Gyre issue - how did you guys manage this?

[xaflatoonx]

so i had two wp25s for my 90g reef tank.

Got 1 gyre 150 and took both of those off... love the flow.

Problem is - its ONE directional... the other way is so weak - its almost nothing.

Plus - since the gyre pushes the water ONE way it sucks it from the other - the suction is pretty strong - and that pulls anything free floating. A week ago it sucked in my xl anemone and shredded the dang thing. All that stress caused ich that i am battling now.

Anyway - back to the point.

So the gyre creates a one directional flow - i have it mounted on the top horizontally as its most common. The water gets pushed to the top - bounces of the end of the wall on the other side - goes down and comes back from the bottom.

So all the my corals are pushed towards the ONE side... (towards the gyre since thats the direction the water is moving)

how do you guys manage this?
i was thinking about getting on mp40 and putting it right below the gyre. then alternate the flow between the gyre and the mp40. That way - corals can swing back and forth - and also - if there is anything free floating like an anemone - it will get pushed away by the mp40.

what do you guys think?

[wetWolger]

The gyre can not operate equally well in both directions. Some people put A paddles on one side, and B paddles on the other side. In that configuratoin one half works well in one direction, and the other half works well in the other direction. Another option would be to get another gyre.

** edit, here is a good video about the flow patterns it can provide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OH-R9d1Qb4

[xaflatoonx]

thanks wewolger... i agree - it definitely doesnt work as good both ways - and i really dont think the splitting of paddles is a good idea..

what do you think about putting the mp40 under the gyre as its placement and function?

[wetWolger]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using additional forms of flow like an mp40! Ultimately you need to use what ever tools you want to get the flow your corals respond best to. There are MANY MANY ways to achive this. Gyre is just one possible tool in that toolkit.

** Opinion zone ahead **

I definetly like synchronized individual sources of flow better than the gyre concept. I am just not sold on it because of exactly what your describing. It seems like tons of one directional flow just creates places for things to collect behind rocks/corals (just like snow drifts behind obsticals in the wind). I like more of a back and forth, and find that with multiple points of flow I can ensure that no single spot is ever without flow at some point.

With that said, I do think that possibly using two gyre's could be very interesting. But with limited options for synchronizing them right now, that is less than ideal.

[xaflatoonx]

once again - i agree.

My problem is that my overflow is in one of the corners... which means i cant put a xf150 on that side...

If i didnt have that overflow on the corner blocking the space.... i would have put two xf150s... one on each side and that would have been gold.

I cant put xf130 on that side - it will fit - but it will need a lot of power to do the same kinda flow the 150 does... and i dont want extra noise for no reason.

so torn man... i may just dump the gyre and go old school with the mp40s - one on each side...

My anemone getting sucked into the gyre has really turned me off on these...

[xaflatoonx]

Any other gyre owners wanna chime in?

[myram]

That was my concern with the Gyre from the get go, it's a one direction linear flow pattern.......which is exactly what we don't want in our tanks.

I'm still a 1 pump on each side of the tank fan...........not broke, don't fix it.

[ptreef]

whats wrong with 2 130's....
one on each side?

[xaflatoonx]

2 130's wouldnt be power enough - wouldnt you say?

on a 4 ft tank

[JohnnyD88]

my opinion just wait for the new MP40 come out and u get buy it is a must better pump and %40 more power and 90% quicter. I have two 2 gyre 150 one on each end is flow pattern suck as hell, i have to give that is very strong flow but the problem is one direction . I rather buy 4 mp40 and have better flow for my coral and fish to swim just my opinion

[jason2459]

2 130's on a 4' tank would be more then enough.

I disagree on laminar flow not being good. I do agree that chaotic flow is good. Basically your corals will adapt to their environment and as long as it's a stable environment they will do just fine. So if you're a 2+ power head guy with a lot of chaotic random flow your corals will adapt to that. If you're a gyre/laminar flow person (maxspect or not) your corals will adapt to that. Just don't go changing it back and forth every day.

As for alternating gyre mode on the maxspect I love it. On my 180 I have mine mounted vertically with a B/B paddle wheel combination which is what flips the fins to work opposite each other. I'm at 70% in both directions and with the way my overflow and rockwork is setup it's perfect. I get reduced flow on the other side of the tank that's supplemented well with my return line from the sump. Every 6 hours the gyre changes direction with a stronger push on one side then the other.

copy pasting here on why I set mine up the way I did.

I wanted and have it mounted vertically for a few reasons and its doing exactly what I wanted so far.


