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View Full Version : Got a new fish! Quick Questions!


bruindave
05/03/2015, 10:50 PM
I got a new pearly jawfish. He seemed kind of active at the fish store. when i brought him home i tried to acclimate him using the drip method for 30 minutes starting from 6:30 PM to 7 PM tonight. temp is around 78, salinity is about 1.024.

he tried to jump out when i transferred him to use the drip method, but he never got out. i put him in my 10 gallon QT tank that has nothing more than salt water, heater, nano koralia powerhead, and some pvc elbows for him to hide in. for the hood i have egg crate, but an old t shirt covering the top just to make sure he can't get out if he tries to jump again.

he seems like he's breathing fast still and he also is curled up right next to the heater. am i suffocating him because of the shirt over the egg crate? is it normal that they're this stressed the first day? should i put an air stone in? this is my first fish so hopefully i'm doing it all right.

here's a pic of him curled up.

bruindave
05/03/2015, 11:00 PM
ok so another thought i just had was when i came home from dinner i turned on the lights to the room he was in. but when i looked at him he wasn't moving. did turning on the lights freak him out?

the powerhead i have slightly tilted up and is disturbing the top of the water, but not making bubbles. it's just making very light waves. is that enough to aerate the water?

pisanoal
05/03/2015, 11:22 PM
What salinity does the lfs run their fish system at? Rapid change in salinity is usually the culprit with new fish if acquired locally. If he spent a long time in the bag (12 hours or more) could be ammonia poisoning.

Sounds like you have plenty of water movement for aeration. Keep an eye on the ammonia in your qt tank. other then just try not to stress him anymore and hope for the best.

bruindave
05/03/2015, 11:30 PM
he spent only 30 minutes in the bag and then the drip acclimation. i believe the LFS also had about 1.025. he is currently is in an S shape next to the heater. he has slowed down his breathing it seemed, but i can't really tell.

silly question, but how do you tell how fast they should be breathing?

fishy888
05/04/2015, 12:08 AM
He may be stressed because there is nowhere to hide. The jawfish is trying to hide behind the heater it sounds like. They need a hiding spot to feel secure especially while acclimating to a new tank. The PVC may seem more like a predator's mouth to the fish. They like some rock to hide in.

bruindave
05/04/2015, 12:19 AM
He may be stressed because there is nowhere to hide. The jawfish is trying to hide behind the heater it sounds like. They need a hiding spot to feel secure especially while acclimating to a new tank. The PVC may seem more like a predator's mouth to the fish. They like some rock to hide in.

cool thanks for the feedback. is there anything i can do or just have him wait it out in the QT before i add him to the DT?

The DT will have rocks, 3 inch sand bed waiting for him... will set that up in the next couple days. live rock is cured now.

Dkuhlmann
05/04/2015, 02:29 AM
SO, you don't have an existing DT that's already been setup and running for say 6-8 weeks and gone through the nitrogen cycle? Are you really putting together a new tank after buying this fish? Or do you have an existing tank that you are going to transfer the lr, water etc over to?

gone fishin
05/04/2015, 08:34 AM
Next fish purchase you get match your QT water to the bag water. Find out ahead of time or check when you get the fish. Since your bag water and QT are now the same salinity, all you need to do is float the bag for temperature then drop the fish in the QT. Over the coming weeks you can slowly raise the QT to match the DT Salinity. I also like to use the seachem ammonia alert badges on my QT and have some prime, extra water on hand.

Your Jawfish likes to live and hang out in a burrow mostly. I would just keep an eye on him. FWIW I usually just keep new arrivals at ambient lighting, IMO it helps them stay relaxed.

I congratulate you for QT your fishes and once your DT is cycled he will be ready to go in. Good luck

Sk8r
05/04/2015, 08:37 AM
Get a piece of small gauge pvc pipe (1-inch) and put it in there. He's a burrower, with no sand to build in. Give him that to hide in. Fish go kind of catatonic when they sleep.

