Tank is in a funk, need some ideas.....

[rovster]

It definitely hurts my pride to have to ask for help here, but I'm all out of ideas. I've been keeping SPS for a couple years now and I've had some great success and consider myself to be at least somewhat knowledgeable on the subject. Anyhow, my tank is in a really weird funk right now and its time to ask for some help. I appreciate any help and suggestions I can get as I am starting to really get frustrated. I apologize in advance for the long post, but I figure the more info I can give, the better the advice I might get.

Some current stats:
-Tank is about 130 gallons total volume, SPS frag dominant
-Fuge with rock and chaeto (chaeto growing well)
-Using RO with Chloramine kit, 0 TDS ( I test with a hand held meter when I start and just before I finish making water.
-3 Radion Pros
-SRO XP2000 Skimmer
-3 MP40s
-Apex and BRS dosers

-SG 35PPT, digital and handheld refractometers, pinpoint solution
-Cal 450 (Salifert)
-Alk 7.7 (Hanna)
-Mag 1390ish (Salifert)
-Phos 0.07 (Hanna ULR) (More to come on this later)
-NO3 0 (Salifert)
-K+ >400 (Red Sea)


OK so a little history. I set up the tank about 6 months ago. I used mostly Dry rock that was cleaned and cured for over a year (long story)and added rock from my other tank and a friends tank to seed. I slowly started adding frags from my other tank. As they did well I added more. When I felt things were going well I purchased a large online order of frags and "stocked" my tank. For 2-3 months things were going spectacular. Polyp extension was ridiculous and growth and color was good to great. I did have some cyano and some snot looking algae (mild form of dino?) but it never got out of control and I just attributed it to "new tank syndrome". It was slowly going away so I was not worried and did nothing to try and combat it.

My smaller tank experienced a crash via bacteria bloom (went cloudy) and I transfered a few corals from that tank to try and save them. Well, 2 weeks later my current tank crashed (went cloudy) and I lost 90% of my Acros over the span of one weekend. All montis, LPS, nem, and zoas survived. This was 3 months ago.

Anyway, I ramped up the the water changes and after 4-6 weeks things started to stabilize. The acros that survived were starting to color up again, polyp extension was almost back to ridiculous, and a buddy gave me a couple of tester frags. I also added some more fish so my feeding went up from where it was. The tester frags were doing great, basing out and getting better color than in my buddies tank so I took that as a sign that things were on the up and up.

So I got another large online order basically replacing a lot of the frags I had lost. 2 weeks before I got my order I started to notice a few things not looking as good as they were, but it was not bad so I just made a mental note and kept an eye on things. The week before I got my frags a couple of corals started looking a little too much like they did before the last crash. To be safe, and anticipating another bacterial problem I decided to start Prodibio to counteract any bacterial imbalance and some of the corals were darkening. When I got my order of frags they came in a little bleached so I turned down my lights from 65% to 45% so I wouldn't shock them. Over the next few weeks, the new frags that came in started to regain some color and my existing corals continued to decline. Some look OK, most look like crap. Nothing has died to this day, but they look like they are on their way.

When I started Prodibio, they warn against GFO use so cut back on it but did not eliminate it. As my corals started to decline my Alk started to increase so I started to play with my dosers to get it dialed in. It never fluctuated more than 0.3-0.5. A few weeks into Prodibio, I did notice that the cyano and snot was improving. At the time my Alk was at 8.5. I started to notice a lot of burnt tips. Although Prodibio use is not associated with Alk burn, I am familear with Alk burn from previous experience with carbon dosing so I thought it would be safe to bring my Alk down slowly to where its at now.

I did have one day where I accidentally left my Cal doser on and I did get a huge cal spike to 500+. That was 3 weeks ago and Cal normalized within a few days and for 2 weeks Alk and Cal have been stable. I also noticed that my Phos has increased from 0.04 to about 0.08, but not I've got it down to around 0.06-0.07 by incresing my GFO.

Below are a few of my general observations.
-Zoas look amazing, something I have not experienced in a long time.
-Favias look very good
-Hammer is retracted, looks irritated, and looks slightly bleached
-Birds nest have STN, and look irritated
-Cyphastreas look good
-Setosa has a deep rich color
-Encrusting montis have polyps retracted and overall look bad. Base color is mostly gone
-Most acros have lost their luster. Most have lost most if not all polyp extension. They have darkened substantially and overall look irritated, like something in the water is aggravating them. They look like there is either too many nutrients in the water or they are not getting enough light. I'm up to about 60% on my lights which is almost where I was when things looked amazing. Acros have almost a bluish greyish sheen to them, and they have lost most if not all their "glow". They do not glow under the blue LEDs at all or the ones that still do have suffered significantly. This has been going on for weeks. Some are showing STN, but almost all of it is from the tips. I am not really seeing base recession at all.

When I got the high (for my tank) phos reading I did cut back on the feeding and put the tank on a diet. Nitrate never read anything, always 0.

I am running carbon but not much. I change it every 2-3 weeks and its in a bag. The sump has a good but of slime and some cyano, but every sump I've seen looks like that. I have to clean the glass maybe 1-2 times per week. I have noticed that since starting the Prodibio, my skimmate has gone from a deep dark green to more of a blackish green but its still watery.

Another thing worth noting that I did switch from RSCP to IO after the crash because I was ramping up the water changes, the RSCP just has too much stuff in it and I didn't want to drive up my levels too much. It is worth mentioning that did go through a month long period after I had been on the IO for a while where things were looking good and improving.

I am planning a huge water change for tomorrow, 40% or so. I normally do 10-15% weekly. My thinking is to try and "reset" things a bit. That said today I'm seeing even more tip burn. Its subtle but there.

I apologize for the long post but I am at a loss. My corals look like my tank is a nutrient sink, my test kits tell me otherwise, film algae is minimal and there is not a spec of hair algae. Brown snot is there but minimal. I don't know what to do. Part of me just wants to ignore the tank and just let things go and run their course. The other part of me tells me that my corals are not happy and are asking for a postive change so they can recover. I have stopped all supplemets as of 1-2 weeks ago (Pohls, AcroPower, CoralVit).

I'm lost....:sad2:

[vette.tech]

Make a cliff notes version of that and I think you'll get more help, I know the details help but when I saw a long post like that I never read them

[rovster]

LOL. Cliff notes.


1. New tank looks amazing
2. Crashes when introduce "infected corals"
3. 6 Weeks later looking good again
4. Slow decline, corals darkening, less polyp extension.
5. Start Prodibio, lots of cyano and brown snot gone, no algae
6. Corals continue to decline, dark and ragged, lots of tip burn, no base recession
7. Have put tank on diet, no improvement.
8. Notice increase in phos, increase GFO, levels improving but corals continue to decline.

Help.....:D

PS, I have checked for stray voltage before anyone asks. Forgot that detail, LOL!

[dg3147]

AEFW? No QT...grab some struggling frags and dip 'em to check. Red bugs? I know u have non-SPS affected too, but those may be incidental casualties. I think u should do a dip.

Another guess...new tank essentially --is NO3 too low? Maybe add a pinch of Sodium Nitrate and see if it helps? Do you see a slight rebound after a 20% water change?

[tripdad]

I am a long, long way from an expert but if it was me I would try and get some measurable nitrate, say 2.0 or so, and then verify all testing equipment. I had corals "drying out" on there flesh and I verified everything and found my calibration fluid had gone bad for my refractometer and I had zero iodine. Keep hearing "reef tanks don't use iodine" but it was 0. I had never tested for that or K before. So in short... verify test, balance your NO3 and PO4, and test what you didn't if all else is good. Just spitballing some ideas from my own trip.

