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DiscusHeckel
03/20/2015, 03:32 PM
This is a sealed unit. However, instructions say that the unit must not be pressured. This means that the effluent may not be dripped into a higher position than the unit.

Has anyone actually tried to dose into your main display while the stirrer sits in your sump?

Cheers

Larz_1
03/20/2015, 05:31 PM
Will not work.

I have one on my 120g, been using it for years.
Love it. Had to replace the motor once because I got it wet.
Other than that it has been perfect.

But, I'd suggest using it as recommended.

There is a siphon break on an elbow inside the unit. And a check valve from the ATO line into the stirrer.

It must sit higher than the tank you are dripping into.

I have mine sitting on top of my ATO container - higher than my sump with the output dripping into my sump.

If you try to go higher the back flow in the hose will cause the stirrer to overflow ... Probably getting the motor wet and ruining it too.

If you take the check valve out ... the entire volume of the stirrer would back wash the kalk into your ATO container and pump .... ruining your pump.

DiscusHeckel
03/21/2015, 02:30 AM
Many thanks for your reply.

Since I now have no choice but to drip the effluent into my sump, which is 20 (US) gallons, would this cause any precipitation and affect the running of my return pump? I will drip into the second section and the rerun pump is in the third section.

Regards

Larz_1
03/21/2015, 01:18 PM
There should not be any precipitation as only the clear water at the top of the reactor is dripped into your sump.

On my old 58g with a 20g sump, I dripped into the second section with my return pump in the third with no issues at all.
On my new 120g with a 40g sump, I drip into the filter socks ... no issues.

DiscusHeckel
03/22/2015, 06:29 AM
Great. Thanks. I will now go ahead and purchase this stirrer.

dkeller_nc
03/22/2015, 06:44 AM
Many thanks for your reply.

Since I now have no choice but to drip the effluent into my sump, which is 20 (US) gallons, would this cause any precipitation and affect the running of my return pump? I will drip into the second section and the rerun pump is in the third section.

Regards

Whether you can get only clear liquid out of the stirrer depends on your ATO pump. Specifically, you need to be able to adjust the flow rate of the pump such that the inlet velocity doesn't cause a "white out". This is easy with the Tunze Universal Osmolator - you just open the case and dial down the pump flow rate.

I'd imagine that using a dosing pump to push water through the unit and into the sump would also work well. A lot of folks use a dosing pump to dose kalkwasser and an ATO, setting the amount going through the dosing pump to deliver just under the minimum evaporation from their tank per day. That's helpful in that a precise amount of calcium and alkalinity is delivered to the tank regardless of variations in evaporation rate.

That's what I intend to do once Apex D.O.S. units are back in stock.

DiscusHeckel
03/22/2015, 07:51 AM
Thanks.

I will be operating my stirrer independently of my ATO (Tunze osmolator). I will be using a 7 ml/minute peri pump for dosing purposes attached a digital timer. I will meet about 80% of the evaporation rate by the stirrer and the rest of the evaporation will be met by the ATO. This is too ensure that I will not be dosing more than the evaporation rate.

dkeller_nc
03/22/2015, 08:12 AM
Thanks.

I will be operating my stirrer independently of my ATO (Tunze osmolator). I will be using a 7 ml/minute peri pump for dosing purposes attached a digital timer. I will meet about 80% of the evaporation rate by the stirrer and the rest of the evaporation will be met by the ATO. This is too ensure that I will not be dosing more than the evaporation rate.

You should be fine with that flow rate. In my AM kalk reactor, I'd estimate that the Tunze pump's producing 200 mL/min, which is low enough to keep the kalk on the bottom of the reactor.

DiscusHeckel
03/22/2015, 09:08 AM
I have another question:

Do you run the motor 24/7 or intermittently? Instructions state that the motor has a lifespan of 10000 hours.