Note, he'll need about 3" of medium grade aragonite sandbed to make his burrow once he gets into his new home. Scattered tiny shell fragments near his build site will help him out.

oldbones
05/04/2015, 08:50 AM
Watching this thread with interest. I've got a new Blue Spot Jawfish in QT (day 3) and I'm nervous about his condition as well. I did bring home a small bag of crushed coral and rubble, and gave him a small pile of rocks to hide in. He will be spending a full 6 weeks in QT.

bruindave
05/04/2015, 09:27 AM
SO, you don't have an existing DT that's already been setup and running for say 6-8 weeks and gone through the nitrogen cycle? Are you really putting together a new tank after buying this fish? Or do you have an existing tank that you are going to transfer the lr, water etc over to?

the DT tank isn't setup yet, but should be today or tomorrow. I figured if he's in QT for the same amount of time it would be fine and right as he finished QTing the DT would be finished. was that a wrong assumption? the live rock is cycled in a tub already. i'm not getting coral for a long time b/c i want to make sure the fish are good first too.

Next fish purchase you get match your QT water to the bag water. Find out ahead of time or check when you get the fish. Since your bag water and QT are now the same salinity, all you need to do is float the bag for temperature then drop the fish in the QT. Over the coming weeks you can slowly raise the QT to match the DT Salinity. I also like to use the seachem ammonia alert badges on my QT and have some prime, extra water on hand.

Your Jawfish likes to live and hang out in a burrow mostly. I would just keep an eye on him. FWIW I usually just keep new arrivals at ambient lighting, IMO it helps them stay relaxed.

I congratulate you for QT your fishes and once your DT is cycled he will be ready to go in. Good luck

thanks! i know he likes to burrow, but i thought the curling up was kinda weird and the breathing fast. just worried me if i missed something in the researching.

yea i did the drip method for 30 minutes. i got the fish from vivid and they told me thirty minutes was enough. going for a hour would actually not be beneficial and be worse. i will do that for the DT tank once the time comes.

Get a piece of small gauge pvc pipe (1-inch) and put it in there. He's a burrower, with no sand to build in. Give him that to hide in. Fish go kind of catatonic when they sleep.

Note, he'll need about 3" of medium grade aragonite sandbed to make his burrow once he gets into his new home. Scattered tiny shell fragments near his build site will help him out.

yea there are two 2 inch PVC elbows in there (i guess they're way too big? maybe 1 inch would've been better). i thought he would've gone for those, but he's just hiding next to the heater, on the outside of the pvc, or out in the open. yea he'll have a 3 inch sandbed in the DT and i'll get some shell fragments for him too.


overall thanks for the tips everyone! I was just a little worried since he was stressed out last night and i wasn't sure if it was just first day stress or if i did something wrong that i didn't know about. this morning he seemed fine when i walked in. he was lined up straight and in the front corner of the tank... in the open though. when i got closer he did curl into an S again, but wasn't breathing fast immediately. so i'm going to assume that he was just stressed from the first day. would it help if i put a small container in there with sand for him to burrow in?

from what i understand i can now start feeding him after the first day of stress. is that right? i got some mysis shrimp. thanks again everyone!

gone fishin
05/04/2015, 09:39 AM
Yes you can feed the guy now. I would try a little bit at a time. You do not want to feed to much in the QT, think ammonia.

I have had some fishes that wanted nothing to do with the PVC. Swim all around it look in it but it just does not do it for them. You could try a cup of sand in there wit him. Just keep in mind that once your done to toss the sand.

Reeferside
05/04/2015, 10:40 AM
Next fish purchase you get match your QT water to the bag water. Find out ahead of time or check when you get the fish. Since your bag water and QT are now the same salinity, all you need to do is float the bag for temperature then drop the fish in the QT. Over the coming weeks you can slowly raise the QT to match the DT Salinity. I also like to use the seachem ammonia alert badges on my QT and have some prime, extra water on hand.

Your Jawfish likes to live and hang out in a burrow mostly. I would just keep an eye on him. FWIW I usually just keep new arrivals at ambient lighting, IMO it helps them stay relaxed.

I congratulate you for QT your fishes and once your DT is cycled he will be ready to go in. Good luck

Very nicely said

bruindave
05/04/2015, 12:30 PM
Yes you can feed the guy now. I would try a little bit at a time. You do not want to feed to much in the QT, think ammonia.

