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View Full Version : Water Changes. What do you do?


Mythicalelf
03/04/2015, 04:35 PM
I've been reading a lot on WC lately. And here is the main concerns I've seen but haven't found a definite answer. I'm wanting info towards Reef tanks.
1. Are they needed?
2. How often are they needed?
3. How much is needed(what %)? Let's just say in a month
4. What is being removed?
5. What is being added?
6. DO you Top off before hand?
7. Is ATO needed?

Those are the top 7 things I have interest in.
What is your experience with water changes?

ddrueckh
03/04/2015, 04:40 PM
I do 10% a week.

1. I do believe they are needed in the long run and good for the tank.
2. I don't think there is a good answer regarding how often, but I believe more frequent smaller changes are better than less often larger.
3. How much per month will depend on your tank and bioload. I think most do 10%-40%/month
4. Nitrate, Phosphate and other contaminants
5. Trace elements
6. I top off so I know how much to add back in. I also do it to make sure the salinity of the water I remove is the same as what I put back in.
7. Not needed but nice. I don't have one now.

Raul-7
03/04/2015, 04:43 PM
I aim for 50%; the more water changed the better.

DivingTheWorld
03/04/2015, 04:53 PM
I do just over 20% once a month.

Dmorty217
03/04/2015, 06:23 PM
I do close to 40% or sometimes 50% every 2-3 sometimes 4 months. A ATO is invaluable

cloak
03/04/2015, 06:28 PM
I've been reading a lot on WC lately. And here is the main concerns I've seen but haven't found a definite answer. I'm wanting info towards Reef tanks.
1. Are they needed?
2. How often are they needed?
3. How much is needed(what %)? Let's just say in a month
4. What is being removed?
5. What is being added?
6. DO you Top off before hand?
7. Is ATO needed?

Those are the top 7 things I have interest in.
What is your experience with water changes?

Check this out.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

HTH.

gone fishin
03/04/2015, 06:36 PM
I do about 20% every 2-3 weeks.

As for your questions I believe they are necessary. The amount and frequency will be dictated IMO by your bio-load, types of fish and or corals, what equipment you have. Eventually you will begin to notice signs in your tank such as a bit of algae, your testing etc.

As for what they add or remove is debatable but I tend to take them on faith that they do more good than harm. I have nothing to quantify they are either good or bad other than my tank is healthy. Good luck on whatever choice you decide.

Mythicalelf
03/04/2015, 07:07 PM
Check this out.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

HTH.

Yeah it was nice info, I read it the other day.

30g
03/04/2015, 07:29 PM
10 to 15% every two weeks. I use instant ocean, have corals of all types and rarely have to dose anything. Yes i do test for ca, mag, alk, etc. Since I only have 75 gallons I don't use an ato and use a 13 gallon kitchen waste basket and a 5 gallon bucket. It's all you need for a tank this small

South City
03/04/2015, 08:00 PM
My tank is fairly new and I do about 20% every week while I try to manage borderline high nitrates.(30 to 40 ppm)

Frequency and amount really do depend upon your individual circumstances. I know that once my tank ages a bit more and my nitrates are under control, I'll probably be cutting back to one or two water changes a month instead of every week.

Marchillo
03/04/2015, 08:32 PM
10% every week and clean out my canister filter every two weeks. I also have a skimmer live rock/live sand. Good luck!

TangingOut
03/04/2015, 08:35 PM
I do close to 40% or sometimes 50% every 2-3 sometimes 4 months. A ATO is invaluable

If I'm deciphering this correstly, you're changing 40-50% but only once every 2-4 months? I'm intereted in how the ROTM does it.

stingeragent
03/04/2015, 08:37 PM
I'm lazy and don't wanna do the math but I change about 4.5 gallons out of a 20 gallon tank a week. 25% ish? They are definitely needed. There are some very few in far between reef tanks that don't need water changes ( that one fella on here with the reef tank running for like 35 years now), but for the avg joe, I'd say yes. The water in my tank always looks crystal clear. When I get the 4.5 gallons in the bucket it has a yellow tint so its definitely doing something

SnoopyDaPimp
03/04/2015, 09:41 PM
11% once a week on my 110g mixed reef. Based on a 30 day month I have a 44% water change every month.

lllesley
03/04/2015, 10:42 PM
Hi. I do 250lts about 18% every 21 days. I have a mixed reef tank. I do think they are needed. Mostly to replenish the trace elements we don't/can't test for. I have ATO and replace about. 10lts a day due to evaporation. I dose mag cal & alk auto doser. I have never HAD to wc due to nitrates being high. I will say on our old tank I would only change every 12-15 weeks. I think corals have done much better with our new schedule.

Dan_P
03/05/2015, 06:17 AM
Check this out.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

HTH.

The reference above (thanks Cloak) is the most lucid discussion on the topic of the potential benefits of water changes. The article is almost tens years old but the conclusions are still valid today. So, why do we continue to be interested in the water change subject. Here are my thoughts.

