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mmittlesteadt
03/09/2015, 07:31 PM
I'm still in the planning stages for my 40 gallon breeder reef tank. I'm only going to have easy to care for corals, inverts and a few fish.

So, I'm looking into LED options. I don't want to spend a fortune, yet I don't want to skimp too much either. I have no idea what to look for in LED lighting as far as output or color.

What are your suggestions for someone just getting started in reefkeeping?

Stackemdeep
03/09/2015, 08:11 PM
So many choices. Having a built in controller will make things easy for you if you are just beginning because they will run themselves once you get the settings done. A couple of suggestions. 1. Hang them high enough for them to blend well and properly do their job. If they say 8-12" is fine, go with 14. 2. A 40B is not that deep of a tank so when you begin start at a lower power setting such as 40% blue channel and 20% white. 3. They are much more powerful than they appear to your eye. 4. Put new coral down right on the sand and slowly move them up. Again a 40b is not that deep. 5. Increase your settings very slowly over time. This should take months to get to your final settings and will also allow you time to stock your tank well. Most Led light systems cover 24" in length and an assortment of depth and width so for a 40 b you will need to consider a pair of some light systems vs one light of other systems such as a Reefbreeder photon 32. Lastly do your homework and go with a proven light system where you can see some results and success from previous users. The sponsor forums are a good place to look for this information. Good Luck!

mmittlesteadt
03/09/2015, 08:36 PM
So many choices. Having a built in controller will make things easy for you if you are just beginning because they will run themselves once you get the settings done. A couple of suggestions. 1. Hang them high enough for them to blend well and properly do their job. If they say 8-12" is fine, go with 14. 2. A 40B is not that deep of a tank so when you begin start at a lower power setting such as 40% blue channel and 20% white. 3. They are much more powerful than they appear to your eye. 4. Put new coral down right on the sand and slowly move them up. Again a 40b is not that deep. 5. Increase your settings very slowly over time. This should take months to get to your final settings and will also allow you time to stock your tank well. Most Led light systems cover 24" in length and an assortment of depth and width so for a 40 b you will need to consider a pair of some light systems vs one light of other systems such as a Reefbreeder photon 32. Lastly do your homework and go with a proven light system where you can see some results and success from previous users. The sponsor forums are a good place to look for this information. Good Luck!

Thanks for the info. Do you have a few other brands to recommend I look into besides the photon 32? I'm looking for options.

Stackemdeep
03/09/2015, 09:30 PM
You mentioned "not wanting to spend a fortune" without defining the fortune. Proven Systems would include AI Hydra, Radion, Kessil, GHL, Reefbreeders and a few others. While I love the functionality and low cost of a Reefbreeder, my personal choice if I were to do a 40b would be a pair of Kessil A360w. But that choice is because it would be aesthetically beautiful to me. I try not to recommend specific equipment to reefers because when you get down to a group of good vendors, it becomes personal choice. If money was not an issue, I would love a pair of GHL Mitra but unfortunately that is not reasonable for me. Generally the Cree based systems will cost more. What I can say is that your husbandry discipline, water chemistry stability, nutrient import/export balance and patience will be far more important to your success than your choice of LED light. We keep water first, then some fish and coral.

mmittlesteadt
03/10/2015, 08:25 AM
Anyone know about these lights?

ELive (http://elivepet.com/fish/lighting/led-track-light-advanced-series/)

We carry these where I work. Keep in mind these are only going on a 40 gallon breeder tank which is only 16" high.

toothybugs
03/10/2015, 09:17 AM
I recently ordered a set of BML strips for my 40B. Depending on your rockwork, you could easily get away with a single 36" strip for full coverage. Me, I went with 2 strips at 75 degrees because of how I have my rocks set up (3D, no rock wall in back - I have islands). They are a sponsor and generally get good reviews. Check them out - www.buildmyled.com or on the sponsor forums (down a ways on the main Forums page).

toothybugs
03/10/2015, 09:20 AM
Part 2: The suggestion I would have for you is to put your money in to good equipment RIGHT AWAY. It's more expensive to replace cheap equipment with good equipment than it is to buy good equipment from the get-go. Helps you rule out problems as you're starting too - "I'm confident it's not my lights because I have (these) set to (this and this)" etc.

mmittlesteadt
03/10/2015, 09:29 AM
This is why I'm asking. I haven't cheaped out on the skimmer or an RODI unit...and my last "expensive" piece to the puzzle is my lighting.

