electricity savings converting from T% to LED

[kniquy]

I am at the point now where i need to purchase new bulbs for my 6 bulb T5 unit. That will run me about $130. I am considering upgrading to LED's -- this is for my 75gal reef (I want to be able to keep all types of coral, currently only have zoas). I'm not even sure exactly what i would need for LED at this point so I am uncertain of the investment. Looking to retro into my hood.

For those of you who have switched from T5 to LED -- have you noticed a significant change in your electrical bill?

I am trying to justify the expense of upgrading especially because electricity in my area skyrocketed during this past January.

[Wazzel]

The saving will be minimal, probably $10 a month, give or take.

[dkeller_nc]

I am trying to justify the expense of upgrading especially because electricity in my area skyrocketed during this past January.

I suspect you'll have to wait quite a long time for the energy savings to eclipse the initial investment in LEDs. For example, your current fixture uses 324 watts (approximately). Presuming that you leave it one 10 hours per day, your monthly electrical bill for that usage will be $16 (at your current $16/kw-h).

For your tank, you need at minimum 2 Radion Pro Gen 3's (just using those fixtures as an example - other LED fixtures will be similar). Approximately speaking, you'll be running these at about 1/2 power for the same 10 hour photoperiod, so about 85w x 2 = 170watts total. Your monthly electrical bill for these will be $8.43.

Your savings will be $7.60 per month, and at current Gen3 Radion Pros will run you $750 each, presuming you don't need the ceiling or tank mounts. Figuring that you can get $300 for your current fixture, the difference in capital expense is $1200. It will therefore take 13 years for your investment to pay off, excluding bulb change costs.

[LesMartin]

And that's if you can resist the temptation to upgrade your LEDs as newer versions are released....

[wagohn]

... It will therefore take 13 years for your investment to pay off, excluding bulb change costs.

But this is the big factor. LEDs dont need changing every 6 months as MH or T5 do so that saving is 6 (bulbs) x 2 (twice per year) x $30 (cheap bulb) = $360

And with the electricity savings, approx 3 yrs to get your $ back.

:)

[kniquy]

Thanks for the input. I do see a bit of savings and probably looking over a 6 year period of electrical savings and the cost of replacing bulbs (which i have been doing yearly)

Over 6 years bulbs min changed yearly x 6 years- $780 savings
Electricity $10 per month($120 per year) = $720 savings.

I am in the research stages of my LED hunting so any suggestions on reasonably priced brand would be appreciated. I would like something that can mount into my hood.

[wagohn]

Plus, the lights burn a lot cooler. In fact my LEDs are close to room temp. :)

[d2mini]

Don't forget that your power hungry heaters may run more.

[wagohn]

Don't forget that your power hungry heaters may run more.

And your power hungry chillers if your run MH or T5 ;)

[d2mini]

And your power hungry chillers if your run MH or T5 ;)

He didn't say he was running a chiller.
If no canopy, there shouldn't be a need.

[mordibv]

+1 . He lives in western mass . Very short summers and a chiller's aren't really needed .

[wagohn]

-1
The point was that LEDs lower tank temp and in 'general', lessen the need to run a chiller. Not specific to the OP.

I lived in CA and in the summer time ran a chiller as the MH lights would peg the water temp to 82 degrees and over. With no lights, Id run 78 degrees.

[ghostman]

Misinformation by LED users is rampant on the boards. Changing bulbs every 6 months, every T5 and MH lit tank needs a chiller, 1 LED unit can cover a whole tank. It's simply not true. It still amazes me that this argument exists.

[d2mini]

-1
The point was that LEDs lower tank temp and in 'general', lessen the need to run a chiller. Not specific to the OP.

I lived in CA and in the summer time ran a chiller as the MH lights would peg the water temp to 82 degrees and over. With no lights, Id run 78 degrees.

What? Are we keeping track of points now? :rolleyes:

I live in Houston and with an open top tank i ran mh and t5 and still needed my heaters. Every situation is different. My point was just to let the OP know that his heaters will run more without the heat from the lights. If you want to justify your expensive lighting purchase with some supposed cost savings over the course of several years there are other threads for that. Try the "anyone switching back to mh" thread.

