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maxxII
04/29/2015, 02:50 AM
This is a lengthy post. For those of you with ADD who will get distracted by squirrels and small shiny objects here ya go:

ARID E 18 pulled phosphates in my system from 0.08 ppm down to 0.00 in 11 days. No water changes, no phosban, no change in anything other than adding the ARID E 18.

Want more details?
Keep reading.

I’ve had phosphate issues with my tank for as long as I could remember.
It’s been so long that I honestly assumed that it was just something that SPS keepers just had to find a way to handle.

But I was never really able to get my phosphates under control.

When I say phosphate issues, I mean like doing 50 gallon water changes a week on a 250 gallon system while running GFO (half full normal sized/smaller Phosban Reactor) and changing out the GFO once a month was able to keep it down to 0.05 ppm.

I didn’t feed Nori because of the phosphate it added to the system. I didn’t feed any dried or prepared foods because of the phosphate preservatives they contained.

I soaked all frozen foods in RODi water for 30 minutes to thaw it and pull phosphate preservatives/binders from it, strained it through a brine shrimp net, and then dumped the water down the drain. The strained food was then squeezed out while it was in the brine shrimp net to remove all available water from it. The food was then fed to the tank.

My tank is and always has been bare bottom so that I could keep a handle on detritus build up.

I’d been running a bio pellet reactor for the past 3 years…didn’t do anything. Seriously.
The pellets tumbled, I saw no change in my system. I’ve still got the original pellets sitting in the reactor from when I first set it up 3 years ago.

I would try and run a refugium and had no luck…..I either didn’t get enough flow through it or I wasn’t able to keep the chaeto rolling so that it didn’t brown out on the bottom. I tried using Caulerpa racemosa and never really got good results either. I was also always concerned about it going asexual.

I tried lanthanum chloride with minimal results…sure phosphate was temporarily lowered, but washing filter socks every two days and scraping the annoying white film off the glass from the LC got to be ridiculous.

After eliminating every other variable in my system, I was able to pretty much able to narrow down the source of phosphates to my rock. I had purchased Pukani rock as live rock waaaaay back in 1993 when it was the hot new thing.

Between the constant high phosphate levels and a heater failure which killed off all SPS and bleached out my anemones, (two H.magnifica anemones I‘ve had since Mar 06 and Nov 2010 respectively), I was very close to calling it quits in the hobby.

I figured I’d give it one more shot and see if I could change things around and make this hobby fun for me again.

To that end, I decided to downsize and reboot.

My system was approximately 250 gallons consisting of a 120 gallon display, a 58 gallon display, a 40 breeder frag tank, all plumbed into a 75 gallon tank used as a common/shared sump containing about 50 gallons.

I drained and cleaned out the 120, leaving the 58 and the 40 breeder plumbed into the sump. All remaining livestock was moved over to those two tanks, (anemone’s, clowns, and some ridiculously hardy LPS and a Derasa clam), while I got things going again.

Old Pukani rock was removed from the system, and new base rock was procured from BRS and Marco Rocks.

But what to do to ensure I had no additional problems with phosphate?

I stumbled on JBNY’s post about his rebuild where he mentioned an ARID C30 reactor from Pax-Bellum. JBNY seemed very happy with his C30 and stated it was working on his 270 gallon tank. I’m not a person to geek out about fellow reefers, but JBNY is someone who I very much respect and has been around for awhile. I’ve followed his build from the get go, and remember when he had his old set up as well. Most importantly, I’ve seen that JBNY isn’t one to endorse something unless he feels it works for him and he’s also not afraid to state if he doesn’t like something. For you newbies to the reef keeping world, JBNY is the one who went waaaaaaaay out of his way to test various metal halide bulb and ballast combinations to determine PAR ratings and how each bulb ballast combination worked out together and most importantly, he documented and photographed his whole process. This was something that helped A LOT of people out when choosing bulb/ballast combinations and how they looked.

http://cnidarianreef.com/G180/

So JBNY stating he was happy with this C30 and that he thought it was worth while was something of interest to me.

I did some digging and found very little about the ARID reactors, or Pax-Bellum outside of Manhattan Reefs.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/pax-bellum-llc/

The concept is nutrient export via algae. It’s not an algae scrubber, but it’s somewhat similar. Basically you use macro algae to out compete nuisance algae in your system, stripping the water of phosphate and nitrates. This is not designed as a refugium per se with regard to being a pod farm….this is simply for nutrient export.

ARID stands for Algae Remediation Illuminated Device. E is for enhanced and 18 refers to the size of the reactor.

To dumb it down, it’s a lighted tube that you run water through and grow algae in. Once every week or two, you remove some of the algae and either throw it in the trash or give it to someone else. This is how you export the nutrients. Simple right?

It’s lit by LED’s which run though a central tube down the middle of the reactor. There are two chambers in the reactor, separated by acrylic strainers which allow water to flow through from the bottom up to the top, and back into your tank.

Seemed cool enough, but how about the longevity of this ARID thingy?

Turns out they’ve had one running continuously since 2007. They have video’s to prove it.


Does it get hot or heat up my tank?
No. The heat sinks for the LED’s are outside of the reactor and don’t come in contact with water at all. In fact, the lights themselves don’t come in contact with the water at all. They fit inside a hollow central “spindle” that the algae is wrapped around for growth.

Does it use a lot of electricity?
According to Tristan from Pax-Bellum using an E18 with a Maxi-Jet 900 pulls about 36 watts…thirty six watts. A LOT less than I would be using running a normal refugium or an algae scrubber.

Can you only grow chaeto in it?
No, you can grow other algae in it as well. Chaeto just grows fastest which is nice for nutrient export since that’s the whole purpose of the ARID reactor.

Using it on a reverse lighting cycle will also stabilize your tank’s pH. It is recommended that it not run for more than 18 hours, in order to get maximum algae growth.


I contacted Tristan via email and phone and spoke with him several times regarding the ARID.

Tristan heard me out and wanted to know if I planned on running a skimmer or going skimmer less. According to Tristan, if using a properly sized ARID reactor, a skimmer was not necessary. I’ve been in the hobby for along time and I’ve seen many fads come and go. I’m too entrenched (or brain washed if you prefer), in having a nice big skimmer for my system, (Super Octopus 5000 internal) to give it up all willy nilly.

Tristan laughed and heard me out. Based on our conversations, he recommended I get an E18 for my set up. Had I chosen to go skimmer less, Tristan suggested going with an E24 instead.

I went with the E18.

Two weeks later, it arrived in the mail.
A week after that, I was able to obtain some chaeto for it.

I set the ARID E18 reactor up on April 17th 2015. I took the GFO reactor off line as well.
The reactor is being fed by a Maxi-Jet 900 from my sump.

I took water to the LFS to get tested using their Hanna HI93713 low phosphate meter.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/Hanna_P_meter.jpg

No3 was too low to measure using their Salifert kit.
Po4 was measured at 0.08 ppm.

First week of the ARID running, I wasn’t sure I saw any algae growth. Chaeto didn’t look like it was doing anything.

I asked JBNY how long it took his C30 to start doing anything. He stated it took about a week. Oddly enough, the next day, I saw some growth in the Chaeto.

On 04-23-2015 chaeto growth was observed in the reactor. ARID reactor had been running for 5 days at that point.

On 04-24-2015, I took another water sample to the LFS for testing using the same Hanna HI93713 meter.

No3 was again too low to measure
Po4 was measured at 0.03 ppm.

5 days of running the ARID E 18 and I now had phosphate levels I struggled to reach using massive regular water changes and GFO.

Chaeto growth was very visible as it was filling in the reactor. The nice thing about the LED’s being in the center of the reactor is that it’s basically backlit so you can clearly see algae growth.

Today, (04-28-2015) I took another water sample to the LFS for testing.

No3 once again too low to measure.
Po4 was measured at 0.00

Yes, zero point zero zero.

11 days of running the ARID E18 and my Po4 levels were undetectable?????

I also brought chaeto to the LFS so they could sell it…got $10 store credit for it.

Low phosphates, better looking more stable aquarium, and store credit to boot!

Algae growth in the 58 and 40 breeder is minimal at best. I havent scraped the glass in over a week. Ordinarily that would mean I had a fairly heavy film of algae on the glass.

Not now.

Tristan states that the ARID reactors are so good at pulling phosphates and nitrates from your reef that you actually need to dose nitrates to maintain a healthy reef. They include a 6 month supply of iron supplements and nitrates to dose with the reactor.

I havent dosed anything yet, because I honestly didn’t think it would work this rapidly.
That changes tomorrow.

Bottom line, I’ve had the ARID E18 reactor from Pax-Bellum up and running for 11 days, and it’s worked amazingly. Better than I actually could have hoped in all honesty.

I don’t work for Pax-Bellum and couldn’t pick Tristan out of a lineup if my life depended on it.

But this thing works and has made a huge impression on me. Other reefer’s may not need the ARID Reactor, or may find other ways to accomplish the same thing. I can tell you that I’m very impressed with the ARID reactors. It does everything I wanted it to do and it does it in a rather compact package (compared to a refugium).

Here are some pictures of the ARID E18:

Body of the reactor. It’s actually clear acrylic that has been wrapped with a flexible soft Styrofoam cover to keep light from seeping out. It still seeps out, but it dims it significantly. It also protects the reactor body from dings, scratches etc…

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_1.jpg

Innards of the reactor…pretty much a spindle with two “screens” separating the algae chambers.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_2.jpg

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_3.jpg

LED light assembly ….These go inside the “spindle”. You can see the heat sinks on top of the assembly. The heat sinks get hot to the touch. According to Pax-Bellum, these produce about 181 PAR on the E18. The LED’s are wrapped around the pole so there is 360 degree lighting.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_4.jpg

Once every week or two, Tristan recommends shutting down the reactor, removing about 1/3 or so of the chaeto and disposing of it, and restarting the reactor. Since my chaeto had more than doubled in 11 days, I decided to go ahead and remove some. Here are pictures of the chaeto “chambers” being loaded:

Bottom chamber

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_5.jpg

Top chamber

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_6.jpg


Top reinstalled and thumbscrews tightened down…reactor is almost ready to go:

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_7.jpg

Inserting light assembly into the reactor:

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/data/500/ARID_8.jpg

I ordered the quick disconnects with my reactor. They make disassembly and reassembly of the reactor much easier.

The only other option is a calcium reactor input so that you can feed your reactor effluent directly into the ARID reactor. JBNY’s C30 has this option and according to Tristan, it does cause back pressure so that a larger more powerful feed pump is needed if you order the calcium reactor input for the ARID reactor. I decided to go without it.

I’m only running Kalk right now, so I don’t really need it, but when I get my calcium reactor running again, I’ll see if that has an effect.

This is a fairly new piece of equipment and according to Tristan, mine is the first one in Missouri.

I’m not normally a fan of being an early adopter of something, I dislike being a beta tester for products I have to pay for. If it’s free, I’ll happily test some piece of equipment out…
But I paid for this, (not a free sample or a prize that I won) and as I stated earlier, Pax-Bellum has a proto-type of this reactor which has been running since 2007.….so the kinks are pretty much worked out of this thing. From what I’ve seen, this was pretty simple to get running and working.

Unpack. Install algae. Plug in tubing and feed pump. Set light timer. Let it do its thing.

Once a week or two, unplug, disassemble, remove algae and dispose of 1/3 - ˝ of it. Reassemble, plug back in. Repeat as necessary.

Assuming this gets any replies or I get the impression that anyone besides me is reading this I’ll continue to post updates to this thread.

Member No. 1
04/29/2015, 04:00 AM
They had a booth set up a couple of weeks ago at a local Reef Club Frag Swap in Rhode Island. I talked to them quick a bit. I am interested to see your continued results. I run BB with no other reactors, GFO, etc... except for Kalk & Calcium. Phosphate isn't an issue, but nitrates are a little higher than I like. I'm not looking for zero readings across the board, just lower.
Thanks for the write up and any continued info or feed back.

Pife
04/29/2015, 04:45 AM
That's great man. How have your coral responded?

maxxII
04/29/2015, 05:35 AM
So far, I'm seeing increased polyp extension in everything except my blastomussa. That one looks unhappy.
SPS appear better, but to be fair, I've only has the reactor running for 11 days.

Time will tell how this works for me long term...but I'm happy with the results so far!

2_zoa
04/29/2015, 06:55 AM
Thanks for sharing. It's nice to hear you found something that works for your setup. As well as the power of algae for the good of a tank.

Stay dry.

reefwiser
04/29/2015, 08:02 AM
Nice simple design

JB NY
04/29/2015, 08:23 AM
So I will mirror maxxII's experience. I have been running an C30 ARID since December 30, before that I had been carbon dosing using vodka and using GFO and GAC for a good 10 years. My tank was being restarted from a tank crash and I had been having problem with SPS for a good 6 months or so. After speaking to many people I decided to ditch the carbon dosing and GFO, so I needed another solution. On my older tank I had good luck with using macro algae to control N and P, but it was a pain to maintain. The ARID looked to be the same basic concept of using macro algae for nutrient export but easier than what I had been doing years ago, I went with the ARID.

My tank is 270 Gallons with another 130 gallons of sumps and frag tanks hooked in. As a wrote earlier my tank is being restarted so I am doing a lot of maintenance as well as keeping records when I am measuring various parameters.

I am not someone who is slack on maintenance and have a pretty good handle on controlling nitrates and phosphate with the current means available, water changes, carbon dosing, and using GFO and GAC. My N and P numbers are not crazy high, but I have always worked to make sure they are kept in check.

So about 1 week before I received my ARID I took both my vodka doser and my GFO off line. I received the ARID the next week, plumbed it into my tank. I have my main pump running through a manifold so I was just able to tee off of that into the ARID, so I did not have to add a pump.

My readings for the tank on the day it was installed.

Dec 30th
NO3 7ppm Salifert test
PO4 0.02 Hanna HI 93713

Jan 11th
N 2.5
P 0.02

Chaeto is starting to slow down growing.

Jan 27th
N 2
P 0.01

I start dosing Nirates, to keep chaeto growing.

Feb 9
N 1
P 0.02

Feb 16
N .5
P 0.01

Feb 22
N .5
P 0.00

At this point I am able to keep P at zero or let it clime by controlling how much nitrates I dose into the tank. I have decided that I am going to make sure I have both some nitrates and some phosphates in the tank. I have been playing with dosing amounts to try and get the N to about 5ppm but keep P under 0.05. I have also reduced my photo period for the ARID Reactor to 11 hours from 18. My current test results are as follows.

N 2.5
P 0.01

Right now I am very happy with my ARID, my only gripe is that it is a pain to clean, but chaeto has always been a bit messy when changing it out even when I had it in a refugium.

Here is my unit in the fish room.
http://cnidarianreef.com/vue/content/tank270/DSCN_2015342511.jpg

Here is it on day one with jus a little chaeto in the chamber.
http://cnidarianreef.com/vue/content/tank270/DSCN_2015342502.jpeg

kabe87
04/29/2015, 09:17 AM
Do you guys still use skimmer? How much does one of these cost?

maxxII
04/29/2015, 07:18 PM
I still use a skimmer for my tank. I'm too brainwashed into having one to be able to give it up entirely.

I bought my ARID E18 when it was on sale and ordered the quick disconnect valves for mine. Mine was about $550 plus shipping.

I know that sounds like alot, but when you factor buying a new tank/stand alone refugium, drilling it out if it didnt come pre-drilled, buying or building a stand, plumbing, feed pump for the refugium, and lighting for the refugium...you really arent that far from what I spent.

You could definately do things yourself and save money, but you'd be spending your time in labor, and you can get a cheap light for the refugium, but you'll have higher electrical costs and bulb replacement costs as well.

This also takes up less room than a stand alone refugium.

I'm not advocating this as a be all/end all solution for phosphate & nitrate control.
For me, this was worth the "risk" since I knew the science behind it ,(it's a lighted tube refugium), and I was seriously considering get out of the hobby all together due to repeated issues.

Everything else I tried didnt work for me. So far, this is.

