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View Full Version : LED, T5 or a Cistom Hybrid??


fredro
04/27/2015, 08:45 PM
So I have a pair of EcoTech Radion Pros with wide angle lenses, over my Deep Blue 80g Mixed Reef. I love them. I also have 3 MP10w powerheads in the tank and am a huge supporter of EcoTech Marine in general. My ONLY issue with my lighting is some shadows. I have always been enticed by the ATI Dimmable SunPower fixtures. A lot of the beautifully colored SPS dominant tanks (which is what I am transitioning to) are lit by T5s and I figured I might consider switching to T5... Then I saw this...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=788413517877561&id=592019744183607&ref=content_filter

The idea of an ATI (basically) fixture that I could drop my Radions into seemed like the PERFECT option! Well, the more research I did, it seems like that article is about as far as this product made it (unless someone can tell me otherwise). No reply from Triton when I emailed and no sign of it anywhere else.

Then today I came across a used ATI Dimmable SunPower 8x54w 48" fixture, for a great price. I bought it.

Now my question.
Do I:

-Stuck with the Radions and deal with thee shadows.
-Swap out the Radions for the ATI T5 fixture.
-Get fancy and remove the middle 4 bulbs of the SunPower and channel the center panel out to hold the Radions and basically replicate the custom fixture and have a 4 bulb T5 w/ 2 Radion Pros.

Suggestions, comments, criticism and personal experiences are gratefully appreciated!

fredro
04/27/2015, 08:51 PM
Double post.

Raven_aus
04/27/2015, 08:58 PM
I am a fan of the hybrid setups. The t5 and led compliment each other. T5's give that nice spread and spectrum while leds you dont need to replace bulbs, run cooler and better par penetration.

fessoclown
04/27/2015, 09:03 PM
I was in the exact same boat as you. I just bought a 60 inch ATI to gut the middle and install my 3 Radions. There are a few guys on here that have done that... I am on my phone now so I can't point you to the threads.
Anyway..
I put the ATI up and was blown away by the colour so I sold 2 of my Radions which covered the cost of the ATI plus new bulbs and I get to keep a Radions. I almost have enough left for a DIY actinic strip like a Reefbrught to bring back some LED pop.

I'll link you to the threads later or do a search. What you are describing can And has been done but for me I was completeltly sold on the T5 colour with the all the bulbs running, mind you mine is only a 6bulb fixture on a 20 inch front to back tank.
JM2C

cubsFAN
04/27/2015, 10:05 PM
Send the ati to Dave at nanobox and sell the radions. From what I've seen and read he does a great job. I plan to send my ati to him when I set up my new tank down the road.

david76
04/28/2015, 07:34 AM
I did it a year ago with a radion g2 pro and a 8x39w t5 fixture (Blau). I removed the 4 central t5 and setup the radion. The aquarium is 90 gal (36x28x22). 2 pics:
316121
316122

fessoclown
04/28/2015, 10:41 AM
Here is the thread where the guy shows his Radions inside a TEK fixture.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2489259
The real question is do you want LED with T5 supplementation or T5 with LED supplementation?

I have decided I really like having the colour combo of at least 6 T5 bulbs and I will add a ReefBright or make a similar DIY actinic bar for LED supplementation for POP and a wee bit of shimmer.

fredro
04/28/2015, 03:25 PM
Thanks! I really like the idea of sticking the Radions inside of the ATI Fixture, so they aren't visible without looking under. My other issue is how to mount the fixture. I can't hang it and think I'll try and modify some legs to work. On the other hand, the fixture is dimmable and I wonder if i shouldn't just use it as is and find another use for the Radions.