I have had some fishes that wanted nothing to do with the PVC. Swim all around it look in it but it just does not do it for them. You could try a cup of sand in there wit him. Just keep in mind that once your done to toss the sand.

ok thanks for the info. I was going to give him half a mysis shrimp cube tonight, but perhaps i'll do a quarter today and then see how he does and increase the amount of food as necessary if he can eat more.

Next fish purchase you get match your QT water to the bag water. Find out ahead of time or check when you get the fish. Since your bag water and QT are now the same salinity, all you need to do is float the bag for temperature then drop the fish in the QT. Over the coming weeks you can slowly raise the QT to match the DT Salinity. I also like to use the seachem ammonia alert badges on my QT and have some prime, extra water on hand.
Very nicely said

so just so this is completely spelled out for me.

what do you exactly mean by match the QT water to the bag water? I did a drip acclimation for 30 minutes and was told by vivid 30 minutes is the right amount of time. i figured drip acc would match the salinity (if at all different, it looked to be the same) and temp at the same time. should i have floated the container i put the jawfish in (I took him out of the bag for the drip acclimation), in the QT tank after the drip?

also if my QT has the same salinity as my DT is that wrong? They would both be at around 1.024-1.025.

lastly i asked if any water conditioners were really needed aside from just straight rodi water and some salt in another thread. i only got one response, but it seemed like it wasn't too necessary. so do i add a water conditioner to the rodi water and then mix? i have instant ocean marine conditioner, but haven't used it yet. should i add it to the QT? if i do use it, i assume i take out some water from the tank, add in the conditioner and then put the mixed water back in so that i'm not adding conditioner to the tank directly. sound like a good plan?

i'll try the ammonia badge so that i don't have to test the water all the time. I was just planning on doing 20% water changes every week.

thanks again for the help!

mitchrapp
05/04/2015, 12:42 PM
If you are using rodi water, then no water conditioner.

If you match your QT salinity to the LFS salinity, then there would be no need to drip acclimate, which will reduce stress. The longer the fish are in the bag, the more ammonia can build up. You would only need to match temp, which you can do by floating the unopened bag for 15-20 minutes. Once the bag is opened, toxic ammonia can build up in the bag.

You can then slowly over the course of days/weeks adjust the salinity of the QT to match the DT.

gone fishin
05/04/2015, 01:13 PM
so just so this is completely spelled out for me.

what do you exactly mean by match the QT water to the bag water? I did a drip acclimation for 30 minutes and was told by vivid 30 minutes is the right amount of time. i figured drip acc would match the salinity (if at all different, it looked to be the same) and temp at the same time. should i have floated the container i put the jawfish in (I took him out of the bag for the drip acclimation), in the QT tank after the drip?




also if my QT has the same salinity as my DT is that wrong? They would both be at around 1.024-1.025.

lastly i asked if any water conditioners were really needed aside from just straight rodi water and some salt in another thread. i only got one response, but it seemed like it wasn't too necessary. so do i add a water conditioner to the rodi water and then mix? i have instant ocean marine conditioner, but haven't used it yet. should i add it to the QT? if i do use it, i assume i take out some water from the tank, add in the conditioner and then put the mixed water back in so that i'm not adding conditioner to the tank directly. sound like a good plan?

i'll try the ammonia badge so that i don't have to test the water all the time. I was just planning on doing 20% water changes every week.

thanks again for the help!

Lets say you know your going to get a fish from the LFS, for example a pearly jawfish. You can call ahead to ask what they keep the salinity of their tanks at. They tell you it is at 1.020, Now you can set your QT water at 1.020 beforehand. You make the drive get your fish and when you get home all you need to do is float the bag for about 15 minutes to temp acclimate the fish, then drop him in the tank. Now over the coming weeks while your fish is in the QT you can slowly raise the salinity in the QT to match the DT. You can do this by using some saltwater for evaporation top off or WC's. Once your happy with the QT time and the fish is ready to go to the DT all you need to do is transfer the guy over to the Dt.