[m1k3]

Misinformation by LED users is rampant on the boards. Changing bulbs every 6 months, every T5 and MH lit tank needs a chiller, 1 LED unit can cover a whole tank. It's simply not true. It still amazes me that this argument exists.
1 LED unit can run a whole tank assuming the unit is large enough. Kessils, no but reef breeders for example come up to 60" wide now.

[Reel North]

D2 don't even get me started on LED. Remember you will blow fans in the LED, the small heat sinks WILL allow the LED to degrade, you will upgrade them and they won't last nearly as long as you hope. I ditched them.

[Mike de Leon]

There definitely is some payback in using LED. If you want to keep SPS getting the light tuned in is a real challenge. You will lose corals initially.
LPS and soft will be easier.

[Wazzel]

Misinformation by LED users is rampant on the boards. Changing bulbs every 6 months, every T5 and MH lit tank needs a chiller, 1 LED unit can cover a whole tank. It's simply not true. It still amazes me that this argument exists.

Lots of misinformation coming from both camps. Everyone should stop taking the out of the ordinary bad cases and portraying them as the normal.

Unless you have a junk fixture or a broken fixture the most cost effective solution is to stick with what you got and figure out how to properly operate it.

[Wazzel]

There definitely is some payback in using LED. If you want to keep SPS getting the light tuned in is a real challenge. You will lose corals initially.
LPS and soft will be easier.

I lost one coral in this tank, but not to LED lighting. I had a nippy angle. Have a little patients and it will go just fine.

[ghostman]

1 LED unit can run a whole tank assuming the unit is large enough. Kessils, no but reef breeders for example come up to 60" wide now.

Yes, you are correct M1k3. I run a kessil360we on a small frag tank and love it. My short reference was that very often people try to get away with less units than would realistically work and end up with hot and cold spots. I'm actually a fan of the reef breeders units as well as the Pacific Sun and GHL Mitras. Quality lamps, but may not always save as much money as you think.

[mordibv]

For me , there were no cost savings using led over t5 or halides . My costs on bulbs were not the same . I had to replace 8 x39 watt t's in a PM because I wasn't stuck on ATI only bulbs . EG: Hexarc /Geisemann, KZ . I didn't buy them when I needed them . I bought bulbs whenever they were on sale . Everyone's cost is different . The math will vary .The most important item when I ran halides was the lady of the house never complaining about the light bill . Happy wife ,Happy life .

[gone fishin]

I never really looked at the electric bill to see if I started saving any after I put the LED's on the tank.

FWIW I bought them because I wanted them plain and simple. I got a mixed tank and the coral grows, I am happy. I never really understood all the hostility with who has what light, spend your money the way you see fit.

[blasterman789]

I've noticed that when LED critics do the math they always choose the most expensive and least bang per buck LED fixtures so they can have more straw to prop up the horse. We all know that if you shop around and don't need your LED fixture to simulate lighting storms on all planets in the solar system and don't need a cloud based a interface that you can get *more* PAR per dollar than budget halides and T5 lights.

Let me repeat - per PPFD or equivelant PAR you can purchase LED fixtures that are cheaper than halides or T5's. And yes, they have equal or greater the spectrum.

I've been through a lot of building wide LED retrofit projects, and I've never had an engineer or bean counting facilities director say 'hey, lets tear out those state of the art LED fixtures and go back to T5's because I preferred the look of tubes'.

I also don't see those same facilities directors using expensive brands of reef bulbs to light their buildings. You'd think if there were same magical property with top end T5 tubes yielding miraculous results in reef tanks that would apply to mainstream lighting as well. There isn't - they are a few industry standard phosphor sets out there and everything obeys the laws of lighting physics.

Same physics apply with reef tanks as mainstream LED fixtures. The heat issue alone has an interesting side story with LED based traffic lights having trouble in snowy areas because there's not enough heat emitted from LED units to melt ice unlike incan or HTI. One city's problem in a snow climate is a boon for reef tanks trying to keep heat down.

So, what it boils down to is a question of scale. A pair of 120watt LED fixtures displacing a pair of 250watt halides is going to consume about 1/3 the power. Less power, especially if a decent power factor in play is going to save on your power bill. For me the savings in power woulnd't be worth it and would need other factors.

Once you start getting into the 1,000watt range though and spending your paycheck on multi-horsepower chillers then we have a different arguement and LED units start to look more attractive at a far lower threshold.

