PDA

View Full Version : New Tank - How Does This Sound?


Threshold
03/08/2015, 09:17 PM
For those of you that don't know me, I'm a newbie to reefing. The bug has bit me and I've been reading/researching a lot about the topic. I am plotting out my tank (hardware and livestock) before spending a penny -- just because I want to know what I'm getting into before taking the plunge!

Anyway, I went by my LFS today for my son's freshwater aquarium and while there I asked a few questions about a saltwater aquarium for me... :)

We looked at a 40 gallon breeder with a stand, a 10 gallon sump, the plumbing, and a return pump. The owner wasn't there so he couldn't give me a concrete quote (he saw the price of the breeder -- but not a breeder with predrilled holes for the sump; he also didn't know how much of a discount he could offer me)... So the ballpark is $350-$450 for the display tank, sump, stand, plumbing and return pump.

Does this sound good to you? (It did to me -- but what can you expect -- I'm a newbie and the only thing I have to compare it to is stuff by Innovative Marine and Red Sea -- so anything is cheap versus the name brands!)

I also asked about going out of town... If my family goes on vacation, what do I do with my tank? He said their store offers fish sitting for $5/day. Basically, I bring in a bucket of fish and they'll toss it in one of their tanks and monitor/feed them daily. $5 for the whole bucket -- not per fish. That sounded extremely reasonable -- but I also felt that this could open my fish up to potential risk with anything that might be floating through the store's water system.

He also said (and this salesman has 5 years experience with owning a saltwater aquarium) that he had left his fish alone for 2 weeks and they were fine without any feedings! He said that they were thin but fine. That sounded far fetched to me -- but I wouldn't KNOW better, so I throw that to you. Is that realistic? What would you do if you were away from the fishies for a few days to a week?

That's about it for now.

Oh, one for the road! I know that clown fish are recommended for a first fish as you get used to your aquarium because they are hardy... What other fish are easy and hardy for me to consider? The main consideration would be: It'd have to live nicely with a mandarin dragonette -- because my intention is to get one after the tank is a year old...

-Dave

worm5406
03/08/2015, 09:34 PM
Not pushing you off, but check this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

Just about all of your answers can be answered there.

About the fish sitting, it would be easiest to have a trusted friend come over. Bag up each days food in a ziplock type bag, label each one, and put it in the freezer. The longest I will let mine not be fed is about 3 days.

Also get a simple webcam that will let you view the tank from away, not only when on vacation.


On using a clownfish as the first fish, this is a bad idea and highly frowned on here. It is best to use a few peices of cut up shrimp to allow the cycle to start, instead of a live fish. You never know if the fish is sick or already having an issue when just dropping it in like I am assuming from your post.

Kentech5
03/08/2015, 09:50 PM
After cycling however, a clownfish can be a great hardy first fish. And a 40 gallon tank is a good volume for a beginner.

stingeragent
03/08/2015, 10:00 PM
You have to ask a few things first. Could you build your own stand? Would you be opposed to drilling your own tank? If so, you could come in well under the price of that, depending on if you have a saw already,etc. A 10 gallon sump doesn't give you much drain room considering it will already be close to halfway full all the time before a power outtage happens. You also got lights, sand, live rock, refractometer, thermometer, protein skimmer, buckets for water changes, test kits, etc, to consider. If you are handy with tools you'd be better off building your own stand (depending on how fancy you want to get), and drilling the tank yourself. I just drilled my 40 breeder a day ago and it was first tank I ever drilled. 16 bucks for the diamond drill bit. As for the fish sitting thing, I would give that a 100% no. The fish are gonna be stressed about the move for a week, and because you don't know whats in their tanks, you'd have to quarantine them for a month when you get them back.

Edit: Since its your first salty tank, and I started my first about a year ago, I'll give you what I bought then, up to what I've bought now for it to give you an idea. Started with 20 long, 20 lbs live rock, 20 lbs live sand, bag of salt, refactometer, heater, couple power heads, saltwater test kit, thermometer, dual t5 fixture, distilled water by the gallon jug. Used an old sewing machine stand for the tank. Since then I've added a 2nd dual t5 fixture, swapped powerheads numerous times trying to find the right flow as well as a few different thermometers, as well as continued salt purchases. Also picked up an RO/DI unit, more test kits , etc. You can forgo protein skimmers on smaller tanks as long as you keep up with the water changes consistently. If your wanting a reef tank (read coral), you can't skimp on the lights. Thats gonna run you anywhere between 100-800 depending on what you get. Depending on how many fish you want you'll also need a QT tank setup for new purchases. I personally don't have one but I only have 1 clown in my 20 and am not adding anymore anytime soon. To get everything you need to get up and running for the initial setup can put a damper in the wallet, but after that its all maintenance costs. If I was to do it all over again I'd get the RO/Di unit from the get go. It can be kinda iffy first getting in. You don't want to spend too much cause what if you decide its not for you, but if you skimp and decide it is for you your playing catchup to where you need to be. I do think your choice on a 40 breeder though is a great start. Keeping things in check with a 20 can be a PITA while balancing work, kids, etc. Bigger the better. The upfront cost is higher but your life is easier in the long run. Ultimately a sump is not a necessity (dependent on tank size). You could just buy a 40 breeder, build or buy a stand, and get all the other relevant stuff. If you can afford that setup plus everything else you'll need by all means go for it. If that setup is gonna leave you close to budget, just skip that setup, buy the tank for 70-90, build or buy the stand, and get all the other stuff thats really necessary and youll come close to the price of the other setup. You can save a lot on sand by buying pool filter sand and using a scoop of LFS sand in established tank to seed it.