1) New comers to the hobby are still unclear about the benefits
2) We are still looking for a good reason to cut back on or eliminate completely water changes. We do not like doing them.
3) We are skeptical. If measurable water parameters are satisfactory, isn't a water change unnecessary
4) We are suckers for anecdotal data. "I know someone whose tank is beautiful and this person never dose water changes", or "my coral are noticably better looking after a water change". What do you believe?

So, with this in mind, here are my answers.

I've been reading a lot on WC lately. And here is the main concerns I've seen but haven't found a definite answer. I'm wanting info towards Reef tanks.

1. Are they needed?
If you read Randy's article (above link), he provides many reasons why you might do water changes. What if your what parameters are within the desire range, do you still need water changes?

There are chemicals and metabolites produced by all the living organisms that are only very slowly digested or not at all. Over time these accumulate. Yellow tinted water is one indication of this condition. We simply do not know if this is a big deal or not. The same type of question arises concerning toxins from coral and trace elements. Are they accumulating to unhealthy levels? So, from this perspective, water changes, like seat belts in a car, are good insurance with little downside, except cost and time.

So, given the cost of crashing a salt water aquarium, are you willing to live without this insurance?

2. How often are they needed?
Randy's article gives you the answer to this for various situations but leaves you hanging when it comes to the question of eliminating refractory chemicals and metabolites and trace metals. This is where guess work and faith come into play. Until we obtain better data on accumulation of potential troublesome refractory chemicals, follow the crowd on frequency.

3. How much is needed(what %)? Let's just say in a month
Same response to "question 2"

4. What is being removed?
See answers above.

5. What is being added?
Whatever is in your salt mix, but a more focused question might be what is being replenished. Randy's article discusses this. When it comes to trace elements, it gets tougher to discuss because we typically do not know the levels in the system or in the salt mix or the minimum levels we can get away with. Trace element addition is another big discussion topic.

6. DO you Top off before hand?
You should try to keep you salinity at a constant level. If the salinity in the tank does not match that of the fresh sea water, then there will be a sudden ,although possibly small, salinity change. Matching salinity is a good insurance policy that has little downside except time.

7. Is ATO needed?
You can do it manually IF you are the type of person who can form good habits :-) and can do it regularly, like, brushing your teeth.

Dan

A sea K
03/05/2015, 06:25 AM
I've been reading a lot on WC lately. And here is the main concerns I've seen but haven't found a definite answer. I'm wanting info towards Reef tanks.
1. Are they needed?
2. How often are they needed?
3. How much is needed(what %)? Let's just say in a month
4. What is being removed?
5. What is being added?
6. DO you Top off before hand?
7. Is ATO needed?

Those are the top 7 things I have interest in.
What is your experience with water changes?


1) although not exclusively but almost entirely yes.
2) subject to each individual system.
3) 10% every other week.
4) excess nutrients.
5) trace elements and of course fresh low nutrient salt water.
6) yes and no, I check salinity before a w/c and adjust if needed.
7) no, but it is helpful.

Mrramsey
03/05/2015, 06:45 AM
^+1
Just my observations from starting a year ago. I have a 120g mixed reef 150 total volume. I have ample bio filtration, I do run socks, skimmer and gfo/gac. I do not dose anything. My nitrates are <1ppm. I started doing 10% on a weekly basis but that seemed to irritate corals a bit. Then two weeks but still seemed irritated. I have gone 6 weeks before things looked really 'dirty' and unhappy.

Its been a process to dial it in but I have settled on 3-4 weeks for my tank. It is a balancing act and as stated by many, everyone's tank is different. So for me I decided 3 weeks a the minimum 4 weeks max. Any sooner than 3 weeks and I am just dumping $ down the drain. Any more and its costing $ and time to correct problems.

kmbyrnes
03/05/2015, 07:17 AM
I do 20g every other week on my 100 Reef.
Until just recently this was enough to keep Ca,Mg and Alk in line, as well as decent water clarity.
Just started dosing and intend to keep same schedule.
Read all you can and form your own opinion and go from there.
You can ( and will ) modify your process over time to suit your tank.

Goldndoodle
03/05/2015, 07:27 AM
For my 28G nanoCube, I used to do 5 gallons weekly.

On my new 120G setup, I'm currently doing 25 gallons every other week.

tmz
03/05/2015, 08:44 AM
1% per day plus additional for maintenance related activity ; totals out to around 40% per month.
Helps manage major, minor and trace element levels and ratios adding them and removing them pulling it all back towards the baseline levels lessening or in some cases minimizing or eliminating the need for extra dosing ;removes some organic material including some refractory and active organics and inorganic nutrients.

Adding top top off water is a separate process ; it only repalces evaporated H2O.