Setting your QT salinity to the bag water is especially helpful if you order online. In this instance call the vendor up and they should be more than happy to tell you. What happens in the fish bag is that while it is sealed up the fish go on about their business and ammonium is building up in the bag. This is not really harmful to the fish. However, once you get the delivery and open the bag to start the drip acclimation all that ammonium is being rapidly converted to ammonia. We all know ammonia is bad that is why folks that QT their fish will set the QT Tank salinity to match the bag water.

I hope that helps and is more clear.

As far as conditioners go you should not need any. But it is always wise to have some prime on hand for the QT, in the event of ammonia. Say your making up some water for a WC and you notice the ammonia is elevated. You can then just add some prime to the tank and not be rushed or panicked to get your saltwater made up. Good luck

bruindave
05/04/2015, 02:40 PM
If you are using rodi water, then no water conditioner.

If you match your QT salinity to the LFS salinity, then there would be no need to drip acclimate, which will reduce stress. The longer the fish are in the bag, the more ammonia can build up. You would only need to match temp, which you can do by floating the unopened bag for 15-20 minutes. Once the bag is opened, toxic ammonia can build up in the bag.

You can then slowly over the course of days/weeks adjust the salinity of the QT to match the DT.

ok that makes more sense. so last question then, after you temp acclimate do you just put the fish into the QT straight from the bag and dump the rest of the bag water?

Lets say you know your going to get a fish from the LFS, for example a pearly jawfish. You can call ahead to ask what they keep the salinity of their tanks at. They tell you it is at 1.020, Now you can set your QT water at 1.020 beforehand. You make the drive get your fish and when you get home all you need to do is float the bag for about 15 minutes to temp acclimate the fish, then drop him in the tank. Now over the coming weeks while your fish is in the QT you can slowly raise the salinity in the QT to match the DT. You can do this by using some saltwater for evaporation top off or WC's. Once your happy with the QT time and the fish is ready to go to the DT all you need to do is transfer the guy over to the Dt.

Setting your QT salinity to the bag water is especially helpful if you order online. In this instance call the vendor up and they should be more than happy to tell you. What happens in the fish bag is that while it is sealed up the fish go on about their business and ammonium is building up in the bag. This is not really harmful to the fish. However, once you get the delivery and open the bag to start the drip acclimation all that ammonium is being rapidly converted to ammonia. We all know ammonia is bad that is why folks that QT their fish will set the QT Tank salinity to match the bag water.

I hope that helps and is more clear.

As far as conditioners go you should not need any. But it is always wise to have some prime on hand for the QT, in the event of ammonia. Say your making up some water for a WC and you notice the ammonia is elevated. You can then just add some prime to the tank and not be rushed or panicked to get your saltwater made up. Good luck

that is crystal clear now! i appreciate the extra explanation. i guess i thought prime was the same as the instant ocean marine conditioner, but i guess not.

Thanks again everyone!

Sk8r
05/04/2015, 02:46 PM
I use my hand to extract the fish (if not poisonous) or invert. If you don't want to touch it, use exam glove.

gone fishin
05/04/2015, 02:54 PM
i guess i thought prime was the same as the instant ocean marine conditioner, but i guess not.

Thanks again everyone!

I see the confusion now, it is me :lolspin:. The IO marine conditioner is used for removing chlorine and such from tap water. The Seachem Prime will do that as well, it will also neutralize ammonia. I forget about the chlorine aspect since I am on well water and use RO/DI for many years. Sorry for the confusion.

bruindave
05/04/2015, 03:13 PM
I use my hand to extract the fish (if not poisonous) or invert. If you don't want to touch it, use exam glove.

ok then, i guess i'll just temp acclimate them next time (if i don't need to match salinity) and then put them into the tank. i thought you always had to drip acclimate, one guy at vivid told me i should.

I see the confusion now, it is me :lolspin:. The IO marine conditioner is used for removing chlorine and such from tap water. The Seachem Prime will do that as well, it will also neutralize ammonia. I forget about the chlorine aspect since I am on well water and use RO/DI for many years. Sorry for the confusion.

no worries! I didn't know either. i'll get some prime though, sounds much better.

and as always, thanks for all the knowledge and help!