BTW, I noticed a typo in my initial post... I bought the Pukani rock in 2003 not 1993. So it was old, but not that old.

maxxII
05/02/2015, 11:13 AM
Had water tested again yesterday:

Nitrates are still undetectable.
Po4 has risen to 0.02 ppm via Hanna HI93713 (same one used before).

I'm assuming that the increase in Po4 is due to me removing the chaeto. Instructions state not to remove more than 1/3 of the chaeto, but I pulled out at least 2/3 of what I had.

I have added iron supplements, (Included with the reactor) but have not dosed No3 supplements, (also included with the reactor).

Corals still look healthier. So do my anemones. I have 3 H.magnifica anemones, and have had one for 9 years, one for 4.5 years, and one for a single year.

Further updates as warranted.

Jrsdaddy
05/03/2015, 08:12 PM
Tagging along. Thinking of getting the nano version for 45g

maxxII
05/04/2015, 01:28 AM
PH in the tank is lower than it was last week.
Tank is in the basement, and it's warming up outside, so AC is being run more.

Is the pH depressed because I took out too much cheato, or because we're using the air conditioning more?

rickyb
05/04/2015, 05:30 AM
Possibly due to you closing the windows to run the AC. I would check the water parameters to make sure all OK.

JB NY
05/04/2015, 08:51 AM
maxxII, with the ARID, when your N is undetectable and your P starts to rise, if you start dosing N you will see the P start to go back down to zero. Basically at this point you are N limited when there is not enough N the bacteria can not consume the P. Adding the NO3 allow the bacteria to continue to consume P which will drive the Phosphate levels down.

maxxII
05/04/2015, 12:51 PM
Thanks Joe. I've been dosing the iron manganese supplement but not the nitrates...I'll start dosing the nitrates today. I'm seeing cyano in some spots ,(I know...I'm a mess), and I think that could be one reason No3 isnt detectable.

maxxII
05/09/2015, 09:23 PM
I bought a Hanna HI96713 photometer.
I'd gotten a couple of erratic results from the LFS I'd been taking water samples to (they have the Hanna HI93713 shown in the original post). I think the LFS employees would get distracted and either record the wrong information or read things incorrectly. I've also replaced all of my salifert kits with new ones. I've noticed the kits begin to lose accuracy after a year, so I replace them every year.


I also sent Tristan this email:


"Tristan,
I dont recall if I mentioned this or not when we spoke, but my system had multiple issues some of which only got worse after I neglected the system for abit after my heater crapped out....shocking that things get worse when you neglect them, I know...


So here is where the questions for you come in....

Using new salifert test kits, and a new and newly calibrated Hanna HI96713 photometer, my parameters are:

DKH - 11.5
Ca - 460
Mg -1500
NO3 -0.00
PO4 - 0.00

Bryopsis appeared and has a foothold. I raised Mag up to take care of it, and have noticed the tips have frosted indicating it's working. I've done this in the past, (raised Mg up to 1700 and kept it there for 3 months to eradicate bryopsis with no ill effects to fish, clams, SPS, or anemones), but I didnt have the ARID E18 then either.

I've been told elevated Mg inhibits photosynthesis in bryopsis, but doesnt affect other marine algea, to inlcude Cheatomorpha. Do you see elevated Mg causing an issue with the Cheatomorpha, or is this a non issue? I'm still seeing growth in the Cheato in the reactor and PO4 has dropped from 0.02 to 0.00, but I'd still feel better bouncing it off of you.

NO3 is showing as 0.00 but I still have green cyano in the system, so I know there is NO3 available, and it's being taken in by the cyano. Will the Cheato out compete it for NO3? I'm leery of dosing NO3 when I have cyano in the system for fear of feeding it instead of the Cheato. Do you recommend:

Let the Cheato outcompete the cyano and dose the NO3 supplements as instructed.

or

Use Chemi-Clean and take care of the cyano, then begin dosing the NO3 supplements.


Overall, I'm very happy with the reactor. PO4 is still much better than before and corals are looking better already. The threads on Reef Central and on Manhattan Reefs are the biggest and most active so far, and there are alot of people who seem genuinely interested in your ARID reactors. Locally, I've brought this up to the LFS where I usually go, and directly sent a link to the RC thread for the manager and owner....with any luck, they may become customers or a dealer for you as this store does alot of maintenance and set up work for businesses and individuals with aquariums.

Finally, over on Manhattan Reefs, one poster stated Joe Yaiullo was in the process of setting up eight ARID C30's for the Atlantis Marine World 20K gallon tank...is this true? I'm hoping it is because that would give you guys more exposure and "legitimacy" in the eyes of folks who havent yet heard of you guys and the ARID reactor. People say all kinds of things on the Net and I'd prefer to have confirmation before parroting that information about elsewhere.

I apologize for pestering you with these questions, but this is a new situation for me and I'm loathe to do anything that will be counter productive to what progress I've already made.

Thanks for your time,

MaxxII"

Here is his response:

"Hi Nick,

Stop resisting the Nitrate supplement :D

The cyano doesn't require nitrate in the water column to grow, it produces it's own nitrate and thrives when nitrate is not present in the water column. This is cyano bacteria's evolutionary advantage, being able to fix nitrogen into nitrate it can survive where other photosynthetic organisms can't. Dose the nitrate keep the ratio between 20:1 - 200:1 (target 100:1)

Same with the bryopsis. This is turf algae that uses its holdfast to extract nutrients from the rock (substrate) Elevated Mg does kill off Bryopsis, at 1500ppm your Chaeto should be fine. I've only noticed it stunting the growth around and beyond 1600ppm.

Your other parameters look great. One other kit I recommend is saliferts boron test kit. Macro algae consumes a lot of boron and most salt mixes are deficient. Luckily there is a cheap source at your local grocery store "Borax" laundry booster. 1 teaspoon raises 100 gallons about 1ppm. NSW is 4.4ppm. Brittle and crumbling chaeto is a sign that your tank is boron deficient. Toxicity in a small number of organisms starts to occur around 20ppm.

Yes, Joe Yaiullo bought the C308 system that is in our MR forum. He is setting it up on his 20k gallon reef as soon as he builds a platform above the reef for it. I may go out there and help him set it up. He's my old boss, I use to culture coral for that tank.

Glad the E18 is working out for you. Now you'll have to feed your tank more.

Regards,

Tristan"

maxxII
05/13/2015, 08:16 PM
I've bedn dosing the NO3 supplements for a few days now.

I have about 135/140 gallons total in the system right now.

Started dosing 2mls of the included NO3 supplement.
No change in NO3 readings, still undetectable via salifert.
Next day dosed 4mls.
No change in NO3 readings, still undetectable.
Last night I dosed 8mls of NO3.
14.5 hours later I tested and finally got some detectable results.

NO3 showed less than 0.2...it appeared to be about half as much so I ballparked it at about 0.1.
At this point, I goofed. I'm still working midnights and had not had coffee yet, so my brain wasnt fully engaged.

I should have tested for PO4 at this point.
Instead, I dosed an additional 8mls of NO3, and added Nori to the tank,(which I know from experiance does have PO4 in it).
Then it dawned on me that I should have tested PO4...

I went ahead and tested PO4. Elapsed time between dosing NO3 and adding Nori to the tank and fosing NO3 was approximately 5 minutes.

PO4 measured at 0.00978 ppm.
So basically at 0.01 ppm. With NO3 being at 0.1 ppm and PO4 being at 0.01 ppm, I'm at the 100:1 ratio that Tristan reccomends for the ARID reactor.

My ARID Reactor has been running for almost a month now, and I'm still happy with it and its doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

I've also got some additional KNO3 powder coming so I can start making my own NO3 supplement. Using 8mls a day means I have about 13 days left in the included bottle of supplements.

As always, further updates as warranted.

moondoggy4
05/13/2015, 11:27 PM
Thanks for the in depth review. Very intriguing.

2_zoa
05/14/2015, 02:10 PM
I'm thinking the 100:1 should be more like NO3-1ppm and PO4-.01ppm. No?

How's the cyano? Did it get any better or worse?

maxxII
05/15/2015, 04:01 AM
JBNY will probably correct me if I'm wrong, but he stated in his build thread on page 42 that he was keeping his tank with NO3 at 2.5 ppm and PO4 at 0.01 ppm.

I'm still trying to find the right balance of NO3 to get to where I want to go....which is naturally a stunningly healthy tank that people pay more attention to than a TV. Right now I'll settle for healthy acros and somewhat interesting display.

The cyano has lessened significantly in one tank (40 breeder which is BB), but has not changed too much in the other, (58 gallon which has a sand bed).

So far, most of the corals look healthier and happier. The only exception appears to be my wall hammer which was fine with dirtier water. It was moved within the last two weeks, so that might account for its unhappiness...its getting more flow where its at now, but it cannot attack my duncans where it's currently at either...

I tested the water again yesterday at about 330 pm which was about 24 hours after the last test and dose of NO3.

NO3 was now at about 0.2 ppm (its a judgement call with the kind of test where you compare the color to a printed sheet you hold next to the sample....I hate those. I much prefer the other style of Salifert test kits where you add drops of reagent until the color changes. Much easier than trying to determine varying degrees of pink against a white back ground).

PO4 tested out at 0.00 ppm.

So was the PO4 depleted by the chaeto in the reactor in under 24 hours, or was it sucked up by nuisance algae that I'm trying to get rid of?

I dosed 7mls of NO3 this time, down from 8 mls. I want to see if the NO3 level remains about the same, or drops down. I'm fine with keeping it at 0.2 ppm if that means I have a PO4 level of 0.02 ppm.

I also dosed the Iron Manganese solution, added another sheet of nori to the tank, (if the angel keeps being fed, he wont snack on my zoa's or my few LPS).

I'm supposed to be asleep right now....I've been working midnights this past month and I'm transitioning to dayshift today.....

I got off work early and got to bed at about 1230 am. One of the kids woke up at 315 am with a nightmare and couldnt get back to sleep.....Now she's out and I cant get back to sleep....sigh.

Might as well go test water and see what I get after about 14 hours between doses.

maxxII
05/15/2015, 04:31 AM
Just tested water.

NO3 was less than 0.2 ppm
PO4 was still 0.00 ppm


I'm kinda surprised the PO4 was still undetectable. Its actually only been 13.5 hours since the last dose of NO3 and me adding Nori to the tank.....so maybe the PO4 I got in my earlier test was from the Nori?

I'm also surprised that the NO3 level went down that quickly. Now I'm wondering if 8mls is not enough for a daily dose, and I need to up it some?

The KNO3 powder should arrive today along with my Walter White starter kit. I'm going to mix up a solution and see if there is any precipitate or residual detritus that falls out of suspension and collects in the bottom of a sealed flask. If it doesnt, then I shouldnt have to run an airstone in a container to keep it mixing. If it does, I will.

I want to be able to figure out how much NO3 needs to be dosed daily and then mix up at least a weeks worth of NO3 supplement and use an extra dosing pump I've got to add it to the tank over the 7 day time frame. I dont want to be chained to the tank adding NO3 every day....it's just not practical for me to do so with the kids being so young.

JB NY
05/15/2015, 07:43 AM
I was using about 60ml a day from the standard solution that they send.

When mixing my own, I am adding 21ml a day, I think that is adding about .75ppm of nitrates a day.

Right now my NO3 is about 2-5 ppm and the PO4 is been at 0 for a week. My chaeto is hardly growing in the reactor right now. So after about 5 months it looks like the PO4 is limiting my growth, which is exactly what I want. I have no algae in the main tank, no cyano anyplace.

At some point you will have to make a choice, add more fish and feed more to keep some nitrates in the tank, or get a dosing pump and have it add some nitrates. I have added about 12 little fish and am feeding the tank more, but still I am dosing. I have a BRS dosing pump sitting around from when I was dosing carbon, so I can easily put that online if I need to.

maxxII
05/15/2015, 08:00 AM
Thanks Joe.
Are you concerned about the lack of PO4 in your system preventing growth of your corals? I saw your latest pictures and the frags look good.

This is all preparatory to rebooting the 120. The stock list for the 120 will be:

Blue line angel, (small 2 inches...already had him for almost a year.)
Tomini Tang, (small 2.25 inches...already had him for 6 months)
Mated pair of Rod's Onyx Percula clowns, (had them for about 11 years)
Bonded pair black ocellaris clowns, (had them for about a year)
Small Yellow Tang, (1-1.5 inches...enroute from Blue Zoo Aquatics)
Small Doliatus Rabbitfish, (2-2.5 inches...enroute from Blue Zoo Aquatics)
Small Starcki Damsel, (0.5-1.5 inches...enroute from Blue Zoo Aquatics)

The two pairs of clowns are a gamble, but I need them to keep the other fish out the three H.magnifica anemones I've got and had for several years. The tank is being designed around them. I figure with several fish swimming about the tank, I can keep the clowns from venturing too far from their anemones and beating on each other.

I just need to get the new fish eating prepared foods and that should help with the NO3 input. I may still have to dose NO3, but it should be less than before. I'm going to have to get used to feeding more...for the longest time I fed very little to avoid increasing PO4 in my tank. Having this reactor means I need to feed more.

This is a change I'm happy to deal with.

JB NY
05/15/2015, 08:19 AM
I'm not that concerned about low PO4. Last time my tank was N at 0 and P at 0 using GFO and carbon dosing, and I still had very strong growth.

My plan in the future is to play with the amount of time I have the ARID reactor lit. Right now I have the light on for 12 hours down from 18 and will drop it down to 8. At some point I think there is a balance between lighting the reactor and how much nutrients it will pull out. Even if I can keep the N at 5 and P at 0 I will still be happy.

maxxII
05/15/2015, 08:46 AM
That makes sense.
What NO3 kit are you using, Salifert?

Keeping NO3 at 0.2-0.5 ppm seems reasonable.

I'm still amazed that I'm actually saying that....less than a month of running the ARID, and I'm now concerned it's takiing too much NO3 and PO4 out of the water column.

That's a good problem to have, and not one I've had to consider before.

JB NY
05/15/2015, 08:50 AM
Yes I using the Salifert test.

maxxII
05/15/2015, 09:37 AM
Does anyone make a better NO3 test kit?

By better, I mean not the way Salifert does their NO3 kit where you have to compare color graduations to determine NO3 levels?

Something that works the Salifert's Ca, DKH, or Mg would be great....much easier to determine a color change instead of color differences.....

JB NY
05/15/2015, 09:55 AM
Not that I know of.

2_zoa
05/15/2015, 04:46 PM
You mentioned iron dosing. I did a simple experiment with iron. I mixed up a fresh gallon of ASW, and dosed it with PO4. I then tested it with my hanna checker and got the proper reading for the amount of PO4 dosed. I then dosed iron and let it mix for about 15 mins. Then I retested and got a zero reading. I have no idea if the test is being fooled by the iron or if the iron bound up the PO4. I know GFO is iron so.

Just putting that out there.

ca1ore
05/15/2015, 05:21 PM
This seems like a pretty nifty idea, with a price tag to match; but is it really better than a well-designed refugium? I have an elevated sump and light my chaeto from the top,and the bottom and get very good growth. What makes this better? Not trolling; genuinely interested.

JB NY
05/15/2015, 08:49 PM
Think of it like a skimmer, price wise. I had a refugium, I couldn't get it to work this good.

maxxII
05/15/2015, 08:53 PM
You mentioned iron dosing. I did a simple experiment with iron. I mixed up a fresh gallon of ASW, and dosed it with PO4. I then tested it with my hanna checker and got the proper reading for the amount of PO4 dosed. I then dosed iron and let it mix for about 15 mins. Then I retested and got a zero reading. I have no idea if the test is being fooled by the iron or if the iron bound up the PO4. I know GFO is iron so.

Just putting that out there.

The iron supplement is a mix of Iron and Manganese. What ratios they are mixed together, I dont know. You are correct regarding GFO being iron which absorbs PO4. However, I dont know how the Iron & Manganese supplement mixture could be so potent that 6 drops per day are able to absorb the amount of PO4 my system has/had, when ALOT of GFO and 10% weekly water changes were not able to keep it below 0.08-0.1 ppm for 7 days.

