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View Full Version : Ideas on Cutting Corners Do's and Dont's


Just2Many
04/10/2015, 09:14 PM
I'm doing a presentation on Saltwater Do's and Don'ts, Over the years I've heard so many different things that to me allot just make since. However iwant to start at a beginning that everyone can get. So I was looking at more common things that people try and fail at or things that you think save money but cost more in the end...

CStrickland
04/10/2015, 10:04 PM
Not really cutting corners, but I shoulda listened when people said buy a bigger tank to start off with. Even though 10g feels safer like it isn't a commitment, you grow out of it real quick. If I had bought spendy gear for it I woulda been mad when I upgraded after a couple months.

Also, livestock research. I feel really sorry for people who get snookered by the LFS, cause it's a waste of money AND super depressing when their fish die, or they have to make a tough choice about returning them.

nicholasb
04/10/2015, 10:07 PM
Cheap power heads!!. My power heads are very basic but made by tunze. Cheap power heads costing 5 times less, give you the same power. A year later they no longer give you the same power output, but because the decrease is slow you just don't realize.
Reef safe ich treatments, they never work. A Q.T tank is the only way.

KabayanReef
04/11/2015, 04:27 AM
A huge "don't" would be trying to limit the budget on equipment (lights , ph , pumps etc etc.) only to find out later that after sub par performance from "inexpensive" equipment is only to be remedied by upgrading to a quality-brand , you now "lose" the money you "thought" was gonna make the hobby a bit cheaper + pay for the amount you tried to dodge in the first place by going cheap resulting in two bills instead of one. Not only that but the regret and disgust you feel afterwards :lmao:

Just2Many
04/11/2015, 05:21 AM
Great stuff keep it coming

bundybear1981
04/11/2015, 05:33 AM
Getting tank pre-drill or drilled before setting up, down the track a sump becomes more and more valuable, great way to keep equipment out of sight and add extra volume.

ATO to keep the water level stable (can be done manually but far easier with ATO)

Good quality RODI system. Pays for itself in no time.

Cstaricansrfer1
04/11/2015, 05:33 AM
"Don't" cut corners and buy a fish now that will out grow your tank because you plan on getting a larger aquarium soon. Buy the fish when you already have the larger one set up. A lot of times new tank builds get delayed and the livestock will be the ones to suffer.

intyme
04/11/2015, 05:45 AM
Don't cut corners on housekeeping! It's your world you make them live in... Keep it clean for your critters

Just2Many
04/11/2015, 06:45 AM
Love the replies

dkeller_nc
04/11/2015, 07:06 AM
The #1, in my opinion, has already been mentioned - it's far better to buy significantly fewer pieces of quality equipment than to buy a "complete" list of bottom-rung equipment at the outset.

With respect to on-going costs, avoiding branded supplements and learning to DIY for only what you really need is important both for cost savings and quality of outcome. There's zero reason to purchase branded calcium, alkalinity or magnesium supplements, for example; if you choose to carbon-dose, plain old vinegar works just as well as a branded supplement that's 50X more expensive on a volume basis.

And buying and adding supplements to your tank that either contain "mystery" ingredients or promise an "all in one" solution is not only expensive, there's usually very little evidence and/or testing to show that a given one will work or provide a benefit to your tank. Examples here are items that are touted as coralline algae promoters, calcium and alkalinity supplements that purport to contain extra trace elements, trace element mixtures in general, and/or pH buffers.

bart2546
04/11/2015, 07:10 AM
+1 on the quality equipment, there is a price tag at those levels for a reason and while there are things in life that you can get by with on the cheap, when you're SUPPORTING life itself, quality is key.

Another +1 on a bigger tank to start AFTER doing the research to see what fish you like. If a larger fish enters your radar as a must have, just get a big tank and take your time.

My final .02 cents is read everything and form your own general opinion and move forward. Everything has a left, right, up, and down statement/mindset with it so aside from a few items, definitive answers are few and far between.

kmbyrnes
04/11/2015, 07:19 AM
DON'T Buy it because the LFS says so. This goes for livestock as well as equipment.

DON'T Buy it unless you need it. Most toys are neat and will not hurt your tank, but the money tied up in stuff I don't use could have paid for those lights about 3 months earlier.

DO Consider used equipment, Just be careful.

DO Buy good gear first. It took a year and 3 sets of lights to get good coral growth. Thank goodness for CL and a FOWLR to repurpose them.