Dundermifflin
05/04/2015, 06:54 PM
You also might want to darken the tank by painting the sides and back or taping a dark garbage bag around it. Those reflections and the constant movement of seeing people walk by can freak them out. I've had pretty good luck QT'ing fish with a dark tank and 2-3 pieces of 3" PVC (Elbow/T's) for them to hide in. 1.024 seems high from an LFS for purchase fish. Also, if running a FO display tank 1.024 seems on the higher side. I have really good luck at 1.020.

bruindave
05/05/2015, 12:22 AM
You also might want to darken the tank by painting the sides and back or taping a dark garbage bag around it. Those reflections and the constant movement of seeing people walk by can freak them out. I've had pretty good luck QT'ing fish with a dark tank and 2-3 pieces of 3" PVC (Elbow/T's) for them to hide in. 1.024 seems high from an LFS for purchase fish. Also, if running a FO display tank 1.024 seems on the higher side. I have really good luck at 1.020.

thanks for the help. I put cardboard all around the tank except for the front. hopefully that helps with him not getting spooked so much. b/c of that reason I decided to name him spooky... also since he kinda looks ghostly white.

yea maybe i heard wrong now that i think about it. i also didn't truly test the water in the bag myself now that i think about it. i just made assumptions... my mistake. i guess maybe i could lower the salinity until i actually do put some coral in.

bruindave
05/05/2015, 11:34 PM
so as an update. the jawfish seems to be doing pretty well. i guess it was just that he was freaked out the first day. he found some good hiding places behind the PVC and behind the heater. after 3 small feedings he already knows that when I'm there that means food.

how do I know this? he swam to the top of the tank and waited for food. i thought he was going to jump, so I was cautious. instead he was waiting for me to insert the feeder and give him some shrimp. he even got brave enough to swim up and try to bite the tip of the feeder where the shrimp came out. this is a smart guy... all in all i think he's ok for now.

now it's just waiting for his QT time to be done with. I may add in a container with some sand so that he can burrow somewhere. in the DT how deep of a sandbed would you guys say he needs? I thought initially he just needed 3 inches, but reading elsewhere suggests 5-7 inches. How much sandbed does a pearly jawfish really need then?

thanks again for all the help!

bruindave
05/07/2015, 02:09 AM
so now things might have gotten worse again... i'm not sure how to decipher the jawfishes behavior...

the jawfish was breathing hard again and i saw a spike in ammonia today so i changed the water. he was pretty lethargic, but gills seemed ok and he didn't change color or anything. just sat there and didn't move, sometimes just stopping and leaning to his side which worried me a lot. i think it was from over feeding. i fed 4 times between sunday and now b/c I wanted him to have a little more strength from the transferring.

I did a minor like 10% water change yesterday, on tuesday, and used some seachem prime. but today using the unreliable API kit... i got tests that showed the water was maybe up to 0.25 maybe slightly higher. after one 50% water change the ammonia still read around 0.25... so i did another water change of about 60%, but didn't fill it up all the way. now it reads 0.

so after 2 stressful water changes for both the jawfish and myself... i turn of the lights to calm him down. then he begins to swim to the top of the water. he's almost acting like he's eating from the surface and even tries a few jumps out. i'm really worried now b/c this is not normal behavior.

i think my first biggest mistake is that i didn't change enough water early enough. i have a 10 gallon tank and right now it is probably at 7 gallons full.

is there anything to do? i'm afraid he won't make it through the night... he still is breathing hard in the corner of the tank.

bruindave
05/07/2015, 02:48 AM
crap i just realized the first 5 gallon bucket i had mixed for over 24 hours with salt, but the 2nd bucket i did not... ummm.... shoot.

gone fishin
05/07/2015, 04:42 AM
What do you have for water movement? Hob filter, airstone, powerhead. I would also recommend a seachem ammonia alert badge. just place it in the tank and you can see at a quick glance if ammonia is present.

oldbones
05/07/2015, 08:15 AM
What's the SG in the tank now???