1. I don't like anything mounted on the sides of my tank for full viewing and cleaning. To do that I would have to either mount vertically like I did or horizontal on the back but would need two of them then. (Though that brace mounting idea is cool and can rig up a new brace up top with acrylic on one side and still work like a side horizontal mount with out being mounted on the glass. I may try that one day)

2. I have a box over flow up top and only one small contact point of rock along the back of my tank so I could easily get back there if I had too. I wanted to be able to take advantage of that and have the lower paddle wheel stream a current of water through there to pick up debris normal power heads couldn't touch. It has done this extremely effectively. Then the top paddle wheel in the alternating gyre on its turn is picking up debris along the front of the rocks like my power heads did ok with ( I used Tunze storm mode and those did a good job with the front of the tank but not the back).

3. I wanted the 6 hour alternating currents at the same intensities (I'm at 70% in both directions) like a tide with out blasting the bottom of the tank that the horizontal mount would do

It has done each of those things perfectly. I also notice that since its alternating directions it kind of self cleans itself in that it blows off the debris that it was collecting for the 6 hours it was sucking in. I'll still pull and vinegar bath it once a month and pull it apart fully less frequently to keep the full flow and performance up.

[ptreef]

Jason....

any pics of your setup...

I have a 250g, and hate seeing stuff other than corals & fish.

I have a cls and 2 rw 15's right now. Great flow, just want to lose the PH look!!
Looking to swap out the rw-15's for either a 150 or 2 -130's.
Thought about doing the vertical mount as well along a back corner somewhere...

Thoughts? Tank is 66x36 24" tall

[hart24601]

Alternating mode is suppose to be used with the other supplied paddle and cage - says right in the manual. I think when people 1st got wind of these pumps having reverse mode they just assumed it would be without changing anything, but reverse in alternating mode is only for use with swapping paddles. Works just fine if that is what you want.

Laminar flow isn't the horrible thing it has been made out to be. Really it became a bad term when looking at prop powerheads because the laminar flow was a jet that was only a few inches wide, not total water mass movement. There is another AA article about it, but I can't find it right now. Laminar total water movement is not bad, and once it contacts anything there are plenty of turbulent areas in my system at least. I have it set on pulse, the overall movement is one direction, but with the pulses not timed to make a wave, there is a lot of polyp movement back and forth. I have set on 2 sec pulse.


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/1/aafeature

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

[jason2459]

Jason....

any pics of your setup...

I have a 250g, and hate seeing stuff other than corals & fish.

I have a cls and 2 rw 15's right now. Great flow, just want to lose the PH look!!
Looking to swap out the rw-15's for either a 150 or 2 -130's.
Thought about doing the vertical mount as well along a back corner somewhere...

Thoughts? Tank is 66x36 24" tall

I swapped out two tunze 6105's on a controller on my standard 180 72x24x24.

Over here I posted my initial setup and haven't changed it since. Tank has cleared up quite a bit since that post and believe the gyre has helped with some of that getting behind all the rock:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2418285&page=57

[jason2459]

...Laminar total water movement is not bad, and once it contacts anything there are plenty of turbulent areas in my system at least. I have it set on pulse, the overall movement is one direction, but with the pulses not timed to make a wave, there is a lot of polyp movement back and forth. I have set on 2 sec pulse.
]

Absolutely the same experience here as well. In the open spaces of my tank it seems like a solid stream of flow. However, anything at all that flow touches it turns chaotic. This could be the rock structure, my overflow, the flow coming from my return line on the opposite end, and even the fish swimming around. I can see this in my anemones and beautiful dying sludge of algae that's left as they pulse back and forth like they were on my Tunzes controlled in a pulsing mode.

[Mishri]

just watching my thermometer (that is anchored to sit at the bottom) move all over the tank with just the gyre running has me convinced that the flow works well to get water movement in all directions. It bounces off all the other surfaces moving things around. It isn't entirely random, but it is chaotic in that as flow from a few seconds ago is refracted off of different surfaces and finally dies down and the next one comes in, and how that flow interacts with the flow from 1 second ago changes how the next flow is going to be. Mostly what you see is the big turn over at the top and bottom, but there is plenty going on in the middle too.

[ghostman]

I think people expect too much from a gyre pump. One gyre cannot replace 2 pumps with alternating flow. Two gyres is a simple and effective solution. The laminar flow is fantastic, and does break up upon hitting corals and rock making it much more chaotic and random. The polyps of my millipora sway back and forth in a nice pattern. Polyp extension seems to be better. A gyre controller that can sync 2 or more together would complete the package. I doubt that 2 MP40s would match the flow of the gyres in my tank, and the new quiet MP40s will be at least 50% more expensive than the xf150. I love mine so far.

[xaflatoonx]

all makes sense - i also like the gyre flow - and can add the xf130 on the other side.

question is - what are you guys thinking about the strong suction these guys have from the bottom... that literally pulled my anemone towards it.

i understand other pumps also have killed nems in the past - but this guy has a lot of suction power to pull any free floating object towards it.