[rovster]

AEFW? No QT...grab some struggling frags and dip 'em to check. Red bugs? I know u have non-SPS affected too, but those may be incidental casualties. I think u should do a dip.

Another guess...new tank essentially --is NO3 too low? Maybe add a pinch of Sodium Nitrate and see if it helps? Do you see a slight rebound after a 20% water change?

Not pests. I have very intimate experience with AEFW and Redbugs, have been through both several times. But I did remove some suspect pieces and dipped them. Nothing. I also baste them frequently and nothing comes off. The appearance of the coral SCREAMS a water quality/parameter/irritant issue. I thought about burn from increased GFO but the problem was there before.

Funny you mention the nitrate thing. A while ago I was contemplating dosing nitrate to help bring down phosphate. The thing is my corals do not have that "starved" look. Actually they remind me of when I had a nitrate spike in my previous tank. I have used 2 different nitrate kits and they have been consistent. I always assumed the nitrate was being tied up by the cyano, chaeto, slime, etc. For a while I was dosing lots of AA in an attempt to increase it but no improvement. After the crash my nitrate did go up to around 2 but it came back down shortly after. Thanks for the input...

[rovster]

I am a long, long way from an expert but if it was me I would try and get some measurable nitrate, say 2.0 or so, and then verify all testing equipment. I had corals "drying out" on there flesh and I verified everything and found my calibration fluid had gone bad for my refractometer and I had zero iodine. Keep hearing "reef tanks don't use iodine" but it was 0. I had never tested for that or K before. So in short... verify test, balance your NO3 and PO4, and test what you didn't if all else is good. Just spitballing some ideas from my own trip.


My previous tank did great with nitrate 2-5. This tank for some reason never had a nitrate reading. Crystal clear on Salifert. I thought about the Iodine but cant imagine it would have such an impact. Maybe I should look into getting a kit. I was thinking about having a friend check SG, although I have calibrated both my refractometer and my digital meter with both calibration solution AND RO, and they are very close to eachother, not off enough where I would think that would be a problem. I will double check with my friend though so thanks.

[tgbaby1]

Have you considered sending a water sample to Triton? I was experiencing some weird issues in my sps tank but all parameters were always inline and stable. Sent in a water sample and found out there was a high level of copper present. You might find something you weren't expecting.

[rovster]

I have already been looking into that. I guess it would give me a good baseline and snapshot of how the water is. Great idea. I'll try and get some pics up later......

[swk]

How much water is io and how much rscp is remaining in your system approximately?

[tinmanhouston]

I had 1 tank crashed and a semi tank crash recently and all of them are related to my alkalinity. The first crashed was all my fault. All my sps were growing well with great color and then i read about using kalk to raise my ph up. My ph is always in the low range (7.8 ~ 8) since I am using a carx reactor. Of course I overdosed my tank with kalk and my alk went up to 12dkh from between 7 and 7.5dkh. All my sps had the symptoms you have above and eventually all went to the bone yard.

The semi tank crash recently was from an kinked co2 tubing line which cause my alk to dip down below 6dkh. I lost a few frags and colonies but the rest are recovering. Anyway I changed my salt mix from Oceanic to Red Sea Pro and added carbon in a bag in the sump and things are getting better. I think I got some bad batches of Oceanic salt mixes. The burned tips on your acros are likely caused by high alk rather than pests. Do a large water change if you want to start all over but I would do just a regular water change (10% for my tank) to minimize the change in your tank parameters. I hope this helps.

And for vette.tech here are my cliff notes :)
1. co2 tubing clogged so low alk
2. change salt mix (suspecting bad batches)
3. added carbon (bacteria infections? and chemical warfare since it's a mixed reef)
4. stn stopped, color is back, pe is back

[rovster]

How much water is io and how much rscp is remaining in your system approximately?

I can't even fathom a guess. I have been off RSCP for a few months. One of the waterchanges was 50% and been doing 10-15% weekly.

[rovster]

I had 1 tank crashed and a semi tank crash recently and all of them are related to my alkalinity. The first crashed was all my fault. All my sps were growing well with great color and then i read about using kalk to raise my ph up. My ph is always in the low range (7.8 ~ 8) since I am using a carx reactor. Of course I overdosed my tank with kalk and my alk went up to 12dkh from between 7 and 7.5dkh. All my sps had the symptoms you have above and eventually all went to the bone yard.

The semi tank crash recently was from an kinked co2 tubing line which cause my alk to dip down below 6dkh. I lost a few frags and colonies but the rest are recovering. Anyway I changed my salt mix from Oceanic to Red Sea Pro and added carbon in a bag in the sump and things are getting better. I think I got some bad batches of Oceanic salt mixes. The burned tips on your acros are likely caused by high alk rather than pests. Do a large water change if you want to start all over but I would do just a regular water change (10% for my tank) to minimize the change in your tank parameters. I hope this helps.

And for vette.tech here are my cliff notes :)
1. co2 tubing clogged so low alk
2. change salt mix (suspecting bad batches)
3. added carbon (bacteria infections? and chemical warfare since it's a mixed reef)
4. stn stopped, color is back, pe is back

I check my alk every day or every other day and its been steady. No spikes and no major dips. Highest it got was around 8.5 and lowest was 7.5, but that has been over the course of a few months and it hasn't been erratic. Its been a slow deliberate change.

[swk]

I can't even fathom a guess. I have been off RSCP for a few months. One of the waterchanges was 50% and been doing 10-15% weekly.


Gotcha. Just curious as I was having burnt tip issues with Red Sea blue bucket that completely went away with a switch to IO. This decision was largely made after seeing triton results on fresh made blue bucket Red Sea salt. I wish I had an obvious solution for you, as you've come across as nothing but helpful on this forum.

Good luck!

[dg3147]

Back to the Nitrate "deficit" as a possible issue. I had a similar funk for almost a year and rebound was exactly timed with adding Sodium NO3. Anecdotal sample of 1 person, but it might be worth buying some online (I found it on amazon pretty easily) and adding a couple teaspoons. PM me if it works...would love to hear some success here.

I has a hard time getting NO3 up with overfeeding. I had to add the chemical directly.

[dadummy]

check all your equipment, make sure nothing is rusting out or corroding. I went through with what you are describing on a frags system. It was driving me nuts and had me doubting my reefing skills, just couldn't figure out what was wrong. Tried dosing stuff, not dosing stuff, switched two parts, even went and upgraded the lights that worked fine on the previous set up.
I ended up pulling out a frag rack to toss out some corals and wash/ scrape the algae off the rack. Looked down on the sand and there was a crusty corroded penny. Kid was taping pennies to nerf darts, thinking they go faster.
Ended up running Seachem Cuprisorb for a couple months and everything is back to normal, except the new lights are jamming

just a thought

[Reef Dude]

I see that you mentioned chloramines as part of your RODI unit. In my experience, the chloramines filters (catalytic carbon filter and the carbon block) do not last very long. Not nearly as long as advertised. For example, I run approximately 1000 gallons (total of waste and rodi water) through my rodi unit before these need replaced, and the chloramine level in my water is only 1.5 ppb coming into the house. I used to dive myself crazy trying to figure out why water changes weren't helping when my tank started to show signs of stress, and it was because it was the quality of the new saltwater (and top off water) causing the problem. Ultimately, when I changed the chloramines filters in my rodi unit, the tank bounced back right away. Now, when I see my monti caps (my canary in a coal mine corals) starting to fade a little and perhaps a small patch of cyano forming, I know it's time to replace the chloramines filters. I know this isn't the most scientific approach, but I think we all know when we see corals that just don't "look right" to our eyes because we stare at them so much everyday, and when we are on the verge of a much bigger problem.

