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Garas5
03/08/2015, 07:31 PM
Hey all, I just recently started up a new 29 gallon biocube at my house. I let the tank cycle for two months before actually adding coral and fish into it, and it started out great.

My first purchase was a bicolor dottyback, and just recently I purchased two ocellaris clownfish, since they're the staple of any tank. They were small to begin with, so it was perfect for a 29 gallon tank. When I get them from a local fish store, their tails were a little beat up to begin with. I fed them regularly (once a day) as recommended. My phosphates and nitrates were pretty much nonexistent. My RODI water filter reads 0 TDS, and I keep my salinity stable at 1.024. Seemed to me that my tank parameters were golden.

After having the clownfish in for a week, I came to my fishtank and found one of them laying dead in the sand. After a proper burial (a good toilet flushing), two days later the other one was dead as well, laying in the sand.

I do not know what seems to be the problem with it. The bicolor dottyback is enjoying his time in the tank to this day, but the clownfish were not so lucky. Any ideas/suggestions/comments?

Thanks in advance.

\Clownfish/
03/08/2015, 07:51 PM
Did you quarantine them before introducing them to your main tank?

Garas5
03/08/2015, 07:54 PM
Did you quarantine them before introducing them to your main tank?

No I didn't.

Stevenliu9
03/08/2015, 08:31 PM
in my opinion, clownfish are over-rated as a "beginner" fish. I actually have found them to be quite fragile and harder to keep than many others.

\Clownfish/
03/08/2015, 08:34 PM
You should QT all your fish. A couple weeks ago I bought a firefish who seemed really healthy, still, I placed him in QT. He was eating and swimming just fine but two days later died. Imagine if he had some parasite that can transfer to your other fish and get them all sick and die. I am a beginner as well but I'm not taking any chances and starting over from scratch just cause I didn't QT and the tank is filled with some parasite.

JoelA7
03/08/2015, 08:50 PM
Well more toward your exact situation you have not described any significant symptoms like scratching, cloudy fins and blotchy skin so this was maybe not disease. Which leaves as the prime suspect your bicolor dottyback. A very aggressive little fish. Along with QT in the future, you might check your future purchases with Snorvich in his awesome reef fish new purchases thread.

Garas5
03/08/2015, 09:14 PM
Well more toward your exact situation you have not described any significant symptoms like scratching, cloudy fins and blotchy skin so this was maybe not disease. Which leaves as the prime suspect your bicolor dottyback. A very aggressive little fish. Along with QT in the future, you might check your future purchases with Snorvich in his awesome reef fish new purchases thread.

I did mention their tails were a little beat up, a rip here and there.

For how long does one QT a fish? And what would be the prime purpose of this?


Also, where can I find this thread?

\Clownfish/
03/08/2015, 09:32 PM
Here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

QT for three to six weeks and look for any signs of parasites and if they are eating normally and swimming as well.

JoelA7
03/08/2015, 10:24 PM
Read the stickies on QT and Ick. QT is your friend.

pyithar
03/08/2015, 10:48 PM
i'm guessing the culprit might be the bicolor dottyback which is the first resident of your 29G (not a large tank). they are aggressive and your dottyback will defend the territory because it thinks it owns the tank now. the clowns might also be very stressed to begin with. stressed+ more stress from the landlord= death. i'm sorry for your loss.

Jason S
03/09/2015, 08:36 AM
Did you test the water right before you put them in and right after? Ammonia, Nitrites, etc? Did they look more beat up? When you say that you "let it cycle", how did you cycle it? Did you notice them darting, scratching, or rubbing on the rocks? Were they eating? When was the bicolor added? Sorry for all the questions, lol. I am trying to help and this is what came to mind.

A QT tank is always a good idea and necessary, but it does not answer why they are dead now.

jml1149
03/09/2015, 08:48 AM
Also, what is your Ph??

jbvdhp
03/09/2015, 09:01 AM
You have to be careful with clowns as they sometimes carry the disease brooklynella. From now on, qt your fish.

gone fishin
03/09/2015, 09:09 AM
Since you said they had some torn up fins from the store, I would be inclined to think they were already weakened and the dottyback finished them off. just my 2 cents with the info given.

fishgate
03/09/2015, 10:44 AM
How did you acclimate them? Stores frequently have low salt levels. A week is about the time it would take them to die from the shock of being put in a higher salinity environment without proper acclimation.

Garas5
03/10/2015, 11:50 AM
Just a little update: the dottyback was found dead this morning, so something has to be wrong, and the option of not QT'ing the fish beforehand seems very valid to me, in my opinion...

Did you test the water right before you put them in and right after? Ammonia, Nitrites, etc? Did they look more beat up? When you say that you "let it cycle", how did you cycle it? Did you notice them darting, scratching, or rubbing on the rocks? Were they eating? When was the bicolor added? Sorry for all the questions, lol. I am trying to help and this is what came to mind.

A QT tank is always a good idea and necessary, but it does not answer why they are dead now.
There's never too many questions, lol. I did not test the water for phosphates or nitrates until after they had died. I just assumed everything was in perfect condition from the beginning (never assume, I've already learned this).

As for letting the tank cycle, I put saltwater into the tank wth live rock and had the power jet and filter running, nothing more, nothing less. This was my fishtank for about a month and a half.