Thanks

Larz_1
03/22/2015, 12:47 PM
I have been running mine 24/7 since I bought it 4-5 years ago.
That is how they are designed to be run.
I've had to replace the motor once because I got saltwater in it, causing it to fail.
Other than that, it has not given me any problems.

IMO constantly starting/stopping the motor will put more wear on it that running it all the time.

DiscusHeckel
03/22/2015, 01:16 PM
I have been running mine 24/7 since I bought it 4-5 years ago.
That is how they are designed to be run.
I've had to replace the motor once because I got saltwater in it, causing it to fail.
Other than that, it has not given me any problems.

IMO constantly starting/stopping the motor will put more wear on it that running it all the time.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

Another issue that has occupied my mind is the fact that the instructions do not make it clear what is meant by "cup" of kalkwasser. How much kalkwasser do you exactly replace every two to three weeks? Do you use (US) cup as a measure?

The final issue for me is the frequency of replacing the solution with new one. What I intend to do is to use Pinpoint Salinity monitor periodically (say once every two weeks) to measure the potency of the solution inside the stirrer before deciding to use new solution.

Thanks for your patience with me.

Larz_1
03/22/2015, 02:23 PM
I just "top off" my Kalk powder every 2 weeks or so ... I just kind of "eyball" it.
Every other month or so I'll take it off line and clean the reactor out completely and start with fresh Kalk powder.

BTW, I use Ms. Wages Pickling Lime for my Kalk powder.

DiscusHeckel
03/22/2015, 02:50 PM
I just "top off" my Kalk powder every 2 weeks or so ... I just kind of "eyball" it.
Every other month or so I'll take it off line and clean the reactor out completely and start with fresh Kalk powder.

BTW, I use Ms. Wages Pickling Lime for my Kalk powder.

Hmm, "eyeball" is just as vague as "coffee cup" mentioned in the instructions. :p

I might just use two (UK) cup full of kalk powder and measure its potency with my Salinity monitor to avoid measurement errors.

I have managed to get Rowa Kalk from my lfs at a very discounted price (I think I might have paid the whole sale price). He could not sell the tubs because I do not think anyone uses kalkwasser anymore in the UK. So, I bought the whole lot, which will keep me going for several years. :p

dkeller_nc
03/23/2015, 01:10 PM
You'll find out rather quickly how much powder to use; if you've a very fine kalkwasser powder, I'd guess that 2 U.S. cups will result in a "white out". I'd start with a couple of tablespoons of powder and go up from there.

I dump out the contents of my reactor once a week and replace the powder, but I'm also using a fairly small amount (perhaps 1/2 U.S. cup).

DiscusHeckel
03/23/2015, 02:07 PM
You'll find out rather quickly how much powder to use; if you've a very fine kalkwasser powder, I'd guess that 2 U.S. cups will result in a "white out". I'd start with a couple of tablespoons of powder and go up from there.

I dump out the contents of my reactor once a week and replace the powder, but I'm also using a fairly small amount (perhaps 1/2 U.S. cup).

Thanks. Good idea.

I am currently preparing kalkwasser solution daily daily and dosing manually. Hence, I know daily consumption amount (i.e. 6 gram kalk powder per day) based on the daily evaporation amount (i.e. approx. 4 litre). Weekly preparation of fresh solution will mean 42 grams of kalk powder. I guess this removes the guess work.

DiscusHeckel
05/03/2015, 09:52 AM
Hi again,

If you are using a separate peristaltic pump to feed RODI to your reactor, then what type do you use please?

I ended up buying a brand new Deltec KM 500 kalk stirrer instead of Aqua Medic one.

The problem I am having is to produce consistent effluent rate.

I am using a normal water pump to feed RODI as shown in the photo. I have a T-piece to reduce the back pressure on the pump. I adjust the effluent rate using the tap on the inlet of the reactor and the tap on the T-piece.

The problem is that as the top up container gets empty the suction pressure drops, which then drops the total head pressure. This in turn causes drop in the effluent rate. When the top up container is full, I produce 7 ml/minute effluent. As the container gets empty the effluent rate gradually drops down to 4 ml/minute. This ultimately causes fluctuation in alkalinity and calcium levels in my tank. I am beginning to regret my decision to go down the stirrer route.