In my experience, I've teetered on the verge of tank crashes when my alkalinity swung too quickly, when nutrients were too low, and when something needed replaced in my rodi unit. Fortunately, I have not had the pleasure of dealing with pests, so I can't chime in on that.

[Eastone]

I'd probably guess the nitrates as mentioned before or perhaps your calcium is a tad too high, I like running mine at 420 when my KH is around 7-8

[rovster]

I see that you mentioned chloramines as part of your RODI unit. In my experience, the chloramines filters (catalytic carbon filter and the carbon block) do not last very long. Not nearly as long as advertised. For example, I run approximately 1000 gallons (total of waste and rodi water) through my rodi unit before these need replaced, and the chloramine level in my water is only 1.5 ppb coming into the house. I used to dive myself crazy trying to figure out why water changes weren't helping when my tank started to show signs of stress, and it was because it was the quality of the new saltwater (and top off water) causing the problem. Ultimately, when I changed the chloramines filters in my rodi unit, the tank bounced back right away. Now, when I see my monti caps (my canary in a coal mine corals) starting to fade a little and perhaps a small patch of cyano forming, I know it's time to replace the chloramines filters. I know this isn't the most scientific approach, but I think we all know when we see corals that just don't "look right" to our eyes because we stare at them so much everyday, and when we are on the verge of a much bigger problem.

In my experience, I've teetered on the verge of tank crashes when my alkalinity swung too quickly, when nutrients were too low, and when something needed replaced in my rodi unit. Fortunately, I have not had the pleasure of dealing with pests, so I can't chime in on that.
That's one of those things that's floating in the back of my mind. Can you get a 0 TDS reading if chloramine or ammonia is making it through? My filters are about 3 months old and I always check the water with a handheld meter both at the beginning and end of the water making session.

[ridetheducati]

What color is the dusting on panels? Light Tan, Brown, or Green? Adjust nutrient levels to allow Green dusting.

[rovster]

I'm colorblind but pretty sure it's green. There is still some bright green cyano and brown snot but a fraction of what it was when the tank was doing well, go figure! I'm assuming the Prodibio is helping on that front.

[dg3147]

That's one of those things that's floating in the back of my mind. Can you get a 0 TDS reading if chloramine or ammonia is making it through? My filters are about 3 months old and I always check the water with a handheld meter both at the beginning and end of the water making session.

Yes you can still get a 0 TDS with chloramines. You need a separate chloramine test kit.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/insta-test-free-total-chlorine-strips-lamotte.html

Though, I am not sold on that being the problem --even if you do have them. So many reefers do not test or treat for them. But, it's worth a try.

Here's the link for sodium nitrate too:
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=1sn

Do you notice a slight rebound after a water change? Like the above user noted, it will often by the monticaps looking a little less "dusty".

[Wills612]

What color is the dusting on panels? Light Tan, Brown, or Green? Adjust nutrient levels to allow Green dusting.

What would those color suggest? Brown being high nutrients?

[rovster]

I am planning a large waterchange later today. I also took some pics yesterday that I just uploaded this morning. Stay tuned for some pics of ragged coral:(

[Reef Dude]

That's one of those things that's floating in the back of my mind. Can you get a 0 TDS reading if chloramine or ammonia is making it through? My filters are about 3 months old and I always check the water with a handheld meter both at the beginning and end of the water making session.

Yes, chloramines, chlorine, ammonia, etc. will not show up as tds. That's why I used to get confused... My tds would be zero, I know my stuff with husbandry, my tank would be super stable, but corals would decline. Water changes seemed to make things worse sometimes. But changing the rodi filters would show immediate improvement. That's how I tracked it back to the rodi water quality. I know chloramines are not a big deal for some people, but I swear that they have a bad effect on my tank when the chloramines filters are exhausted. It seems like you know what you're doing, and I feel like I've been in the same situation as you... Stable water parameters, not a newbie, know what you're doing, have declining corals no matter what you try, etc.

I've spent so much time in the past trying all kinds of things when my corals start showing signs of decline, but when everything else is in check and stable, it has come down to replacing some/all of the rodi filter even if I didn't think they should be exhausted yet.

FYI... I have not had luck with lamotte's total chlorine test strips to determine when my catalytic carbon cartridge is exhausted. I think my eyes can't see the color differences well... Especially when comparing 1 ppm versus 0 ppm. It all looks the same to me. But my corals let me know.

[rovster]

OK, you've convinced me. I appreciate the post, you seem to get what I'm going through. I will change my filters for the next water changing session. I changed them all right after the crash despite them not being but 6 months old. That said, before I started with the chloramine filters, my membrane got shot rather quickly and I would burn through DI resin like no tomorrow. My resin is still that blue color, as opposed to before it would start to turn brown after just a few sessions. Maybe I should just change the carbon block? Thoughts?

[Peter Eichler]

Depending on what prodibio you're using, it's just carbon dosing in cute, expensive little glass vials. Dosing Bioptim and Biodigest is just carbon dosing with the superfluous addition of vials of bacteria... You starting this on a tank with already low nutrients and running GFO and GAC 24/7 is the issue in my opinion. Hard to say for sure without knowing your feeding regimen and fish load, but this is what I would be looking at first and foremost.

Your PO4 was probably on the rise because you drove nitrogen so low that carbon dosing was no longer removing much PO4.

[rovster]

OK, as promised, some pictures.

First one is my Slimer. It survived the crash, but barely. Lost a LOT of the glow and had some recession.....

Here is POST crash, but looking decent.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7937_zpscd4jbbfg.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7937_zpscd4jbbfg.jpg.html)

Here is yesterday. See how ragged it looks. You can even appreciate some growth but its lost all its glow, and has STN...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7967_zpsw1w6lqrd.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7967_zpsw1w6lqrd.jpg.html)


Blue Tort Pre-Crash...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7567_zps8ccdef61.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7567_zps8ccdef61.jpg.html)


Post crash and recovering(about 6-8 weeks)....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7825_zps2fdecf9a.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7825_zps2fdecf9a.jpg.html)


Good Bye Tort!
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7957_zps1lkd402a.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7957_zps1lkd402a.jpg.html)


TDF POST crash...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7800_zps882e92bd.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7800_zps882e92bd.jpg.html)

Now with base recession...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7988_zpsav6ztzss.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7988_zpsav6ztzss.jpg.html)


More STN...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7968_zps0bc5jswl.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7968_zps0bc5jswl.jpg.html)

Looking Flat, Burnt tips...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7971_zpsysx2hqy6.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7971_zpsysx2hqy6.jpg.html)

[rovster]

Sunset monti was FULLY recovered after crash and was one of the first to start showing signs that something was amiss...This thing went from almost dead after crash, to looking beautiful again, to looking like this....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7974_zpsonvlbcsk.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7974_zpsonvlbcsk.jpg.html)


PokerStar and Rainbow monti. Same as the Sunset. Survived crash, regained their bright blue bases, and now gone. I think that blue is new. They do look better today, but polyps are mostly retracted....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7951_zpsvci0tv33.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7951_zpsvci0tv33.jpg.html)

[rovster]

This mille used to be amazing...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7962_zpskjlfkilb.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7962_zpskjlfkilb.jpg.html)

Burnt Efflo...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7958_zpsrjes2g5p.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7958_zpsrjes2g5p.jpg.html)

Burnt and flat!
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7965_zpsaz9u4ilv.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7965_zpsaz9u4ilv.jpg.html)

Same coral 6-8 weeks post crash was developing nice yellow tips...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_7864_zps89ac714f.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_7864_zps89ac714f.jpg.html)


I can go on and on, but these pics should be pretty representative of what's going on...