Yet I want at this time to get the best value for my money. I am still reading A LOT about lighting as it takes a bit more to understand fully.

I can get two Aquatop SkyLED strip lights...one full white and one full blue and we have them on one of our reef tanks at my LFS (where I work, but not in the pet department). The corals in there look stunning and are growing quite fast. Keep in mind neither that reef tank at the shop nor my 40 gallon breeder are very deep. They are only 16" high.

noj3333
03/10/2015, 09:30 AM
IMO you could always go with a cheap ebay t5 fixture. If you're just looking to keep basic corals a 4 bulb should be fine. Invest in high quality bulbs, and be prepared with some emergency $$$ if the cheap fixture dies.

mmittlesteadt
03/10/2015, 09:33 AM
I recently ordered a set of BML strips for my 40B. Depending on your rockwork, you could easily get away with a single 36" strip for full coverage. Me, I went with 2 strips at 75 degrees because of how I have my rocks set up (3D, no rock wall in back - I have islands). They are a sponsor and generally get good reviews. Check them out - www.buildmyled.com or on the sponsor forums (down a ways on the main Forums page).

Which ones from BML did you specifically get for your 40B?

mmittlesteadt
03/10/2015, 09:46 AM
OK...I've found a 24" Quad T5 reflector (http://www.reefshops.com/t5-quad-24-timer-aquarium-light-fowlr-coral-reef-cichlid-96w-led.html?sl=EN).

My tank is 36" wide but I will not be building my reef out the edges of the tank. It supports 4 -24" T5 bulbs. It comes with 2 HO 10,000K and 2 HO Actinic.

Would this be sufficient?

EDIT: I've been reading about these here...and reviews go from junk to fine. I'm not spending $300 plus on lights no matter how great they are.

toothybugs
03/10/2015, 10:37 AM
Which ones from BML did you specifically get for your 40B?

Specifically, in my case I got the multichannel 20K lights. No major need to go that high-end but my bonus came through last week so I figured I'd be stupid to pass up the chance. I put 75 degree lenses on them because I want to use them later in life for something deeper.

If I were in your shoes, doing this all over again and planning a more open aquascape (rock wall against the back of the tank, maybe a few low-lying islands out in front) I would get a 14K strip from the regular (non-XB) line with 90 degree lenses. Only would need one unless you want SPS.

You should know - you will need a controller for BML lights. There is a thread somewhere about a guy jimmying a Kessil controller to suit them but BML's own SoLunar controller is specifically suited to their lights (duh). The first generation of the SoLunar was not well-reviewed. Hopes are that the second gen should be okay. Since I'm not a tinkerer, I'm giving it a shot for basically the same money as the Kessil. But if you REALLY want to set up your new system right and get rid of this controller issue, consider a small Apex unit for your tank. It's another 250 for your budget but only 125-150 over getting the two units previously mentioned as it controls your lights as well and will do a lot more for you.

Of course, you could always get the BIG Apex, but that's going to cost you everything your have in your setup so far :D

mmittlesteadt
03/10/2015, 03:25 PM
Just a thought here...

I plan on aquascaping my 40G breeder so there are more open spaces (it's just a look I like) and plan on having two "islands" if you will...one taller one on the right and a shorter one on the left with room in the middle and not going out to the ends of the tank.

Since the tank is only 36" long, would 24" wide lighting suffice? I'm thinking I would not need 36" wide light strips (whether I went LED or T5).

Thoughts?

GilliganReef
03/10/2015, 03:41 PM
Since the tank is only 36" long, would 24" wide lighting suffice? I'm thinking I would not need 36" wide light strips (whether I went LED or T5).

Thoughts?

I have 40b tank with 36" coral life t5HO lunar light. I paid 200 for it at a local LFS. Where I think you can buy them pretty cheap online. I have it setup with 2 ATI blue plus and 2 ATI coral Plus. I am going to be swamping out my 1 Coral Plus for a Purple Plus just so my red favia pops more.

South City
03/10/2015, 03:47 PM
The OceanRevive lights have gotten very good reviews and are very modestly priced. Do a search on Youtube for the OceanRevive T247 and see the many reviews there.

