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View Full Version : Automatic Water Changes and Top off Questions


jason2459
05/26/2015, 11:10 PM
I'm currently using a dual head stenner pump for automatic water changes and it's worked great but going to be using later this summer for it's intended purpose and dose chemicals to a pool.

So, I have the opportunity to get a spectrapure solution for AWC and also need to replace a failed peristaltic pump for ATO.

I've got a reefkeeper controller with multiple float switches and air pressure switch which I had controlling a peristaltic pump for ATO pulling lime/kalk water out of a still reservoir into my sump. So, I'm just looking for a stand alone pump for that and looking at the LM3-MPM for that. What kind of tubing is suggested for this application? I see some comes with the pump but not sure how much and if it's enough for what I need?

For the AWC setup I see I need the LiterMeter III LM3-115 and and the LM3-WXM. Now I see the LMX-115 and even the LM3-MPM sold everywhere but the LM3-WXM Exchange Module keeps showing up as unavailable or even discontinued on other sites? Is this accurate? Is there something coming out to replace it?

And finally just a double check that I'm looking at all the right components.

Thanks in advanced.

FlyingFishSKYw
05/27/2015, 10:32 AM
Jason,
I am in the process of creating my AWC system using a dual head stenner pump. How has your experience been with it? I'm probably going to mount it in my laundry room where my water mixing station is. Is the Stenner loud?

I would probably go with the LiterMeter, but it runs on its own controller and I'm wanting to run everything through my Digital Aquatics Archon.

SpectraPure
05/27/2015, 10:48 AM
Jason,

The MPM comes with 12 feet of 1/4" poly tubing you can cut in two for a short-distance installation. You can, of course, add more tubing as needed.

The preferred AWC setup is the LM3-115, LM3-RPM, and LM3-TCM. Better to have the TCM shut both pumps off if there's a high-water condition than the WXM which only shuts off that pump.

FFish,

You can plug the LM3 power supply into your controller's power strip and control it anyway you want to. It will remember its settings even if the power is removed.

Support at SpectraPure

FlyingFishSKYw
05/27/2015, 06:47 PM
Will the RPM work without the LM3?
I was thinking I could have one by my fresh saltwater reservoir to fill and one by the sump for drain.

Via controller, sump RPM will turn on for a specified time to remove saltwater from system, then turn the fresh SW RPM to replenish- possibly tied to my ATO float switch to trigger it to stop.

Does that sound like it would work?

Also, shipping to Alaska shows "standard post" USPS. Is there an option for Priority Mail?

SpectraPure
05/27/2015, 07:04 PM
The RPM needs 12 volt power. If your controller does not provide it, get the LM3-MPM, which is an RPM with its own power supply.

Yes, that will work.

I assume we can ship Priority Mail. You will have to call our Sales Line at 1-800-685-2783 for special shipping requests.

Support at SpectraPure

jason2459
05/27/2015, 07:13 PM
Jason,
I am in the process of creating my AWC system using a dual head stenner pump. How has your experience been with it? I'm probably going to mount it in my laundry room where my water mixing station is. Is the Stenner loud?

I would probably go with the LiterMeter, but it runs on its own controller and I'm wanting to run everything through my Digital Aquatics Archon.
The Stenner works great and very easy to setup. If you click on my website in my profile it goes to my long running journal. The last few pages shows my setup with the stenner. But yes it is very LOUD. The spectrapure pumps have always gotten good reviews for precision, reliability and being very quite. You can't go wrong with either setup unless noise is a problem and the stenner is definitely a no go then.

jason2459
05/27/2015, 07:17 PM
Jason,

The MPM comes with 12 feet of 1/4" poly tubing you can cut in two for a short-distance installation. You can, of course, add more tubing as needed.

The preferred AWC setup is the LM3-115, LM3-RPM, and LM3-TCM. Better to have the TCM shut both pumps off if there's a high-water condition than the WXM which only shuts off that pump.

FFish,

You can plug the LM3 power supply into your controller's power strip and control it anyway you want to. It will remember its settings even if the power is removed.

Support at SpectraPure
Thanks for the reply. I'll have to come back to it when I can look up those parts. I already have some fail safe stuff like a huge float switch with a piggy back I got from Buckeye for the fresh salt mix for the run down so it doesn't go empty. And have a piggy back outlet that will get shut off if the water in the sump gets to high with one of those tubes that senses the air pressure inside.