bruindave
05/07/2015, 08:38 AM
well he made it through the night... he is still breathing hard and is in the same spot that i left him in last night. the salinity is still the same at about 1.024 and yes i have an ammonia badge arriving tomorrow in the mail.

the water movement i have was a powerhead. i turned off the powerhead last night b/c it almost seemed like he couldn't even withstand the current last night. as the current carried him he got stuck in between some PVC and the wall. he was sideways and kind of upside down in that position so i turned off the powerhead so he could rest. i added the airstone now and turned on the powerhead again. he isn't being carried by the current anymore, but he is still weirdly biting the "air" per se. should i add live rock to help with the ammonia? i have more than enough cycling.

just tried to feed him and he did try a bite or two, but spit it all out right after eating.

am i just freaking out about nothing??? =P

bruindave
05/07/2015, 09:34 AM
What salinity does the lfs run their fish system at? Rapid change in salinity is usually the culprit with new fish if acquired locally. If he spent a long time in the bag (12 hours or more) could be ammonia poisoning. http://financehotela.com/yellow/images/106.gifhttp://loanwebfast.com/green/images/42.gif

i called again yesterday and i did in fact match their salinity. i did have some water from them in the end and tested it and it is indeed also ~1.024-1.025. fish was only in the bag for 30 minutes and then drip acclimated for 30 minutes on sunday afternoon.

oldbones
05/07/2015, 09:44 AM
I didn't see your answer regarding the aeration.

You might consider aiming your powerhead up more towards the surface. You'll still get some water movement throughout the tank, but you'll get much better oxygen levels if you get a good ripple going on the surface.

bruindave
05/07/2015, 09:48 AM
I didn't see your answer regarding the aeration.

You might consider aiming your powerhead up more towards the surface. You'll still get some water movement throughout the tank, but you'll get much better oxygen levels if you get a good ripple going on the surface.

sorry the powerhead is aimmed towards the surface and the air stone is going.

right now there is like 3 mysis shrimp floating around in there. he eats it then spits it out. about to leave for work.

oldbones
05/07/2015, 09:57 AM
I started this same process with a Blue Spot Jawfish about two days before you did. I brought him home Friday afternoon, 5/1. The first 36 hours he looked great. The next 48 hours, he would not eat, was lethargic and occasionally gasping.

I started to get nervous, and suspected possible flukes or other parasite, so I decided to do a fresh water dip. Nothing of note came off during the dip, so that was good news.

I also decided then to give him some decent sand and rubble substrate, since he'll be in this 10g for a good while yet.

By the 5th day, he started eating again and looked a good bit better. Started acting like a Jawfish. Day 6, he ate like a champ (gnawing on the end of the turkey baster!) then spent the night building a sweet burrow complete with doorway decorations.

The rest of the story, with pics, is here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2500107

bruindave
05/07/2015, 10:08 AM
I started this same process with a Blue Spot Jawfish about two days before you did. I brought him home Friday afternoon, 5/1. The first 36 hours he looked great. The next 48 hours, he would not eat, was lethargic and occasionally gasping.

I started to get nervous, and suspected possible flukes or other parasite, so I decided to do a fresh water dip. Nothing of note came off during the dip, so that was good news.

I also decided then to give him some decent sand and rubble substrate, since he'll be in this 10g for a good while yet.

By the 5th day, he started eating again and looked a good bit better. Started acting like a Jawfish. Day 6, he ate like a champ (gnawing on the end of the turkey baster!) then spent the night building a sweet burrow complete with doorway decorations.