Reefkid88
04/28/2015, 08:18 PM
I would retro them. Best of both worlds. If it were me,I'd do it myself,either cutting the top of the fixture to fit the Radion's in there and not sacrifice the controllability of the leds and save yourself $500-$700 for Dave to retro your light,not that he doesn't do AMAZING work. And run either 2 C+ or 2 ABS.

fredro
04/29/2015, 03:03 PM
I will DEFINITELY be doing the work myself. I plan on taking the fixture totally apart and cutting out the middle support if the fixture and making a recessed lip for the Radions to lay in, so the tip of the ATI fixture remains solid, the fans stay functional on BOTH the Radions and the ATI unit. I will make another 2 vertical channel strips with a lip down the center, allowing the splash shield to remain sturdy and functional over the T5 bulbs, but not covering the Radions, cutting down heat and maximizing the output of the Radions. My one dillema, besides not wanting to chop this beauty up, is deciding to take out 3 or 4 of the T5s. I have measured and only need to remove 3 to gain the room needed to drop in the LEDs.

fredro
04/29/2015, 03:18 PM
I'm half tempted to mount the SunPower over the tank, without the Radions in it and see how I like it. At only 16" deep, the Dimmable feature will really come in handy and allow for maximum color combination without worrying about too much light.

I need to find a way to tank mount the fixture though. Seeing I can't hang it from the ceiling and there's no wall behind the tank...

Scythanith
04/29/2015, 07:55 PM
I have a hybrid of 3 Mitras 6100HV and 4 x 48" T5's on an IceCap ballast with individual reflectors. Seems to be a nice blend between controllability, colour and coverage.

fredro
05/01/2015, 07:55 PM
So many T5 people are urging me to just leave it and mount the SunPower on the tank as is and sell the Radions. I'm a diehard EcoTech fanboy though and I'll be hard pressed to let them go.

Big E
05/02/2015, 04:47 AM
So many T5 people are urging me to just leave it and mount the SunPower on the tank as is and sell the Radions. I'm a diehard EcoTech fanboy though and I'll be hard pressed to let them go.

If you're going to mainly Sps why ignore the good advice you're getting??

Sell the radions......you can always DIY some LEDs into the unit at a later date.

You won't get the Sps color or the consistency of par and spectrum you'll get with the Sunpower alone.

The only thing that you won't have is the shimmer lines..........again this can be done by adding leds at a later date.

bdevillier
05/02/2015, 10:01 AM
i run a custom built led/t5 fixture that was made in part by dave at nano box. the light is amazing. i'd say ditch the radions and the buy the new v3 led clusters from dave and do the retro your self. the clusters are $60 each. not only will you get better color blending with the nano box pucks but you will also have much better color and leds. ecotech still hasnt figured out that cool white leds do nothing and that green, red, and orange(or amber or yellow or what ever other gimmick they can think of) are not needed if they used a quality neutral or warm white with a 90cri rating. the only thing the radion gives you is gimmick. oh and i recommend not dimming your t5's. it just shortens bulb life dramatically.

fredro
05/05/2015, 09:24 PM
Interesting advise. I'll check out the nano box page

fredro
05/05/2015, 09:28 PM
316928
Gonna run this thing for a few weeks as is and see how the tank responds.
B+
C+
B+
AB
TrueActinic
B+
C+
B+

I think I am going to swap a C+ out for a P+. Lots of people comment that it sounds too blue, but that really doesn't seem to be the case at all when I look at it.

fredro
07/03/2015, 12:41 AM
Wound up putting the Radions back on the tank and adding a third for spread/cut down on shadowing. Now I have a good excuse to start another tank for the ATI light. Such a sexy fixture!http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/02/e085dc05f10c3173b062db673dda93ba.jpg

kenpau
07/03/2015, 06:10 AM
Thats a great looking tank, if you've grown that out from LEDs then why change? I think part of the problem you have with your question is that people who have success with MH will say its the best, people who have success with T5 say it's the best and people who have success with LEDs say they're the best. LED/T5 hybrids are relatively new and there aren't a massive amount of people that use them. I've just changed from Hydra52s to the new Giesemann Aurora Hybrid. The way I see it LEDs have advantages and T5 has advantages.....imagine a fixture that had the best of both worlds, the control of LEDs and the light spread of T5s.
You still have the option to add T5s if you wanted to, although it might mess up the clean modern look of your tank, there are some DIY hybrids on here which have grown some amazing reefs but the lighting itself looks terrible above the tank.