[rovster]

Depending on what prodibio you're using, it's just carbon dosing in cute, expensive little glass vials. Dosing Bioptim and Biodigest is just carbon dosing with the superfluous addition of vials of bacteria... You starting this on a tank with already low nutrients and running GFO and GAC 24/7 is the issue in my opinion. Hard to say for sure without knowing your feeding regimen and fish load, but this is what I would be looking at first and foremost.

Your PO4 was probably on the rise because you drove nitrogen so low that carbon dosing was no longer removing much PO4.

I started the Prodibio because I wanted the bacteria just in case I was in for another bloom. I was hoping that would sort of combat that. I also had the feeling my nutrients were high given the overall darkening of all my acros.

This tank never registered nitrates. To be honest, I was feeding the tank excessively. I had introduced 2 queen anthias and I was dumping food in there to get them feeding. My nitrate was registering 0 and at the time my phos was still holding at around 0.04ish. Once I started the Prodibio, I backed off the GFO and that's when I saw it rise.

Fish load is pretty heavy:
Powder Blue (med/lrg)
Yellow Tang (med)
Flame angel
2 clowns
2 b/g chromis
Purple chromis
2 swissguard basslets
2 purple queen anthias
2 helfrichi firefish
Possum wrasse
Yellow goby
Royal Gramma

I feed usually 2 small feedings during work days, and 3-4 on weekends. Nori every day for tangs. At night depending on how the tank was looking, Acropower, Pohls, CoralVit. I add ReefRoids to my "Food Blend". Food consists of a base of home made food, and I add mysis, bloodworms and sometimes baby brine. For a while, I thought I was feeding an obscene amount, but corals were looking good and my tests were reading fine. I also do not have a bunch of nuisance algae. I hope this clarifies things a bit...

[rovster]

Here is a crappy phone video of my tank post crash and recovering. You can appreciate the fish load.
http://vid1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/9A92D48E-6590-421C-8172-164CCFCC443F_zpsfeefnovw.mp4

[rovster]

Sorry about the baroge of posts. I did a 40 gal water change today. Tank looks really clean. There is some cyano and brown snot, but I've had cleaner tanks. We'll see how things respond. Tomorrow I will run a bunch of tests again and at this point its a wait and see. I also turned down the flow to pre-crash levels but I doubt that is the issue. There is still awesome flow, just not as chaotic as it was.

[Peter Eichler]

Those photos totally look like a tank that has too much being stripped out of the water via carbon dosing and "chemical" filtration. STN, muted colors, burnt tips... The sunset monti really suports that for me. As I've seen time and time again with that corals as well as other orange montis, that when nutrients go too low, they start to lose their deep coloration.

So what exactly are you dosing from prodibio? Also, I must say, the whole bacterial bloom causing a crash in the first place doesn't make much sense, nor does the thought of dosing more bacteria to offset or prevent another.

[rovster]

Those photos totally look like a tank that has too much being stripped out of the water via carbon dosing and "chemical" filtration. STN, muted colors, burnt tips... The sunset monti really suports that for me. As I've seen time and time again with that corals as well as other orange montis, that when nutrients go too low, they start to lose their deep coloration.

So what exactly are you dosing from prodibio? Also, I must say, the whole bacterial bloom causing a crash in the first place doesn't make much sense, nor does the thought of dosing more bacteria to offset or prevent another.

Peter, I respect your opinion and would probably take your advice as gospel. You have one of my favorite tanks. The only thing is all these problems started when I was [what I thought] overfeeding and before the Prodibio. This started maybe 7-8 weeks ago. I started the Prodibio about 5 weeks ago. I do think that with the Prodibio, increased GFO and limited feeding I am stripping the tank currently. I do feel I can do with some increased feeding and as of yesterday I started increasing feeding. I have dealt with starving corals in the past and in general they pale out on me. These corals were darkening. Asfar as the Prodibio, I'm dosing the BioDigest and BioPtim at the recommended doses. I'm not doing the weekly "clean" but bi-weekly. I have always and continue to do weekly water changes. Usually 10-12 gallons. I do think that as of today, a couple of corals look like maybe they are getting better, but this whole time its been a slow decline no matter what I do. Like I said previously, the corals looked like there was too many nutrients. Theyve had that brown grey turdish look. Would love a reply. Thanks Peter!

[Peter Eichler]

Peter, I respect your opinion and would probably take your advice as gospel. You have one of my favorite tanks. The only thing is all these problems started when I was [what I thought] overfeeding and before the Prodibio. This started maybe 7-8 weeks ago. I started the Prodibio about 5 weeks ago. I do think that with the Prodibio, increased GFO and limited feeding I am stripping the tank currently. I do feel I can do with some increased feeding and as of yesterday I started increasing feeding. I have dealt with starving corals in the past and in general they pale out on me. These corals were darkening. Asfar as the Prodibio, I'm dosing the BioDigest and BioPtim at the recommended doses. I'm not doing the weekly "clean" but bi-weekly. I have always and continue to do weekly water changes. Usually 10-12 gallons. I do think that as of today, a couple of corals look like maybe they are getting better, but this whole time its been a slow decline no matter what I do. Like I said previously, the corals looked like there was too many nutrients. Theyve had that brown grey turdish look. Would love a reply. Thanks Peter!

It's a tough call... To me, Acropora that are exposed to higher "nutrients" are often less colorful, but usually look happy as can be when it comes to tissue health. It's a bit of a generalization, but it's something I've observed time and time again over the years. I've been keeping SPS since the early 90's, this whole "burnt tips" thing is something I never observed in a single sps in an aquarium until skimmers improved greatly and people started messing with carbon dosing and routinely driving nutrients really low. People want to blame alkalinity swings and higher alkalinity on a number of maladies in this hobby, but that's also something that came to be when we started driving nutrients really low. It used to be routine to keep a healthy SPS tank at 10-12 dKH. So, whats the problem, the alkalinity level, or the nutrient level? Anyways, getting a bit off track... :P

Your timing that you pointed out doesn't really eliminate low nutrients, in particular low nitrogen as not being the problem. Consider this...

1.) Your tank crashes
2.) Nitrogen is driven higher from the die off
3.) This along with water changes fuels corals to recover
4.) As available nitrates and nitrogen are used up corals start to decline
5.) You falsely diagnose this as a reaction to high nutrients
6.) You start carbon dosing and this only makes matters worse

Just something to consider, maybe I'm way off on this. Best of luck getting this figured out!

Lastly, I'd get a cheap API kit and see if it's coming close to lining up with your checker.

[ridetheducati]

What would those color suggest? Brown being high nutrients?

For an established system, brown indicates excessive bacteria in a carbon based filtration system. Often leading to an ULNS and sterile system.