I considered using a peristaltic pump, but a peristaltic pump needs to produce enough head pressure to overcome the check valve installed on the reactor. Deltec has told me that "the size of the feed pump is not important as long as it provides a head of app 1 metre.". If I use a peristaltic pump, will I be able to use the tap on the inlet if it produces more water than I require. Would a peristaltic pump cope with back pressure?

Thanks in anticipation.

dkeller_nc
05/03/2015, 10:06 AM
Yes, as configured you really can't meter a consistent dosage with the type of pump you've pictured. This would be true of any pressure & time type of metering scheme - in order to be reasonably consistent, the pressure has to be constant.

That's why many of us simply use the ATO to meter water into the kalk stirrer, which then overflows into the tank. The ATO controller prevents over-dosing the tank, since water pumped into the kalk stirrer equals kalkwasser dosed to the tank. The downside is that changing evaporation rates will change the amount of kalkwasser dosed to the tank. However, most of us require 2-part dosing in addition to the kalkwasser, so the relatively minor change in evaporation rates week-to-week in conjunction with the low concentration of calcium and alkalinity in kaklwasser doesn't cause large swings in alkalinity in the tank.

A suitably sized, reasonably decent peristaltic pump will solve your issue; peristaltic pumps are constant-volume devices rather than constant pressure devices like centrifugal pumps. One meter of head pressure is 1.4 psig - just about any peristaltic pump will deliver a head pressure far in excess of this.

moondoggy4
05/03/2015, 11:13 AM
Great thread, looking to get a Aqua Medic as well, tagging along.

DiscusHeckel
05/03/2015, 11:41 AM
Yes, as configured you really can't meter a consistent dosage with the type of pump you've pictured. This would be true of any pressure & time type of metering scheme - in order to be reasonably consistent, the pressure has to be constant.

That's why many of us simply use the ATO to meter water into the kalk stirrer, which then overflows into the tank. The ATO controller prevents over-dosing the tank, since water pumped into the kalk stirrer equals kalkwasser dosed to the tank. The downside is that changing evaporation rates will change the amount of kalkwasser dosed to the tank. However, most of us require 2-part dosing in addition to the kalkwasser, so the relatively minor change in evaporation rates week-to-week in conjunction with the low concentration of calcium and alkalinity in kaklwasser doesn't cause large swings in alkalinity in the tank.

A suitably sized, reasonably decent peristaltic pump will solve your issue; peristaltic pumps are constant-volume devices rather than constant pressure devices like centrifugal pumps. One meter of head pressure is 1.4 psig - just about any peristaltic pump will deliver a head pressure far in excess of this.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it. I have a spare peristaltic pump (2 ml /minute), which is not suitable for this application. Nevertheless I have connected it to my reactor to find out how it would work with it. As you advised its effluent pressure has overcome the reactor's check valve. I then measured the volume of my reactor's effluent. It measured 1.5 ml after 60 seconds. I placed the peri pump at the same height as the reactor's outlet during this experiment, hence zero head height. I guess nothing is perfect. Because I will be using a peri pump, I assume that I should not be restricting its effluent. Can you please confirm that? If you agree, then my reactor's inlet tap will be fully open at all times. I do not want to get a variable speed pump as they tend to be more expensive and noisy.

Subject to your opinion above, I am going to order the 7 ml / minute version of this pump and connect it to an analogue timer to run the reactor along with my other two peri pumps that dose Randy's recipe two solutions (alk and cacl2). My reef tank is full of acroporas and even with 4000 ml kalk solution per day, I still have to about 180 ml of part-2 solutions to meet the daily alk/calcl2 demand of my corals.

regards

scchase
06/27/2020, 07:34 PM
I know this is an old thread but anyone happen to know what the replacement motor for this unit is?