Threshold
03/09/2015, 07:25 AM
Worm, when I asked about what would be a good, hardy first fish, I didn't mean to put it into the tank before the tank was cycled. I am sorry if I worded my question poorly. What I was trying to ask was: What fish (other than clown fish) can go into a cycled saltwater aquarium that is easy for a new reefer to maintain and is hardy enough to survive as I get used to owning the aquarium?

Thanks for the ideas for keeping the fish going while I'm on vacation. :) Three days sounds a lot more reasonable that the LFS person's 2 week trip!


Kentech, any suggestions other than a clown fish?


Stingeragent, how did the drilling go? I am not sure I'd want to try drilling it out myself -- in case I mess up and destroy the thing! :) I guess they sell predrilled breeders, so that might be a good compromise. If 10 gallons is too small for a sump, what size would you suggest? (As far as percentages go, I thought 10 gallons at 25% of the DT's volume was great!)

Thanks for adding your setup info -- that's really handy! I also hadn't heard the trick with the pool sand. Is it heavy enough to not produce a cloud with the powerheads are going?

FraggledRock
03/09/2015, 07:29 AM
Worm, when I asked about what would be a good, hardy first fish, I didn't mean to put it into the tank before the tank was cycled. I am sorry if I worded my question poorly. What I was trying to ask was: What fish (other than clown fish) can go into a cycled saltwater aquarium that is easy for a new reefer to maintain and is hardy enough to survive as I get used to owning the aquarium?

Thanks for the ideas for keeping the fish going while I'm on vacation. :) Three days sounds a lot more reasonable that the LFS person's 2 week trip!


Kentech, any suggestions other than a clown fish?


Stingeragent, how did the drilling go? I am not sure I'd want to try drilling it out myself -- in case I mess up and destroy the thing! :) I guess they sell predrilled breeders, so that might be a good compromise. If 10 gallons is too small for a sump, what size would you suggest? (As far as percentages go, I thought 10 gallons at 25% of the DT's volume was great!)

Thanks for adding your setup info -- that's really handy! I also hadn't heard the trick with the pool sand. Is it heavy enough to not produce a cloud with the powerheads are going?

royal gramma

green chromise

clown goby

this page:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15+1926

Threshold
03/09/2015, 07:33 AM
Thanks, Fraggle -- you rock. :)

FraggledRock
03/09/2015, 07:47 AM
Thanks, Fraggle -- you rock. :)

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/epicrapbattlesofhistory/images/a/a9/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150225192204

anytime =D

i just looked though, stay clear of the trigger fish. no idea why they are there... unless you setup a massive tank!

tcermd
03/09/2015, 12:10 PM
If you all had the means to do it all over from the get go, and cost wasn't an issue, what size tank for a new reefer would you suggest? acrylic vs. starphire? Are they over priced and just go too petsmart? Is the cost difference worth the quality differences between these products? What about places like Great lakes that will sell the whole product, including stand, is that an easier start up for a newbie than building it step wise? Cost is not so much an issue with me but I do want to do it right from the get go.

Threshold
03/09/2015, 12:15 PM
I am personally going with glass -- I have a 2 year old and a 2 week old. There's no way the tank would stay scratch-free as they grow!

GilliganReef
03/09/2015, 12:22 PM
Stingeragent, how did the drilling go? I am not sure I'd want to try drilling it out myself -- in case I mess up and destroy the thing! :) I guess they sell predrilled breeders, so that might be a good compromise. If 10 gallons is too small for a sump, what size would you suggest? (As far as percentages go, I thought 10 gallons at 25% of the DT's volume was great!)


For drilling your tank you can always ask LFS stores around you to see if any will drill for you. Personally I would rather drill myself, wait till Petco does their $1 per gallon sale. There you don’t have to worry about really losing too much on a tank. This summer I will be building and drilling a 65g.

I currently have a 40B DT and 20L sump setup. Trust me in the long run you would want the tank drilled. I wouldn’t buy a stand, just build one. If you are like me and do not have enough tools. Make sure Lowe's or HD get the cuts 100% right. I was able to build a stand for under $50 bucks.

Things you want to splash on are a good Skimmer, wavemakers, and lights. Also do hours and hours of reading. I am on my 3rd SW tank in my life. You can never do enough reading in this hobby since everything changes year to year. Good luck on your new adventure here! People here are great and knowledgeable.

Threshold
03/09/2015, 01:06 PM
I'm right with you on reading and finding useful people to learn from (like you)!

I am still hesitant to drill the tank myself -- I guess I can read up on the process before discounting it out of hand. Or -- as you said -- my LFS may do that... (Ummm -- the drilling. Not discounting stuff.)

I tried contacting Petco but they don't know when the next $1/gallon sale will be. I did sign up for their email list.

stingeragent
03/09/2015, 05:42 PM
Drilling your tank is honestly not hard. I'm handy with a drill but I've never drilled glass in my life until this one I just did. I had a spare aquarium that I did 1 practice hole on first but its honestly dead simple. Make you a wood template, clamp it to the glass, set a hose to where it constantly runs over the hole and drill bit, and just hold the drill steady and let just the weight of the drill do the work. As long as you get a diamond bit, keep water running on it, and let just the weight of the drill press down your not gonna crack it. I watched a LOT of youtube videos on it and was honestly terrified, but did it anyway. I saw numerous ones that said you have to keep it under 200 rpm, or it has to be over 700rpm, or you have to take breaks. Was just a bunch of hoopla. Just put the drill on and squeeze the trigger. Check the drill bit every so often to make sure its not getting hot and continue on. Was more of a patience thing than anything. Heres a pic of the one I just did. Just finished my leak test outside today and all is good.