.

But where do you move an infected fish after the hospital tank treatment? You can't move it back to the quarantine tank (or it may become infected again), so it seems to me you need a second quarantine tanks while the first one lies fallow?

[eeyore357]

Yes if that is the route you go with(no medications in qt). I have 2 tanks a qt/hospital tank and a display. I dont worry about beneficial bacteria in the qt. I just medicate and do water changes as some treatments can kill the beneficial bacteria anyway. This way seems like it will be less of a headache for me. If you don't make your own rodi I can see this being a problem.

[igot2gats]

I wouldn't count the time at the lfs.

Agreed. The clock starts when it's at your house.

As far as how long: 30 days minimum. 6 weeks ideal.

[d2mini]

Agreed. The clock starts when it's at your house.

As far as how long: 30 days minimum. 6 weeks ideal.

Ok, but I'm trying to understand why.
What could take that long to pop up?

[jason2459]

Ok, but I'm trying to understand why.
What could take that long to pop up?

In the shared system at the LFS the fish could have picked up something in that last day before you picked it up.

[Mrs. Music]

Ok, but I'm trying to understand why.
What could take that long to pop up?

Check out all the stickies. I thought I had a really nice article saved on my iPad, but I can not find it...darn it. If I find it I'll post it. Otherwise, the stickied articles posted by snorvich are very informative.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=87

[Mrs. Music]

So why the new interest in setting up a QT?