fredro
07/03/2015, 09:49 PM
Thanks!! The tank is 8 months old and has been grown out from small frags under radions. I honestly think the t5 was nice, but for this tank, if any t5 is added, I think it'll be just 2 36" or 48" retro bulb kits. One in front, one in back, for 3 hrs during peak. I've seen a pic of a tank that had a bent aluminum bracket to hold 2 supplements which I really liked. I'm still looking to start another tank from scratch w the dimmable ATI unit.

DavidinGA
07/04/2015, 07:20 PM
Running about 300 or so led diodes and four 80w t5 tubes over my 210gal with excellent results.

One reef breeder photon 32 in the middle and a eBay led box on either side.

2 LET retro kits (ati ballasts and reflectors). 2 blue plus and 2 coral plus bulbs.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/04/59b4ddb90c4aae1e9cba000757d40f20.jpg

fredro
07/06/2015, 10:34 AM
Running about 300 or so led diodes and four 80w t5 tubes over my 210gal with excellent results.

One reef breeder photon 32 in the middle and a eBay led box on either side.

2 LET retro kits (ati ballasts and reflectors). 2 blue plus and 2 coral plus bulbs.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/04/59b4ddb90c4aae1e9cba000757d40f20.jpg
That's a sweet looking fixture u got there!!! How do you like the eBay black boxes compared to thr Photon?

DavidinGA
07/06/2015, 04:15 PM
The reef breeders led has a more purple look that I think I prefer over the more neutral white and blue look of the eBay boxes. I don't know enough about led diodes to know which diodes the reef breeders have that gives it the purple look but I like it.

kc350twin
07/07/2015, 07:13 AM
I think your on the right track with adding T5's. I always felt like something was missing with LED only. The problem with adding them without a canopy is you usually end up with a Frankenstein set up that is not that appealing to most. Pestige-led has a Hybrid economical eBay type box unit if that interests you. There is also a used 36" ATI hybrid on the FS forums that will do that tank as well.

http://www.prestige-led.com

Wazzel
07/07/2015, 07:39 AM
LEDs do not cover as well as the manufactures recommend. From my experience and others they cover more like 12-18 not 24 in the short axis. Depending on your scape you are going to need 1.5-2x manufacturers recommendation. If/when I upgrade I am going to stick with LED, my experience with this tank will help me lay out the next one so I can go with the 1.5 units per manufacturers 1 recommended.

Not sure your tank dims, I think 48" long? If so, if it were me, I would use 3 units.

jasonandsarah
07/07/2015, 08:47 AM
Not the best looking fixture in the world but it's working great and I love the combo of led and t5. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/07/05f8c702c0bb9793571dee679b36de04.jpg

DavidinGA
07/07/2015, 01:07 PM
I think your on the right track with adding T5's. I always felt like something was missing with LED only. The problem with adding them without a canopy is you usually end up with a Frankenstein set up that is not that appealing to most. Pestige-led has a Hybrid economical eBay type box unit if that interests you. There is also a used 36" ATI hybrid on the FS forums that will do that tank as well.

http://www.prestige-led.com
Man what are you talking about?!? My setup is just spectacularly beautiful!!! No ugly Frankenstein setup here Lol

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/07/8ebb9e1f87fd657cc3f53a9a47f6f630.jpg

DaveRaz
07/13/2015, 08:04 AM
To those of you running hybrid: I am using T5 ATI ramping up to 100% for 8 hours. Also the kessil 360we ramping up 8 hours to 80 intensity and 30 color.

I fear it's too high intensity on the kessils. Just bumped it up yesterday. What photoperiod are you running led at along with your T5?

DavidinGA
07/13/2015, 08:09 AM
I quit the ramping fad a year or so ago. I see better results with a fixed power level all day long.

I run my leds from 11am to 12pm @ 50/65% and then 4 T5's are on for 5 hours.