FraggledRock
03/05/2015, 09:26 AM
1. Are they needed?
Yes
2. How often are they needed?
Whenever you feel some paramter is out of whack or you need to replenish supplements
3. How much is needed(what %)? Let's just say in a month
depends on your system.
4. What is being removed?
usually nitrates and dissolved organic matter
5. What is being added?
replenish trace elements
6. DO you Top off before hand?
no. keep in mind your original salinity and check your salinity after to make sure you dont add too much salt. top offs dont get salt in it.
7. Is ATO needed? no. but some kind oftopping off IS needed

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/

Dmorty217
03/05/2015, 09:34 AM
If I'm deciphering this correstly, you're changing 40-50% but only once every 2-4 months? I'm intereted in how the ROTM does it.

ROTM stands for Reefer of the Month not RTOTM which is Reef tank of the Month. For the record I know several people who have thriving SPS only tanks that only do water changes a couple times a year. Calcium reactors are invaluable

Dmorty217
03/05/2015, 09:35 AM
I'm lazy and don't wanna do the math but I change about 4.5 gallons out of a 20 gallon tank a week. 25% ish? They are definitely needed. There are some very few in far between reef tanks that don't need water changes ( that one fella on here with the reef tank running for like 35 years now), but for the avg joe, I'd say yes. The water in my tank always looks crystal clear. When I get the 4.5 gallons in the bucket it has a yellow tint so its definitely doing something

Yes PaulB will blow the water change every month theory out of the water

FraggledRock
03/05/2015, 09:42 AM
ROTM stands for Reefer of the Month not RTOTM which is Reef tank of the Month. For the record I know several people who have thriving SPS only tanks that only do water changes a couple times a year. Calcium reactors are invaluable

but what other gear do you have running too?

to newbies hearing only water change 2 times a year they think that this will work with just a HOB Filter and a sump LOL

FraggledRock
03/05/2015, 09:43 AM
I'm lazy and don't wanna do the math but I change about 4.5 gallons out of a 20 gallon tank a week. 25% ish? They are definitely needed. There are some very few in far between reef tanks that don't need water changes ( that one fella on here with the reef tank running for like 35 years now), but for the avg joe, I'd say yes. The water in my tank always looks crystal clear. When I get the 4.5 gallons in the bucket it has a yellow tint so its definitely doing something

maybe you just need to run more carbon. yellow tinting isn't a sign of disaster.

could just be algae

TangingOut
03/05/2015, 10:28 AM
ROTM stands for Reefer of the Month not RTOTM which is Reef tank of the Month. For the record I know several people who have thriving SPS only tanks that only do water changes a couple times a year. Calcium reactors are invaluable

I know what it stands for. Elliott has the RTOTM, which is local to where I'm at. You didn't answer my question as I'm genuinely interested in how you go about it. Also Fraggle brought up a good point about other equipment you may be running. I take it a calcium reactor is one.

tmz
03/05/2015, 10:28 AM
I prefer smaller more frequent changes to support constancy in the chemistry and biology of the aquarium.

Yellowing is usually from humic an fluvic refractory orgnanics .Fortunately granulated activated carbon removes them as does some skimming and water changing.

Mythicalelf
03/05/2015, 10:38 AM
Thanks guys for all the input.
If you have anything else keep it coming.

Dmorty217
03/05/2015, 10:43 AM
I know what it stands for. Elliott has the RTOTM, which is local to where I'm at. You didn't answer my question as I'm genuinely interested in how you go about it. Also Fraggle brought up a good point about other equipment you may be running. I take it a calcium reactor is one.

Ok sorry, I thought maybe you were confused... Clearly I'm the one who is confused. I run a large oversized skimmer for my system that totals 250-260g and that's about it (SRO 5000SSS) I find that when I do water changes that it doesn't really seem to effect the corals or the tank in anyway positive, on the other hand if I let the tank go for a few months without a water change my pod population explodes and my corals seem to be happier, as backwards as that sounds. I believe that water changes are extremely necessary in tanks that aren't mature of haven't been setup for a few years. It's only been the last year since or so since I have cut back on the water changes. My tank will be 3 years old in a month, but rock in the tank is closer to 8 years old from previous tanks. I have a calcium reactor but don't use it

dkennedy1282
03/05/2015, 10:46 AM
About 3 gallons every Friday on a 29 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump. Clean the skimmer every 2 days, other wise it doesn't skim right.

Steveg229
03/05/2015, 10:58 AM
20 gallons every 2 weeks on 90 gallon with 20 gallon sump. GFO/Carbon get changed every 4 weeks. Kalkwasser in my ATO to maintain Alk and Cal.

ravenzme
03/05/2015, 11:05 AM
1% every day. Use a controller to automate it, just seems easier that way and less of an impact then a larger WC on a less frequent schedule. Always watching the tank, if it needs adjustment I make as needed.

cloak
03/05/2015, 11:36 AM
I usually do a 10% water change each week on my 20 gallon tank, but it's been a month so I'm going to use a small power head and stir up my entire SSB today. I'll be removing about 20% this afternoon along with a ton of detritus. :thumbsup:

GT350pwns
03/05/2015, 02:15 PM
I do 5 gal weekly on my 36 gal bow front.