[dg3147]

I am 70-80% certain it's due to NO3 defecit. Dose a little....don't make me beg. Overfeeding did not raise your NO3...tank is too clean! Your description sounds identical to problem I had. Here are some picks of my monti (I don't have any of the other sps, but they looked just like yours):

Before NO3 doss and after....

[rovster]

I'm still getting through the dosing NO3 thread. I did notice that over the last couple of days tank is looking really clean, which may not be a good thing. I did notice that some of the more healthy corals are starting to lean towards the pale side which is what I expected. My phos this morning was 0.03 which is about as low as I'd like to go. Over the last couple of days I did go back to feeding more and started adding some AcroPower. I did notice one coral I've had for a year that hasn't done anything is starting to shoot up some tips. Maybe its wishful thinking. With some corals the damage is already done. We'll see if they recover. My Palmers Blue Mille is back to bright blue and has good polyp extension. All the "burnt" corals are still burnt. I'll keep things updated and possibly post some new pics in a week or 2. Thanks for all the help thus far.

DG, if you don't mind, what did you end up dosing KNO3 or NaNO3? Where did you get it, how did you mix it up and how much did you dose? Thanks....

[dg3147]

I'm still getting through the dosing NO3 thread. I did notice that over the last couple of days tank is looking really clean, which may not be a good thing. I did notice that some of the more healthy corals are starting to lean towards the pale side which is what I expected. My phos this morning was 0.03 which is about as low as I'd like to go. Over the last couple of days I did go back to feeding more and started adding some AcroPower. I did notice one coral I've had for a year that hasn't done anything is starting to shoot up some tips. Maybe its wishful thinking. With some corals the damage is already done. We'll see if they recover. My Palmers Blue Mille is back to bright blue and has good polyp extension. All the "burnt" corals are still burnt. I'll keep things updated and possibly post some new pics in a week or 2. Thanks for all the help thus far.

DG, if you don't mind, what did you end up dosing KNO3 or NaNO3? Where did you get it, how did you mix it up and how much did you dose? Thanks....

I don't recall the exact dose...though, I am sure dose varies from tank to tank since some tanks might assimilate it immediately and some might not (clearly the dose in a non-living system is always the same, but I imagine some tanks alter the chemical more rapidly than others). I added one teaspoon of Sodium Nitrate to my 75g and the same to my new 200g and got almost identical bumps in my NO3 testing.

I got NaNO3 from a Dudadisel.com (just make sure u order sodium nitrATE....not nitrITE. I almost made that error in the link).

But I doubt the source matters much. Using such a tiny amount.

I just tossed it undissolved right into my sump.

[Piper27]

I agree with peter, and you say for a while you were feeding an obscene amount and things looked good. I would try taking off the gfo and feeding more, or dosing nitrate. Maybe double check your salinity with someone's refractometer. I know the digital units are good but its worth a try. And use 35ppt solution with the refractometer. Some read wrong with ro water.

[Piper27]

I would think it would be a good thing to get your tank to the point where you have to clean your glass every few days or every other day as well. Maybe stop worrying about the phosphate and focus on raising the nitrate. Seems this would not hurt anything and I would think would help.

[markalot]

For what it's worth I've been running with 30 to 40 nitrates and while I'm missing colors the acros in the tank all seem fat and happy. I would guess nutrient issues as well.

For chloramines, wouldn't a dose of Seachem Prime or similar take care of any issue?

[rovster]

Keep in mind things went downhill while I was feeding heavy. I had thought that it just caught up to me. Things don't look too bad today. Definitely not worsening quickly lol.

[Reef Dude]

I'm really interested in how you turn this around. The thing that really gets to me is that photo of the sunset monti that you posted above. That photo is so eerily familiar. That is exactly what my encrusting monti's look like when my tank is starting to take a turn for the worse. While all my other corals in the tank look good and are growing, the montiporas are the first to lose their base color and look like crap when something gets out of whack. But then things turn around (like it did with you) and the monti's regain their base color and polyp extension. And the sometime down the road, it happens again. It's weird... This hobby seems so simple when everything is going well and the tank is on "cruise control", but it can seem so complicated (chasing numbers, supplements, trying all kinds of weird stuff, etc.) when trying to troubleshoot these types of issues. You'll figure this out and get through it, and we'll all learn something from this.

You mentioned that you have a hammer coral that is bleaching and retracted. Do you have any LPS or softies, and if so, how do they look? Are you still scraping algae off the glass every couple of days? I may be way off on this, but if you are scraping algae off the glass every few days or if you are growing algae in the sump, wouldn't that indicate that the nutrients are not too low? Or does the algae rip the nutrients out of the water before the corals can use them? Just thinking out loud. I'm following along and hoping for the best.

[CHSUB]

This advice may not be helpful for your problem, however, why not try NSW? It’s cheaper and easier and will preserve your RO/DI. Most LFS use NSW and some have very nice SPS’ displays (i.e. Strictly Fish). I test my NSW before use with Salifert PO4 and NO3 testers and they are always clear. Hobby grade testers are not accurate enough to give us reliable reading when levels get very low. However, I’m sure NSW provides enough NO3 and PO4 for your corals symbiotic zooxanthellae and with your feeding regiment the corals polyps should get adequate food.

[rovster]

I'm really interested in how you turn this around. The thing that really gets to me is that photo of the sunset monti that you posted above. That photo is so eerily familiar. That is exactly what my encrusting monti's look like when my tank is starting to take a turn for the worse. While all my other corals in the tank look good and are growing, the montiporas are the first to lose their base color and look like crap when something gets out of whack. But then things turn around (like it did with you) and the monti's regain their base color and polyp extension. And the sometime down the road, it happens again. It's weird... This hobby seems so simple when everything is going well and the tank is on "cruise control", but it can seem so complicated (chasing numbers, supplements, trying all kinds of weird stuff, etc.) when trying to troubleshoot these types of issues. You'll figure this out and get through it, and we'll all learn something from this.

You mentioned that you have a hammer coral that is bleaching and retracted. Do you have any LPS or softies, and if so, how do they look? Are you still scraping algae off the glass every couple of days? I may be way off on this, but if you are scraping algae off the glass every few days or if you are growing algae in the sump, wouldn't that indicate that the nutrients are not too low? Or does the algae rip the nutrients out of the water before the corals can use them? Just thinking out loud. I'm following along and hoping for the best.

I have 4 other Favias that look fine, and have full color. Cyphastreas also look good. I had assumed the hammer was irritated from the crazy flow in the tank but it was showing some bleaching and now moreso is looking pale. Tank is definitely cleaner now than it was a month ago. I cleaned the glass 3 days ago and started seeing some spots pop up here and there, but not really needing a cleaning yet. I do think the burning is going away, but some of those corals took a beating so may be months IF they recover. Probably wishful thinking, but I think its getting better. I'm happy that my phos is down now so I feel more comfortable upping the feeding and re-introducing some AcroPower. I am taking it easy, but by no means is the tank on a diet anymore. Alk has been steady for while now, other than a small hiccup when I had the Cal spike. I also slowly raised my alk to pre-crash levels of around 8ish. (Shoot for 142-145 on the checker). I had previously lowered it thinking that was the problem. Obviously not....

[dg3147]

Want me to mail you a bit of NaNO3?