[hart24601]

My tank doesn't really need it, but if someone gave me another gyre I would just put it on the otherside and use APEX timer to shut one off and turn the other on ever couple hours or so. The gyre controller remembers the setting, so it would work pretty well. I would still keep the setting I am using, 100% 2sec pulse, but I wouldn't run them at the same time.

I would switch every few hours just to stir the detritus, but it would take a lot of playing around with to get everything right, I have some low flow LPS and I positioned them very carefully in the tank so they don't get hammered, it would be hard to adjust alternating 2 gyres. I wouldn't run them at the same time as it would defeat the entire point of a gyre flow.

[jason2459]

I think people expect too much from a gyre pump. One gyre cannot replace 2 pumps with alternating flow. Two gyres is a simple and effective solution. The laminar flow is fantastic, and does break up upon hitting corals and rock making it much more chaotic and random. The polyps of my millipora sway back and forth in a nice pattern. Polyp extension seems to be better. A gyre controller that can sync 2 or more together would complete the package. I doubt that 2 MP40s would match the flow of the gyres in my tank, and the new quiet MP40s will be at least 50% more expensive than the xf150. I love mine so far.

Yep, the biggest thing lacking right now for many is the no advanced controller or 3rd party controller compatibility. After that would be battery backup.

Disagree with the other part if the conditions are right and depending on the needs across the tank a single gyre can work just fine.

all makes sense - i also like the gyre flow - and can add the xf130 on the other side.

question is - what are you guys thinking about the strong suction these guys have from the bottom... that literally pulled my anemone towards it.

i understand other pumps also have killed nems in the past - but this guy has a lot of suction power to pull any free floating object towards it.

Any internal pump posses a risk with out hindering the flow. I do notice in alternating gyre mode with A/A or B/B there's always pushing and pulling happening in both directions and I just hope it helps if my anemones ever float. I see debris all the time rushing towards the gyre and then swept away in a different current. But there are times it lands right into the gyre and gets blasted out shredded to pieces.

[tkeracer619]

Any powerhead, closed loop, or overflow is deadly to an anemone.

Even anemones that have been stationary for a long time will let go and float. If they float into or walk onto one of the above that is not properly protected the anemone is as good as dead.

[SHUMALA]

I've got a gyre 130 on one side of the tank horizontally near the surface, and two MP10s on the other side. The gyre is on pluse mode. I find that this setup creates chaotic flow randomly and eliminates the one directional flow issue.

[datboyhieu]

I find that issue with the maxspect as well. What I ended up doing was using a weaker RW4 to pulse in the slowest mode to help create a crash into the laminar flow.

If not, some people run two and run one horizontal while theother one is vertical.

[Coelli]

I have my return nozzle pointed straight at the flow from the Gyre. I still get the gyre effect, but the turbulence from the return causes plenty of random flow too.

[swhobbie1]

I set the reverse speed % higher on the (reverse) flow. I also left a MP10 opposite of the gyre 130 to put some extra flow when it is running in reverse and for when I want to clean the gyre.

[pecan2phat]

When the 150 came out. I went ahead and replaced two MP40s and two Tunze 6055s on my 180g thinking that the one pump was all I needed and wanted visually. After about 45 days I noticed SPS on the opposite side of the Gyre had started to lose tissue. I now have the two MP40s back on the opposite end. My Gyre is mounted horizontally about 4" from the surface and at 60% on a 3s pulse. I put both MP40s back on the opposing side at 50% reef crest. I would put another Gyre on the opposing side to lose the MP40s but not until they come out with a more advanced controller and especially with some sort of battery backup.

[hobineros]

I run my new 125 long (5' length) with just my 150 Gyre. Plenty of turbulence, all my softies are swaying in the breeze.

I think the solution was, to put the pump on the end glass at a 45 degree angle... I know this bothers a reef keeps OCD but... it makes the flow real crazy. Pulse mode at 40% power and anything greater I start blowing plugs off the rocks.

One other thought... make sure you switch the rotors on one half of the gyre to effectively run switching mode.

[Tweaked]

I run my new 125 long (5' length) with just my 150 Gyre. Plenty of turbulence, all my softies are swaying in the breeze.

I think the solution was, to put the pump on the end glass at a 45 degree angle... I know this bothers a reef keeps OCD but... it makes the flow real crazy. Pulse mode at 40% power and anything greater I start blowing plugs off the rocks.

One other thought... aren't you supposed to switch the rotors on one half of the gyre to effectively run switching mode?

45 degrees! Yes I would be bat *^%8 crazy over that one!

[kendrid]

That 45 degree angle idea does hurt my brain but I am going to try it. Thanks for the idea.