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View Full Version : Shallow sand bed vacuuming.


fizzlefish
04/07/2015, 10:55 AM
I have a 1" sugar fine grain sand bed in my 60g cube. I dont usually vacuum it much other than crap i can visually see on the surface. Even when i do that i am careful not to disturb the sand. Recently i have a bit of cyano popping up only on my sand bed. I did a water change last night and decided to vacuum it up taking large portions of my sand bed with it. After looking around i see that people with shallow sand beds usually vacuum them as regular maintenance. I dont mind doing so but i will end up without a sand bed after awhile because i end up sucking the sand away. Is this normally what happens and people just replace the missing sand eventually?

PhaneSoul
04/07/2015, 11:02 AM
Sugar fine sand is tricky since you always en up taking a bunch out. I know using bigger grains of sand like aragonite is a bit easier, you don't vacuum out as much sand, just detritus. What I would do if I had sugar fine sand is do you vacuuming like normal then rinse the sand that got removed really good and either put it back in, replace with new, or rinse it & save it and put it back in after you have vacuumed a couple times.

Hodge1995
04/07/2015, 11:07 AM
If planning to vacuum the sandbed crushed coral works the best. You will not suck up as much.

sfoister
04/07/2015, 11:07 AM
I have a mix of sugar and shells, rocks, all sorts of stuff. If I ever vacuum I take a lot out, so I don't vacuum. I just make sure I have good flow and lots of critters that will eat detritus. I haven't had issues with my substrate yet.

fizzlefish
04/07/2015, 11:08 AM
Sugar fine sand is tricky since you always en up taking a bunch out. I know using bigger grains of sand like aragonite is a bit easier, you don't vacuum out as much sand, just detritus. What I would do if I had sugar fine sand is do you vacuuming like normal then rinse the sand that got removed really good and either put it back in, replace with new, or rinse it & save it and put it back in after you have vacuumed a couple times.

That is the idea i had. Washing the old sand. I bought some more to replace the old for now but once that is gone i will start cleaning it. Though $8 for 10 pounds is pretty cheap. esp in a small tank like mine.

Toddrtrex
04/07/2015, 11:20 AM
What are you using to vacuum it with?

I have used something like this for 20+ years, and have found it works well. The longer the wide part, the more control you have over the sand. I found controlling the flow with my finger at the other end helps a great deal.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/toddrtrex/WC.jpg

cloak
04/07/2015, 11:36 AM
Instead of vacuuming your SSB you could try using your finger, a stick or a small power head and stir it up right before a water change. While some of the detritus will be removed when you siphon out the water, running some sort of mechanical filtration for a few hours will remove a lot of crap as well. Being that you've never done this before though, you might want to do it in small sections at a time first. Once this is done, then you can turnover the entire thing on a regular basis. GL.

zooman72
04/07/2015, 02:06 PM
As already mentioned, either rinse it and put it back in, buy some extra and rotate a certain amount with each change, or switch to something that is a little easier to siphon, such as CaribSea's "special grade seafloor". You might also want to look at your flow - cyano tends to grow where there is limited flow (and excess nutrients), or stagnant areas.

Also, as Todd mentioned, if you are not using a "gravel vac", do so and it is much easier to siphon the substrate without removing it.

fizzlefish
04/07/2015, 02:18 PM
As already mentioned, either rinse it and put it back in, buy some extra and rotate a certain amount with each change, or switch to something that is a little easier to siphon, such as CaribSea's "special grade seafloor". You might also want to look at your flow - cyano tends to grow where there is limited flow (and excess nutrients), or stagnant areas.

Also, as Todd mentioned, if you are not using a "gravel vac", do so and it is much easier to siphon the substrate without removing it.

The tank is still pretty new. Cyano will disappear once my vodka dosage gets to where it needs to be. I also need to limit flow on my sand bed or it will push the sand and reveal the bottom of the tank. I have thought about going with larger grain sand but i will give it a few months before i make my decision. I have thought about stirring it up and siphoning it out of the water column.

fizzlefish
04/07/2015, 02:28 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. I have about 8 grave vacs. I already use those when possible though they still suck up fine grain sand. Like i said i may just switch out to a larger sand in the future.

PhaneSoul
04/07/2015, 09:53 PM
The tank is still pretty new. Cyano will disappear once my vodka dosage gets to where it needs to be. I also need to limit flow on my sand bed or it will push the sand and reveal the bottom of the tank. I have thought about going with larger grain sand but i will give it a few months before i make my decision. I have thought about stirring it up and siphoning it out of the water column.

do you have a good skimmer to compliment the vodka dosing with?