[d2mini]

So, what it boils down to is a question of scale. A pair of 120watt LED fixtures displacing a pair of 250watt halides is going to consume about 1/3 the power.

Except a 120watt led may not be able to replace a 250w halide.
My tank that would need 6 double-puck led fixtures can use 3 mh fixtures.

I think I completely missed the point of your building argument. What does lighting a hallway or parking lot have to do with reef tank lighting?

[grigsy]

Misinformation by LED users is rampant on the boards. Changing bulbs every 6 months, every T5 and MH lit tank needs a chiller, 1 LED unit can cover a whole tank. It's simply not true. It still amazes me that this argument exists.

+1

Completely agree with this.

After using LEDs then switching back to MH +T5, I found there was very little electrical savings involved.

My heater was always on with my LEDs. I don't use a chiller. Many others have had the same experience.

Also - changing bulbs every six months?? I don't know anyone who does that.

[sirreal63]

Let me repeat - per PPFD or equivelant PAR you can purchase LED fixtures that are cheaper than halides or T5's. And yes, they have equal or greater the spectrum.


I would like to see which led fixture has a "greater" spectrum than MH.

[Bpb]

I would like to see which led fixture has a "greater" spectrum than MH.

I lol'd at that comment as well

[power boat jim]

To answer the original question, yes you can and probably will save money on power bills converting from t5 to LED. All the rest of these old arguments are really a product of differing opinions based on experience from the 10,000 or so different ways we set up tanks and use our equipment and in some cases whether you are a fan of LEDs or not.

[Bpb]

To put the argument more in the led favor, you can definitely save money fast (instantly) if you go with eBay d120 units for $90-100 a piece and just use two. Startup cost will be nearly negated by the sale of your t5 unit, and you'd start saving instantly. However. You may be disappointed by the poorer coverage, and unless you're savvy with a soldering iron and electrical work...well let's just assume you'll need new drivers and diodes (violets usually go first) within 2 years. I'm sure people in here will chime in and say "nosir my d120s have been going strong for 5 years!"...but of all the people I know personally that use the Chinese ever grows (including the reef breeders, ocean revive, ect), all have had dead drivers inside of 2 years. Watching 4-5 people in my area all have to send their lights in for warranty fixes, or open them up and do it themselves is enough for me to say "if i bought ever grows, they'd be cheap at first but need frequent repairs".

[kniquy]

I am the original poster of this thread. Wow!!! I didn't know that it would turn into such a debate, but that is what we are here for -to try and see both sides and make the best informed decision for ourselves. It certainly seems as thought there are many schools of thought and I will likely stick with my T5's and invest my money on other equipment. I do appreciate all of the input everyone shared. I learn so much from all of you. So thanks!!

[kniquy]

To put the argument more in the led favor, you can definitely save money fast (instantly) if you go with eBay d120 units for $90-100 a piece and just use two. Startup cost will be nearly negated by the sale of your t5 unit, and you'd start saving instantly. However. You may be disappointed by the poorer coverage, and unless you're savvy with a soldering iron and electrical work...well let's just assume you'll need new drivers and diodes (violets usually go first) within 2 years. I'm sure people in here will chime in and say "nosir my d120s have been going strong for 5 years!"...but of all the people I know personally that use the Chinese ever grows (including the reef breeders, ocean revive, ect), all have had dead drivers inside of 2 years. Watching 4-5 people in my area all have to send their lights in for warranty fixes, or open them up and do it themselves is enough for me to say "if i bought ever grows, they'd be cheap at first but need frequent repairs".

I wish I had the knowledge to build LEDs but as a woman I have very little knowledge or skills with electricity or soldering.

[sirreal63]

Good choice, if it is working there may be little reason to change. I was in the same position a few years back, I am so glad I did not change to LEDs and instead did some fine tuning on the halides and will run them as long as I can.

[Joel_155]

Big debate here. Rather interesting too. Being relatively new (3 years in, second tank) I spent the money on AI Sol super blues when I set up my first tank (100g 60:18:24). I now have the same two lights on my 60 cube. I run an open top tank and still really like my Leds however the hybrid led/t5 fixtures really interest me. On my cube there aren't any real options and I'm not info diy'ing something like this. It's nice to know that MH and T5 are still viable options. Has anyone seen the geisemann MH fixtures? Those look amazing. Pricey but so is everything else in this hobby.