At the moment, Tyler Johnson has them on sale on his website. You can check out T247 at the link below. For a 40B, one unit would suffice.

http://www.addictiveaquaculture.com/en/led-lighting-reef-grow/8-arctic-t247-led-aquarium-light.html?search_query=t247&results=1 $148 and shipping for free

mmittlesteadt
03/10/2015, 03:49 PM
The OceanRevive lights have gotten very good reviews and are very modestly priced. Do a search on Youtube for the OceanRevive T247 and see the many reviews there.

At the moment, Tyler Johnson has them on sale on his website. You can check out T247 at the link below. For a 40B, one unit would suffice.

http://www.addictiveaquaculture.com/en/led-lighting-reef-grow/8-arctic-t247-led-aquarium-light.html?search_query=t247&results=1 $148 and shipping for free

Those look interesting.

South City
03/10/2015, 03:57 PM
Those look interesting.

I just ordered 4 of them last night for my 180 gallon build. I have heard nothing but positive things about these lights from those who already own them. They are being offered for $50 less on that site verses Amazon or the manufacture's website. Not sure how long that sale will last.

Quick searches on Youtube and Google should give you similar positive impressions about the OceanRevive lights.

koko maung
03/10/2015, 10:43 PM
Is it just me or its just the light setting that making the T247 reef tank pics color washed out?

exray
03/10/2015, 11:14 PM
I'm still in the planning stages for my 40 gallon breeder reef tank. I'm only going to have easy to care for corals, inverts and a few fish.

So, I'm looking into LED options. I don't want to spend a fortune, yet I don't want to skimp too much either. I have no idea what to look for in LED lighting as far as output or color.

What are your suggestions for someone just getting started in reefkeeping?


Check out Aquaticlife they the new Halo Led something like the Kessil. what's good about them is the master has the controller built-in and you get the slave also. that way you'll have two light with one controller and they use the Cree leds.

Good Luck

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 08:45 AM
OK, I got some lights. They aren't on anyone's list of LED lights to buy. I certainly appreciate everyone's input on this.

I bought three 24" Aquatop SkyLED lights. Here's my reasoning for going in this direction. First of all, I work for Ace Hardware and we have a huge pet department, specifically fresh and saltwater/reef tanks. As an employee I get everything at cost. Everything I've purchased thus far (RODI unit, 40G Breeder tank, stand, Eshopps PSK-100 HOB skimmer, powerheads, heaters, these LED light strips, etc.) is over $1000 retail, but I've only put in a tad over $500 so far and I'm ready to rock'n'roll with this setup. I run the frame shop at Ace (not working the pet department, although I help out occasionally) and because I'm also an artist I've been doing murals in the store in trade for store credit (in addition to being paid my regular wage) so really this entire setup is costing me nothing.

Here's my reason for the LED lights purchase. I basically get whatever we stock for free. I've been keenly observing our reef tanks at the store. Our resident reef experts in pets have been running these lights over the reef tanks here for quite a while. It's not what they would recommend as much as what they can store use for the tanks here. They are all shorter tanks like my 40G breeder and the corals they have are not only thriving, they are growing like weeds and looks absolutely gorgeous. They are running 36" lights over their tanks...one daylight (10,000k and 7,000k blend) and two actinic blue fixtures. My reason for choosing them was my cost (nothing) plus firsthand experience with these lights working on the reef tanks here (that are not very tall like mine).

I went with the 24" because the way I'm going to aquascape my tank it is not necessary to cover the tank with light all the way from one side to the other. I'm more concerned with coverage with my depth.

At some point if we ever get better reef lights in stock (which I'm sure we will at some point...we're always upgrading products we sell) I can always sell these to someone else and purchase better lights at cost.

For now these should work very well. I can't dim them, though based on the tanks here it isn't necessary (as I'm sure they're not high enough output to worry), but I am going to plug each fixture into timers to automate the startup and duration.

OK...so go ahead and tell me they won't work. I've got nothing really invested anyway. ;) I'll keep looking into lighting and upgrade as necessary. Thanks again for all of your input. Lots of great choices.

Kyle461
03/11/2015, 09:02 AM
Just a thought here...

I plan on aquascaping my 40G breeder so there are more open spaces (it's just a look I like) and plan on having two "islands" if you will...one taller one on the right and a shorter one on the left with room in the middle and not going out to the ends of the tank.

