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View Full Version : New Anti-Collecton Legislation introduced in Hawai'i


Deinonych
01/23/2015, 09:11 PM
Emotions continue to trump scientific evidence, it seems. :sad1:

http://www.reef2rainforest.com/2015/01/23/first-2015-hawaii-aquarium-bill-introduced/

billsreef
01/24/2015, 07:33 AM
Yup, it's a strictly emotion thing with the people driving that movement. They are right up there with PETA. If they really wanted to "save the fish" they would also be trying to shut down the commercial fishery for food fish. Though somehow I wouldn't be surprised if many of many of the people pushing to ban aquarium fish collection have no problem ordering the grouper or the mahi when they go out to dinner, and discuss banning the aquarium trade.

Deinonych
01/24/2015, 08:47 AM
My thoughts exactly, Bill. I also think they consider the aquarium trade an easy target, and one they think they can beat. The fishing industry has a lot more resources to bring to bear.

AdamNC
01/24/2015, 09:20 AM
People will complain about anything to make themselves feel better and/or bandwagon to make themselves look good.

tkeracer619
02/22/2015, 09:07 AM
Those are dangerous waters to collect in. What with Angurus diverus lurking about.

I've overheard arguments at the boat dock in which I thought someone would die... "we ever see you there with your _____ nets again your boats going to be on the bottom with you in it..."

Pretty sure they were in an area where they weren't supposed to be and using large drift nets from the convo.

Everything adds up but blocking it completely is an extreme measure. I've seen a guy netting fish for his aquarium on the beach, nobody seemed to care there.

3FordFamily
02/22/2015, 09:56 AM
People will complain about anything to make themselves feel better and/or bandwagon to make themselves look good.


Boy, isn't tbat the truth..

No room for logic just follow the herd

Timfish
02/22/2015, 01:25 PM
Here's a related story on PBS's News Hour: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/tropical-fish-show/

Interesting that the research by marine biologists from multiple univerisities, WWF and state universities is called psuedoscience. Activists will point to the data showing the Yellow Tang population is lower in the areas where they can be collected than in protected areas as justification to stop collection but totally ignore the data done by the same researchers showing that as the Yellow Tang population goes up many other species go down. Notably the Achilles Tang is more populous in areas where it IS collected than in the protected areas where it has to compete with more Yellow Tangs. Activists are also ignoring the research showing one of the most serious threats to reefs is the overfishing of sharks, one of the adverse side affects is the increase of small herbivores (like Yellow Tangs). Here's a link to Hawai'i's Department of Aquatic Resources reports to the Legislature, the 2010 and 2015 reports specificly deal with the West Hawai'i Regional Fishery and the Yellow Tang issue: http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/reports/

alton
02/23/2015, 05:45 AM
Thanks for the PBS link. What is sad is everyone knows in the trade that Hawaiian fish are healthier and have a much better chance to make it in your tank, so for the lady who has nothing better to do than mess with fishermen and claim that the losses are huge is ignorant.

Dmorty217
02/23/2015, 06:19 AM
People are ignorant by nature and have to be taught not to be so ignorant. I mean Scientology is a religion that seemingly smart, successful people believe and follow... The really sad part is the people that want to pass this BS are the same ones that enjoy whatever ocean caught food they are eating for dinner and never think twice about it. You have facts and logic, and then you have people without facts and logic that follow agendas. I think it is pretty clear what is driving this legislation

GreshamH
02/24/2015, 03:33 PM
Those are dangerous waters to collect in. What with Angurus diverus lurking about.

I've overheard arguments at the boat dock in which I thought someone would die... "we ever see you there with your _____ nets again your boats going to be on the bottom with you in it..."

Pretty sure they were in an area where they weren't supposed to be and using large drift nets from the convo.

Everything adds up but blocking it completely is an extreme measure. I've seen a guy netting fish for his aquarium on the beach, nobody seemed to care there.

Barrier nets often are confused with drift nets by laymen. Very different approach, with a much lower yield. Not to mention they are selective, and they target which species they collect off the barrier net.

Eric Boerner
02/25/2015, 11:38 AM
I don't understand what all of your guy's problems are.

Hawaiians have been particularly ****ed off that they cannot have a reef tank, yet the state allows export of the very fish Hawaiian's are not allowed to keep. Why wouldn't the state make it illegal to export it's local fish too?

This has nothing to do with environmentalism, it is all about fair trade and use.

Oh, but quick! Get on the PIJAC bandwagon and send them a ton of money so they can fight this atrocity too!

GreshamH
02/25/2015, 12:46 PM
Hawaiians can have fish tanks with marine fish and certain local inverts, so being able to send only fish and those certain inverts really doesn't seem like an issue to me?

http://www.aquariumfishhawaii.com/

Timfish
02/25/2015, 01:06 PM
I don't understand what all of your guy's problems are.