I dont think its merely a matter of iron "fooling" the test, since I've also noticed a significant decrease in glass cleaning/scraping and a decrease in Cyano.

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not a scientist, and I have a sample size of one.
So this is really anecdotal observations, vs a scientific test.

The whole purpose of me starting this thread was to spark discussion and get some other viewpoints and observations out there. If anyone out there has a better method of NO3 and PO4 control, and can point out ways to improve this or better yet, get me the same results without the ARID and without spending the money on it...I'm all ears.

I'm interested in the results of this, not the means per se...

Hope that makes sense.

This seems like a pretty nifty idea, with a price tag to match; but is it really better than a well-designed refugium? I have an elevated sump and light my chaeto from the top,and the bottom and get very good growth. What makes this better? Not trolling; genuinely interested.

I dont necessarily think the ARID is "better" than what you've got going. Rather, a different way of achieving it.

I tried a traditional refugium a couple of different times, all with negative results. Obviously, some of that is due to my unique circumstances regarding my tank being in the basement, and me not being able to get good solid growth out Chaeto. I couldnt get it to tumble right, so only one side was getting lit and growing while the bottom was dying and releasing nutrients.

Honestly, I never thought of the lighting from below approach either...I dont know if that would have worked for me or not.

IMO, if you're already able to maintain your PO4 and NO3 levels without the ARID, and it's not costing you more than the ARID to do so...then I wouldnt change a thing.

Where I think the ARID shines over a traditional Refugium, (nutrient export only) is in space savings. If you have a limited amount of space, and want to run a fuge for nutrient export, this thing rocks!

If you are just setting up an add on refugium to handle an NO3/PO4, (or both) issue, the cost to do so will end up close to what I paid for this, (albeit less I think, but not by alot) when you factor in the cost of the tank, baffles, plumbing, feed pump, drilling the tank, buying lighting and the monthly cost to run it all etc.

Obviously, if you've been in the hobby for awhile, you probably have spares, or old items lying around that can be used for making a Refugium which would save you money.

I'm not married to the ARID, and I dont think it's the All-Singing-All-Dancing solution to the eternal NO3/PO4 problem.

I DO think it's a valuable option, and in my case, has managed to do things in under a month, that I've never been able to do.

I'm very much aware of how many folks get personally invested in their purchases, and how the more expensive such items are, the more virulent and "Zealot-y" a person can become. To that end, I'm trying to report my observations as unbiased as I can. I'm not trying to preach the koolaid flavor of the week to whoever signs on.

I hope I didnt come off as argumentative....nothing could be further from the truth here. I'm genuinely wanting give and take from anyone reading this.

For me, the ARID works. I'm very excited about reef keeping again. I was very close to throwing in the towel...seriously.

But I dont think it will be the magic bullet for every aquarium.




I need to get some sleep. I've been up since 315 am this morning and I only got 2.5 hours of sleep before that....so I'm pretty fried.

I'm sure I'll read this in the morning and wish I hadnt posted a reply til morning.


G'night all.

maxxII
05/15/2015, 08:55 PM
Think of it like a skimmer, price wise. I had a refugium, I couldn't get it to work this good.

Excellent observation Joe....I wish I'd made that connection myself.

Yeah....off to bed now.

ca1ore
05/15/2015, 09:04 PM
OK, thanks for the thoughtful and sensible responses. I totally 'get' the notion of a purpose-designed device to grow chaeto, and there's something appealing about the neatness of the reactor. It would also free up space in my sump to perhaps focus a bit more on pod growth. As I said before, it's a pretty nifty idea and I liked it a lot when I saw them at the FFM in CT earlier this year. Almost bought one then :)

dakota1972
05/15/2015, 09:18 PM
Where did you purchase this from can't seem to find them anywhere

2_zoa
05/15/2015, 10:37 PM
The iron supplement is a mix of Iron and Manganese. What ratios they are mixed together, I dont know. You are correct regarding GFO being iron which absorbs PO4. However, I dont know how the Iron & Manganese supplement mixture could be so potent that 6 drops per day are able to absorb the amount of PO4 my system has/had, when ALOT of GFO and 10% weekly water changes were not able to keep it below 0.08-0.1 ppm for 7 days.

I dont think its merely a matter of iron "fooling" the test, since I've also noticed a significant decrease in glass cleaning/scraping and a decrease in Cyano.

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not a scientist, and I have a sample size of one.
So this is really anecdotal observations, vs a scientific test.

The whole purpose of me starting this thread was to spark discussion and get some other viewpoints and observations out there. If anyone out there has a better method of NO3 and PO4 control, and can point out ways to improve this or better yet, get me the same results without the ARID and without spending the money on it...I'm all ears.

I'm interested in the results of this, not the means per se...

Hope that makes sense.


When I dosed my 65 with iron I dosed Randy's diy iron using Fergon tablets. I dosed the recommended amount of .25-1.25ml per 50 gals. I dosed my 65 at .25-.50ml to the tank. So that was more then your 6 drops in your 120. I actually got to where I dosed PO4 to my tank. I had to dose a lot of PO4 to see any effects. When they did show (visually) it was on the glass and not in the test kit.

In your case, you have something I didnt/don't. That's algae. So that IMO should be considered when thinking about where your PO4 reading went. I had a thread about adding PO4 and Randy commented stating that he didn't think that the iron was or is foolin the test. I still can't get a reading on my checker and I've not gone after PO4 in a good while. GlennF uses iron to control PO4

I would imagine a liquid would be much more efficient at removing said problem over a solid in a reactor or passively sitting in the sump. Look how fast lanthium chloride works.

moondoggy4
05/15/2015, 11:19 PM
Where did you purchase this from can't seem to find them anywhere

Just google it, they are having a sale right now, not cheap.

maxxII
05/16/2015, 07:27 AM
Where did you purchase this from can't seem to find them anywhere



http://pax-bellum.com/

maxxII
05/16/2015, 07:52 AM
When I dosed my 65 with iron I dosed Randy's diy iron using Fergon tablets. I dosed the recommended amount of .25-1.25ml per 50 gals. I dosed my 65 at .25-.50ml to the tank. So that was more then your 6 drops in your 120. I actually got to where I dosed PO4 to my tank. I had to dose a lot of PO4 to see any effects. When they did show (visually) it was on the glass and not in the test kit.

In your case, you have something I didnt/don't. That's algae. So that IMO should be considered when thinking about where your PO4 reading went. I had a thread about adding PO4 and Randy commented stating that he didn't think that the iron was or is foolin the test. I still can't get a reading on my checker and I've not gone after PO4 in a good while. GlennF uses iron to control PO4

I would imagine a liquid would be much more efficient at removing said problem over a solid in a reactor or passively sitting in the sump. Look how fast lanthium chloride works.

I was using significantly more LC in order to curb the PO4 and wasnt getting these kinds of results, much less for this long.

There is no doubt in my mind that the chaeto is where the NO3 and PO4 are going, and by trashing/selling the chaeto the LFS, I'm exporting it from my system.

I believe the iron manganese (IM) solution is beneficial to the cheato and not much more. I'm dosing it directly in to the sump, after the skimmer, into the same chamber the ARID reactor feed pump is at. For the 6 drops of IM to be binding that much PO4 it would have to go somewhere, and it isnt getting into the skimmer very well since it has go all through the system to get back to the skimmer.

Again, I'm not a scientist or even a chemistry guru.
If there is a Chemistry Special Ed class, I'm working to get into it...:facepalm:

But I do grasp how this works....simply put....

Chaeto in the cannister, plus lights and water flowing through it, means the Chaeto gets to strip NO3 and PO4 from the water column. Chaeto grows faster than other macro algae's so it is the best for this type of application.
Chaeto grows fast enough that NO3 and IM need to be added to the water to continue its growth, allowing it to continue to strip PO4 from the water.
The limiting factor becomes NO3 since it is stripped from the water faster than the PO4.

Continue adding NO3 to continue growing Chaeto so that it can continue to remove PO4.

I havent yet done a water change.
I havent had to change filter socks, (which was kind of a PITA due to my sump design and how my system..."evolved", (IE had tanks added on to it).
I am having to dose NO3 and IM.
And this is working for me so far.

2_zoa
05/17/2015, 01:05 AM
I was thinking, in the end the important thing here is. The fact that the ARID has renewed your interest in the hobby. Like you mentioned, you were considering getting out. I'm glad you found something that works for your system and has given you much interest in your tank.


P.S. I can relate to the early mornings. I get up at 2:45am so I can start work at 4:00. Gets old come Friday.

maxxII
05/17/2015, 10:34 AM
Ahh...thank you for that then. I still have a long way to go before I've got a tank I'm proud to show people....but this has definitely shown me a way to get there.

Rotating shifts for work suck.
I'd be deliriously happy to be able to get paid to stay at home and get up at 9am like a normal person.

sabbath
05/19/2015, 08:47 AM
Interesting. This might be the answer to sumpless setups.

I wonder how much food per day one of these can keep nitrates and phosphates in check?

maxxII
05/29/2015, 04:40 PM
05-29-2015

Just tested the tank today:

NO3 is the highest I’ve recorded since setting up the ARID - 0.3 to 0.4 ppm (salifert…cant tell for sure. It’s definitely between 0.2 ppm and 0.5 ppm)

PO4 is also the highest I’ve recorded since setting up the ARID at 0.03ppm (Hanna 96713).

These are the levels I’d like to keep the system at long term.

The cyano got so bad I had to hit it with Chemi-Clean. This wiped it out completely, but could also be the cause of the increase in NO3.

I goofed and raised the magnesium levels too much. Note to self….don’t fool with the tank when sleep deprived….

I don’t know that 1600 ppm is the cut off where Chaeto growth gets stunted. But I can verify that 1700 ppm definitely stunts its growth and pretty much causes growth to come to a standstill.

Between the Chemi-Clean and the magnesium levels, I had to do some water changes.

Magnesium is now down to 1500 ppm and my skimmer is back to working normally. Cyano is eradicated.

In the past two days, I’ve noticed a slight increase in the chaeto in the ARID reactor. So I expect my NO3 and PO4 levels to drop further and the chaeto to continue growing.

I don’t think I’ll pull as much chaeto out as I did before. I’m pretty sure I pulled too much out last time.

Basically, I’m figuring out that Tristan’s recommendations from the get go are correct.

Reading is Fundamental kids……

SantaMonica
05/30/2015, 06:45 PM
The cyano got so bad I had to hit it with Chemi-Clean. This wiped it out completely, but could also be the cause of the increase in NO3

Yes killing a bunch of any organisms will put the nutrients back into the water.

maxxII
05/31/2015, 12:33 PM
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of cyano was no longer processing the NO3 in the water column.

There has been a huge growth in chaeto in the past two days. At least 40% or more.

NO3 was tested this morning and measured between 0.3 and 0.4 ppm. I'm leaning more towards 0.3 than 0.4, but it's tough for me to differentiate between them to any degree of certainty. PO4 measured at 0.00 ppm.


The ARID E18 has been running on my system for almost 6 weeks now. And I'm still very happy with it. Even when chaeto was not growing due to high magnesium levels, PO4 levels are at the lowest levels I've ever been able to manage.

I'm not going to harvest chaeto for at least another week, and this time, I'll be sure to remove no more than 1/3rd of it. Last time I pulled to much I think.

maxxII
06/14/2015, 11:29 AM
06-14-2015

Pulled Chaeto out a few days ago. Pulled less than the first time, but still probably pulled more than I should have. I figure I pulled out about half of the chaeto this time.

Naturally, it went to the LFS for store credit.

Shortly after I harvested about half the chaeto in the reactor, the feed hose, (connected to a Maxijet 900) popped off the pump, draining the reactor and leaving the chaeto exposed, while the lights were running. This burned a fair amount of the cheato, turning it white and looking like over cooked spaghetti.

This is the second time this has happened, but it appears to be worse this time around. I will be adding a plastic locking hose clamp to the Maxi-jet end of the hose to prevent this from occurring again.

NO3 is at 2.5 ppm, (due to dosing NO3).
PO4 is at 0.00 ppm via Hanna 96713.

I did notice a slight growth of nuisance algae when I first started dosing NO3. However, as time has gone on, the nuisance algae in the tank is looking sickly and brown.

It's just a few days early, but after running the ARID E18 for almost 2 months, (Started April 17th), I have to state that I'm very very happy with the results and how it's working out.

Corals are looking much better and I'm seeing growth in the few acro frags I have. Over all, this is showing itself to be worth the money IMO.

infusionluke
06/15/2015, 01:40 PM
Thanks for the review, really great info here! Threads like this keep the hobby evolving. please keep this thread updated with your results, failures, improvements, etc. :beer:
Subscribed!

Older salty
07/28/2015, 07:48 PM
It has a longer name, Tristan told me what it is. Told me to do the 20 mule team to get the boron up. I didn't have much success. I had ran it for about.3 weeks. Will be getting more chateo in a day or two and will try again with my 90 gallon I previously had it setup with my 200 gallon. I don't have any corals at this time but it is my goal to have corals. I will see what happens this time and also get some plastic hose clamps.

skydancer
09/22/2015, 05:07 AM
Any updates?

SantaMonica
09/22/2015, 08:47 PM
Interested too.

moondoggy4
09/23/2015, 08:43 PM
Hose blew , you tried Eheim tubing? Works real good and last for decades.

JB NY
09/24/2015, 07:56 AM
So my reactor is still going. My chaeto growth has slowed dramatically, about 1/3 of what it used to be. I think the excess nutrients have been removed from the tank and now it is just pulling out what ever excessive amounts I get on a daily basis.

My levels from the other day are NO3 5ppm, PO4 0.02ppm. I still dose about .5ppm daily of KNO3 to keep levels where they are.

My tank was rebooted less than 10 months ago, so there is not much large corals in the tank but lots of SPS frags and smaller LPS that are all doing fine. Still no algae in the display tank. These are pictures from a week or two ago.

http://cnidarianreef.com/G270/images/dscn2/20150904-_D711007.jpg

http://cnidarianreef.com/G270/images/dscn2/20150904-_D711015.jpg

mr9iron
09/24/2015, 09:56 AM
Very interesting to say the least. This is definitely something I should consider for the 230 i am building. Lets keep the updates coming. Oh, JBNY, great looking tank.

moondoggy4
09/24/2015, 07:19 PM
I love the rock scape JB NY Do you have to clean the glass often?

JB NY
09/25/2015, 07:12 AM
Thanks, I tried to make the rock work as open as possible for the fish to swim.

I clean the glass every 4-5 days

trueperc
09/25/2015, 09:49 AM
This seems to be a great little device. I really like the idea of using cheato. I have been looking for a good way to stop the carbon dosing but the idea of setting up a refug on my tank is almost out of the question due to the size of refug I would need for my 300 gallon. Thanks for sharing your results.

JB NY
09/25/2015, 10:03 AM
I stopped carbon dosing and using GFO in Dec 2014.

Tarawa
09/26/2015, 09:36 AM
This is genius.I had never even considered running cheato thru a reactor like that. I have a transparent unused nextreef reactor that could be modified to do this, except lights on the outside, and wouldnt look anywhere near as cool.

Sinekal
09/26/2015, 11:38 AM
Do you get any cyano inside the reactor or is the flow through sufficient to ensure it doesn't occur. My refugium does a great job of keeping nitrates and phosphates in check but I can't ever seem to create enough flow in it to keep the cyano in check.

rq786
09/27/2015, 04:17 PM
I am trying to convert simple reactor for this method
What color leds would work for it

vmvm60
09/27/2015, 11:34 PM
I am trying to convert simple reactor for this method
What color leds would work for it

I'm also interested in DIY-ing something similar. However, I think the most difficult part will be the LED cooling... I could not find anywhere(ebay, Chinese online) such a metal rod and heatsink...