DaveRaz
07/13/2015, 08:14 AM
Thanks. I may give that a shot. I do like the look of the ramping up and down to mimic sunrise sunset though.

kenpau
07/13/2015, 10:02 AM
I quit the ramping fad a year or so ago. I see better results with a fixed power level all day long.

I run my leds from 11am to 12pm @ 50/65% and then 4 T5's are on for 5 hours.

I fail to see how ramping up and down can have a negative effect on your corals? It is purely for aesthetic pleasure and makes absolutely no difference to your corals health at all provided you still allow the adequate number of hours effective lighting for coral growth/colour.

DaveRaz
07/13/2015, 10:10 AM
I fail to see how ramping up and down can have a negative effect on your corals? It is purely for aesthetic pleasure and makes absolutely no difference to your corals health at all provided you still allow the adequate number of hours effective lighting for coral growth/colour.

Will running the led at 80% or full intensity along with T5 hurt my livestock? One might say it will help as it's more light but I stopped making assumptions in this hobby.

kenpau
07/13/2015, 10:20 AM
Will running the led at 80% or full intensity along with T5 hurt my livestock? One might say it will help as it's more light but I stopped making assumptions in this hobby.

I'd be very careful. I slowly worked my way up to 95% so I didn't bleach my corals but then noticed they were starting to go pale. So I dialled them back to 65% and am getting much better colours now. I'd start low at say 60% and work your way up slowly over a couple of months and see how your corals react.

Wazzel
07/13/2015, 10:30 AM
I fail to see how ramping up and down can have a negative effect on your corals? It is purely for aesthetic pleasure and makes absolutely no difference to your corals health at all provided you still allow the adequate number of hours effective lighting for coral growth/colour.

It can if you do not have enough time at adequate light levels or you try to get cute and do all kind of odd things during the day. Keep it simple and it will work just fine.

kenpau
07/13/2015, 10:43 AM
It can if you do not have enough time at adequate light levels or you try to get cute and do all kind of odd things during the day. Keep it simple and it will work just fine.

You're absolutely right. You can have a four hour sunrise and sunset if you like but you have to maintain a sufficient amount of light at a 'useable' level for your corals. I put a quantum meter on my tank and at my sunset percentage of between 35% and 10% the PAR was well under 100, not really a useable level for SPS and pretty much only aesthetic, although not doing any harm to the corals at all.

DavidinGA
07/13/2015, 11:18 AM
I fail to see how ramping up and down can have a negative effect on your corals? It is purely for aesthetic pleasure and makes absolutely no difference to your corals health at all provided you still allow the adequate number of hours effective lighting for coral growth/colour.
It's just my personal experience that has shown that a set power level is better. Mh users never had ramping and look at sps under those.

All the ramping up and down is not necessary and imo often does more harm than good (especially people who are constantly changing up those settings).

Ramping isn't a make or break deal but I've found better results staying away from it...

kenpau
07/13/2015, 04:54 PM
It's just my personal experience that has shown that a set power level is better. Mh users never had ramping and look at sps under those.

All the ramping up and down is not necessary and imo often does more harm than good (especially people who are constantly changing up those settings).

Ramping isn't a make or break deal but I've found better results staying away from it...

Of course MH users have good results but that is nothing to do with not using a ramping feature.
Providing you still allow enough usable light time for your coral can you explain how ramping is doing harm? It doesn't do anything good really, it's just for our viewing pleasure, but I'd like to know how I'm harming my corals by having sunrise/sunsets.

Wazzel
07/13/2015, 05:23 PM
It's just my personal experience that has shown that a set power level is better. Mh users never had ramping and look at sps under those.

All the ramping up and down is not necessary and imo often does more harm than good (especially people who are constantly changing up those settings).

Ramping isn't a make or break deal but I've found better results staying away from it...

I would not say one is better than the other. I think the problem is lots who ramp ramp to long and/or run to low on power. My tank is doing just fine with ramping. I doubt it makes much difference to the corals one way or the other.