Hawaiians have been particularly ****ed off that they cannot have a reef tank, yet the state allows export of the very fish Hawaiian's are not allowed to keep. Why wouldn't the state make it illegal to export it's local fish too?

This has nothing to do with environmentalism, it is all about fair trade and use.

Oh, but quick! Get on the PIJAC bandwagon and send them a ton of money so they can fight this atrocity too!

It's not uncommon for a state to outlaw the keeping of native game fish. This may have changed recently but I have had friends comment on seeing yellow tangs in aquaria in Hawai'i so at least in the recent past they could keep some native fish.

The research being conducted by researchers from multiple universities, state and federal agencies and being overseen and funded by NOAA shows the 2013 Yellow Tang populations are at levels comparable to what was seen before the aquarium trade developed which argues it is being well managed. It also shows that the increase in Yellow Tang populations is at the cost of other native species with several species showing higher populations in areas they can be collected than in protected areas where they have more Yellow Tangs to compete with. So having more Yellow Tangs may not be a good thing.

Unfortunately the Yellow Tang population in the late '70s almost certainly was not representative of pristine reef ecosystems as by then Hawai'i had been conducting a "Shark Control" program indescriminately killing sharks for a couple decades. For those not aware one of the symptoms of a degraded reef ecosystem is an increase in small herbivores allowed by a loss of apex predators. What is of potential concern is the 2014 recruitment of young Yellow Tangs which was almost 400% over what has ever been documented. In another year or two as they mature Hawai'i's Department of Land and Natural Resources may have to take aggressive action to remove plague levels.

GreshamH
02/25/2015, 02:12 PM
You've been allowed to keep tropical marine fish in Hawaii for as long as I've been in the industry (20+ years).

Da Maui life
02/25/2015, 02:19 PM
Hawaiians can have fish tanks with marine fish and certain local inverts, so being able to send only fish and those certain inverts really doesn't seem like an issue to me?

http://www.aquariumfishhawaii.com/

The local people of all ethnic backgrounds, not just ‘Hawaiians’ can have certain types of marine fish, as some are banned for export and personal use.

Da Maui life
02/25/2015, 02:24 PM
Yup, it's a strictly emotion thing with the people driving that movement.

And many others movements in Hawaii
.

GreshamH
02/25/2015, 02:46 PM
The local people of all ethnic backgrounds, not just ‘Hawaiians’ can have certain types of marine fish, as some are banned for export and personal use.

Hawaiian used as like Californian ;)

Da Maui life
02/25/2015, 03:16 PM
Hawaiian used as like Californian ;)

Hawaii is very stereotypical, you won't be called a Californian here.:rollface:

GreshamH
02/25/2015, 04:47 PM
Hawaii is very stereotypical, you won't be called a Californian here.:rollface:

Good for Hawaii, doesn't change my use of it. I am not talking race here, just you.

Da Maui life
02/25/2015, 08:23 PM
I am not talking race here, just you.

it was not about race. It was a clarification in your choice of the word that's all.:wavehand:

GreshamH
02/26/2015, 11:22 AM
it was not about race. It was a clarification in your choice of the word that's all.:wavehand:

Problem here is, you didn't ask for clarification... you jumped to my use of it as racial, and it wasn't. If you wanted clarification, you went about it all wrong. But moving on as this has NOTHING to do with the thread, nor the validity of what I said.

Da Maui life
02/26/2015, 07:59 PM
Problem here is, you didn't ask for clarification... you jumped to my use of it as racial, and it wasn't. If you wanted clarification, you went about it all wrong. But moving on as this has NOTHING to do with the thread, nor the validity of what I said.

Pfff. You got one hard head Brah

GreshamH
02/27/2015, 04:31 PM
Moving on, Brah... got anything to add to the thread?

billsreef
02/27/2015, 04:50 PM
Guys, don't make me pull this thread over.....

GreshamH
02/27/2015, 04:52 PM
Hey, I'm just trying to move it along now, Bill. You know me, and have for quite a long time.... you know the subject is one I have been active with for over a decade.

domination2580
02/27/2015, 05:03 PM
I don't see their argument betting successful, if it truly is about not being able to keep the same fish that are being exported then they should have a better chance getting it legal to keep aquariums. There is no absolute reason why they shouldn't export fish unless endangered. And you are right, it is hypocritical to try to "save" the fish but go out to eat and order fish. A lot of aquarists actually learn as they go and there had been a lot of breeding. If one does become endangered and someone has it being bred in aquarium....how are they going to be upset if you were to repopulate the area. A lot of people have this hobby down and they do great....