OllieNZ
09/27/2015, 11:38 PM
I'm also interested in DIY-ing something similar. However, I think the most difficult part will be the LED cooling... I could not find anywhere(ebay, Chinese online) such a metal rod and heatsink...
it appears to be a copper pipe with a heat sink mounted on one end, should be fairly simple to diy.

rq786
09/28/2015, 02:22 PM
Can you use rc car engine head

JB NY
09/28/2015, 02:56 PM
Do you get any cyano inside the reactor or is the flow through sufficient to ensure it doesn't occur. My refugium does a great job of keeping nitrates and phosphates in check but I can't ever seem to create enough flow in it to keep the cyano in check.

I do have cyano in my reactor. It is the only place I have cyano in my whole system so I am fine with it being there.

trueperc
09/29/2015, 06:51 AM
I am wondering on the sizing they use. JB NY, you were saying you are not getting the same growth as before and I am wondering would you have been better to go with a smaller unit? My thoughts are similar to those ATS, the people running them and who built them found bigger was always not better and there was for sure size issue. There was a great reduction in size recommendations from when it first started. The reason I am asking, is I have already contacted the company and really like this idea, but I stumbled across some board and people where have issues with getting good growth. The model they suggested was the E or C 24, but my thoughts is accually the E or C 18 as from my understanding standing is only a 6 inch height difference. I would rather trim more often than have an issue with growth. What do you think? If you where to do it again would you stay the same size or go the smaller unit?

OllieNZ
09/29/2015, 08:04 AM
I do have cyano in my reactor. It is the only place I have cyano in my whole system so I am fine with it being there.
I wonder if this is indicative of nitrate deficiency? In a planted fw tank cyano is often a symptom of nitrate deficiency and the addition of kno3 will cause it to recede fairly rapidly. I'm aware that sw systems are different but would be interested to see whether dosing an inorganic source of nitrate in a controlled and calculated manner would boost the cheato growth and cause the disappearance of the cyano.

trueperc
09/29/2015, 08:21 AM
I believe they actually provide you with some nitrate solution when you buy it.

JB NY
09/29/2015, 08:38 AM
I am wondering on the sizing they use. JB NY, you were saying you are not getting the same growth as before and I am wondering would you have been better to go with a smaller unit? My thoughts are similar to those ATS, the people running them and who built them found bigger was always not better and there was for sure size issue. There was a great reduction in size recommendations from when it first started. The reason I am asking, is I have already contacted the company and really like this idea, but I stumbled across some board and people where have issues with getting good growth. The model they suggested was the E or C 24, but my thoughts is accually the E or C 18 as from my understanding standing is only a 6 inch height difference. I would rather trim more often than have an issue with growth. What do you think? If you where to do it again would you stay the same size or go the smaller unit?

I'm not sure, I don't know how oversizing it would really give me anything other than more room in the reactor. One thing I have been doing that they do not recommend is running ozone. I have run ozone on my tanks I I didn't want to stop using it. Tristan at Pax thinks that is absolutely can adversely affect macro growth, so I shut it off 4 days ago to see if it helps when the Chaeto growth. FWIW other than not having strong growth anymore, I am not suffering from any issues, nutrient or algae in my system. It's been pretty rock steady for months now.

I wonder if this is indicative of nitrate deficiency? In a planted fw tank cyano is often a symptom of nitrate deficiency and the addition of kno3 will cause it to recede fairly rapidly. I'm aware that sw systems are different but would be interested to see whether dosing an inorganic source of nitrate in a controlled and calculated manner would boost the cheato growth and cause the disappearance of the cyano.

I do dose KN03 daily I have been for a good 6-7 months.

OllieNZ
09/29/2015, 08:44 AM
I'm not sure, I don't know how oversizing it would really give me anything other than more room in the reactor. One thing I have been doing that they do not recommend is running ozone. I have run ozone on my tanks I I didn't want to stop using it. Tristan at Pax thinks that is absolutely can adversely affect macro growth, so I shut it off 4 days ago to see if it helps when the Chaeto growth. FWIW other than not having strong growth anymore, I am not suffering from any issues, nutrient or algae in my system. It's been pretty rock steady for months now.



I do dose KN03 daily I have been for a good 6-7 months.

How much are you dosing? (Just interested) :)

JB NY
09/29/2015, 08:55 AM
enough to raise the system .5ppm a day.

OllieNZ
09/29/2015, 09:29 AM
enough to raise the system .5ppm a day.
Is that depleted daily? Or do you maintain a consistent figure?

JB NY
09/29/2015, 09:46 AM
I maintain it at 5ppm, I started with an almost zero reading and raised 1ppm a day until I had about 5-7ppm then dropped back to the dose I have now. It keeps my NO3 at 5ppm.

OllieNZ
09/29/2015, 09:56 AM
I maintain it at 5ppm, I started with an almost zero reading and raised 1ppm a day until I had about 5-7ppm then dropped back to the dose I have now. It keeps my NO3 at 5ppm.
Thanks for the info:)

SantaMonica
09/30/2015, 12:04 PM
I don't know how oversizing it would really give me anything other than more room in the reactor

One thing it could do is cause flow to route around the growth. Or, if the lights are the same, then a larger size could allow the growth to get farther away from the light.

clorox
10/13/2015, 10:42 AM
Ok, how do I buy one of these? Pax bellum's site is under construction. I sent them an email a week ago but no answer.

BfishLpond78
10/19/2015, 12:57 PM
I've seen a few mixed reviews on this product...Would love to hear other peoples experiences with these units.

vmvm60
10/19/2015, 01:58 PM
I've seen a few mixed reviews on this product...Would love to hear other peoples experiences with these units.

I've only found positive reviews! I am really curious about the not so good ones ...

JB NY
10/19/2015, 02:20 PM
A few people had problems with getting chaeto to grow. I am not sure if that is an issue with the product or the tank though.

BfishLpond78
10/19/2015, 02:21 PM
A few people had problems with getting chaeto to grow. I am not sure if that is an issue with the product or the tank though.


What are proper growing parameters for growing Chaeto?

JB NY
10/19/2015, 02:28 PM
I am not 100% sure. I know that a decent amount of N and P are needed. Boron levels also need to be normal, as well as Iron and Manganese I think. Then it's light and flow. But with everything if something else if off for some reason it could impact the growth too.

SantaMonica
10/20/2015, 09:47 PM
There is a small percentage of tanks, in saltwater only, and in reefs only, which have a bacterial balance which seems to grow only slime in scrubbers. Until a sufficient amount of this slime is removed, GHA and chaeto has trouble growing. FW seems to never have a problem. And FO also never seems to never have a problem (probably because of all the ammonia).

maxxII
10/21/2015, 03:23 PM
It's been awhile since I've posted about my reactor and my experiences....

I've been running the ARID E18 since April 17th of this year, (6 months so far), and my Phosphate levels are constantly and consistently lower than I've ever experienced in the hobby.

In fact, they are too low.

I've actually had undetectable PO4 levels for several months and have lost frags and SPS because of it.

I tested my water again just an hour ago and got NO3 levels at 10ppm, (Salifert) and PO4 levels at 0.00 ppm, (Hanna 96713 Photometer).

My system is approximately 140 gallons and consists of two display tanks, (40 breeder containing two 8-10 inch in diameter H.magnifica anemones, a pair of Darwin Black Occellaris clowns, a small yellow tang and a Doliatus Rabbitfish. This tank had my sps frags in it, but now just contains 2 different types of montipora which are unhappy but hanging on. The other display is a 58 gallon tank containing a 10-12 inch diameter H.magnifica anemone, a mated pair of Rod's Onyx Percula clownfish, a small Blue Line Angelfish, a small Tomini Tang, a 5-6 inch diameter H.crispa anemone, and a few LPS and softies and a large 12 inch Derasa clam.)

I originally had issues with Green Hair Algae, (GHA) and green cyanobacteria.

Both are gone now.

I did have an infestation of GHA in the reactor oddly enough. It contaminated the chaeto and I wound up pitching the whole mess. I initially tried to pull out the GHA from the Chaeto thinking the Chaeto would out compete the GHA and starve it out. This proved not to be the case. At this point, I can only assume GHA outcompetes chaeto in my system. I was never able to completely eradicate the GHA until I pitched the whole mess and scrubbed out the reactor. I used a toothbrush to remove as much as possible, and a green scrubby pad to clean out the inside of the cylinder itself.

I then ran the whole reactor with straight vinegar in a bucket for 3 days which killed off any remaining GHA.

I upped my feedings to increase my nutrient load in the system, and everything got fat...including my H.magnifica anemones. Prior to this, I was able to keep them very small by targeted feedings, like between 6-7 inches in diameter small. They've since increased to the sizes listed above.

In addition to getting fish fat and making my anemones larger, I was able to see a short increase in PO4 up to 0.01 ppm, but only for a day.

Throughout all of this, I've been steadily reducing my photo period from the 18 hours a day I started with, down to 6 hours a day before running the reactor with vineger. The idea being that less lighting means less algae growth, means less PO4 uptake....


I'm now down to 4 hours of light per 24 hour period, and Chaeto is still growing. It's been 20 days since I cleaned out the reactor and added new chaeto, (without GHA). I've been running 4 hours of light per day since then and chaeto has still trippled in size.

I emailed Tristan regarding this and he immediately asked if I was using any other form of filtration.

I'm currently running an oversized skimmer for my system.

It started out as a Reef Octopus XS250 Extreme skimmer (http://www.marinedepot.com/Reef_Octopus_Extreme_10_Inch_XS250_(250_Gallon)_In_Sump_Protein_Skimmer_w_Gate_Valve_In_Sump_Venturi _Needle_Wheel_Protein_Skimmers-Reef_Octopus-CV5173-FIPSISNW-CV5175-vi.html) which was rated for a 250 gallon system, (which is what I used to have), but the Sicce PSK pumps proved to be unreliable at start up so I replaced them with a Bubble Blaster 5000 pump which basically turned the skimmer into a Super Reef Octopus 5000 internal (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/super-reef-octopus-sro-5000int-10-in-sump-protein-skimmer-282b2d93c42db32b12a17752c36ee10d.html) which is rated for much larger systems.

Regardless, it pulls alot out of the aquarium.

Tristan stated he'd never run lighting on Chaeto for less than 8 hours straight and that they'd typically been conservative on their ratings for their ARID reactors. He recommended shutting off the skimmer and seeing what happened with that.

I've been trying to move slowly on this and only change one thing at a time since I want to know exactly what is causing the changes in my system.

It sucks that I've lost most of my SPS frags, but I'd rather get this all dialed in before I move everything over to the 120.

So I'm off to shut down my skimmer, (Something I never thought I'd ever be doing in a reef tank) and I'll clean it out and pull it from the sump.

I'll keep updates coming as they occur. Hopefully, pulling the skimmer will result in an increase in PO4, (another thing I never thought I'd be trying to do...raise my phosphates in my reef tank).

I do want to be clear....I'm not unhappy with the ARID reactor, it's doing exactly what I wanted and needed it to do....it's just doing it too well right now.

I'm confident I can get it dialed in and get this resolved.

clorox
10/21/2015, 03:49 PM
This is very interesting and useful info. I am in the process of ordering a C24 from Tristan.
For what I gather reading threads about the ARID is that it needs to be dialed in. It seems to me that the key is finding a balanced ratio between dissolved nutrients and quantity of cheato and prunings.

trueperc
10/21/2015, 04:00 PM
Thanks MaxxII for the update, its funny even with Tristan stating "conservative on their ratings for their ARID reactors" I am really wondering about the sizing especially if running a skimmer. Like ATS oversize really seems to be not a good thing, just like way to big of skimmer can be an issue. I am wanting one, but really thinking about ordering a much smaller unit that recommended for my size to tank.

maxxII
10/21/2015, 04:38 PM
Thanks MaxxII for the update, its funny even with Tristan stating "conservative on their ratings for their ARID reactors" I am really wondering about the sizing especially if running a skimmer. Like ATS oversize really seems to be not a good thing, just like way to big of skimmer can be an issue. I am wanting one, but really thinking about ordering a much smaller unit that recommended for my size to tank.


I think there are more factors involved than just "I have a 150 gallon system, I need to be running an ARID E18"

Obviously, tank inhabitants play an important role as well.

I'm pretty sure I will get this figured out. However, my situation is a little more difficult because I'm space limited and keeping not one, but three large species of anemone in my system.

Without the anemones, I wouldnt have had an issue with feeding more. I could keep dumping in food until I hit my desired phosphate levels. Clean up crew would get nice and fat and I could get wall to wall nassarius snails and cerith snails to take care of the stuff the fish didnt eat.

I've traditionally run BB systems, had a small fish population, and run an oversized skimmer. Adding the ARID reactor to the mix changes things significantly. I'm in the process of adding more fish to the mix and feeding more heavily. Hopefully, pulling the skimmer will change things enough to have detectable phosphates in the near future.

SantaMonica
10/21/2015, 06:50 PM
You will typically find that gha out-competes chaeto, like it did with yours. And that was without rapid air/water interface turbulence, or strong light. That's the main reason gha scrubbers have the photosynthesis pulling power they do, and thus can be made to be like a smaller magnet, but just as much pulling power.

Chaeto certainly still has it uses though.

JB NY
10/21/2015, 07:04 PM
Pax-bellum recommends not running a skimmer once the ARID is up and running.

maxxII
10/21/2015, 07:14 PM
You will typically find that gha out-competes chaeto, like it did with yours. And that was without rapid air/water interface turbulence, or strong light. That's the main reason gha scrubbers have the photosynthesis pulling power they do, and thus can be made to be like a smaller magnet, but just as much pulling power.

Chaeto certainly still has it uses though.

The LFS pays me store credit to bring them chaeto....cant get anyone to pay me for GHA.

I honestly did not realize that GHA would out compete chaeto...I had always heard the opposite.

Obviously, I heard wrong...

maxxII
10/21/2015, 07:16 PM
Pax-bellum recommends not running a skimmer once the ARID is up and running.

Tristan recommended that I go with the E24 if I was going skimmerless, and stated the E18 would fine if I was using a skimmer.

Re-reading our email conversation, I did neglect to mention that I was using a skimmer set up for a system more than 3x the size of mine....


Are you still running your skimmer Joe?

JB NY
10/21/2015, 07:38 PM
I still am.

maxxII
10/21/2015, 08:15 PM
Have you changed your photo period any or is it still around 12-14 hours?

JB NY
10/22/2015, 07:11 AM
I am running at 14 hours of light.

BfishLpond78
10/22/2015, 07:52 AM
I'm curious to know the amount of Chaeto is being grown with these units? What takes care of the dissolved inorganics in the water?

My current setup yields me 5-6 gallons of Chaeto a month. Now before people flame me for trying to derail a thread. I'm totally onboard with the use of their type of lighting approach, love the design and what I've seen. I do know someone who is having the worst luck with trying to grow Chaeto in these reactors. I'm curious what factors could inhibit Chaeto growth. He has large systems and PLENTY of NO3/PO4, so nutrients are not an issue.

JB NY
10/22/2015, 08:14 AM
I know who you are talking about. I don't know why he is having trouble growing chaeto.

As for me I was growing an awful lot and then over the summer it slowed down dramatically, I still open the unit up every 10 days and clean it and rinse the chaeto but I have not harvested any and it is only growing a little more each time I take a look. But my P and N numbers are stil very low so I am fine with what has happened.

BfishLpond78
10/22/2015, 08:19 AM
I know who you are talking about. I don't know why he is having trouble growing chaeto.

As for me I was growing an awful lot and then over the summer it slowed down dramatically, I still open the unit up every 10 days and clean it and rinse the chaeto but I have not harvested any and it is only growing a little more each time I take a look. But my P and N numbers are stil very low so I am fine with what has happened.

Lol...I didn't notice your location till now, so I guess you do know who i'm talking about. I've been his chaeto supplier for these reactors.

I figured since this thread is mainly about growing chaeto I'd try and learn what factors inhibit growth, could your nutrients be too high?

JB NY
10/22/2015, 11:19 AM
I really don't know why it happens on some systems. I absolutely don't think my system has high nutrients.

SantaMonica
10/22/2015, 01:19 PM
I think it's a particular bacterial combination on a rare number of tanks. It's only on reef tanks, and only on well established ones. And only 1 percent of those.

