The ever continuing substrate question

[jburatti]

I've had several tanks in the past which were not complete successes, but nor miserable failures either. I'm planning on digging out my tank which has been in the garage for the last 8 or so years and set it back up within the next few months. I have noticed that techniques and standards have changed since it was last set up and I need to ask questions and opinions of different options I have when setting my tank back up. This is the first of several posts I will start over the next few days/seeks. This particular topic is regarding the substrate.

I plan on doing a reef with a few reef safe fish and decided with a finer sand for the base. I have read a lot of people prefer no substrate altogether, due to easier maintenance, and greater benefits over time, but I think I'm sticking with this decision mainly for visual reasons. By benefit over time I mean I understand that at first a sand base will aide in bio-filtration, but over time "garbage" will accumulate and it will become more of a hazard than a benefit. Well my question regarding this is, cant I just do regular vacuuming of the sand to keep that waste out? This is exactly what I used to do with my old setup, but I have to question myself if this was the "right" thing to do??? By vacuuming regularly, I am also removing beneficial bacteria at the same time. But then on the other hand, if I'm regularly removing the "good stuff" too, then its really no different compared to a substrate free tank. That tank wouldn't have the "good stuff" either.

What are anyone's thoughts and opinions on this topic? Should I reconsider going substrate free? Should I just use enough to cover the bare bottom so it will satisfy my visual needs? should I do the standard depth with regular vacuuming? Only deep clean once a year or so? How do you maintain your sand bases and do you have greater benefits or problems with it?

While on the topic of sand bases, and assuming regular vacuuming is the way to go, would I be able to go to my local beach and grab a bucket full of beach sand to use as the substrate (assuming its cleaned thoroughly)? I only ask because if I'm removing all elements to a "pure sand" base whenever vacuuming store bought sand why not just use "pure sand" brought home from the beach straight from the beginning. Thoughts?

Also while on the topic of vacuuming, in the old days, while cleaning the sand as described above, I also used to suck out "junk" from crevices within the live rock. There was a lot of "dirt" that came out with each cleaning. Is this something I should have done/continue to do, or am I also removing the "good stuff" by doing this?

[gone fishin]

I will syphon of the very top of the sand bed. Maybe once or twice a year I will add some sand back in for the loss. I would be wary of beach sand even cleaned well, people are slobs at the beach. If you have a DSB you may want to get some advice specific for that. I have not had one so I do not feel comfortable giving any advice on a DSB. Also, just prior to a WC I will take a small power head and blow around my rock work then start my WC. just my 2 cents

[whosurcaddie]

A shallow sand bed is the easiest to maintain. 1-2" of sand is perfect. I never vacuum my sand bed, its not a requirement. I know some people do but I just stir mine up every two weeks and let my filter socks catch the debris and then change out the filter socks.

Vacuuming your sandbed will never remove bacteria, only detritus.

You will need to look up your state laws in regards to collecting sand from the beach in some places its against the law.

I use a powerhead to blow detritus out of my rocks I do this the same time I stir my sandbed again everything gets caught in the filter socks then I remove them.

[tkeracer619]

Also keep in mind most sand at your local beach will be silica based not calcium based. It isn't the same stuff unless you live in the blue water tropics.

Silica sand compacts and is sharp. I would not use it in a reef tank.

[sealtea116]

I have used caribsea pink Fiji sand and never had a problem I vacuum sand bed every water change I take a turkey basted and blow off my rocks and scrap my glass and then vacuum sand bed during water change it will help with filtration the benefits outweighs the negatives and will never get rid of the benefit bacteria just from vacuum

[One fish]

Also keep in mind most sand at your local beach will be silica based not calcium based. It isn't the same stuff unless you live in the blue water tropics.

Silica sand compacts and is sharp. I would not use it in a reef tank.

Can you explain this a little more? I was thinking about using beach sand from the gulf of Mexico for my new tank.

[tkeracer619]

Sand from the gulf is primarily quartz but it depends on where you get it as to its consistency and color. Typical reef sand is made up of calcium.

Here is a good read on gulf sand
http://practical-microscopy.blogspot.com/2011/06/where-is-best-beach-sand.html

Tons of people use it in reef tanks without problems but I prefer using a calcium based sand in a reef because it is the natural substrate in a reef. It is made of rounded off coral and shell bits.

It looks like this under a microscope
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq68/Basilesim/The%20nano%20project/141222113533765.jpg

[Sk8r]

IF running a reef, aragonite is a good sand: I recommend medium grade, a middle-sized grain which doesn't blow about.. Aragonite is a form of calcium carbonate, the same stuff reefs and corals are made off, and it provides a good sandbed without some of the problems of silicate sand or crushed coral.

[jburatti]

Thanks for all the replies. So it seems the consensus seems to be that vacuuming the sand bed regularly is a good idea to keep a clean look. I also noticed that a lot of people will take a power head to their rocks to "dust" them off and stir up their sand also prior to water changes then let the filter do its job. Well, would this short life of "dirty water" be harmful to the tank mates while in the process of being cleaned?

A shallow sand bed is the easiest to maintain. 1-2" of sand is perfect. I never vacuum my sand bed, its not a requirement. I know some people do but I just stir mine up every two weeks and let my filter socks catch the debris and then change out the filter socks.

