Ace hardware ammonia. Did I get the right kind? Tank not cycling.

[One fish]

I just emptied my tank because it will not cycle. I am guessing I added too much ammonia because I have been testing every day and it has not gone down at all. No nitrites, no nitrates, just high ammonia for the past 3 weeks. So I am starting from scratch. New sand, water, and just bought 30lbs of tonga dry rock. Is this the right ammonia? Do I need to toss this and just use raw shrimp?

Thanks so much.


311044

[JoelA7]

I can't read the photo but guess you have the 10% ammonium hydroxide which is just fine. I forget the ratio of product per gallon but you can find it in a thread here I'm sure. Add to get between 2 and 4 ppm then wait until it's gone. Etc. Good luck!

[nmotz]

I just emptied my tank because it will not cycle. I am guessing I added too much ammonia because I have been testing every day and it has not gone down at all. No nitrites, no nitrates, just high ammonia for the past 3 weeks. So I am starting from scratch. New sand, water, and just bought 30lbs of tonga dry rock. Is this the right ammonia? Do I need to toss this and just use raw shrimp?

Thanks so much.


311044

That looks right, would need more info on your tank to try to figure out what might have happened. The cycle length varies a lot and I wouldn't say that 3 weeks is a time to hit the panic button. Of course it is true that if you add more ammonia, it will take longer to break down. I would start very conservative with the dosing, especially because you have a small tank. Then just be patient. It's hard to do, but waiting for the biological process to do its thing is very important. You'll get where you want to be eventually.

[Azedenkae]

How high is it exactly?

[toothybugs]

You have a bacteria source, right? Ex. live rock from your LFS?

[Savant]

how much ammonia did you dose?

[Goldndoodle]

That's what I used, here's how I did it ...

Bought ammonia at ACE.
Went to Walgreens and bought a bottle of their generic nasal spray.
Went home - took the top off of the nasal spray bottle, emptied it, removed the straw that is in the tip, rinsed it thoroughly with RODI.
Added ACE ammonia to that bottle.

I added 50 drops at a time of ammonia from that Walgreen's nasal spray bottle, waited 1 hour, then retested for ammonia until I reached a level of 2ppm.

I just checked my log for cycle - my initial dose of ammonia was 300 drops from that Walgreen's nasal spray bottle to go from 0ppm to 2ppm. (That's right, I tested ammonia 7 times - and it took me over 6 hours - until I had the correct dose.)

When testing to see if the bacteria was at sufficient levels, I used 220 drops to get from 0.4ppm back up to 2ppm.

It does not take a lot of that ammonia to raise the level.

[soulpatch]

Just let your tank go. You can do a slight water change if your ammonia is off the chart or just let it go and let the bacteria from your live rock work its magic. Nothing in your tank save perhaps some hitchhikers are going to be bothered by the ammonia.

[friedwilly]

I just emptied my tank because it will not cycle. I am guessing I added too much ammonia because I have been testing every day and it has not gone down at all. No nitrites, no nitrates, just high ammonia for the past 3 weeks. So I am starting from scratch. New sand, water, and just bought 30lbs of tonga dry rock. Is this the right ammonia? Do I need to toss this and just use raw shrimp?

Thanks so much.


311044

I just purchased the same ammonia at Ace and was wondering the same thing, is the right ammonia?

This thread definitely answered my question. My secondary question is how much ammonia to add per gallon of tank volume?

I will be starting my tank next weekend.

[jimmy_beaner]

If you're not using live rock (I see you mention dry/base rock but nothing about live rock), cycling can take a loooong time. You should use a source for bacteria. I've used Dr. Tim's One and Only in the past and it worked really well.

[thegrun]

To raise 100 gallons of water from 0 to 2 ppm ammonia you would need to add 0.8 grams (8 ml) of standard 10% pure ammonia.

[Goldndoodle]

If you're not using live rock (I see you mention dry/base rock but nothing about live rock), cycling can take a loooong time. You should use a source for bacteria. I've used Dr. Tim's One and Only in the past and it worked really well.

Excellent point!

You need some form of starter bacteria - I used 10 lbs of fully cured live rock I bought from my LFS, and added that on top of the 100 lbs of dry rock I setup.

With the dry rock / live rock combo and using ACE ammonia it took my tank 4 weeks to complete cycle.

[scooter31707]

try a whole raw shrimp

[Savant]

I used that brand of ammonia (9ml) to cycle dry rock with a small handfull of rubble from the LFS live rock tank and it did take almost a month for the cycle to really get going. I didnt see anything for almost 3 weeks

[Mishri]

That's the difference between live rock and dry rock... My tampa bay saltwater, even with all the die-off took 10 days to cycle. With Dry rock it can take a month. With live rock bought from the store I've been able to add fish the next day.

[jimmy_beaner]

For what it's worth, I used Dr. Tim's One and Only to cycle my brand new 90 gallon tank with dry rock and it took a couple days.