They still grow, but they grow dark slime which does not attach well.

maxxII
10/22/2015, 04:52 PM
Lol...I didn't notice your location till now, so I guess you do know who i'm talking about. I've been his chaeto supplier for these reactors.

I figured since this thread is mainly about growing chaeto I'd try and learn what factors inhibit growth, could your nutrients be too high?


The only things I've experianced which will stall or inhibit chaeto growth are magnesium levels above 1500 ppm, and Green Hair Algae in the reactor.

GHA in the tank didnt affect chaeto growth in the reactor, but it did stop it inside the reactor.


What's your buddy's magnesium level?

Additionally low Boron levels can slow growth down...

maxxII
10/28/2015, 01:10 AM
It's been 7 days without my skimmer on my system.
In addition to removing my skimmer, I restarted my calcium reactor as well.
I didnt need it previously and kalk was keep up with my minuscule calcium demands. I restarted it thinking the dissolving calcium reactor media would add PO4 to my system.

Here are current tank parameters:

DKH - 8.0
Ca - 370 ppm
Mg - 1365 ppm
NO3 - 5 ppm
PO4 - 0.00 ppm

All tests except PO4 were by Salifert. PO4 tested by Hanna 96713 Photometer.

Photo period for the ARID E18 is still 4 hours per day.

Plan B was to remove the skimmer and start the Calcium Reactor while maintaining heavy (for me) feedings of Nori, various frozen foods, and supplementing with flake food.

Obviously, it has not worked.

On to plan C.

The ARID E18 is being fed by a MaxiJet 900 and after testing, I determined the effluent rate to be 72 gallons per hour.

(50/Fifty seconds to fill a one gallon jug full of effluent water from reactor. 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour = 3600 seconds in an hour. 3600 divided by 50 = 72)
I'm showing my math so that any errors I made can be corrected. I'm not a Rocket Surgeon and math was never a strong point of mine.

I added a mini ball valve to the feed tubing and reduced the flow rate down to 30 gallons per hour.

(Two/2 minutes to fill a one gallon jug with effluent. Simple math here, 60 minutes divided by 2 = 30 gph)

So, we'll see what happens here.

I'm not sure what level I can reduce the flow rate through before it becomes a problem for the chaeto. I'll email Tristan at Pax-Bellum and ask him.

Plan D is to reduce the amount of Chaeto I grow from 2 chambers, down to 1 chamber of the reactor.

JB NY
10/28/2015, 10:00 AM
Personally I do not think that 0.00 PO4 will hurt you, there is very little phosphate in the reef. Obviously there is trace amounts or nothing would be growing but I would look at other things for problems with the corals.

A lot of times when you clean up the water quality dramatically the corals can suffer short term as the try an acclimate to the new conditions in the tank. I think that might be what is happening.

JB NY
10/28/2015, 10:04 AM
You only have 73 GPH in the reactor? Tristan wants me to have 500-600 in mine? As hard as I push it I can only get about 460.

maxxII
10/28/2015, 08:57 PM
Personally I do not think that 0.00 PO4 will hurt you, there is very little phosphate in the reef. Obviously there is trace amounts or nothing would be growing but I would look at other things for problems with the corals.

A lot of times when you clean up the water quality dramatically the corals can suffer short term as the try an acclimate to the new conditions in the tank. I think that might be what is happening.

Well I'm at a loss then as to what's causing the losses. I've been scared to try new frags since I lost everything else...

I literally only have 3 montipora left, and none of them particularily happy. Most of my LPS have been doing ok, but lately my wall hammer is looking bad... So I'm pretty concerned. I'd like to see 0.01-0.02 ppm PO4 ideally...

I'll look into a cheap tester frag to see what happens...

You only have 73 GPH in the reactor? Tristan wants me to have 500-600 in mine? As hard as I push it I can only get about 460.

I didnt realize that was what my flow rate through the reactor was until I tested it last night. But according to my math skills, I was pushing 72 gallons per hour through the reactor and I've since dialed it back to 30 gph. Hoping that helps.

SantaMonica
11/02/2015, 10:42 PM
Any way that something copper could have fallen in?

maxxII
11/10/2015, 03:06 PM
Any way that something copper could have fallen in?


No.

I still have 3 Heteractis magnifica anemones, and a small Heteractis crispa anemone in the system as well as a large Derasa clam, some zoanthids, a small wall hammer, a small colony of Blastomussa Wellsi, a small colony of Blastomussa merlatti, and trachephylia frag. All of this is in addition to a small frag of Monti Cap, a small frag of Monti spongeodes, and a small frag of superman monti, plus numerous small snails, mini brittle stars, pods etc. Corals dont look happy, and I lost all SPS frags except for the monti's, but everything else is still fine.

No copper in the system.

maxxII
11/10/2015, 03:53 PM
Update

11-10-15

I intended to change one thing at a time. However, this did not happen as I wanted.
Tristan saw my previous post about slowing flow through the reactor. He said NOT to do that. Tristan told me to open the flow to wide open in the reactor.

While buying new salt for the QT tank,(quartet of lyre tailed anthias in a 55 gallon QT) I saw some freshwater planted tank supplements.
Specifically aquavitro activate (http://www.aquavitro.com/products/activate.html), which is a concentrated source of phosphorus.

I bought it intending to use it and see what would happen.
The instructions on my bottle, (different than the instructions on the website) state to dose 7 mls per 250 gallons to raise PO4 by 0.15 mg/L or ppm.

I dosed 7 mls 11-01-2015. PO4 tested at 0.14 ppm via Hanna 96713 approximately two hours later.

On 11-02-2015 approximately 24 hours after adding 7mls of activate, PO4 tested out at 0.00 ppm. I added an additional 7 mls of activate.

No testing done on 11-03-2015 due to late night at work.

On 11-04-2015 at 1am, (had just gotten home from that late night at work), I dosed 7mls of activate a 3rd time.

On 11-04-2015 at 430 pm I contacted Tristan and asked him about his thoughts on dosing PO4 into the tank with the intent of keeping levels where desired. I figured if I'm already dosing NO3, dosing PO4 shouldnt be a big deal either, right. Besides, we dose Calcium and magnesium into our tanks, right?

I know, it would have been smarter to ask before doing, vs doing it after....I wasnt being smart.

Tristan replied that he didnt think that was a good idea. He sent me a link to a study about PO4 uptake in coastal waters in Hawaii, (organic vs inorganic PO4 ...phytoplankton and bacteria were studied. Short version is that inorgantic/orthophosphates were preferred by bacteria - Link to PDF (http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/111/m111p265.pdf).

He also asked me to do a 20% water change and wait a week to see what happened.

The skimmer has been offline, (cleaned and removed from the sump entirely) since 10-21-2015.

I did a 40 gallon water change on 11-05-2015. I used Instant Ocean salt mix for the water change, and the freshly mixed IO showed 0.00 ppm PO4.

On 11-05-2015 at approx 8 pm, PO4 tested at 0.06 ppm.

It's only been 5 days since the water change and here are the system parameters as of 30 minutes ago:

DKH - 8.75 (Salifert)
Ca - 405 ppm (Salifert)
Mg - 1440 ppm (Salifert)
NO3 - Between 2.5-5 ppm (Salifert)
PO4 - 0.04 ppm (Hanna 96713)
Salinity 1.025 via refractometer.

activate was only dosed three times, 7mls each time on 11-01-2015, 11-02-2015, and 11-04-2015.

Corals now look "happier".

I goofed in adding the activate before bouncing it off of Tristan. My thought process was that activate was designed for freshwater plants, and would most likely consist of organic PO4 vs inorganic, although I honestly dont know.

I am however, very happy to have some PO4 in the system.

Ideally, I'll be able to dial down the NO3 & PO4 to 2.5 ppm and 0.02 ppm respectively.

I need to wait longer before doing anything else to ensure my PO4 levels are not just a short term rise, before they fall off the map again.

I'm also not sure how rapid the changes I made in this time frame will show up...IE, is the rise in PO4 due to the skimmer being taken off line, me adding activate to the tank 3 times, the water change, or a combination of all three?

There are some very smart people here who can certainly offer their insights on this....which is why I'm posting this here, even though I end up looking like a neurotic impatient freakshow.

Adamc1303
11/13/2015, 05:58 AM
I threw my reactor back online. I'm running it in conjunction with my fuge. Are you guys running them on a reverse light cycle or 24/7?
Let's see how she does!

JB NY
11/13/2015, 08:05 AM
Reverse light cycle. Don't run it 24/7, the cheato (like most algae) need a resting cycle. minimum of 6 hours. So 18 hours on 6 off.

Relativity
11/13/2015, 09:56 PM
Could you give me the link to where you bought this

maxxII
11/14/2015, 02:57 PM
http://pax-bellum.com/

Call them.

bawalitt
01/01/2016, 05:13 AM
where did you guys purchase your reactors.
thx

Volcano1
01/01/2016, 12:30 PM
Sent PM, have one on order, should have next week.

biecacka
01/01/2016, 12:42 PM
Looking forward to more reviews of this product. It looks very interesting, I emailed him about a small unit.

Corey

maxxII
01/01/2016, 09:12 PM
where did you guys purchase your reactors.
thx

I sent Pax-Bellum an email and purchased through them.


I've been running mine since April and after some dialing in, I could not be happier.

gotfrogs
01/27/2016, 06:29 AM
I got my ARID 30 set up and installed last weekend. Here is a video showing off the plumbing to my 280 gallon reef. I tested my nitrate and phosphates and both read zero (Salifert and Hanna low range phosphate meter) so I am a little unsure how well the cheto is going to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGWM-NthRYs

JB NY
01/27/2016, 08:05 AM
Are you running any other forms for Nitrate or phosphate removal? if you are you should stop and let the ARID be the sole means of getting rid of N and P.

gotfrogs
01/27/2016, 08:51 AM
Joe - it is a new tank that had only been running for a few months. The only other filtration is a skimmer, carbon and filter socks changed weekly.

JB NY
01/27/2016, 09:21 AM
Nice, I think you will be impressed by how well it works.

Volcano1
01/27/2016, 02:47 PM
My C-30 has been running about 1.5 weeks. Cheato is growing, seems like water may be a little clearer. My pre ARID numbers were PO4 .35, NO3. 15.
Numbers today PO4. .38. NO3 20
I pulled my bio pellet reactor and had a skimmer issue for a day or two.
Hoping numbers come down when I harvest cheato. Waiting for chamber to fill up first.

Volcano1
01/27/2016, 02:48 PM
And I'm do for water change. 😋

JB NY
01/27/2016, 03:25 PM
I found that opening up the chamber and removing some cheato every 10-14 days gave me the best growth, also 18 hours of light. I think 3-4 weeks and then you will start to see some things happening.

newyorkerx
02/08/2016, 12:06 PM
One thing that I haven't seen discussed is whether these provide any of the other benefits of a refugium. When you harvest your cheato, do you see a lot of pods?

maxxII
02/08/2016, 03:53 PM
One thing that I haven't seen discussed is whether these provide any of the other benefits of a refugium. When you harvest your cheato, do you see a lot of pods?

Tristan has been very clear and very upfront about the ARID Reactors purpose while speaking over the phone and via email....

The ARID is NOT a refugium by design. It's sole purpose is to reduce and remove phosphate (PO4) and nitrate (NO3). It's so good at this, many folks actually need to add NO3 to their tanks, and I went from PO4 levels that were too high to PO4 levels that were too low and losing corals because of it until I got it dialed in.

The ARID is a nutrient export device and that is it's sole purpose. Pods and the like may grow/live/breed in the ARID, but that is a side benefit.

When I ran an algae based refugium, I had many many more pods in it and in the DT, but I did not have anywhere near the PO4 control and was still needing to do alot of weekly water changes and run alot of GFO to keep PO4 at the upper end of tolerable levels.

If you want more pods etc, run a fuge for them. If you want to destroy PO4, get an ARID.

It is actually possible to run an ARID and have a smallish rubble area in your sump (or in the DT if desired) to increase your pod population.

RedStangGA
02/23/2016, 06:08 PM
Just got a quote for one. Maybe I can sell my NIB skimmer to help compensate for the cost of this thing. Decisions, decisions.

maxxII
03/01/2016, 04:08 PM
https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=yto9VLOTOoOhyAS224LQBA&ved=0CAcQ1S4#q=unique+corals+pax+bellum+n12

A new nano version is being released.... top hit on google at the link

ca1ore
03/01/2016, 04:30 PM
Any wisdom about whether this device is adding material heat to the tank or not? It 'seems' like it would.

maxxII
03/01/2016, 05:20 PM
It is not adding any heat to the tank. The heat sink sits on top of the rod the led's are mounted on. The heat dissipates to the surrounding air.

Kairus
03/01/2016, 06:21 PM
https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=yto9VLOTOoOhyAS224LQBA&ved=0CAcQ1S4#q=unique+corals+pax+bellum+n12

A new nano version is being released.... top hit on google at the link

I was hoping they would make a nano version. $450 is a little steep for what this product is though.

maxxII
03/01/2016, 06:47 PM
I was never able to reduce PO4 to tolerable levels before buying my ARID E18. If you dont have that problem, then it's probably not for you. The ARID Reactors control PO4 and NO3 like nothing I've ever seen. I dont regret buying mine at all.

SantaMonica
03/01/2016, 10:27 PM
The heat-in-the-water situation is an interesting one. The new submersible scrubber lights coming out will be doing the opposite... adding the heat to the water.

JB NY
03/02/2016, 07:59 AM
I was hoping they would make a nano version. $450 is a little steep for what this product is though.

Depends on how you look at it. It can replace your skimmer, GFO and carbon dosing. They make all the units in house so it is more expensive than if they were a huge operation and doing the work out of china.

Volcano1
03/02/2016, 02:54 PM
I'm still waiting for my numbers to drop. I am getting growth, just seems slow. I rinsed and re spread what algae was in each chamber, both were about half full. A few more days and it will be two weeks, I'll take things apart and re rinse. Is everyone waiting for the chambers to fill before removing any cheato? I have been dosing the iron supplement for the past 3 weeks. Cheato doesn't seem brittle, but I will check boron levels and see if I need to supplement that as well. My biggest complaint so far is the cleaning and rest ringing of the algae is a little pita. I have been having issues with my right hand arm, so I volunteered my wife for this. :)

JB NY
03/02/2016, 03:08 PM
Cleaning is a pita I agree. I remove my cheato and rinse every ten days regardless if the growth is enough to fill the chamber.

Volcano1
03/02/2016, 03:15 PM
Do you let it fill the chamber before you remove any?
I don't want to remove too much, as I don't know what a "full" chamber looks like.

JB NY
03/02/2016, 03:16 PM
I only remove it if the chamber gets full. Meaning the whole chamber is full of chaeto, no where for it to grow.

JB NY
03/02/2016, 03:19 PM
This is about when I start thinning it out.

http://cnidarianreef.com/G270/images/dscn2/6f2b-616c-0e32-kis8.jpeg


So not quite full, but close.

Volcano1
03/02/2016, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the photo Joe.
I'm not that full yet. I was about half that last time I was in.

Volcano1
03/02/2016, 03:37 PM
It looks like you have two more chambers than I do.

JB NY
03/02/2016, 03:38 PM
Mine is the C30 what is yours?

Volcano1
03/02/2016, 04:15 PM
I thought mine was c-30 as well

JoshuaG
03/02/2016, 04:30 PM
Very cool product but the prices they are asking for what you get is ridiculous. It's basically just an empty tube of acrylic with some LED lights running down the middle. But hey seems they are getting people to pay it so more power to them!

jpa14
03/02/2016, 07:15 PM
my c30 has two chambers also. its been running just over a week and is 2/3 full.. I'm running a mag 5 pump and lights on for 12 hours a day..

SantaMonica
03/02/2016, 09:59 PM
What is "ringing" the algae?

ca1ore
03/02/2016, 10:15 PM
Very cool product but the prices they are asking for what you get is ridiculous. It's basically just an empty tube of acrylic with some LED lights running down the middle. But hey seems they are getting people to pay it so more power to them!