DO Buy right sized gear. Got a 'good deal' on CL for a set of wave makers.. nope. Too small.

CuzzA
04/11/2015, 07:19 AM
My answer probably isn't the best in terms of putting together a presentation as I think the "Do's and Don'ts" can be wrapped up in two sentences which would make for a pretty quick presentation and no one would feel like they got their money's worth. Boooo!!! :lmao: But, it's the truth and it's pretty simple... RESEARCH.

DO your research on "every" aspect of this hobby. Whether it's livestock purchases to equipment purchases or techniques and/or approaches to tackle challenges and problems.

DON'T fail to do your research on "every" aspect of this hobby. Whether it's livestock purchases to equipment purchases or techniques and/or approaches to tackle challenges and problems.

hbrochs
04/11/2015, 07:23 AM
Think about what kind of tank you are going to have before you buy corals.

It took me awhile to realize that SPS and LPS have slightly different needs.

Just2Many
04/11/2015, 07:47 PM
Research is always a great place to start, seems like I want to touch on this more than anything.

coralsnaked
04/11/2015, 08:21 PM
Don't try to emulate others to get it right faster because
Not every opinion matters
There is no abolutely right way
Every tank is different
Just take the time to know your livestock

Clowny88
04/11/2015, 08:54 PM
DO have a good idea of what your tank will be home to over the long haul.

Mandarins? Tangs? Corals?... (What kind?) Anemones? Clams?

These are just a couple of examples... Out of hundreds. But each one of those dictates the lighting you need, fuge/sump needed or not, size of tank, what can go together and what cant, what will be needed to supplement the tank?

Prework, prework, prework...

whiteshark
04/11/2015, 10:05 PM
Don't think this hobby is or can be cheap. It's not and it never will be. Person A may run a tank just as beautiful as person B's tank on half the budget, but that's relative and ultimately still a lot of money. Even if you cheap out on all the equipment it's STILL expensive.

Don't think this hobby is set-it-and-forget-it. You're going to invest not only a relatively large sum of money, but also a large chunk of time, both up front and during the life of the tank.

Do consider the first two points before proceeding. If you're not committed to this monetarily and time wise, just stop yourself before you end up regretting it.

Don't let the first three points scare you away.

Do understand that the beautiful examples of tanks you see are the result of a lot of time and money.

Do understand that the time investment is not just in maintenance, but in research. This hobby requires a vast amount of knowledge, and there is no point at which you know it all. It's a constant learning process. The more knowledge you gain up front, the more successful the tank will be after you set it up. But the learning can not end there. You must continue to gain knowledge and understand what's going on in your aquarium to have success long term.

Do understand that there are several ways to go about this. You will often get several opinions on the same topic. Often it will get heated as people are very passionate about what has worked for them. Understand that it is not a personal attack, and no one is trying to make you feel stupid. They just don't want to see you fail or waste money.

Do understand that you will have to chose from those opinions the course of action you believe is most beneficial for your tank. You will never get a 100% agreement on how to proceed. It is on you to take the opinions you hear, couple it with the research you've done, and come to your best conclusion.

Do understand that the less research you do, the less equipped you will be to sort through opinions.

Do understand that doing no research and just asking what to do will not allow you to draw any kind of educated conclusion from the myriad of opinions you will receive and will leave you frustrated before you even begin.

Don't trust the word of your LFS. Their are good ones and bad ones, but they are all ultimately businesses with the goal of making money. They will push the equipment brands they sell and they will tell you what you want to hear in order to make a sale. Knowledge is power for you. Don't ever walk out of a store with an animal you knew nothing about going in. Go home, research it, and come back if you've decided it can be housed in your tank.

Do hold your livestocks well being in the highest regard. It is the most important factor. Not your enjoyment. Yes, the enjoyment you get is the ultimate reward, but you must never sacrifice your livestocks well being for your enjoyment. Every choice you make must be made with the well being of your intended livestock as the most important and deciding factor.

magikarptrainer
04/11/2015, 10:59 PM
This will be unpopular, but whatever.

Start with a nano tank and start cheap. you'll know after a while and it is established or growing if it is the right hobby for you or not, it will give you a chance to experiment with different equipment such a lighting without the huge investment. You'll have a clearer idea about how to keep livestock happy, their limitations and what things like 'semi aggressive' actually mean in practise

I've recently set up a 4x2x2 with expensive kit that i am super happy with.