The rest of the story, with pics, is here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2500107

reading your post... that sounds exactly like the first 4 days for me so far... maybe i am just freaking out for no reason. but the laying on his side and getting stuck upside down and not correcting himself isn't right... i don't see anything on him and he hasn't really changed color. he's just acting funny. hopefully by tonight or tomorrow he'll have more of an appetite again and will be normal. it's good to see that you've gone through almost the same things just a couple days earlier. hopefully that's just how jawfish start out... but only time will tell.

i added some live rock just in case to help with the ammonia in addition to the prime. i'll get some tupperware tonight and add in some sand for him to burrow.

he was gnawing at the end of the feeder too the 2nd day, but kind of stopped caring yesterday and today.

monitoring closely, but i'm at work now so can't do anything else until evening.

bruindave
05/07/2015, 10:02 PM
ok so he still seems like he's breathing a little hard, but not as bad. he's acting more normal i suppose in trying to hide from me or trying to jump out of the water all the time.

i guess i need to just chill out and see what happens next. i hope he's just fine and this is nothing.

oldbones
05/09/2015, 10:56 PM
How's your little buddy doing?

bruindave
05/10/2015, 03:16 AM
How's your little buddy doing?

so he was a little more active this morning, but still breathing hard. i did another 50-60% water change this morning, vacuumed most of the junk out, and even added a bowl with sand and live rock two nights ago. Ammonia seems great, all water parameters checked out. he ate a little more than normal this morning when compared to the last few days. and then i left for the day.

i came home just now expecting him to still be breathing hard... and he's stopped! He's very active right now and is curiously checking out different areas of the tank. He seems normal!

So I guess the jawfish acclimation time is just kind of like this... someone else private messaged me and told me that's how their jawfish was the first few days too. i'm happy and relieved that the jawfish looks more at peace with his surroundings now.

thanks for checking up! how's your jawfish doing?

bruindave
05/10/2015, 03:39 AM
ok so i just fed him some more. he eats about 6-8 mysis shrimp each feeding and then it seems like he just starts spitting out his food after that. that enough?

poo seems normal stringy black and he seems to have found the sand in the bowl with the live rock on top. he hasn't start to make a burrow yet.

oldbones
05/10/2015, 08:01 AM
Mine's doing good. He's been busy building a new burrow just about every day, I guess he hasn't found the PERFECT spot yet. Eats like a horse!

bruindave
05/12/2015, 01:00 PM
@oldbones alerted me to the fact that perhaps our jawfish have brooklynella. the description exactly dictates what my jawfish was doing a few days ago.

from the website: http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aabrooklynella.htm

Most similar symptomatically to Oodinium, this too is a parasite that primarily attacks the gills first. At the onset fish may scrap up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Fish become lethargic, refuse to eat, and colors fade, but the most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced.

he was breathing hard for a long time, didn't eat much, and was very lethargic. he was at the surface gasping for air and still does that in the mornings. he seems to have a bigger appetite though and isn't gasping as much.

seems like website suggest several differing things for how to treat it though... any ideas?

Sk8r
05/12/2015, 01:03 PM
Oh, my.
Test salinity. If you have to mix saltwater in a hurry, use a paint stirrer device with a power drill or a kitchen hand mixer. Mix till clear or as clear as you can get weighed against situation of fish. A small volume of good water is better than a large volume of bad water.

bruindave
05/12/2015, 01:15 PM
should i do a 100% water change??? I have enough salt water to do a 100% change tonight if needed, but then would that same tank be unusable??? would I have to dry it out?

Salinity has been 1.024 the whole time and i only just started to lower it to 1.023 only to save on salt as I have heard fish don't need that high of a salinity. Was even thinking of donig hyposalinity to treat the fish in case anything happens.

i don't see any mucus on his gills, but he is pearly white and it is quite hard to see if any mucus is building up on him in general... the only positive thing i might note is that he is eating more than before and he is not gasping as much, but still on the surface at times. i found it weird for a jawfish to be on the surface...

oldbones
05/12/2015, 02:37 PM
If it's Brook, will a water change help? Should he be thinking of medicating?

Whatever was going on with my Blue Spot, it got the better of him after 11 days.

I wish I had some idea, but the best I can come up with is the mysterious "blue spot disease", which, the best I can tell, is a made up name for an unknown but not uncommon condition. Although, some articles maybe point to Brooklynella.