Isn't that true with most reef gear? Easy enough to DiY - there's a thread here somewhere on that. I've seen these in person though, and the build quality is very high. Value in the eye of the buyer I suppose.

fearyaks
03/05/2016, 02:34 PM
Silly question, was thinking of getting the nano.. will it fit inside the sump or sit outside 'dry' ?

Thanks in advance!

Volcano1
03/05/2016, 03:21 PM
Boron tested 4-5 ppm today, no color on sea hem test indicating iodine and only brown color on seachems iron test. I e been dosing iron at 20 drops daily for 500 gallons of actual water.

maxxII
03/05/2016, 08:59 PM
Silly question, was thinking of getting the nano.. will it fit inside the sump or sit outside 'dry' ?

Thanks in advance!

While it will fit inside the sump, I really dont think it should be. The LED light source has a short, (as in 6 inches on my E18) male connector that plugs into the female cord on the power source side.

I just run mine outside the sump and feed it with a Maxijet 900.

Volcano1
03/06/2016, 12:24 AM
I gotta quit typing on my phone. :)

fearyaks
03/06/2016, 11:55 AM
While it will fit inside the sump, I really dont think it should be. The LED light source has a short, (as in 6 inches on my E18) male connector that plugs into the female cord on the power source side.

I just run mine outside the sump and feed it with a Maxijet 900.

Great, thanks! Will make space for it this weekend then.

las
04/03/2016, 11:03 AM
I agree with other posters..... The price is the limiting factor. I am not disconnecting my skimmer. So, it replacing my skimmer isn't a valid argument for me. Also, having to dose nitrate to raise it up makes absolutely no sense to me since lowering nitrate and phosphate is the whole point of this thing.

Then u have nitrate and phosphate swings when you start out in your tank that can wipe out your SPS. I don't know, I think I'll just keep my refugium how it is and not chase numbers and trust in my natural system. Why does everything need to be put on steroids in this hobby?

Volcano1
04/03/2016, 11:17 AM
I'm still having issues growing cheato. I restocked a few weeks ago and it pretty much crashed again. It looks like light tube is getting coated with slim and not letting light though.

maxxII
04/03/2016, 08:31 PM
I agree with other posters..... The price is the limiting factor. I am not disconnecting my skimmer. So, it replacing my skimmer isn't a valid argument for me. Also, having to dose nitrate to raise it up makes absolutely no sense to me since lowering nitrate and phosphate is the whole point of this thing.

Then u have nitrate and phosphate swings when you start out in your tank that can wipe out your SPS. I don't know, I think I'll just keep my refugium how it is and not chase numbers and trust in my natural system. Why does everything need to be put on steroids in this hobby?


As I stated in the very beginning of this thread, I was unable to get a handle on high PO4 levels, let alone NO3 levels using all other methods,(refugium, gfo, massive regular water changes, bio pellets). Once I started using the ARID, my PO4 levels got lowered with a quickness.


No one who has an ARID is advocating one as being essential to reef keeping. Rather, we're explaining why they're effective in our systems and why they may be useful to others.

If you can maintain ideal NO3 & PO4 levels in your system without it, why would you change what works?

An ARID is NOT a refugium. It is an Algae Remidiation Illuminated Device. It's purpose is nutrient export via optimized chaeto growth. If you can manage the nutrients in your tank without an ARID, I wouldnt suggest changing anything.

IMO/IME, this is just another way of skinning a cat. It costs more to start, but takes up less space than a "normal" refugium or ATS system.


A "normal" refugium and/or ATS is less expensive to start, takes up more space, and will most likely be a pod factory.

Each has it's pro's and cons.

SantaMonica
04/03/2016, 09:56 PM
Some stuff for scrubbers, which some of which applies here::

If you are starting a new tank, then the obvious difference is that a scrubber gives you the option of not having a fuge at all because an upflow scrubber can be placed on top of, in, or behind, the display. There are other uses for a sump/fuge of course, but we'll only cover the filtration concerns here.

A not-so-obvious difference is that a scrubber, if run together with a fuge with macros, will kill the macros even though the macros are much larger. This is because the scrubber thinks the macros are nuisance algae. Some people do run both together without killing the macros, but this is just because their scrubber is not strong enough, and actually the macros might even be slowing down the scrubber because the scrubber thinks it has to remove the macros, along with the nutrients in the water and the nuisance algae in the display. However if this works for them, good.

But assuming you have to decide on either a sump/fuge or a scrubber (not both)...

o Filtration with algae is proportional photosynthesis, which is proportional to Light X Air Water Turbulence Flow X Attachment. Meaning, stronger light grows more algae; stronger air/water interface turbulence grows more algae; and stronger attachment lets more algae grow without it detaching and floating away. A scrubber is thus designed to maximize Light, Flow, and Attachment.

o The main problem with macros in a refugium is the self-shading that the macros do. Any part of the macro which is not directly in front of the light at any moment is not filtering. And any macro inside of a "ball" of macro (like chaeto) is self-shaded all the time. Only the surface macro that is directly in front of the light is doing any real filtering. A scrubber is designed to have all the algae in front of the light at all times. Rotating the macro does not solve the problem, because the time that the macro is rotated away from the light is time that the macro is not filtering. This is why it takes a much larger size of chaeto to do the same filtering as a scrubber.

o Self-flow-blocking is another problem of macros in a refugium, for the same reason as light-blocking. And the thicker the "ball" of macro, the worse the flow-blocking.

o Particle trapping is another result of a ball of macro. These particles need to cycle back around to feed the corals, but instead they get trapped in the macro and they rot, and in doing so they block even more flow and light.

o With a scrubber, there is very little water standing in the way of the light. Also, the light is (or should be) very close to the scrubber... 4 inches (10cm) or less. The power of light varies with the inverse square of the distance, so going from 8" to 4" actually gives you 4X the power, not 2X. And the nutrient removal power of algae is proportional to the power of the light, because it's the photosynthesis that is doing the filtering.

o Rapid flow across the algae in a scrubber gives more delivery of nutrients, compared to the slow moving water in a fuge. Filtering is proportion to nutrient flow.

o The turbulence of water moving over the sections of algae in a scrubber help to remove the boundary layer of water around the algae. This boundary layer slows the transfer of metabolites in and out of the algae. There is no turbulence in a fuge (if there were, you'd have waves and bubbles). The interface between the air and water is what provides the most turbulence and boundary layer removal; there is no air/water interface in macros.

o Scrubbers do not let food particles settle like a refugium does; most particles flow right out of the scrubber.

o Scrubbers do not (if cleaned properly) release algal strands into display, like chaeto does.

o Scrubbers do not go sexual, like caulerpa can.

o Scrubbers do grow lots of pods; more than was previously thought, especially if not cleaned with freshwater.

o Scrubbers don't, obviously, provide a place for snails and crabs, etc.

However, if you already have a sump with an empty compartment, and you don't mind using all of it and putting a light over it, then maybe it's easier and cheaper to try macros first.

JB NY
04/04/2016, 08:14 AM
I agree with other posters..... The price is the limiting factor. I am not disconnecting my skimmer. So, it replacing my skimmer isn't a valid argument for me. Also, having to dose nitrate to raise it up makes absolutely no sense to me since lowering nitrate and phosphate is the whole point of this thing.

Then u have nitrate and phosphate swings when you start out in your tank that can wipe out your SPS. I don't know, I think I'll just keep my refugium how it is and not chase numbers and trust in my natural system. Why does everything need to be put on steroids in this hobby?

Price is definitely a consideration when buying into the system. Some people continue to run their skimmers, others disconnect it. ARID doesn't require you to remove the skimmer, but many times you can if you want.

The whole idea of dosing Nitrates is a new one, so many people are not comfortable with doing this. The reef community has always been told to keep N and P as low as possible, but many people, especially those of us keeping SPS have found that you need small amounts of both N and P in your system for the corals to look their best. This is where dosing nitrates is key.

Many people use GFO and carbon dose. Both of these methods are targeted at two areas, carbon dosing to lower Nitrates and GFO to lower Phosphates. If that is all you have ever used you will be a little confused at to how N and P reduction work outside of these methods.

When using methods such as algae to remove N and P from the system, they can only be removed if there is enough of both of them in your water. NO3 and P04 are consumed in a ~16:1 ratio. So when there is not enough N the bacteria can not consume the P.

Having 0 nitrates means that you cannot get phosphates out anymore, you have a nitrate limited system. Conversely, having 0 phosphates means you cannot get nitrates out any more, you are phosphate limited. This is why you see so many reefers with 0 nitrates and rising phosphates that force them to use more and more GFO. There is no longer enough nitrates in the tank to remove the excessive phosphates and you start to see your P go up. Adding the nitrates in this situation allows the bacteria to continue to consume P which will drive the Phosphate levels back down.

Hopefully this makes more sense. FWIW I have been dosing nitrates for well over a year, and this makes for a very stable system.

Fraxinus
07/31/2016, 08:49 PM
I coughed up the cash for the nano arid, however it is still sitting on a shelf in my garage. I've run skimmer free for the short life of my 8 month old system. Always registering 0 nitrates and 0.15 PO4. My fuge setup was originally a 1/2" layer of crushed coral with some liverock rubble and algae thrown in. It was getting a lot of detritus build up and I was frustrated with PO4 problems so I set out to make some change. The same time I ordered my ARID, I read this article (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=969713) and cleaned and reorganized my fuge to this duplex setup while waiting a month for my new equipment. This setup addresses many issues with macro algae that SantaMonica brings up. I also started dosing sodium nitrate (.5ppm nitrate daily) based on what I learned in this article (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210947). My chaeto started growing like mad. In one week my PO4 dropped to .02 and has consistently registered 0.00-0.02 on my Hanna ulr for the last month. I have no doubt the ARID would grow my chaeto, but it's easier to harvest in my open fuge and I'm scared to mess with what's working.

A few of my acros freaked out from the abrupt change in nutrient levels, but my deep water acros didn't miss a beat. Most of my lps perked up. I decided to double down on this moment of change and swapped my Kessil 700 for t5 since I've already started experiencing shadowing symptoms. I'll update in a few months.

reefkiter
08/29/2016, 03:41 AM
Mine is the C30 what is yours?
How much lt/H is the flow?

JB NY
08/30/2016, 07:10 AM
About 2000 liter per hour.

reefkiter
09/27/2016, 03:23 AM
In your opinion, is it better to have (in order) chaeto reactor  skimmer  return pump (than putting the outlet of the chaeto reactor near the inlet of the skimmer) or chaeto reactor lined up to skimmer  return pump?
Are there difference if the reactor water is treated by the skimmer or is it better if goes directly in the tank?

maxxII
09/27/2016, 03:36 AM
I dont think it really matters since the ARID pulls PO4 that your skimmer cant touch.

I can see running your Calcium Reactor effluent into your reactor, but other than that, I cant see it making a difference where it's placed in relation to your skimmer or return pump.

JB NY
09/28/2016, 12:17 PM
About six months ago I moved my ARID so it received the run off from my DT first, from there the water goes to my frag tank then the skimmer then to the return pump. I used to have the water go through the DT into my frag tank, then skimmer and ARID before going back to the DT. The reason I made the change was because the frag tank (with no fish) would get algae in it. After the change the frag tank has way less algae than it did. YMMV

petemichelle
12/28/2016, 01:21 AM
what kind of test kid are you guys using to test for boron? what is your target for boron and how do you supplement it if low?

how do you guys clean your arid reactor? vinegar? muriatic acid, what percentage and what method, soak, run solution through with pump? how often?

i just set mines up 4 days ago, need advice, don't want to screw this up...

I switched from a sump system with chaeto because I was getting a lot of long hair algae and it was choking the chaeto. I put a emperor aquatic uv sterilizer in front of the arid hoping to kill any water born algae before it gets into the reactor. will post outcome...

Maximus
03/03/2017, 02:40 PM
Any updates on this? I just bought a used 18" one and would love some tips and to see how they've been doing over the long haul. Thanks.

maxxII
03/03/2017, 05:34 PM
what kind of test kid are you guys using to test for boron? what is your target for boron and how do you supplement it if low?

how do you guys clean your arid reactor? vinegar? muriatic acid, what percentage and what method, soak, run solution through with pump? how often?

i just set mines up 4 days ago, need advice, don't want to screw this up...

I switched from a sump system with chaeto because I was getting a lot of long hair algae and it was choking the chaeto. I put a emperor aquatic uv sterilizer in front of the arid hoping to kill any water born algae before it gets into the reactor. will post outcome...

I use the Salfert Boron test kit. It's been awhile since I checked it and it was at approximately 4.5 ppm which is within parameters.Borax (The detergent additive) is what you use to raise boron levels. I was surprised when Tristan (Pax Bellum CEO) suggested that...but I've used it once before to raise it up a little with no issues. I've only had to clean out my reactor twice in the soon to be three years I've had it, and I soaked it vineager (run through the feed pump into a bucket to recirculate through the reactor). I have had hair algea start growing inside the reactor before, which killed off the cheato, required shutting down, scrubbing with a tooth brush, and restarting. And I've had cyano start up inside the reactor which will kill off chaeto, so I just go lights out on the reactor for 3 days to kill off the cyano. No issues.

How is the UV working?

Any updates on this? I just bought a used 18" one and would love some tips and to see how they've been doing over the long haul. Thanks.

I'm the OP of this thread, and in April, I will have had my reactor running for 3 years. It works great, and as mentioned before, has had to be shut down due to either hair algae growth or cyano growth inside the reactor.

My reactor has been trouble free for the most part. I'm seeing some heat/stress cracks in the light tunnel of my reactor where the light core sits. Havent contacted Pax Bellum about it yet because I work a rotating shift and I'm on midnights right now and I keep forgetting to speak to them about it to see what (if anything) should be done about it. It's still water tight, no leaks and no issues, just aesthetically not very pretty, but it sits inside the reactor I use to grow algae....so I dont know how pretty it should be and I dont really see it anyway...

JBNY has had his reactor longer than mine, but I'm still happy with it over all, and feel it was a good purchase.

locito277
03/03/2017, 06:00 PM
I use the Salfert Boron test kit. It's been awhile since I checked it and it was at approximately 4.5 ppm which is within parameters.Borax (The detergent additive) is what you use to raise boron levels. I was surprised when Tristan (Pax Bellum CEO) suggested that...but I've used it once before to raise it up a little with no issues. I've only had to clean out my reactor twice in the soon to be three years I've had it, and I soaked it vineager (run through the feed pump into a bucket to recirculate through the reactor). I have had hair algea start growing inside the reactor before, which killed off the cheato, required shutting down, scrubbing with a tooth brush, and restarting. And I've had cyano start up inside the reactor which will kill off chaeto, so I just go lights out on the reactor for 3 days to kill off the cyano. No issues.



How is the UV working?







I'm the OP of this thread, and in April, I will have had my reactor running for 3 years. It works great, and as mentioned before, has had to be shut down due to either hair algae growth or cyano growth inside the reactor.



My reactor has been trouble free for the most part. I'm seeing some heat/stress cracks in the light tunnel of my reactor where the light core sits. Havent contacted Pax Bellum about it yet because I work a rotating shift and I'm on midnights right now and I keep forgetting to speak to them about it to see what (if anything) should be done about it. It's still water tight, no leaks and no issues, just aesthetically not very pretty, but it sits inside the reactor I use to grow algae....so I dont know how pretty it should be and I dont really see it anyway...



JBNY has had his reactor longer than mine, but I'm still happy with it over all, and feel it was a good purchase.



Do you happen to know up to what max size system they make reactors for?


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maxxII
03/03/2017, 06:43 PM
They are being used on Joe Yaiullo's 20K gallon system at the Long Island Aquarium...

I believe there are several of the larger ones daisy chained together for the Atlantis Aquarium.

Contact Pax Bellum directly for confirmation...But I got the above information directly from Tristan, who stated he used to work for Joe prior to starting Pax-B.

IIRC, JBNY went with his reactor on Joe Yiaullo's reccomendation.