[echopiece]

I've been reading through this post and I keep thinking wow this is similar to my situation right now. I have dealt with pale/drab looking SPS for quite awhile now. Back when I first setup my tank (2 years ago) I ran it as BB and I was definitely nutrient poor. I added a few more fish and started feeding very heavy. The corals responded very well and colored up nicely. After the tank matured, my corals started looking pale again. I have always dealt with higher PO4 (0.08-0.10) and 0 NO3. No matter how much I feed I cannot raise my nitrates. Well after doing a lot of reading and some guidance from a few people on here, I bought some calcium nitrate Ca(NO3)2. Yesterday was my first dose, trying to achieve 5ppm NO3. I will test for nitrates again tonight and see where I am at. I will let you know how things progress. Hopefully your situation is lack of NO3, which can be a fairly easy fix.

[rovster]

I confirmed the dusting on glass is green. Chaeto seems to be growing well. Took about 3-4 days until the glass was dirty enough to clean. I do notice a slight improvement on some pieces, as they are starting to get a faint glow again under the blue LEDs. I also confirmed some new growth on a base that has been sitting there forever. Will definitely take pics this weekend. Thanks all.

[dg3147]

Sent you a bit of this....report back results please. I think i saw results on the montiporia plates within 3-4 days. Maybe aim for a NO3 of 10-25. (make sure your test kit is functional. An expired kit can read zero all the time).

<a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/david_gutkin/media/D41956CD-B2BE-4B84-A59E-5103C29419C6.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/david_gutkin/D41956CD-B2BE-4B84-A59E-5103C29419C6.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo D41956CD-B2BE-4B84-A59E-5103C29419C6.jpg"/></a>

[rovster]

Just a little update. I think the tank has turned the corner. This weekend I definitely saw a few frags that are starting to get a little LED sheen to them. My rainbow monti's base is back to bluish, and my sunset montis base has colored up. The curious thing is that the monti's polyps are still retracted, not totally, but still sucked in 90%. Actually, polyp extension of all SPS is horrible, despite the skin quality improving. Some of the smaller patches of STN are either healed or healing, and the acros that got ravaged still look ravaged. I was going to take pics but the improvement was so minor that I will wait until next week to take some pics where hopefully the difference will be significant.

Nitrate is still 0, Phos has been hovering around 0.03, and alkalinity has been stable at 139-143 on the checker, have not seen a reading out of that range in the last month or so checking several times a week.

Just to recap what I did, I basically stripped the tank down to near ULNS which allowed me to go back to my normalish feeding routine. I don't have any corals that look great, although my palmers blue is really blue now. Thanks for all the discussion. Will keep things updated!

[thereeferr]

Following along for further updates, finger crossed.

[Travis.K]

i am having an eerily similar issue as well. what you're saying is that you have gotten nutrients back down to almost ULNS and things are starting to look better? what are your current N and P readings?

[deeznutz1]

Just a little update. I think the tank has turned the corner. This weekend I definitely saw a few frags that are starting to get a little LED sheen to them. My rainbow monti's base is back to bluish, and my sunset montis base has colored up. The curious thing is that the monti's polyps are still retracted, not totally, but still sucked in 90%. Actually, polyp extension of all SPS is horrible, despite the skin quality improving. Some of the smaller patches of STN are either healed or healing, and the acros that got ravaged still look ravaged. I was going to take pics but the improvement was so minor that I will wait until next week to take some pics where hopefully the difference will be significant.

Nitrate is still 0, Phos has been hovering around 0.03, and alkalinity has been stable at 139-143 on the checker, have not seen a reading out of that range in the last month or so checking several times a week.

Just to recap what I did, I basically stripped the tank down to near ULNS which allowed me to go back to my normalish feeding routine. I don't have any corals that look great, although my palmers blue is really blue now. Thanks for all the discussion. Will keep things updated!

Hey man, I'm glad things are on the rebound. I hate the feeling of frustration.
From my experience, I always had tank crashes when I changed salts.
I'm experiencing sever browning and reduced PE ever since I reduced my lighting to combat my hair algae issue. I'm using leds as well. I'm also starting to see a bit of stn on 3 of my frags.

Just a thought.

-dan

[Jstn]

That's one of those things that's floating in the back of my mind. Can you get a 0 TDS reading if chloramine or ammonia is making it through? My filters are about 3 months old and I always check the water with a handheld meter both at the beginning and end of the water making session.

TDS may not pick them up, I test my waste water for chloramines with the lemott strips, this has been the best way ime. I found before this when the cyano started going up, the carbon blocks were toast. Check out BRStv on some of these topics they are really useful.

[Reef Dude]

Any updates? Does everything still seem to be moving in a good direction?

[rovster]

Any updates? Does everything still seem to be moving in a good direction?

Will post a pic update later. Things are definitely better!

[rovster]

As promised here are some pictures I took earlier today. Overall things look MUCH better. All the corals that had minor recession and color loss seem to be rebounding. A few of the corals that got hit hard, well, still look like they got hit hard. I did start dosing NaNO3 this week and my phos has dropped to 3ppb which is the lowest I have ever seen in in this tank. I felt like in the past I could not get it below 0.03 (not that I would want that). NO3 still registers 0. The one thing that still has me stumped is that there is absolutely NO polyp extension on acros AND encrusting montis, despite color and growth improving. I'm hoping that in time that will improve, because I've always seen awesome polyp extension in my tank and the previous one. Also corals appear more on the starved side, with a slightly pale appearance, but its not bad, and nothing compared to the previous look of it being in a nutrient soup! We'll see. I'll try and post most of the ones I posted before so you can see the difference, and I'll post a few more as well.

First up is the slimer. It was lookin like hell last I posted. The color has evened out and its getting some glow back. Still does not look anywhere near as good as I've seen it but much improved...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8071_zpsskw5yewr.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8071_zpsskw5yewr.jpg.html)


Sunset monti. Still looks like garbage, but the base color is coming back. Still no polyp extension....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8089_zps1yctgh3i.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8089_zps1yctgh3i.jpg.html)

Pokerstar and Rainbow. In the previous pic the one on the right had the blue on the rim, now its blue throughout, and the one on the left is starting to get blue. Still no polyp extension. In the past, all my encrusting montis you could barely see the base color the polyps were out so much!
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8090_zpsbve33fau.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8090_zpsbve33fau.jpg.html)


Efflo blue is coming back and burnt area is healing...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8055_zpsjfb6mpwh.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8055_zpsjfb6mpwh.jpg.html)

Microclados. You can see the colors becoming more vivid and burnt area healing, polyp color is also intensifying....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8039_zps91wd1zjy.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8039_zps91wd1zjy.jpg.html)

[rovster]

This one the skin is improving and some color coming back to polyps.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8049_zpsweb2ddlz.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8049_zpsweb2ddlz.jpg.html)

Posted this one before, didn't look horrible but skin quality is definitely improved...Red Robin
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8042_zps4ghjdzqb.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8042_zps4ghjdzqb.jpg.html)

Posted this one before. Skin quality improving and not looking quite as turdish. Yellow tips slowly trying to show....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8064_zpsguz1qblf.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8064_zpsguz1qblf.jpg.html)

Mr Pacman. Thought I was going to lose it. Was burnt! Now getting some color, not great but another one with significant improvement...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8065_zpsnnwgdgag.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8065_zpsnnwgdgag.jpg.html)

This one seemed to turn blue out of nowhere...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8040_zps66cjbjf2.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8040_zps66cjbjf2.jpg.html)


This one is getting its "sheen" back.....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8046_zpsgzgqkz8b.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8046_zpsgzgqkz8b.jpg.html)