Day 1 Brought fish home, acclimated and placed in qt, ate very little
Day 2 Ate better, looked ok
Day 3 No appetite, a bit listless, not looking great
Day 4 Wouldn't eat, had white spot on side of belly, breathing hard, lethargic. Had a dirty mucus layer. Did fresh water dip, no parasites noted.
Day 5 Looking better, appetite returning, starting to act normal.
Day 6 Fish is acting and looking perfect. Burrowing, eating, etc. Spot not noticeable.
Day 7 All is well, fish is looking great, eating like a horse.
Day 8 Nothing to report, all is well
Day 9 Fish acting a little "off", appetite starts to decline
Day 10 Barely interested in food, not moving around much, starting to breath heavy
Day 11 Fish wont eat, breathing heavy and 'coughing'. White spot has returned on side of belly, looking very poorly.
Day 12, fish is gone.


I really with I could understand what happened with him, was it treatable or avoidable. I scoured the net for information, and saw quite a few similar stories with the same symptoms, but no ID on the ailment. I couldn't find any stories with happy endings, some tried various treatments, but either lost the fish, or failed to update the story with progress past a certain point (assuming these fish were lost also).

The rest of my story here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2500107

oldbones
05/12/2015, 02:38 PM
Dave, how much circulation do you have in your QT? Airstone? Is the surface agitated?

I had a powerhead putting a good ripple on the surface, an oversized HOB filter running full tilt and an airstone running off and on, no help.

bruindave
05/12/2015, 02:44 PM
Dave, how much circulation do you have in your QT? Airstone? Is the surface agitated?

I had a powerhead putting a good ripple on the surface, an oversized HOB filter running full tilt and an airstone running off and on, no help.

I have a nano koralia powerhead breaking the surface of the water and an airstone going. i don't have a filter running, but change the water 50% every other day. i have an ammonia badge and have prime on hand just in case.

Sk8r
05/12/2015, 02:50 PM
Rapid breathing is also a characteristic of a fish exposed to ammonia, which will burn the gills. I would say put the fish in clean salt water and try to keep the water perfect and the fish fed.

gone fishin
05/12/2015, 02:55 PM
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

Brook is a very fast killer. A freshwater dip will help alleviate symptoms but formalin dips are a primary treatment. please see the link.

bruindave
05/12/2015, 03:08 PM
Rapid breathing is also a characteristic of a fish exposed to ammonia, which will burn the gills. I would say put the fish in clean salt water and try to keep the water perfect and the fish fed.

i think that's what i thought it was initially, but wanted to make sure. the swimming to the surface and swimming on it's side the first few days was not good.

i'll change the water more frequently if needed. i try to do two small feedings per day. I only do this because the jawfish starts spitting out food after about only a minute of eating and not the full 3 minutes others suggest.

bruindave
05/12/2015, 03:56 PM
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

Brook is a very fast killer. A freshwater dip will help alleviate symptoms but formalin dips are a primary treatment. please see the link.

yea that's from what i read, and also seems like what @oldbones went through unfortunately.

i'll try a freshwater dip. I have a small maybe quart sized container i'll use for the dip. is that enough? Where do I get something to raise the pH?

gone fishin
05/12/2015, 04:26 PM
Should be able to find a pH buffer at most LFS.

oldbones
05/12/2015, 04:48 PM
For a 5 minute dip, a medium sized mixing bowl from the kitchen is fine. I used one with a white bottom so I could see if anything came off the fish.

I had a bottle of PH Buffer that came in the pile o crap I got with my tank. Maybe 1/8 of a teaspoon was enough to get the PH quite close to the tank PH.

Honestly, the jawfish didn't seem to mind the fresh water one bit.

Biodork
05/12/2015, 06:57 PM
One more piece of advice to the OP for acclimating fish. You may also want to verify that the pH of the bag water and your QT are also the same. This is likely to be the case, but should be checked especially if all you have done is a temperature acclimation. The pH of the bag is likely to be low if you have received fish shipped from an online dealer. Increased CO2 in the bag from respiration will drop the pH. IMO, a sudden change in pH (which is on a log scale, a change of 1pH is 10x difference in H+/OH- ions) may be more detrimental than a sudden change in salinity. I have done many FW baths for SW fish to remove external parasites, but we always match the pH of the FW dip to the SW holding tank.

Best of luck with your new little buddy!