Maximus
03/04/2017, 12:00 PM
I use the Salfert Boron test kit. It's been awhile since I checked it and it was at approximately 4.5 ppm which is within parameters.Borax (The detergent additive) is what you use to raise boron levels. I was surprised when Tristan (Pax Bellum CEO) suggested that...but I've used it once before to raise it up a little with no issues. I've only had to clean out my reactor twice in the soon to be three years I've had it, and I soaked it vineager (run through the feed pump into a bucket to recirculate through the reactor). I have had hair algea start growing inside the reactor before, which killed off the cheato, required shutting down, scrubbing with a tooth brush, and restarting. And I've had cyano start up inside the reactor which will kill off chaeto, so I just go lights out on the reactor for 3 days to kill off the cyano. No issues.

How is the UV working?



I'm the OP of this thread, and in April, I will have had my reactor running for 3 years. It works great, and as mentioned before, has had to be shut down due to either hair algae growth or cyano growth inside the reactor.

My reactor has been trouble free for the most part. I'm seeing some heat/stress cracks in the light tunnel of my reactor where the light core sits. Havent contacted Pax Bellum about it yet because I work a rotating shift and I'm on midnights right now and I keep forgetting to speak to them about it to see what (if anything) should be done about it. It's still water tight, no leaks and no issues, just aesthetically not very pretty, but it sits inside the reactor I use to grow algae....so I dont know how pretty it should be and I dont really see it anyway...

JBNY has had his reactor longer than mine, but I'm still happy with it over all, and feel it was a good purchase.

Thanks Maax. I just ordered a MJ 900 to go with the reactor. I think I will run it for 6-8 hrs, reverse cycle at first. Wish me luck!

maxxII
03/04/2017, 06:48 PM
Your tank is approximately 90 gallons. My system is currently approximately 170 gallons.
We have the same reactor.
I dont know what your fish load is, but mine is heavier than I've ever had before. I'm running the reactor on a reverse light cycle for 12 hours at a stretch. According to Tristan, you dont want to go more than 18 hours since that causes issues for the chaeto.

Start short time frames and bounce up from there to see what your levels are.

I used a Maxi jet 900 initially, but then went up to a Maxi jet 1200. It appears to be enough, but I havent done the math to figure out the flow through rate of the reactor.

Maybe next waterchange...

Maximus
03/05/2017, 11:59 AM
Good points. My bio load is low now as I only have 6 small fish. I will definitely start slow and ramp it up as my bioload increases. Are you still dosing nitrates? If so, what brand? Thanks again.

maxxII
03/05/2017, 05:12 PM
I'm no longer dosing KNO3 since I've increased my fishload and feedings. I was dosing this: http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/potassium-nitrate.html according to their directions.

What are your tank parameters at right now?

Maximus
03/06/2017, 12:58 AM
Sorry I'm late to reply, busy day. My current parameters are Ca: 440, Alk: 9.5dkh, Mg: 1500, and I have no idea what my nitrate levels are. I'm guessing nitrate is under 5 for sure.

pecan2phat
03/07/2017, 08:03 AM
My reactor has been trouble free for the most part. I'm seeing some heat/stress cracks in the light tunnel of my reactor where the light core sits. Havent contacted Pax Bellum about it yet because I work a rotating shift and I'm on midnights right now and I keep forgetting to speak to them about it to see what (if anything) should be done about it. It's still water tight, no leaks and no issues, just aesthetically not very pretty, but it sits inside the reactor I use to grow algae....so I dont know how pretty it should be and I dont really see it anyway...


I've spoken to Tristan about the light tubes and crazing stress cracks, he explained this as normal wear and tear and occurs due to thermal cycling especially at the cold hot gradient found at the lid and that the polycarbonate tube should be replaced every 8 months. :eek2:
Also stated that he has not seen a polycarbonate tube fail in 2+ years due to these crazing stress cracks.
Tristan states that the polycarbonate used is the best alternative with a 220F working temperature. The only down side is it has a limited service life.
I was not comfortable with the cracks so I had mine replaced and threw the old tube in the attic as an emergency spare.

I've also had a power supply fail on an E24 after 14 months and have had to replace that also. New PS was a MeanWell, much better then the China branded OEM.
My C30 that was bought on the same day but had a MeanWell PS so don't know why the E24 came with a cheaper PS. :hammer:

Maximus
03/07/2017, 09:56 AM
Warren, may I ask how much you paid for a new light tube?

pecan2phat
03/07/2017, 10:38 AM
The light tube for the C30 was $39.99 + shipping. Not sure if the smaller models would be much cheaper.

Maximus
03/07/2017, 10:56 AM
Ahh, not too expensive. Thanks.

extendedmango
03/08/2017, 12:04 PM
Maxll I'm thinking swiching my lightly stocked reefer 250 with some soft corals to having a lionfish, one or two dwarf eels and other larger but compatible fish but I'm not sure my current set up handle the heavy bioload. Do you think one of these could help with this issue. Also, can you see having the arid in replacement of a skimmer working. Mine probably will require an upgrade soon so I would rather only purchase one expensive piece of equipment.


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extendedmango
03/08/2017, 12:05 PM
^^^^anyone else that has experience with the arid feel free to reply


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wildman926
03/08/2017, 12:54 PM
I run both an ATS (algae turf scrubber) and a chaeto reactor. The ONLY reason why I run both, is because my ATS's are slightly undersized, and it allows me to clean the ATS's once every two weeks. If I shut down my chaeto reactor, I have to clean the ATS's weekly. The hair algae always grows faster than the chaeto. In fact, I can hardly get my chaeto to grow due to this. I run Turbo Aquatics L2 scrubbers. It is the same cost as the ARID N18 (http://uniquecorals.com/pax-bellum-arid-n18-macroalgae-based-bio-absorption-filtration-system.html).

SantaMonica
03/08/2017, 03:23 PM
With enough scrubbing, then you don't need anything else, even in a high bioload system.

And yes, attached green hair algae will always out-perform chaeto, because chaeto has low illumination, and no attachment or air/water interface turbulence.

extendedmango
03/08/2017, 04:03 PM
So I should use a scrubber rather than an arid


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pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 10:26 AM
^^^^anyone else that has experience with the arid feel free to reply


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I have a similar sized tank (CadLight Artisan 70) and is IMO heavily stocked with 11 wrasses and 2 Watanabei angels, mix of LPS and softies. I started this tank last June and put an Arid E24 online at the same time during cycling without any skimmer.
Nitrates were easily handled and stayed between 0 to .02 (Salifert) but Phosphates needed to be controlled via GFO due to the fact that I do not dose Nitrates. My P04 got up to 2.75 ppm in 4 months and now I have it down to .27 ppm via GFO.
So in essence, Yes an Arid can zero out N03 from a heavy bio-load of feeding but cannot handle the resulting P04 unless you tinker and either dose N03 or what I do and use GFO.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/pecan2phat/IMG_3194.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pecan2phat/media/IMG_3194.jpg.html)

extendedmango
03/09/2017, 10:38 AM
I have a similar sized tank (CadLight Artisan 70) and is IMO heavily stocked with 11 wrasses and 2 Watanabei angels, mix of LPS and softies. I started this tank last June and put an Arid E24 online at the same time during cycling without any skimmer.

Nitrates were easily handled and stayed between 0 to .02 (Salifert) but Phosphates needed to be controlled via GFO due to the fact that I do not dose Nitrates. My P04 got up to 2.75 ppm in 4 months and now I have it down to .27 ppm via GFO.

So in essence, Yes an Arid can zero out N03 from a heavy bio-load of feeding but cannot handle the resulting P04 unless you tinker and either dose N03 or what I do and use GFO.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/pecan2phat/IMG_3194.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pecan2phat/media/IMG_3194.jpg.html)


Is the arid nano probably enough or should I stick to the e3? Oh and nice reef btw.


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Maximus
03/09/2017, 10:44 AM
Does anyone run any other macro other than chaeto within the reactor? I was thinking about doing a combo of chaeto, some red grape, and dragons breath. Good or bad idea?

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 11:12 AM
I added Dragon's breath to the bottom of the 3 chambers and don't think it's a great idea. Chaeto has grown 4x faster and the whole concept is a accelerated macro algae growth for nutrient removal.
I will be taking out the Dragon's breath on the next pruning or at possibly lowering the chamber space in half.

Maximus
03/09/2017, 11:15 AM
Do you feel that the light is too intense for red macros? My reactor is now online and boy is that light bright, even with the shade around the tube!

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 11:16 AM
Is the arid nano probably enough or should I stick to the e3? Oh and nice reef btw.


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You can definitely go down to the 18 based on the zero readings of N03 that I have gotten in the E24 since the reactor started up but not so sure of the sizes below the 18 if you plan on a heavy fish bio-load with related feedings.

Maximus
03/09/2017, 11:19 AM
Warren, how many hours are you running your Led's on the reactor? Are you running them at night only?

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 11:22 AM
Do you feel that the light is too intense for red macros? My reactor is now online and boy is that light bright, even with the shade around the tube!

Maybe but besides it's pretty aesthetics, it does not serve much purpose in the ARID, IMO.
Don't worry about the beacon, it'll die down once the Chaeto starts to grow in. I made a cardboard cutout just for the top that I use after pruning but take it back off after 2 weeks or so.

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 11:22 AM
ARID is on a 12 hour reverse cycle.

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 11:24 AM
Didn't feel that I needed the 14 hour recommended by Pax. (hour before & hour after main light cycle)

Maximus
03/09/2017, 11:41 AM
Ahh that makes sense as I just added a tiny bit of chaeto and it hasn't filled in. How often do you harvest your algae? How much do leave in the chamber after you harvest it? Sorry about all the questions.

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 01:36 PM
Upon initial seeding, I waited 3 months before pruning. Now I prune at about the 2 month mark. 1st time pruning, I took out about 2/3rds. Felt that was a bit much based on N03 test readings so now I prune roughly half.

Maximus
03/09/2017, 02:01 PM
Wow, 3 months? Seems like a long time. I have the 18" model and I wonder how long it will take to get full. LOL, it's probably going to be a long time for me too. My phosphates tested at .03 yesterday btw. No idea where nitrates are at. I need to buy a good test kit. Any recommendations on an accurate nitrate test kit?

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 03:01 PM
Been a Salifert guy for the last 13 years.

pecan2phat
03/09/2017, 05:14 PM
Sang,
Here's an example of why I am not going to put Dragon's breath back in. I just pulled the E24 for pruning:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/pecan2phat/IMG_3199%202.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pecan2phat/media/IMG_3199%202.jpg.html)

Maximus
03/09/2017, 05:36 PM
Wow, it looks like the dragons breath barely grew compared to the chaeto!

extendedmango
03/09/2017, 06:11 PM
Sang,
Here's an example of why I am not going to put Dragon's breath back in. I just pulled the E24 for pruning:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/pecan2phat/IMG_3199%202.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pecan2phat/media/IMG_3199%202.jpg.html)



That thing is amazing! I'm probably going to get the n 18. You should email pax bellum with ur questions maximus. Tristan replies super quick and was fairly helpful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

robbous
03/11/2017, 07:33 AM
Anyone have photos of their reactor with the co2 calcium reactor attachment hooked up? i want to add this to mine and honestly not sure how its attached via the quick disconnects

Maximus
03/14/2017, 12:24 AM
After 5 days, it looks like it's working!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/sanglee24/Mobile%20Uploads/A5979E2E-4C93-491D-A089-DC7F9BD55955.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sanglee24/media/Mobile%20Uploads/A5979E2E-4C93-491D-A089-DC7F9BD55955.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/sanglee24/Mobile%20Uploads/1BED76DE-F8F0-4510-985A-885779BCBD4F.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sanglee24/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1BED76DE-F8F0-4510-985A-885779BCBD4F.jpg.html)

Vio
03/14/2017, 08:45 PM
I don't believe one second in that "Fancy" reactor, all you need is ......space....good light and water flow. I grow Chaeto by Lb. trim every month and some , i donate when i got a lot, yes PO4 is 0.00 to 0.06 . I got 300 Gal. display and 90 gal refuge.

Vio
03/14/2017, 08:55 PM
I don't believe one second in that "Fancy" reactor, all you need is ......space....good light and water flow. I grow Chaeto by Lb. trim every month and some , i donate when i got a lot, yes PO4 is 0.00 to 0.06 . I got 300 Gal. display and 90 gal refuge.

Vio
03/14/2017, 09:03 PM
I don't believe one second in that "Fancy" reactor, all you need is ......space....good light and water flow. I grow Chaeto by Lb. trim every month and some , i donate when i got a lot, yes PO4 is 0.00 to 0.06 . I got 300 Gal. display and 90 gal refuge.

SantaMonica
03/15/2017, 12:05 AM
Aren't scrubbers great.

Vio
03/15/2017, 05:17 PM
Aren't scrubbers great.
110% YES.
I cure 660 Lb. Pukani for 3 months, i will post a pic. what GREAT job A.Scrubber can do, after 3 months i got 0.00 PO4, just add. some Bacteria and run Bio Pellets , Nitrate also , zero.:)

Maximus
03/15/2017, 05:32 PM
I've had an ATS before and now the Pax Bellum, and I prefer the Pax Bellum!

Vio
03/15/2017, 07:47 PM
It all, how well you build the A.S. water flow, spectrum light, screen etc. hard to believe one flower bet the Garden, in my opinion.

pecan2phat
03/19/2017, 05:21 AM
Anyone have photos of their reactor with the co2 calcium reactor attachment hooked up? i want to add this to mine and honestly not sure how its attached via the quick disconnects

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/pecan2phat/08289_Pax-Bellum_A.R.I.D_C30_Pvc_4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/pecan2phat/media/08289_Pax-Bellum_A.R.I.D_C30_Pvc_4.jpg.html)

maxxII
03/27/2017, 08:59 AM
I don't believe one second in that "Fancy" reactor, all you need is ......space....good light and water flow. I grow Chaeto by Lb. trim every month and some , i donate when i got a lot, yes PO4 is 0.00 to 0.06 . I got 300 Gal. display and 90 gal refuge.

Wanna know how I know you didnt read the thread? :rolleye1:

Nowhere in this this thread do I or anyone else state that you "NEED" this "Fancy" reactor to be successful.

I stated that it works for me, and that I had some space issues and that is why I went with this reactor. Since I purchased this, other manufacturers have started selling their brand of Algae reactors, and we also have Santa Monica posting here who sells ATS systems pointing out that there are many other ways to accomplish the goal of nutrient export. I'm not knocking SM or anyone else's product in anyway. There are many ways to skin a cat, (so to speak) and I started this thread to document a way I had not seen much information about.

I've stated a few times on this thread and on others about algae reactors that they are not the "ONE and ONLY" solution. If you have the space, a traditional Fuge may work better. If you're space limited, the ARID, or something along those lines, (SM sells compact ATS designs as well) might be something to check out.

I dont work for Pax Bellum, or Santa Monica. I'm just sharing what I've found is working for me, in my space limited set up.

If that offends you, go elsewhere. No one is forcing you to post in this thread.

Now, if you want to contribute to the conversation, I have no issues with that...

Vio
03/27/2017, 04:58 PM
"My system was approximately 250 gallons consisting of a 120 gallon display, a 58 gallon display, a 40 breeder frag tank, all plumbed into a 75 gallon tank used as a common/shared sump containing about 50 gallons."

"I’d been running a bio pellet reactor for the past 3 years…didn’t do anything. Seriously.
The pellets tumbled, I saw no change in my system. I’ve still got the original pellets sitting in the reactor from when I first set it up 3 years ago."

"I tried lanthanum chloride with minimal results…sure phosphate was temporarily lowered, but washing filter socks every two days and scraping the annoying white film off the glass from the LC got to be ridiculous."

" Old Pukani rock was removed from the system, and new base rock was procured from BRS and Marco Rocks."

"I would try and run a refugium and had no luck…..I either didn’t get enough flow through it or I wasn’t able to keep the chaeto rolling so that it didn’t brown out on the bottom."