Hard to appreciate but this PC rainbow is getting some base glow. It was also turdish.....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8069_zpsmotzjpi2.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8069_zpsmotzjpi2.jpg.html)


This monti has shown a HUGE improvement....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8095_zpslwlafmzr.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8095_zpslwlafmzr.jpg.html)

I've had this forever. Started as just an encrustation and has been that way always. Last week I noticed the first tip growth. Now there's a bunch!
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8102_zpsuitfewvj.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8102_zpsuitfewvj.jpg.html)

Getting sheen and new growth tips. This one had also been dormant for a while...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8078_zpswhvf1pqm.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8078_zpswhvf1pqm.jpg.html)

[rovster]

BBG millie, glowing more but still NO polyp extension. This one used to be shaggy....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8074_zpsmqgiwnze.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8074_zpsmqgiwnze.jpg.html)

Another mille that looks good, but no polyp extension. Another one that was super shaggy....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8080_zpsiak2y3yo.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8080_zpsiak2y3yo.jpg.html)


Colored tips showed up a few days ago...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8115_zpslyrqotgz.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8115_zpslyrqotgz.jpg.html)


This is one of the ravaged ones, but slowly color is coming back around the edges. I aint giving up on this one....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8094_zps0zamkonq.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8094_zps0zamkonq.jpg.html)


Joe's rainbow starting to get sheen...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8086_zpsbkxtmz99.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8086_zpsbkxtmz99.jpg.html)

This one looks decent....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8077_zps84govftq.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8077_zps84govftq.jpg.html)

THis one also shooting up some growth. It was looking really green, which it does under high nutrients. Base has lightened up quite a bit. Love this acro...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8029_zpszsao7gku.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8029_zpszsao7gku.jpg.html)


My bonsai has a DEEP color. Polyps still very retracted. This used to be my canary coral and usually the base browns under high nutrients...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8030_zpsxnwh0wc3.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8030_zpsxnwh0wc3.jpg.html)

Last one for now. Anacropora. Glows in the dark. All of a sudden all kinds of growth tips showed up out of nowhere.
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8067_zpsjsaqj3rk.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8067_zpsjsaqj3rk.jpg.html)


All pics taken under 12-13Kish lighting, straight out of camera. They are under LEDs so I apologize about the funky colors....

[rovster]

Sent you a bit of this....report back results please. I think i saw results on the montiporia plates within 3-4 days. Maybe aim for a NO3 of 10-25. (make sure your test kit is functional. An expired kit can read zero all the time).

<a href="http://s774.photobucket.com/user/david_gutkin/media/D41956CD-B2BE-4B84-A59E-5103C29419C6.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/david_gutkin/D41956CD-B2BE-4B84-A59E-5103C29419C6.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo D41956CD-B2BE-4B84-A59E-5103C29419C6.jpg"/></a>

By the way, a big special thanks for sending me some nitrate! Very kind gesture and much appreciated:beer:

[thereeferr]

Everything is looking way better, congrats!

[rovster]

Thanks. That Mille that was ravaged also is looking better. Body is getting some glow back and evening out but still no polyp extension. That Mille used to be so shaggy you couldn't tell what the base color was. So far so good. Every day that goes by it gets a little better. I'm due to refresh the GFO but I am going to halve the last dose since phos is running pretty low now (0.03) as of a few days ago. Will keep things updated. Maybe some more pics in a couple more weeks!

[dg3147]

So far, what do you think caused the improvement? Was it the large water change? The NO3? Tincture of time?

[rovster]

So far, what do you think caused the improvement? Was it the large water change? The NO3? Tincture of time?

Who knows. My guess is time is the biggest factor. Things continue to improve but still no polyp extension. Since things are growing again and colors are dramatically better I'm just going to stay the course. Last night I got up in the middle of the night for some hydration and checked out the tank. Some acros had some long feeders out so that's promising. My chaeto is totally overgrown and I tested my parameters this morning, NO3 still 0 and phos was 1 ppb which as far as I'm concerned is darn near 0.

I have noticed a huge drop in phosphate since starting the nitrate dosing, but I can't say for sure if it's the NO3 dosing or the Prodibio system taking hold. It happened pretty suddenly so I believe the NO3 dosing at least is playing some part.

I may discontinue GFO use for a while and see what happens.

For those interested in the NO3 dosing, I made a cocktail of 40g NaNO3 to 100ml RO. I started dosing 2ml per day and now I'm up to 2-3 times per day. I also started adding Pohls, acropower and sponge power, which I was adding back when things were going great precrash.

[sahin]

I also started adding Pohls, acropower and sponge power, which I was adding back when things were going great precrash.

Which Pohls did you dose? Xtra or Xtra Special?

And how do you rate Acropower for SPS colours? I dont care for its effect n polyp extension...my corals always have good PE.

[rovster]

Which Pohls did you dose? Xtra or Xtra Special?

And how do you rate Acropower for SPS colours? I dont care for its effect n polyp extension...my corals always have good PE.

Well I currently have NO polyp extension lol. Can't say much about the acropower. Before my crash things were looking phenomenal. I usually rotate the supplements. Acropower is the goto middle of tho road. When things start to pale I'll go heavier on the Pohls Xtra. When nutrients are higher I may switch to Coral Vitalizer. No rhyme or reason just do it by feel and how the tank looks.

The Pohls Xtra definitely works. I initially used it on my 30 when I was truly ULNS and corals were pale as heck. Never seen them that way in my current tank although when I first started it it was close.

Colors now are decent. Not rich but by no means pale. The blue tips on my tricolor are getting pretty sick. Here is a phone pic from yesterday...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/CBD5215C-9D82-458F-90A0-E732A7B23EB4_zpsg44bhkpg.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/CBD5215C-9D82-458F-90A0-E732A7B23EB4_zpsg44bhkpg.jpg.html)

Couple more phone pics from yesterday. The blue on the palmers mille frag is intense. You can see the slimer base I posted at the beginning of the thread continuing to improve....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/63EAEA28-DC08-491C-A365-6E53826FEA06_zps0dl0w44v.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/63EAEA28-DC08-491C-A365-6E53826FEA06_zps0dl0w44v.jpg.html)


Bonsai looks awesome too....hammer still somewhat retracted....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/4EE6E2E8-E3E0-4181-AE0A-BA67DCE3DDBA_zpsggrgf2nc.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/4EE6E2E8-E3E0-4181-AE0A-BA67DCE3DDBA_zpsggrgf2nc.jpg.html)

My frogskin is recovering good too. Had a load of STN and was totally bleached at one point. Those stags in the background were totally brown and had a bunch of spots of algae and everything. All that is gone now....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/2CD77C2A-67E2-436A-B85E-32F11853881E_zpsx1tb1wph.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/2CD77C2A-67E2-436A-B85E-32F11853881E_zpsx1tb1wph.jpg.html)

[Zukari]

I am having the same issues.

I have found that turning off my GFO has helped significantly, although I am still experiencing some issues. It's been a frustrating month.

[rovster]

GFO actually helped me, go figure. Checked my phos this morning, it was 3ppb. My GFO is overdue for a change but I'm just going to let it ride. If phos doesn't go up past 10ish ppb then I'm leaving it offline for the moment....

[Zukari]

Mine is at .02 according to my Hanna checker. I don't know what is sucking all of my Phosphate up - I only have about ... 6-7 frags right now that are SPS, but I do have some large LPS colonies. I think my biggest issue was this was a fresh move - and I think this new reef experienced new tank syndrome - and I found that I had a blenny that went rogue and started eating colonies. Lost about 5 very large colonies... truly heart breaking. A lot of new things to learn when moving SPS.