Since the tank is only 36" long, would 24" wide lighting suffice? I'm thinking I would not need 36" wide light strips (whether I went LED or T5).

Thoughts?

Weird. Mine is exactly as you describe it with 24" Marineland LED's. Here's a pic so you can compare.

Please excuse my diatom bloom. I'm still leveling out with parameters and such.

Stackemdeep
03/11/2015, 09:25 AM
As long as you are mainly doing a fowlr or some hard to kill softies then you will be fine. Since cost is a major issue for you, then stock what will live with that light and enjoy the tank. Having a tank in your store should enable you to see what works and what doesn't work under that lighting. This also gives you plenty of time to learn about the light requirements for different coral. Good Luck & enjoy.

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 09:40 AM
As long as you are mainly doing a fowlr or some hard to kill softies then you will be fine. Since cost is a major issue for you, then stock what will live with that light and enjoy the tank. Having a tank in your store should enable you to see what works and what doesn't work under that lighting. This also gives you plenty of time to learn about the light requirements for different coral. Good Luck & enjoy.

I'm not delusional in thinking this lighting is great, but I know it will be sufficient given the soft corals we stock are not only doing alright, but thriving and growing. They really look fantastic.

This is cost free at this point, so somewhere down the line when I actually have to put up some real money I can put it into lighting because I didn't skimp anywhere else.

And I'm not going to get into keeping anything difficult or too demanding anyway. I'm new to reefkeeping (although an expert on freshwater...yeah I know...they're different) but as I learn this part of the hobby I can always upgrade the lighting if I want to get deeper into it. I'm taking it slow and learning what I can and just enjoying the process.

christopherjudd
03/11/2015, 09:50 AM
I use reefbreeders photon 24 on my 40b. Took off the lens for better coverage

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 09:54 AM
Weird. Mine is exactly as you describe it with 24" Marineland LED's. Here's a pic so you can compare.

Please excuse my diatom bloom. I'm still leveling out with parameters and such.

Cool. My rock base won't be as big or as solid as yours. I plan on creating thinner shelves on my two islands that sort of spiral upwards and jut out...kind of like a spiral staircase. This will create ledges, each getting light, but also creating shaded areas underneath, but without blocking the light to other shelves.

We tried a single 24" half daylight/half blue strip light at the store here...didn't do it for the corals. We removed that and put on one daylight and one blue. It got better. We added one more 24" blue (so there are two 24" blue and one 24" daylight) and with all three the corals are doing great and look gorgeous.

So I went and got all three for my 40G breeder.

I like your "two island" 'scape, but you should maybe open up the right one a bit more and create a few ledges, rather than just a pile of rocks. It will give some shaded spots for other creatures to hide under too. Just a suggestion for aquascaping it, not being critical of it. I'm an artist so the look of aquascaping is really important to me. Not just for aesthetics, but how the corals live together with the lighting.

Kyle461
03/11/2015, 10:02 AM
I like your "two island" 'scape, but you should maybe open up the right one a bit more and create a few ledges, rather than just a pile of rocks. It will give some shaded spots for other creatures to hide under too. Just a suggestion for aquascaping it, not being critical of it. I'm an artist so the look of aquascaping is really important to me. Not just for aesthetics, but how the corals live together with the lighting.

I doesn't look like it in the pic but it's a "teepee" shape. The middle is open kind of like a big arch. Both sides actually have the arch feel but you can't see it looking straight at it. Thanks for the critique though! I'm always up for suggestions.

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 10:14 AM
I doesn't look like it in the pic but it's a "teepee" shape. The middle is open kind of like a big arch. Both sides actually have the arch feel but you can't see it looking straight at it. Thanks for the critique though! I'm always up for suggestions.

Yeah, I see that now. Do an advanced search on this site for "aquascaping". There are some fabulously designed aquascapes that have been very inspiring. Some people have been so inspired that they've torn down their established reef structures and redid them!

I'm getting into reefs because unlike freshwater there is more life to observe beyond fish. I want lots of places for creatures to hide and crawl in and out of. I've never been scuba diving but I've seen some great shallow water reefs in the Gulf while snorkeling and it's amazing to see fish and other creatures pop in and out of crevices and hiding places where there are so many places of strong light and shadows.

Kyle461
03/11/2015, 12:49 PM
Will do! Thanks. My rocks are big chunks so I may have to break them down to achieve different scapes or textures.