Without my experience keeping a 14gal cube i wouldn't have been able to make informed choices about the equipment i got, livestock i enjoy and intend to keep, efficient husbandry and even stuff like how to aquascape effectively no matter how much research i did. In fact, i trawled the forums for months trying to plan my first tank, don't underestimate how much information given here is wrong or conflicting, without experience you can't make informed decisions on this information.



Which brings me to my next point. Take advice from people who keep successful tanks. Some of the most outspoken people on forums can barely keep a brown zoa alive in their tank.

Just2Many
04/12/2015, 06:48 AM
I agree with the start small idea... I don't know about all the way down to 14 gallon but 20 long tanks have a great learning experience and allow allot of thinking to go on before one moves to a new tank.

kmbyrnes
04/12/2015, 07:48 AM
+1 to start small.
I had the start small idea as well. It worked, sort of.
When I didn't kill everything in he first 2 months, I got a used 110 on Craigslist.
Then then the 3 months of REAL research, building and testing began.
After that tank was up and running for a year, I got a 125 as a FOWLR.
I took the nano down in December because it was getting neglected.
Now I'm try to figure out where to put a 300 gallon tank, and get the wife to allow it.

CuzzA
04/12/2015, 08:13 AM
I disagree on the start small. Nanos usually have more challenges than a mid to large reef tank. Starting small, is like starting a new video game you have no experience with on advanced settings. IMO, the best tank to start with is a 40 breeder.

The 40 allows for a good aquascape, it's drillable to allow for an overflow and sump, it will be much more stable than a small nano, the livestock choices open up immensely when comparing a small nano to a 40 breeder. It really allows the hobbyist to learn from experience of all the typical aspects of a larger system. For example, building overflow boxes and plumbing, etc. Yet it's still affordable enough to setup properly. For $60 one can buy a 40 breeder and a 20 long sump. That is super cheap to have your glass paid for less than a c note.

Dmorty217
04/12/2015, 08:21 AM
DON'T Buy it because the LFS says so. This goes for livestock as well as equipment.

DON'T Buy it unless you need it. Most toys are neat and will not hurt your tank, but the money tied up in stuff I don't use could have paid for those lights about 3 months earlier.

DO Consider used equipment, Just be careful.

DO Buy good gear first. It took a year and 3 sets of lights to get good coral growth. Thank goodness for CL and a FOWLR to repurpose them.

DO Buy right sized gear. Got a 'good deal' on CL for a set of wave makers.. nope. Too small.

+1 and NOTHING good happens quickly in this hobby

Just2Many
04/12/2015, 08:36 AM
Well tank size isn't always cutting corners as much as buying it because it's cheaper.

Just2Many
04/12/2015, 08:39 AM
Im lookimg at more things like, not testing regularly because you feel that the tank looks good.
Or fixing problems with a bandaid instead of looking at the source, (ie. Lights, filtration, feeding) those things can't be cut.

CuzzA
04/12/2015, 09:19 AM
Im lookimg at more things like, not testing regularly because you feel that the tank looks good.
Or fixing problems with a bandaid instead of looking at the source, (ie. Lights, filtration, feeding) those things can't be cut.

For those with experience, some tests can be put off. For example, the growth rate of algae on the glass or a slight dull/browning of corals is a good indication that nutrients are too high. Also, we see all the time folks with an explosion of nuisance algae yet, the test results show low to undetectable nutrients. So learning visual cues is important. Also, tests aren't always accurate. If a nitrate test result shows excessive nitrates, but my tank looks great, I'm not going to take any action, other than to continue to monitor it.

As far as cutting corners, one specific example we see all the time which I would characterize as snake oil is ph buffers. They don't work. Period. Ph is a result of alkalinity and the level of co2 in the water, consequently from high levels of co2 inside a home. I wouldn't even call these ph buffers a bandaid.

Just2Many
04/12/2015, 10:03 AM
Buffers good one

Just2Many
04/12/2015, 01:24 PM
Well Ive started a small list listed here lets continue to add...
In NO ORDER- So don't yell at me...
Research
Speed
Tank Size
Equipment Considerations of used and New with research of brand and function
Sizing fish up (Don't buy what doesn't fit)
ATO why doesn't everyone have one?
RODI-Look at comment above
Consider the drilled tank before dealing with a problem
ICK treatments, and Ph Buffers, and just plan wrong use of chemicals

Small list with lots of potential I have so many points on each thing still a working progress.

Just2Many
04/15/2015, 03:39 PM
Update I'm adding equipment to the conversation as well as Quarantine prep and Coral Dip as things not to overlook