So, NO space , but you got 250 Gal. system (few tanks)
You , just confuse ppl. looks like nothing works except "Fancy" reactor, you need to Know, how to run Bio-Pellets, how to balance the B.P reactor, how to cure Pukani Rocks, how to grow Chaeto (NO need to rolling) so , I will pass this thread , waste of time, NOT even funny.

Maximus
03/27/2017, 05:06 PM
"My system was approximately 250 gallons consisting of a 120 gallon display, a 58 gallon display, a 40 breeder frag tank, all plumbed into a 75 gallon tank used as a common/shared sump containing about 50 gallons."

"I’d been running a bio pellet reactor for the past 3 years…didn’t do anything. Seriously.
The pellets tumbled, I saw no change in my system. I’ve still got the original pellets sitting in the reactor from when I first set it up 3 years ago."

"I tried lanthanum chloride with minimal results…sure phosphate was temporarily lowered, but washing filter socks every two days and scraping the annoying white film off the glass from the LC got to be ridiculous."

" Old Pukani rock was removed from the system, and new base rock was procured from BRS and Marco Rocks."

"I would try and run a refugium and had no luck…..I either didn’t get enough flow through it or I wasn’t able to keep the chaeto rolling so that it didn’t brown out on the bottom."

So, NO space , but you got 250 Gal. system (few tanks)
You , just confuse ppl. looks like nothing works except "Fancy" reactor, you need to Know, how to run Bio-Pellets, how to balance the B.P reactor, how to cure Pukani Rocks, how to grow Chaeto (NO need to rolling) so , I will pass this thread , waste of time, NOT even funny.

Oh geeze.:uhoh2:

maxxII
03/27/2017, 05:49 PM
"My system was approximately 250 gallons consisting of a 120 gallon display, a 58 gallon display, a 40 breeder frag tank, all plumbed into a 75 gallon tank used as a common/shared sump containing about 50 gallons."

"I’d been running a bio pellet reactor for the past 3 years…didn’t do anything. Seriously.
The pellets tumbled, I saw no change in my system. I’ve still got the original pellets sitting in the reactor from when I first set it up 3 years ago."

"I tried lanthanum chloride with minimal results…sure phosphate was temporarily lowered, but washing filter socks every two days and scraping the annoying white film off the glass from the LC got to be ridiculous."

" Old Pukani rock was removed from the system, and new base rock was procured from BRS and Marco Rocks."

"I would try and run a refugium and had no luck…..I either didn’t get enough flow through it or I wasn’t able to keep the chaeto rolling so that it didn’t brown out on the bottom."

So, NO space , but you got 250 Gal. system (few tanks)
You , just confuse ppl. looks like nothing works except "Fancy" reactor, you need to Know, how to run Bio-Pellets, how to balance the B.P reactor, how to cure Pukani Rocks, how to grow Chaeto (NO need to rolling) so , I will pass this thread , waste of time, NOT even funny.

Ok.
Good bye.

maxxII
04/16/2017, 12:36 PM
Here is a Marine Depot video showing how one can DIY an algae reactor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHB1xbOqCRo

SantaMonica
04/17/2017, 08:51 PM
I wish they's use more red light, like the brs vid does.

jeremy-40
04/29/2017, 08:29 AM
Due to how efficiently these reactors pull N and P. I wonder what the effects they are having on good nitifying bacteria that's already in our tanks and what the long term effects will be??

maxxII
04/29/2017, 12:51 PM
I've been using it for 2 years now (Thread is two years old today), and havent noticed any issues with my system that could be attributed to bacterial issues.

How would this be any different than an oversized refugium?

Emmanuel75
05/12/2017, 12:21 AM
After owning my reactor for almost a year I finally got my N12 up and running on my 75 gal. My PO4 is testing at 19 ppb or .058 ppm so I'm really looking forward to a consistent export. Nitrates are 0 on Red Sea so I'll have to dose for now. Wish me luck!

Emmanuel75
06/01/2017, 10:48 PM
So just an update, still trending at 0 on nitrates. PO4 has come down from 19 ppb to 3 ppb or .001 ppm! Nuisance algae in display has substantially reduced, I had a major calerpra and bryopsis outbreak in the tank which almost made me take down the tank. I harvested about a softball size out of the N12 yesterday which I may have pulled too much we'll see. I did purchase the kno3 used by others in this thread and have been dosing 5ml per day. So far the results are promising.



After owning my reactor for almost a year I finally got my N12 up and running on my 75 gal. My PO4 is testing at 19 ppb or .058 ppm so I'm really looking forward to a consistent export. Nitrates are 0 on Red Sea so I'll have to dose for now. Wish me luck!

maxxII
06/02/2017, 12:01 PM
You need to get nitrates up (at least measurable), or you will nitrate limited and the cheato wont be able to pull PO4 from the water.

Also be careful of having zero NO3 and zero PO4 in the system. That will kill animals.

Maximus
06/13/2017, 12:57 PM
Seriously awesome growth!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/sanglee24/Mobile%20Uploads/4244FB68-BFB2-49D6-8B3F-F2F3DD87A63D.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sanglee24/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4244FB68-BFB2-49D6-8B3F-F2F3DD87A63D.jpg.html)

Koestby86
08/13/2017, 03:04 PM
Great thread ! I just plumbed my ARID N24 on the 210 gallon. Between WC and running ROWA, which at times I find hard to tune in. My values rarely goes down to where I want. No3 at 25 ppm, and po4 at 0.15 ppm. So I really have high hopes for this to work :)

pecan2phat
08/13/2017, 03:23 PM
I'm using my E24 on a Cad70. Started the tank without a skimmer, been up for about 15 months now. LPS/softie and heavy fish load. N03 has always ranged from undetectable to .10 ppm. P04 is a different issue since I do not dose nitrates. I keep it in check with GFO despite the suggested practice from Tristan. It's been working for me. One thing I do recommend is to plumb in a DC pump where you can increase the flow in between prunings, the recommended MJ1200 or similar power head just doesn't cut it.

djbon
08/13/2017, 06:52 PM
Have some faith with bacteria. They are freely available, doesn't need other things except a house to live in, and food to thrive. I am running a successful mixed reef with wild SPS collection (over 60 species) and I only have this (picture attached) to take care of nutrients. And without WC as well...

http://i.imgur.com/yJl6uOo.jpg

Joe Kelley
08/14/2017, 05:49 AM
Nice! :spin1:
Seriously awesome growth!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/sanglee24/Mobile%20Uploads/4244FB68-BFB2-49D6-8B3F-F2F3DD87A63D.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sanglee24/media/Mobile%20Uploads/4244FB68-BFB2-49D6-8B3F-F2F3DD87A63D.jpg.html)

saltywet
09/06/2017, 09:30 PM
Can you adjust flow rate in the reactor to control NO3 and P04?

pecan2phat
09/07/2017, 06:32 AM
Can you adjust flow rate in the reactor to control NO3 and P04?

You would adjust the photoperiod vs the flow rate.

saltywet
09/07/2017, 09:55 AM
You would adjust the photoperiod vs the flow rate.

It sounds like it is challenging to just use photoperiod alone to maintain a low level of NO3 without dosing NO3 or maybe even PO4.

I guess what I am trying to figure out if I don't want to have 0 NO3 and 0 PO4; Can I also slow down flow rate besides photoperiod to try to have a low yet measurable level of NO3 and PO4 without dosing?

Thanks!

paal
11/14/2017, 03:34 PM
Joined the club! :D

Unfortunately, I received the N24 reactor many weeks later than expected, so the cheato I had ordered ahead of time and placed in my dark overflow box did not look good when I threw it in the ARID.
After 17 days however, two fist-sized slimy cheato clumps had turned into this:

https://vgy.me/Pnic7T.jpg



The stuff I threw away:

https://vgy.me/0OnGb2.jpg

biecacka
11/14/2017, 03:46 PM
Wow!
Very impressive

Corey

paal
11/16/2017, 01:50 PM
^ Exactly what I thought :D
There is a small "window" in the ARID so I knew I had some growth, but I did not think it would be this much.

Expensive toy, but I am super happy :)

ReefKeeper64
11/19/2017, 10:31 PM
I'm still waiting for my numbers to drop. I am getting growth, just seems slow. I rinsed and re spread what algae was in each chamber, both were about half full. A few more days and it will be two weeks, I'll take things apart and re rinse. Is everyone waiting for the chambers to fill before removing any cheato? I have been dosing the iron supplement for the past 3 weeks. Cheato doesn't seem brittle, but I will check boron levels and see if I need to supplement that as well. My biggest complaint so far is the cleaning and rest ringing of the algae is a little pita. I have been having issues with my right hand arm, so I volunteered my wife for this. :)


Does anyone know what this is all about? "My biggest complaint so far is the cleaning and rest ringing of the algae is a little pita"?? I'm guessing that the pax-bellum instructions state that you have to squeeze and rinse the cheato periodically? This seems odd.

paal
11/27/2017, 05:24 PM
I threw away a lot more than the recommended 2/3 when I did my first chaeto harvest.
Yesterday, 12 days later, the reactor was almost full again :)

Although maybe still not the recommended amount, I kept more algae this time, so I will probably do my next harvest after a week

https://vgy.me/GdK6Oo.jpg

https://vgy.me/Q56M6h.jpg



More random ARID-stoke: :fun4:

https://vgy.me/F2Wz9Z.png

https://vgy.me/S3nEqr.png

https://vgy.me/W8goFz.png

ReefKeeper64
11/27/2017, 09:54 PM
Looking good!

jbyrne
04/20/2018, 06:35 PM
I'd love to buy a used N18 off of anyone upgrading to the N24. Feel free to PM me.

saltwaterpicaso
01/21/2019, 04:07 PM
so is everyone still using there reactors and if so or not why

las
02/11/2019, 11:30 PM
I’m interested in why everyone is stripping all nitrate and phosphate, only to add it back in. Is it too difficult to dial it back so that there is some nitrate and phosphate in the system? It looks very impressive to me. The pics of Chaetomorpha growth is amazing. But, just seems like overkill if you have to dose nutrients back in after you just exported them.

CoralNerd
02/12/2019, 01:58 AM
I noticed a lot of them for sale recently.

paal
02/13/2019, 04:12 PM
Still run mine (N24). Works great.

I check nutrient levels about once every two-four weeks and simply adjust the photo-period to make sure i stay at roughly 5 NO3 and .02 PO4.
I do not dose anything except standard aquaforest balling.

At first I did run nutrients too low and had issues because of it. It was just so fun to see those numbers drop to zero in the beginning. :)

las
02/13/2019, 11:50 PM
Still run mine (N24). Works great.

I check nutrient levels about once every two-four weeks and simply adjust the photo-period to make sure i stay at roughly 5 NO3 and .02 PO4.
I do not dose anything except standard aquaforest balling.

At first I did run nutrients too low and had issues because of it. It was just so fun to see those numbers drop to zero in the beginning. :)

This seems like the perfect balance. I guess you need to have a good feel for your tank to do this.

paal
02/14/2019, 12:56 AM
I dunno… For me this has been pretty straight forward (after I learned the importance of avoiding 0/0 values :) )

I guess it becomes a bit harder if nitrates and phosphates are depleted in such a manner that only one of them deviates from your desired set-point. I guess this is typically when people would resort to dosing. From what I have read, algae reactors generally consume nitrates faster than phosphates (in relation to our desired values), and as a result, nitrate dosing is the most common solution. My reactor even came with a bottle of nitrates for this very reason, but I have not been required to use it yet.

Maybe I am just lucky to get that “perfect” NO3/PO4 removal ratio in my system, but I really do not think it would be hard to figure out how much nitrate to dose if nutrient levels would start to become unbalanced.

las
02/14/2019, 01:43 AM
Oh I see now.

Big E
02/14/2019, 05:17 AM
Still run mine (N24). Works great.

I check nutrient levels about once every two-four weeks and simply adjust the photo-period to make sure i stay at roughly 5 NO3 and .02 PO4.
I do not dose anything except standard aquaforest balling.

At first I did run nutrients too low and had issues because of it. It was just so fun to see those numbers drop to zero in the beginning. :)

Do you run a skimmer or just the reactor?

What's your livestock load?

Explain the photo-period........what's the duration now and how much do you have to change it to see the test numbers change.

paal
02/14/2019, 07:32 AM
Hi Ed,
Above info is a bit simplified. Let me try to be more specific:
Tanks is 40x30x20, roughly 100gallon.

4 chromis
2 percula clowns
2 flame hawkfish
2 pseudochromis fridmani
1 coris wrasse
1 fairy wrasse
1 filefish
1 purple tang

I have always been using a skimmer, and ever since I had a dino outbreak I have also used a 55W UV sterilizer. Outbreak was a little over a year ago, and it was when my nutrients dropped all the way to zero. At least the nitrates did (do not have a PO4 reading from that time) I assume this is what caused the dino outbreak, though I cannot say for sure.

I should add that I only measure nitrates myself (like I mentioned; every 2(lol not really)-4 weeks or so.) I submit water samples to aquaforest/marinlab for ICP-testing roughly 4 times/year, and that is where I get my PO4 readings. (I use salifert for both NO3 and PO4, so my own PO4 readings are useless / always “0” / I don’t bother doing them anymore. I should of course have gotten a Hanna checker or some other way to correctly measure PO4, but I am lazy and my current “system” works for now at least :) Even the Salifert NO3 is a bit hard to read correctly I think, but at least it gives a rough estimate.

So… I simply adjust my reactor based on the NO3 alone, and so far both NO3 and PO4 stay within “ok” levels.
Again, I am lazy, and don’t write down my own measurements but I just logged in and checked my last 4 PO4-values from marinlab: (oldest reading is just over 1 year old) 0,0041 – 0,0151 – 0,0480 – 0,0240.
My NO3 readings in the last year have typically been in the 5-10 range. Never lower than 5, a few times maybe 20ish. (marinlab does not measure NO3, so I have no official data from them unfortunately. Would be neat to see the exact correlation.

When I said I adjust the photo-period of the reactor, that was a small lie said in order to keep things short and easy to understand :)
My lights are on for 12 hours every night and have been so for about a year. My current method of adjusting the nutrient export is simply harvesting and cleaning the reactor more frequently. I have it in series with the UV unit, so I actually have too little flow through the reactor for it to work optimally. But I really don’t require optimal, so all is good :) The problem though is that the low flow causes some detritus and “goo” to build up inside the unit. If I wait too long between each harvest I can clearly see that some of the cheato does not look perfect. (Note to self: clean the unit/measure NO3 TODAY :) )
So, when NO3 is on the higher side (10+) I simply have more focus on keeping the thing cleaner/harvesting more often. (roughly 2x/month vs 1x)

The ideal solution would probably be to have a dedicated pump for the reactor with higher flow. This would make for a healthier algae/less work when servicing the unit. Photo-period could then be adjusted in order to control export levels.

I have been planning to do this for quite some time, but I keep saying “next weekend” (as with SO many other things…)
The change is not required though: Everything is working perfectly fine the way it is, but it would make the overall maintenance easier.

Overall I guess I have a bit of a messy approach. Perhaps I should be more proactive. I used to do 10% weekly water changes super consistently, but lately that has been more like 10% monthly. This summer/autumn I waited close to 6 months. No major issues though, so…
Also, cabinet/sump used to be pristine wrt cabling etc.. the last year or so it’s gotten messy. I guess when things are working well I get more lazy…?


6ish month old tank pic / 1+ year old sump pic (before UV and some more vortechs etc...)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=10795&pictureid=78828

https://i.imgur.com/vmkPKkHh.jpg

travisstewart
02/14/2019, 10:39 AM
How do you keep the sand so clean lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

paal
02/14/2019, 10:42 AM
Siphon ;)

But that pic was taken not too long after new sand tbh. (Had removed old sand bed when i had a dino-outbreak)

travisstewart
02/14/2019, 10:43 AM
Looks clean!


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Big E
02/14/2019, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the detailed response:thumbsup:

SantaMonica
02/24/2019, 08:05 PM
Natural reefs have no measurable nutrients. You could just strive for that.