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 12:53 PM
Here's an example of one rock structure I found here that while simple, has lots of visual appeal and is one I'm considering, although I want to have plates that jut out from it in a spiral pattern. Imagine this but with natural rock shelves sticking out around it of varying sizes.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/pigpen_/IMG_1319.jpg

Pigpen17
03/11/2015, 01:23 PM
I started out with the Marineland Reef Capable LED with build in timer, than upgraded to the Reefbreeders Photon 24. I liked it, and it served me well. It's a good starter light. There is no control for intensity, and it was kind of hot out of the box, but the light calmed down over a month or so. The only reason I wanted to upgrade was for the dawn and dusk of the more expensive lights, or I would probably still use it.

Hey! That's my rocks!!!!

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 01:32 PM
I started out with the Marineland Reef Capable LED with build in timer, than upgraded to the Reefbreeders Photon 24. I liked it, and it served me well. It's a good starter light. There is no control for intensity, and it was kind of hot out of the box, but the light calmed down over a month or so. The only reason I wanted to upgrade was for the dawn and dusk of the more expensive lights, or I would probably still use it.

Hey! That's my rocks!!!!

You did a great job with that structure. I really like it...a lot. It's simple and open, yet so many possibilities for coral placement and life to use.

The Reefbreeders Photon 24 sure looks like a great one. There are many I'm considering for a future upgrade. Getting the Aquatop SkyLED lights for essentially free was too good to pass up for now.

Pigpen17
03/11/2015, 03:29 PM
You did a great job with that structure. I really like it...a lot. It's simple and open, yet so many possibilities for coral placement and life to use.

The Reefbreeders Photon 24 sure looks like a great one. There are many I'm considering for a future upgrade. Getting the Aquatop SkyLED lights for essentially free was too good to pass up for now.

Heck yeah. My only negative review of the Photon is the ramp up and ramp down for dawn to dusk is in steps, rather than dimming. You can't see it except at the lowest levels, which of course is where you need it most.

Thank you on the aquascape. I decided to try something new. I got lucky as heck. It came out like that the first try. Usually it's a 6 hour process for me with lots of cursing and then finally giving up.

mmittlesteadt
03/11/2015, 03:55 PM
Heck yeah. My only negative review of the Photon is the ramp up and ramp down for dawn to dusk is in steps, rather than dimming. You can't see it except at the lowest levels, which of course is where you need it most.

Thank you on the aquascape. I decided to try something new. I got lucky as heck. It came out like that the first try. Usually it's a 6 hour process for me with lots of cursing and then finally giving up.

I've designed so many FW planted tanks (as in SERIOUSLY, fully planted with driftwood, etc) and one reef a few years back. It's hard to get the pieces to work with what you have in your mind. I think rock selection is probably the most important part of the creation process.

In my case, I need to find as large and flat pieces that I can for my shelves, or have to make sure I break them the right way. Fortunately I have a friend who is a paleontologist and he can crack and break rocks to make them come apart any way he wants to. ;)

coralsnaked
03/11/2015, 03:59 PM
Just order a Chinese fixture off Ebay for a 100 dollars. I'll say complete spectrum 165 watts and run ~ 110 watts and will be dimmable 2 channel. That's all you need on a 40 breeder with a timer.

mmittlesteadt
05/22/2015, 08:17 PM
Just an update of an old thread I started (and found again via a search)...

Decided to ditch the strip lights and bought a Kessil A160WE. I will get it on Monday. I've seen the A160WE in person over a friends tank, and we now have three Kessil A360WE's over the 220 display reef tank in the pet department where I work.

Based on everything I've read (and I've exhausted the search engine) on the Kessil's, e-mails back and forth with Kessil, and what I want in my lighting, a single A160WE about 11" over my tank will give me the lighting I'm after.

First of all, I DO NOT want my entire tank lit up like a football stadium. I prefer the pleasing aesthetics of light and shadow. I prefer to taper some light off away from the edges of my aquariums (which removes the "boxy" look) so losing 6" of light on each end of my tank is ideal (I don't have much rock there anyway).

Also, almost every single recommendation in threads I've read pushes overkill and says to add more lights, or the A360WE instead of the A160WE, and then they go on and state that they only run their lights at like 60% of the output they are capable of. Very odd.

Anyway, looking forward to the Kessill A160WE.