[sbreefer]

the IO is half the price. cycles in a few days with out a Nitrite spike

[Mishri]

For what it's worth, I used Dr. Tim's One and Only to cycle my brand new 90 gallon tank with dry rock and it took a couple days.

I've read somewhere that the type of bacteria that comes in a bottle isn't the long term saltwater bacteria we want in our tanks. I'd continue monitoring ammonia levels once you add fish. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw some ammonia again.

[sbreefer]

it IS nirosomina and Nitrobacter -- exactly what you want for nitrification

[friedwilly]

To raise 100 gallons of water from 0 to 2 ppm ammonia you would need to add 0.8 grams (8 ml) of standard 10% pure ammonia.

So as recommended, 8mL for 100 gallons will raise to 2ppm. Conversion would be 1.62307 teaspoons. That's really all you need for 100 gallons?

[IvanTheTerrible]

That looks like the same ammonia I used. I put about 1/2 capful in a 20 gallon tank to get 2-3ppm. As others have said, it can take quite a while to get going without a bacteria source.

Patience is your friend. :thumbsup:

[jayball]

I originally used that ammonia with the IO bio-spira and about a lb of rock rubble from the lfs and live sand. To be honest I can not remember exactly how long it took but after about three weeks I was dropping in 1-2PPM a night to keep the population up before adding the first fish.

Add some rubble or a small bottle of bacteria (preferably both) and you will get on your way.

[Savant]

So as recommended, 8mL for 100 gallons will raise to 2ppm. Conversion would be 1.62307 teaspoons. That's really all you need for 100 gallons?

yep,

here's a calculator, ammonia is at the bottom
http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

[jimmy_beaner]

I've read somewhere that the type of bacteria that comes in a bottle isn't the long term saltwater bacteria we want in our tanks. I'd continue monitoring ammonia levels once you add fish. I wouldn't be surprised if you saw some ammonia again.

You should read up on Dr. Tim's. He discusses exactly that point ;)

[jminick2]

You basically just wasted that 3 weeks if you emptied your tank the reason it wasn't coming down because you are doing it the loooooooooonnnnggg way. If you have a friend that can give you some live sand or live rock it will speed things up a lot. You need to seed the tank with some bacteria.

[Mishri]

You should read up on Dr. Tim's. He discusses exactly that point ;)

I have, and I think it's completely false information. It has to do with the life cycle of the bacteria, whatever he sends you is dead. I also dislike his idea of how much ammonia to dose. -it's completely arbitrary with no regard to what size tank it is and how many fish you intend to start with. - larger tank, smaller fish, you don't need to be able to take down 2ppm in 24 hours... shark tank? might not be enough.

[jimmy_beaner]

I have, and I think it's completely false information. It has to do with the life cycle of the bacteria, whatever he sends you is dead. I also dislike his idea of how much ammonia to dose.

Interesting premise, but do excuse me if I believe someone that got their PhD in the area.
How can bacteria live in a bottle and not die for 6 months or a year?

A common misconception about bacteria in general is that they die if they are not fed. From a human being point of view this sounds perfectly reasonable: if you don’t eat, you die. However, bacteria are not human beings. Bacteria operate much differently than people and have a variety of ways to deal with those times when resources are not available for them to grow and reproduce. Some bacteria when stressed (from say lack of nutrients) form spores and go into a resting stage, waiting for conditions to improve. Nitrifiers do not form spores but have other mechanisms to deal with nutrient deficient periods. For nitrifiers, one way to deal with stressful conditions is to form a protective “shield” called EPS. EPS stands for extracellular polymeric substances and is, in simplistic terms, an organic protective shield that research shows inhibits various organisms from attacking and breaking open the cell wall of nitrifiers. Nitrifiers belong to a very old line of bacteria (millions of years) and they have developed ways to cope with very long periods of “drought.” Because the nitrifiers in DrTim’s One & Only are grown on a substrate, they can form EPS when needed and last 6 to 12 months in a bottle.

It also helps that I'm a PhD and have taught about bacteria and their life cycles at the university level.

[Mythicalelf]

I'm no PhD but here is what I think about the bacteria in a bottle and its cycle.

In layman's terms it goes into hibernation kinda like a bear during the winter. A bear is woke up by the warmer weather and the bacteria is woke up by the ammonia and nitrites. When they are woke up they are hungry and eat alot at first then settle into a normal routine. They will however die at some point just like the bear can't hibernate forever. That is really what is up for debate. HOw long they last. I think this is why some are refrigerated, to slow that process down(the hibernation and dieing off). Tim's is suppose to be formulated for saltwater which helps over some of the others that arn't. But there are some that are too.

I've used bacteria in a bottle before with no issues but this cycle I chose to go with the shrimp in the tank.

[Mishri]

Everybody on the internet is a PhD.

[jimmy_beaner]

Everybody on the internet is a PhD.

Yeah, but some of us are in real life, too ;)

That's the best part about science; it doesn't care what your beliefs are.