Hodge1995
04/08/2015, 08:10 AM
do you have a good skimmer to compliment the vodka dosing with?


I agree! ^^^Vodka dosing to me is scary.
I never thought I would agree with Phane!

laga77
04/08/2015, 08:20 AM
With fine sand you need a longer vacuum tube. The one in the photo is too short. Get one longer than your tank is deep if need be and cut to length so the top is just under surface of water. This allows you more control over the amount of sand picked up and the time needed to let the heavier sand sink back down. It also requires technique and practice.

PhaneSoul
04/08/2015, 08:20 AM
Ohhh hodge stop it ;), there is plenty we agree on, although I think my way is best for the critters there is no sense in arguing all the time, we both want what's best we just disagree how to get there. But in the end it's about passing the info along and making sure others are able to sustain systems that won't kill everything that gets put into it

foundnemo11
04/08/2015, 10:14 AM
I haven't vacuumed mine since I got it and my tank is flawless (years) I have a sand sifting starfish and whatever other hitchhikers. My sand is clean and no algae or nitrates

3dees
04/08/2015, 10:21 AM
I suck up sand every time I clean the tank. I just put it in a small pail, let it dry, and then wash it and put it back in. never had a problem.

kissman
04/08/2015, 10:27 AM
I have been putting my python to the glass and watch the sand rise in vaccum tube the pinching the tube and letting the sand fall but not so much the detritus does to.

fizzlefish
04/08/2015, 11:28 AM
do you have a good skimmer to compliment the vodka dosing with?

reef octopus sro 2000. It may not be cyano i have. It was diatoms for awhile that got really thick. Started to turn reddish so i just assumed it was cyano. Only on my sand bed and not rock work. Rock work is spotless. I only clean the glass once every 3 days. I rarely have algae on the glass since i started dosing vodka. I love the stuff. My SPS has colored up a lot and my LPS is doing great as well. I also have a wrasse that likes to kick the stuff everywhere.

Sk8r
04/08/2015, 11:34 AM
I'm doing some too-long-postponed sump cleaning: using a tube. I turn off the ato, sucking the discard down into a 4 gallon bucket, toss it, replace with 4 gallons precisely measured replacement saltwater, turn on ato; repeat every few days or daily. It's slow, but it's water change combined with substrate muckout, which works well, if you have a sump that's high up enough to give you gravity flow.

fizzlefish
04/08/2015, 11:42 AM
I'm doing some too-long-postponed sump cleaning: using a tube. I turn off the ato, sucking the discard down into a 4 gallon bucket, toss it, replace with 4 gallons precisely measured replacement saltwater, turn on ato; repeat every few days or daily. It's slow, but it's water change combined with substrate muckout, which works well, if you have a sump that's high up enough to give you gravity flow.

I originally was going to elevate it. I had everything all setup and realized i forgot to put it on the platform i made for it so i could use a siphon on it. UGH was so mad. I will be draining it here in a few days to change some plumbing and clean the sump.

fizzlefish
04/08/2015, 11:50 AM
This is a short video from a few weeks ago. You can see the sand bed getting dirty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Bg1SvpQjM

PhaneSoul
04/08/2015, 02:48 PM
I originally was going to elevate it. I had everything all setup and realized i forgot to put it on the platform i made for it so i could use a siphon on it. UGH was so mad. I will be draining it here in a few days to change some plumbing and clean the sump.

You can use a little pump and put hose attachment on it and literally vacuume out the gunk

fizzlefish
04/08/2015, 03:13 PM
You can use a little pump and put hose attachment on it and literally vacuume out the gunk
Great idea.

PhaneSoul
04/08/2015, 03:43 PM
Great idea.

It really does wonders, when my tank was bb I had a 55g sump and I could vacuume all the crud off the bottom in 5 mins with 10g of water. Doesn't get much easier then that

ReefChasing
01/28/2016, 10:25 AM
Use a long siphon designed for big tanks. It should be around 18" long. When the sand gets about 3/4 of the way up the big tube, kink the hose with your hand until you see the sand start falling down the siphon tube. I have oolite sand that is incredibly fine and I don't have any problems with this method. You will suck out maybe a 1/8 of a cup per 4 gallons vacuumed but it can just be returned to the tank.

It will take a little practice but this method will allow you to vacuum and not worry about sucking all of your sand out.

**As the sand falls back down the tube all of the crap will continue to get sucked out since it is lighter than the sand.