I have moved probably 4-5 times with the current inhabitants of this tank, never had an issue but this was my first move with SPS - they did not like it.

[cugly]

Cool looks like things are coming back around colors looks great

[rovster]

Here are a couple of pics I took yesterday with my iphone. Yes the colors are exaggerated, buy you can certainly appreciate the improvement the appearance of everything....

Here is that sunset monti. The base color is more intense and uniform. Again, no polyp extension. You can also see the lack of polyp extension on the BBG mille in the foreground...
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/0C3941BE-18F4-4EC7-99A7-6CAA542520FD_zps8xrtdxrg.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/0C3941BE-18F4-4EC7-99A7-6CAA542520FD_zps8xrtdxrg.jpg.html)


Blue base has totally returned on this rainbow and pokerstar monti combo.....I posted a pic of this initially where all the blue was gone....
http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/63DCED02-A2FE-43B0-BB71-3ED909BC20D9_zpsprbhfln3.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/63DCED02-A2FE-43B0-BB71-3ED909BC20D9_zpsprbhfln3.jpg.html)


Here is my mille that I thought was a gonner. It actually got worse after this pic (previously posted)...

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/IMG_8096_zps6y07vs75.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/IMG_8096_zps6y07vs75.jpg.html)


Here is is yesterday. Base color is coming back strong, and is "glowing" again. Also, the areas that died off are starting to encrust again....NO polyps. A mille with no polyps just looks wrong!

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff370/rovster/F3C6BBD5-516D-495A-8120-2F846A9427CC_zpsdlzkd2pl.jpg (http://s1232.photobucket.com/user/rovster/media/F3C6BBD5-516D-495A-8120-2F846A9427CC_zpsdlzkd2pl.jpg.html)

[sahin]

Assuming no pests, the millepora may take upto 6-10 weeks to recover. I picked up a 4 largish frags of millepora from my buddy a while ago and they looked like the millepora in your photo. One recovered very fast and looks great now. Others are in various stages of recovery. The smallest frag which looked very bad; no polyps and tissue VERY thin, has taken the longest time for the polyps to appear.

Just carry on doing what you are doing; ensure the water changes are done regularly etc.

[dadummy]

any consideration, this could have been a side effect from Levamisole?

[rovster]

any consideration, this could have been a side effect from Levamisole?

Highly unlikely but I guess anything is possible. I did the levimasole treatment in another tank and barely any rock was transferred. There was also a few months of greatness before the initial crash. I suppose this could have been some sort if aftershock to the crash.

[dadummy]

reason I asked was in the aefw experiment thread, Levamisole came up and there was a post about sps loss months after treatment.

[rovster]

reason I asked was in the aefw experiment thread, Levamisole came up and there was a post about sps loss months after treatment.

Interesting, I'll have to go bad and read it. Thanks!

[rovster]

Thought I would post an update. Overall tank is looking much better. Went through a couple of weeks where I pegged the nitrate and phos at 0. All the STN iS gone and all the damaged areas are nearly 100% recovered. Colors are rich, almost too rich. Polyp extension is still nil. There is new growth everywhere albeit slow. My chaeto had grown super green and super big. Yesterday I noticed the chaeto started to wither and go pale. Probably due to the low nutrients. This morning nitrates are at 5-10 and phos is 0.03 which is perfect as long as it doesn't climb much more. I suspect the dying chaeto is dumping nutrients back.

I did a 15 gal water change this morning and removed a good majority of the chaeto in hopes that it will recover and start growing again.

I also increasedy lighting intensity a bit because most of the corals were richly colored and leaning in the green direction. I did notice that in the last few days my zoas are looking incredible again which scares me because that's what happened before the last funk started. Hopefully I'll stay ahead of it this time!

Anyone have any more theories on the no polyp extension despite growth and coloring? Probably that flame angel but I've been watching him for weeks now and never seen him pick at anything. It's just funny that all polyps are mostly retracted....milles, all acros, all montis, all birdsnests.

I've also backed off on the nitrate addition. I may have overdid it and it seems there's a delay in when you actually see the rise and effects.

[markalot]

Glad to hear things are going better. I would guess something is nipping on the polyps, especially since color and growth has returned. When the corals took a tumble the Angel might have stared nipping on any algae or dead areas and just got into a bad habit. My understanding is they're not really after the corals, they're simply opportunistic and will try anything.

Just a guess though. :)

[rovster]

He is constantly picking at everything, just never seen him pick at any piece of coral. I've been tempted to try and catch him and throw him in the sump for two weeks to see if that does anything.

[Wazzel]

I had a rusty angle that picket at every thing. When I got it out of the tank things improved in a week.

[rovster]

Ok, just saw him nipping out in the open. What a ballsy punk. That has to be the reason. Now, how do I catch the sly devil?!?!?!?:mad:

[Wazzel]

Fish trap would be my first choice, if you can get your hands on one. I used a baited large mouth jar. When the angle swam in I netted the opening.

[dg3147]

How is it going now? Do you think the NO3 helped? Water changes help at all?

[rovster]

I think nitrate helped. I ran into another problem, but fortunately not a huge deal. Tank was humming along and continuing to improve. Colors were looking really good and there was obvious growth/encrusting on almost all pieces. All of my "ravaged" pieces were improving.

Phos was pegged at 0 or barely readable, and NO3 was very low despite me adding some twice a day. Then it happened.....My chaeto that was growing awesome hit a wall and started to die. Then my nutrients started to creep. I removed the withered/melted stuff, and a few days later all of it was mush. I ended up removing all of it and I had a nutrient spike. Not crazy, and did not cause a LOT of issues, but I could notice a small difference in some corals, but nothing like before.

Now I've backed off on the feeding and nutrients are slowly coming down again. I did not realize how much the chaeto was helping! Anyway, I would say things look good now with the exception of the NO polyp extension. My buddy is going to lend me his fish trap so I can get the angel out. He picks at everything, and does it in plain sight now. Little bastage! Can't wait to get him out!

Maybe in a few weeks I'll post some pics. I did up the waterchanges and Prodibio a bit until I can get my nutrients in check again. Colors are intense and deep!

[ssdawood]

I don't know if this is helpful or not. But when you lower light intensity alkalinity consumption also drops.

It is like less light is making corals grow less and use less alkalinity.

I have noticed this in tow different instances. So when you play with intensity of light you have to keep eye on alkalinity.

[rovster]

I don't know if this is helpful or not. But when you lower light intensity alkalinity consumption also drops.

It is like less light is making corals grow less and use less alkalinity.

I have noticed this in tow different instances. So when you play with intensity of light you have to keep eye on alkalinity.

Good point, and that goes for EVERYTHING! In my experience any time you change ANYTHING, you will see a "stall" in consumption. This goes for light change, nutrient change, even when I started vinegar dosing in my previous tank. Takes a few days for the corals to "adjust" and I agree you need to watch alk like a hawk, or just stop dosing altogether for a day and restart and reset as needed.

Tank is doing good guys. I have a few corals that look like they are about to take off with growth. I know it sounds cliché, but I've got nubs sprouting all over the place. I have a stag that has sprouted a ton of new nubs and I'm noticing colored tips starting to appear everywhere. Maybe I'll snap some pics this weekend.