vinegar dosing and bacteria build up

[FishN00b83]

so I've been dosing vinegar for 3 weeks now and I'm up to 16ml (tomorrow will start week 4). I have noticed this past week that I'm getting bacteria buildup on my GFO, so much that it locked it up. is this a part of carbon dosing or is something else happening? it was a huge pita to get out of the reactor yesterday so I'd like to see if I can avoid it moving forward lol

[alexander_ktn]

Yes, bacteria growing on all kinds of surfaces is part of carbon dosing. You could try to use some filter floss or similar and dose in that area to try to encourage bacteria growth there - that way you can take it out to export the nutrients, too.

[FishN00b83]

ahhh ok that kind of makes sense. I have been dosing right into my sumps return area. in that chamber I have the pump for the GFO and it's probably sucking up the vinegar and jamming it all up. where is a good place to dose? would the skimmer chamber be better?

[alexander_ktn]

You'll need to experiment, but yes, dosing into the GFO reactor intake might not help with avoiding getting it clogged up... ;)

[hogfanreefer]

I have the same problem but I've found it's not that the GFO is "locked up" but that the filter pad before the GFO is clogged. I've been able to adjust the flow in to the reactor and keep my GFO fluidized on top for a lot longer. After 2-3 weeks though it usually has to be changed.

I also have had the normal film algae on the glass be replaced by the white bacterial film growth. Have to clean the glass about every 4-5 days. The wrasses have learned it's good to eat and follow the cleaner around to pick up the bacterial film as it comes off.

[tmz]

It does that early on, IME. Btw, the organic carbon dosing will reduce phosphates . I haven't used gfo in over a year despite heavy feeding and PO4 is very low.

[bertoni]

I might back off for a while on the vinegar because bacterial blooms sometimes cause problems, but I am the cautious sort. The dose likely is fine as is.

[hogfanreefer]

What kind of problems do they cause bertoni? My nitrate is down to 5 (from 25 before starting carbon dosing). I was going to wait till it got down to 2 or so before decreasing the dose. Should I go ahead and do it now?

[bertoni]

Sometimes, tanks will get slimy buildups that might cover animals, or sometimes might be toxic. I think I worry a bit too much, but a lot of people seem to agree that keeping slime buildups from occurring is a good idea.

[FishN00b83]

I'm really doing this as a temporary thing hopefully. I want to get my nitrates down to 5 and see if my fuge can keep up with the load. if not I'll go back to dosing but I'd really like to stop.

it wasn't my pads that were clogged, it was the actual GFO. it has white crap ALL over it and it was literally a brick. it took forever for me to get it out.

[alexander_ktn]

That sounds more like precipitation of calcium to me. Some people have that problem with GFO and I don't see how the vinegar would have influenced that to be honest.

[bertoni]

The problem might be precipitation. If precipitation is binding the GFO, some vinegar should release it.

[tmz]

A couple of things:

It sounds like calcium carbonate precipitation not bacterial buildup. Take a piece of the brick and put it in vinegar ;see if it fizzes and loosens up.

16ml of 5% acetic acid vinegar for 125 gallons is a relatively small dose. FWIW, I dose a mixture of vodka and vinegar equal to 368ml of vinegar for a 650 gallon system. Most settle in after amping up around .3ml to .07 ml per gallon of aquarium water.

It can take months for organic carbon dosing to reduce high baseline nitrate levels. The bacteria it feeds take up ammonia preferentially . Dosing changes the biology of the tank in terms of total heterotrophic bacteria. This can effect the number of other bacteria like autotrophic ammonia oxiudizers . I personally don't use it for short term effect on NO3 as I think it's relatively ineffective in that application; but rather for maintaining levels in the face of high inputs form heavy feeding which I've done for the last 6.6 years continuously.

This thread may be of interest:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+dosing

[hogfanreefer]

TMZ, that's about 0.57 ml/gallon right? How high did you go before you lowered your dosing to this level.

I'm currently at 0.75 ml/gallon (after about 10 weeks) and plan on holding there. Nitrate has fallen from 25 to 5. How low do you go (mixed reef but lots of SPS). How much do you lower it once at goal? I've seen a lot of varying numbers.

Thanks

[FishN00b83]

I never had a problem with GFO binding before (I've been running it for a solid year, maybe more.

I just started vinegar dosing 4 weeks ago. I'm following a chart for the next 15 or 20 weeks. I'd like to get nitrates down and see if my fuge can take it from there. I'd hate to have to dose forever that's a pita

[tmz]

TMZ, that's about 0.57 ml/gallon right? How high did you go before you lowered your dosing to this level.

I'm currently at 0.75 ml/gallon (after about 10 weeks) and plan on holding there. Nitrate has fallen from 25 to 5. How low do you go (mixed reef but lots of SPS). How much do you lower it once at goal? I've seen a lot of varying numbers.

Thanks
Yes, it would be 0.57ml per gallon if it were all vinegar or 0.07 ml per gallon if it were all 80 proof vodka. Actually, it's 36 ml of vodka and 80ml of vinegar.

I never went any higher,just built it up over a month or so at the start . Ran it at about 85 to 90% of that level along with a small amount of gfo for over 4 years. Dropped the gfo over a year ago and took the organic carbon up to the current level. I don't get any slime or snotty buildup like I did when the dosing first strated but do see a bit if I go any higher. The system is mostly sps but with a large variety of most everything else and over fifty fish; it is fed heavily . PO4 runs 0.02ppm to 0.04ppm per hanah 713 colorimeter with NO3 at 0.2ppm to 1pmm per the Salifert test kit.

[AdamNC]

Hmm I've been vinegar dosing for the past 3 months now and have seen nothing but good things. I'm up to 29.6ml per day. Never noticed any white slime on anything, a few white dots on the front glass but thats about it. Maybe my skimmer is removing all the nasties before it has a chance to build up or the Chemipure Elite?

[bertoni]

That might be correct. It'd be hard to measure how nutrients are being removed, so we mostly just guess.

[STPA]

I've been dosing vinegar since December and have been following the dosing chart I found online. Started at 2ml and have been working my way up over the last 3 months. I've noticed my nitrates drop some. I do have a question though. I've noticed that everytime I dose vinegar my water gets cloudy. I understand it is bacteria bloom but why everytime I dose?

[bertoni]

It's hard to know why each tank reacts the way it does. The bacterial bloom in the water might mean that the rock surfaces are fully populated, for example, or it might just mean that the conditions in your system favor growth in the water. We don't have the tools to determine exactly what's happening.

[tmz]

I've noticed that everytime I dose vinegar my water gets cloudy. I understand it is bacteria bloom but why everytime I dose?

How much are your dosing ? How big is the tank? Are you spreading it out or dosing it all at once? Do you dose it to a high flow area?

I never see bacterial blooms,btw.