plumbing won't drain correctly

[zackk42989]

can somebody please assist me I have drilled my 75 gallon display tank to run in 9 breeding tank on a custom built Stadium forgot to add door so Pipes and don't know what to do can not get to drain properly and not get any water circulation first Tank Keeps overflowing can somebody help. I just registered on the site so forgive me if I'm putting the thread in the wrong place

[zackk42989]

Please someone help about to freAK out

[Silent Mike]

You need to try to explain your setup and what is going on better. A diagram would definitely help.

[zackk42989]

Is there a way I can post u pictures

[zackk42989]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qed3mnvc9phtr8l/AABhgGQTzbBy4_9vZlWS9VM0a

[zackk42989]

Can u see the pics tried to post url

[zackk42989]

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qed3mnvc9phtr8l/AABhgGQTzbBy4_9vZlWS9VM0a

[fishgate]

Need a diagram for sure or picture (we can't see anything). It sounds like you have too much water able to be pumped up into your tank. You should have the return section of your sump hold a volume of water that is not enough to overflow your tank in case of drain failure. You sump should also be able to hold any water that will drain out in the case of return pump failure.

[zackk42989]

So does anyone know why I can't post the pics copied url from email i.sent pic to

[zackk42989]

http:// https://www.dropbox.com/sc/qed3mnvc9phtr8l/AABhgGQTzbBy4_9vZlWS9VM0a

[zackk42989]

Need instruction on how to post the pictures

[zackk42989]

Keep trying to post the url

[Tigerdragon]

If tank is overflowing you dont have enough flow from tank to sump or return pump is too big for drain. Put a ball valve on return to tank and throttle it back till you achieve a balance of drain to return.

[zackk42989]

Wish someone would explain how to post the pics so I can show you what is going on

[Tigerdragon]

Click the go advanced button to be able to attach pics

[zackk42989]

Or post email address and I'll send pics there.

[zackk42989]

Saying upload error max file size is only 120kb all pics are 3 mb. I'm trying here any suggestions

[fishgate]

You need to have someplace on the Internet that you can post your pictures. Then you link to them here on the forum. Like google or something like that.

[zackk42989]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1n7xdnm5zgy6tc/20150325_144758__1427311756_172.56.13.155.jpg?dl=0

[zackk42989]

I'dk if anyone can see these
.

[zackk42989]

Ok got it now but phone bout to die give me 10 min I'll upload more pics

[zackk42989]

It's not plumbed to the display yet just won't drain right tried using straws just don't want to scrape it all its Glued got to get it running

[zackk42989]

Another pic

[fishgate]

I see the picture now. Need more. What is flooding again? Where does the water pump from? One of the tanks (the last one) or do you have a sump.

[zackk42989]

Well hoping to get all the tanks draining with the display beside it. The display does run to the sump underneath but not connected yet to the 8 tank display all drains 1 inch bulkheads. The water being pump from tank 8 being the bottom closet to the tank to tank one right above it. Get it running right hook the display into 1 sump into 8

[zackk42989]

When I said straws earlier in the pick I thought the ploblem with 1 draining is dorsal standpipe air water ratio stuff so I drilled a hole stuck a straw in it. Just doesn't work seems like back pressure somtimes draining in reverse if tank 3 is low 4 somehow leeks back up the pipe into it.

[zackk42989]

Pics

[zackk42989]

getting pics on here still little funny

[etepperman]

my guess it that since the water need to flow through all of the tanks and all of those tube one after each other, that your drain rate is significantly reduced.

I assume that the pump runs from the lowest point to the highest.

Can you tell me this, when you turn off the return pipe, and put in a cup or two of water, does it come out into the sump? How long does it take for the water to start coming out of the bottom, and how long to stop. This might give us some incite as top your flow rate.

[zackk42989]

I don't know if you can see it but the tanks go right to left were looking at the back side. The 3rd tank from the right is empty and the 4th from right is almost full just up to the bulkhead and is draining back into 2nd from the right backwards that's y I say backpressure. Is backpressure causing tank 1 at the top closest to display not to drain fast enough b4 it over flows. Only a 340 gph pump puming water. The next pic I'll show is how far bulkhead 1 is submerged in water and not draining fast enough.

[etepperman]

"just doesn't work seems like back pressure somtimes draining in reverse if tank 3 is low 4 somehow leeks back up the pipe into it. "

Yup that will happen. In your setup 3 will need to be higher than 4 or four will flow back until they are at the same level. In your setup each tank should fill up one after each other. Until they are all at the same level.

Think of it like a two arm scale. the weight of the water in tank 4 is more than 3 so 4 will push down, and raise the level in tank 3. Until they are balanced.

[etepperman]

Once the tanks are at even levels the back pressure will go away. Is the tank your water pump going to the highest of all the tanks?

[etepperman]

One the left in the first tank there is a long pipe running to it from above. What is that connected to?

[zackk42989]

http://www.jpeg-optimizer.com/uploaded_images_final/142731700681862680062__1427317091_172.56.13.155.jpg

[etepperman]

BTW, your setup in the 8 tanks if fine. So we just need to determiner what is after the last thank and before the first tank. That will be the source of the issue.

stay with me. we will figure this out.

[etepperman]

Is that a picture of a tank siting above the top row of 4?

[zackk42989]

So not good can we fix it.soulutions is what I need cause I'd have to trash it all its all glued only thing I could salvage are the tanks if I gotta tear it down a lot in bulkheads and a lot of time

[zackk42989]

The bulkhead pic is 1 not draining just wanted to show it was submerged ateast 3/4 inch hope it's enough should be I'd think

[etepperman]

What is in the tank the bulkhead is piped to?

[etepperman]

It is a good setup, you don't need to take it down. I don't so anyway. I think we can work this out.