The clowns were eating just fine, no strange behavior (brushing against rocks, scratching, etc). The bicolor was added February 14th, while the clowns were added February 21st. As clowns normally do, these swam around together most of the time.

I'm also going to be setting up a QT tank this weekend, because I'm not risking diseased fish in my tank anymore.

Also, what is your Ph??
My pH level is 8.1.

How did you acclimate them? Stores frequently have low salt levels. A week is about the time it would take them to die from the shock of being put in a higher salinity environment without proper acclimation.
I'm not sure what you mean about acclimating them. Is there a process of slowly allowing them to adapt to the tank? My tank was running at a constant 1.025 salinity so I put them in after making the purchase. I'm now aware of QT'ing after purchases, but this did not come to mind...



So all that being said, my bicolor dottyback is the latest victim of death, and this leaves me partially upset because I obviously spent money on them, but partially relieved knowing I stopped the problem before investing in more fish too soon.



Speaking of "too soon", is it possible I added too much too soon?

Clowny88
03/10/2015, 12:02 PM
Did you test for ammonia?

When cycling a tank, there is an actual measurable cycle to watch, not just time.

I think that's the biggest unknown here... Did your tank actually cycle? The dottyback might have been fine... But the addition of two more ammonia producing creatures in a small space could have been what did them all in... assuming your tank didn't fully cycle or you don't have enough live rock and nitrifying bacteria.

How much live rock do you have, in pounds?

I would suggest doing some more reading before adding new fish... Back to basics. You should be watching your tank cycle, qt'ing your new fish, acclimating your fish, etc.

Not the fun thing to hear, but to me it sounds like need to start from the beginning and make sure your tank cycles.

fishgate
03/10/2015, 12:08 PM
Find out what the salinity is of the store tanks where you purchased the clowns. Some of my local stores keep the salt levels at below 1.020. Just putting them from that level into 1.025 could put them into salt shock which can result in organ failure. Also when did you check your salt level? Check it now and let us know what it is. It is partially dependent on temperature.

Look at the stickies for drip acclimation.

Jason S
03/10/2015, 12:12 PM
I am with Clowny on this one... I would guess that your tank was not fully cycled before you added the fish. Like he said, it is a very measurable process where you watch the Ammonia grow and dissipate, and the nitrites will start as the ammonia goes away... When you do not see ammonia or nitrite anymore, and you start getting nitrates, the process is moving well, and you can start adding fish slowly. I am sorry for your losses, bud... I know it's tough

Garas5
03/10/2015, 12:25 PM
Did you test for ammonia?

When cycling a tank, there is an actual measurable cycle to watch, not just time.

I think that's the biggest unknown here... Did your tank actually cycle? The dottyback might have been fine... But the addition of two more ammonia producing creatures in a small space could have been what did them all in... assuming your tank didn't fully cycle or you don't have enough live rock and nitrifying bacteria.

How much live rock do you have, in pounds?

I would suggest doing some more reading before adding new fish... Back to basics. You should be watching your tank cycle, qt'ing your new fish, acclimating your fish, etc.

Not the fun thing to hear, but to me it sounds like need to start from the beginning and make sure your tank cycles.
Unfortunately, my test kit only had tests for calcium, nitrate, and phosphate, so I never got an opportunity to check ammonia.

As for live rock, I have about 20 pounds of it. I've certainly been reading a lot and I'm performing various tests, as well as trying to find more precautionary tactics before adding new fish.

Question: do these levels affect only the fish, or corals too? Because I've got a variation of zoas, frog spawns, toadstool, Kenya tree, and an anemone and they all seem growing and fine. In fact, the toadstool was almost dead, but since purchasing it cheaply it has revived very well.

Jason S
03/10/2015, 12:40 PM
I would highly recommend getting Ammonia and Nitrite test kits, and see what they show. Most stores will test it for you if you need as well.

fishgate
03/10/2015, 12:42 PM
Are you using a refractometer or a swing arm/float style hydrometer?

Garas5
03/10/2015, 01:34 PM
I would highly recommend getting Ammonia and Nitrite test kits, and see what they show. Most stores will test it for you if you need as well.

Currently in the process of getting these.

Are you using a refractometer or a swing arm/float style hydrometer?

A swing arm style hydrometer. Is there one that is a preference over the other/one that malfunctions more than the other?

Clowny88
03/10/2015, 05:11 PM
Yeah... Get a refractometer off Amazon to be super accurate ($20). My float hydrometer/thermometer has always been accurate though.

I bought a swingarm and it was off by like .06... waste of money, though to deal with, cheap and no value.

jminick2
03/10/2015, 06:08 PM
did you test for ammonia?

When cycling a tank, there is an actual measurable cycle to watch, not just time.

I think that's the biggest unknown here... Did your tank actually cycle? The dottyback might have been fine... But the addition of two more ammonia producing creatures in a small space could have been what did them all in... Assuming your tank didn't fully cycle or you don't have enough live rock and nitrifying bacteria.

How much live rock do you have, in pounds?

I would suggest doing some more reading before adding new fish... Back to basics. You should be watching your tank cycle, qt'ing your new fish, acclimating your fish, etc.

Not the fun thing to hear, but to me it sounds like need to start from the beginning and make sure your tank cycles.


+1 your tank is probably just now cycling if you never added ammonia source. did you take any pictures of the fish or tank in general if so post them.