Again, maybe I've been out of the hobby for too long, but what are filter socks? My equipment consists of a "foam pad" in my overflow box as well as another filter mat above my bio-balls. Where does this 'sock" come into place?

BTW, I'm going to stick with store bought sand and keep it shallow. Thanks for the input on that.

[jburatti]

Another question though. When preforming water changes and cleaning, should I regularly clean and/or replace my filter pads? A quote snippet from a different topic here states that "the primary bacteria growth will be in the sand and in your mechanical filtration". This topic was about a fish only tank though. It was covered above that vacuuming the sand will not remove this bacteria, so I can assume cleaning the filter will also not remove it, but can someone clarify this more for me. And what are the general rules on replacing filter media?

[whosurcaddie]

No stirring things up a bit will not harm anything. Ocean waves stir up sand on the reef all the time especially in the shallow coastal areas. You just don't want to stir up a deep sand bed.

If you don't clean your mechanical filtration often it will become a source of nitrates. The purpose of mechanical filtration is to catch the big particles and remove them before they brake down polluting the water. If you left it in there you would be defeating the purpose. Every surface that is submerged in your tank will be covered by bacteria. So don't worry about cleaning your filter pads.

[jburatti]

on a similar topic... I don't know If should just start another post altogether or not but, what about mechanical filter media now? How often should I really scrub and/or replace any filter pads? Will replacing regularly disrupt the bio filtration in the tank? I plan in doing a reef with lots of live rock, and I'm sure with this I have nothing to worry about, but I'm also asking on behalf of a friend who is planning a fish only tank. without rock he will not have as strong of a bio-filter, and I can only assume most of it will reside in his filter media.

So what's the general rule on cleaning and/or replacing mechanical filter media?

[cloak]

I've had several tanks in the past which were not complete successes, but nor miserable failures either. I'm planning on digging out my tank which has been in the garage for the last 8 or so years and set it back up within the next few months. I have noticed that techniques and standards have changed since it was last set up and I need to ask questions and opinions of different options I have when setting my tank back up. This is the first of several posts I will start over the next few days/seeks. This particular topic is regarding the substrate.

I plan on doing a reef with a few reef safe fish and decided with a finer sand for the base. I have read a lot of people prefer no substrate altogether, due to easier maintenance, and greater benefits over time, but I think I'm sticking with this decision mainly for visual reasons. By benefit over time I mean I understand that at first a sand base will aide in bio-filtration, but over time "garbage" will accumulate and it will become more of a hazard than a benefit. Well my question regarding this is, cant I just do regular vacuuming of the sand to keep that waste out? This is exactly what I used to do with my old setup, but I have to question myself if this was the "right" thing to do??? By vacuuming regularly, I am also removing beneficial bacteria at the same time. But then on the other hand, if I'm regularly removing the "good stuff" too, then its really no different compared to a substrate free tank. That tank wouldn't have the "good stuff" either.

What are anyone's thoughts and opinions on this topic? Should I reconsider going substrate free? Should I just use enough to cover the bare bottom so it will satisfy my visual needs? should I do the standard depth with regular vacuuming? Only deep clean once a year or so? How do you maintain your sand bases and do you have greater benefits or problems with it?

While on the topic of sand bases, and assuming regular vacuuming is the way to go, would I be able to go to my local beach and grab a bucket full of beach sand to use as the substrate (assuming its cleaned thoroughly)? I only ask because if I'm removing all elements to a "pure sand" base whenever vacuuming store bought sand why not just use "pure sand" brought home from the beach straight from the beginning. Thoughts?

Also while on the topic of vacuuming, in the old days, while cleaning the sand as described above, I also used to suck out "junk" from crevices within the live rock. There was a lot of "dirt" that came out with each cleaning. Is this something I should have done/continue to do, or am I also removing the "good stuff" by doing this?

I'm basically treating my shallow sand bed the same way I'm treating the gravel in my 50 gallon freshwater tank. Once a month I'll use a power head and stir the entire thing up right before a water change. The power head is also used to dislodge any detritus from the rocks as well. I just want to get as much of that muck up into the water column as I can so it can be siphoned out. The freshwater tank has been set up for about 25 years now without any problems, so I don't see why the salt water tank should be any different. These little storms have been created for the past 6 years now & so far so good.

Here's a picture of the tank just to give you an idea. I know I'm not going to get all of this crap out, but every little bit helps in the long run. While I don't use a conventional filter sock on a regular basis, these sponges are used for a few hours to polish the water instead.

With so much emphasis being put on RO/DI, Refugiums, GFO, GAC, ATS, RDSB, Carbon Dosing, Bio Pellets etc, keeping a happy healthy reef tank doesn't have to be so complicated as long as your willing to do a little work sometimes. JMO, HTH, GL.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/jAb83_2007/detritus1_zps5fda44bd.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/jAb83_2007/media/detritus1_zps5fda44bd.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/jAb83_2007/foam%20pads%201_zpsxvdahnvw.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/jAb83_2007/media/foam%20pads%201_zpsxvdahnvw.jpg.html)