[zackk42989]

one of the big problems is that it is supposed so beplumbed to the sump and display so i have to have them flowing the best i can to keep the water turnover up. the pump pumping water is only 340 gph and the tanks cant handle that so if i would have cut the drain from the display to sump i would have been screwed unless i dumb down the return line. is there anyway i can keep the flow rate up.

[zackk42989]

theres nothing in none of the tanks all eight empty except i do have my proteinskimmer sitting in one the tanks just storing it there lol

[etepperman]

So if I understand the stet-up

[Display]
[Row of four]
[Row of four]
[Sump]

[Sump pumps water back to Display]

[etepperman]

Funny question, where it the drain whole on the display tank. Bottom or top?

And if it is at the bottom do you have a pipe running to the top of the water?

[zackk42989]

just need them to flow faster so i can drain the display into the 8 tanks and then the tanks to the sump back to display. actually have not seen them flow at all cause the only pump i have the smallest anyway is 340gph. and tank 1 top shelf closet to display keeps building pressure up and over flowing as the others keep filling. remember im just pumping water from the last 10 gal tank 8 bottom shelf closet to the display to take 1 top shelf closest to the display

[etepperman]

So basically you are putting more water into the tank then it can drain.

I don't see a solution other than lowering your flow rate.

[zackk42989]

yes u understand correct and i drlled the display long time ago top corner same height as i built the stand so the top first row of 4 tanks are 1 inch below the display top

[zackk42989]

yes but that wont work i feel my tank will get dirty i have a huge mag pump on the tank now with an enductor. less flow doesnt seem to me would be good for the display less than 340 gph but how much less u know probally have to dumb it down to 100 gph. NO good would rather scrape the tanks than ruin my display

[zackk42989]

but would really like to plumb this just wish there was another way other than throwing away all bulkheads and plumbing just bought em shouldnt have gluded em but i did. and no way to cut and seperate them so was hoping to do some air water ratio tuning and get this **** rolling.

[zackk42989]

and i know a 1inch can drain more my display drain is 1 inch. I know it has gravity pull and stuff but idk..just wish there was a way to relieve the back pressure so the 1 inch drains can flow. would it help to drill the tops of the pvc and add the straws for air flow. If so should i do it to all of them. only the first two have big straws the other ones have little rigid airline tubing really small holes and really small pieces. I added the larger ones on the first two to see if it helped but couldn't tell. just worries me to do them all like that cause bigger the hole i drill in it the harder it is to seal back up.

Should it drain faster with air added?
with the back pressure will it mater if air is added because it seems to have back pressure?
It seems to me like since its the same height as the others its only going to drain so fast since there's no gravitational pull on none of the water?
Is there a way to accomplish a full siphon so it consistently pulls water threw all the tanks

[PhaneSoul]

it should drain slower with air introduced, air will take place of water making the waterflow slower.

can you try starting the pump very slowly and as the system starts circulating speeding the pump up slowly? this way the pipes all have a chance to purge the air. it seems like air might be getting trapped in the 90 degree elbows & may be creating your backpressure

[PhaneSoul]

without slowing the flow i don't think this will work very well. the drain for tank one should be just a little higher then tank 2, and tank 2 higher then tank three. pretty much the water levels should look like stairs between the tanks in order to have higher flows. if your worried about keeping the tanks clean add powerheads. when you plumb everything evenly it takes a lot longer for gravity to do its job, had you gone horizontally with the plumbing instead of at a 45 degree angle the backpressure wouldn't have been so great and it would work 'faster'

[zackk42989]

well im free to take more suggestions so let me know fellas feeling real discouraged

[stinkyreef]

Was this a custom design or is there someone who has one like it? As I understand you are draining the main tank into these small tanks and then into the sump, correct? I've had setup many breeder tanks and have a 1 1/2" main line with tee's at every tank for each tanks bulkhead drain. I don't see what you are trying to accomplish this way other than saving space? Gravity would take care of the water tank to tank but water seeks its own level so if the drain can't handle the flow from tank to tank, maybe your pipes are undersized. Sorry I probably don't know what I'm talking about... :)

[uncleof6]

You don't have drains, you have balance pipes. Balance pipes are only worthwhile at extremely low flow rates, because there is no gravity advantage. As someone else mentioned, the tanks need to be seperate, and stair stepped so there is a gravity advantage "tank" to "tank". With the current setup that is not possible. Hence this setup will never work right. Additionally, multiple gravity feeds such as you would need to use, will never balance out right, as no two drains will ever operate exactly the same. Therefore it is a flood waiting to happen.

The only hope of getting it to work, are seperate discrete drain lines, one from each "tank" or "section" all the way to the sump, and seperate feed to each tank from the return pump. That way water in will always equal out. Hence no flood risk, save for a clogged drain, which of course would make for a nice flood.

[zackk42989]

Well that sucks but thanks for the replies

[zackk42989]

Reef keeping gone wrong

[etepperman]

on last idea. but likely not worth the effort, and it may not work.

You can try to add another bulk head connect for each tank, that will double the flow rate. Try, to put both holes at the bottom, then there is at least some down pressure if one tank get higher than another.

[zackk42989]

So I was wondering does a drain have to go straight down to carry the most water or does it just need to be slightly angled down. figured I ask before I go down here and trash the setup and try again

[myaerica]

I dont know if I'm looking at this wrong but that will never work. the pressure from the previous tank will never let water drain. You would need a teared system where each tank drains into the next above the water line.

[uncleof6]

So I was wondering does a drain have to go straight down to carry the most water or does it just need to be slightly angled down. figured I ask before I go down here and trash the setup and try again

You should strive to keep the drain lines angled down at 45° if straight down is not practical. Less can work, but I would keep it better than 15° (you can get 15° fittings from Spears.)