Not sure if that changes anything. Those I use on top of a reefkepper with some float switches for redundancy.

jason2459
05/27/2015, 08:44 PM
The Stenner works great and very easy to setup. If you click on my website in my profile it goes to my long running journal. The last few pages shows my setup with the stenner. But yes it is very LOUD. The spectrapure pumps have always gotten good reviews for precision, reliability and being very quite. You can't go wrong with either setup unless noise is a problem and the stenner is definitely a no go then.


Guess it's called my homepage when clicking on the name or if you go to the profile it's other:

Either way it's not far from the last page of it here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673282&page=43

Also, another plus with spectrapure is they have a rep here on reefcentral. I like supporting businesses that support reefcentral.

jason2459
05/27/2015, 09:07 PM
Jason,

The MPM comes with 12 feet of 1/4" poly tubing you can cut in two for a short-distance installation. You can, of course, add more tubing as needed.

The preferred AWC setup is the LM3-115, LM3-RPM, and LM3-TCM. Better to have the TCM shut both pumps off if there's a high-water condition than the WXM which only shuts off that pump.

FFish,

You can plug the LM3 power supply into your controller's power strip and control it anyway you want to. It will remember its settings even if the power is removed.

Support at SpectraPure

Ok just checked out the models listed

So, it would be setup as:

outlet > TCM > LM3-115 < LM3-RPM


Then with what I have already I could do

ReefKeeper outlet controlled by backup high float switch in sump > piggy back plug from tethered pump down float switch in fresh saltmix container plugged into reefkeeper outlet > tsunami AT1 preasure sensor controlled outlet plugged into piggy back plug

Then the LM3-115 < LM3-RPM plugged into the pressure sensor outlet

Then I should be able to calibrate from there to get water changes done throughout the day right?

Sounds like the MPM will do fine then for my kalk/ato pump.

FlyingFishSKYw
05/27/2015, 10:10 PM
Thanks for the info!
Looks like I'll be getting a couple MPM's: one at the sump pushing old tank water tied into a sink drain in the crawl space, and one at my fresh SW reservoir to push down into the crawl space across the kitchen and back up to the sump :)

SpectraPure
05/28/2015, 08:58 AM
Jason,

If you have adequate high-level control with your controller, you don't need the TCM. I think that's what you're saying.

Support

jason2459
05/28/2015, 09:14 AM
Jason,

If you have adequate high-level control with your controller, you don't need the TCM. I think that's what you're saying.

Support



Yeah, that's an easier way to put it I guess. lol

I'm a little over redundant. I also just don't trust the ReefKeeper alone to accurately or dependably control two individual dummy pumps either. With the dual head stenner it was basically still controlling one pump on a basic timer. It was good for simple operations like that. The LM3 master unit is what I will rely on now to control the amount and timing of both pumps.

SpectraPure
05/28/2015, 11:51 AM
http://spectrapure.com/Power-Head-Liquid-Level-Controller-115VAC?filter_name=llc-ph

This product will eliminate your fears for your reef keepers. This is like a tcm, but you can plug anything into it. This will kill whatever electronics is operating if the water level reaches the sensor tube.

If you have more questions please let me know.

Jeremy

jason2459
06/01/2015, 06:53 PM
Looks like I got the package today. Now to get it hooked up and configured.

SpectraPure
06/01/2015, 07:02 PM
What was your order number my friend?

Jeremy

jason2459
06/01/2015, 07:13 PM
11700

jason2459
06/01/2015, 11:21 PM
Yep, all three pumps are there. Don't have time to play with the AWC setup but I did hook up the stand alone pump for the ATO.

I didn't expect to have to "fix" it out if the box but there was a read me first warning and Alan wrench for it. I plugged it in and it didn't turn at all. So, I unplugged it and used the Alan wrench to take the top off to readjust the rollers. Not something I enjoyed doing at midnight fumbling around with rollers and screws falling out of my hands while expecting plug and play into the same outlet I had my ATO controller setup for.

But after that the pump took off. Much faster then I expected and quite. I wouldn't say silent but still very quite compared to many other peristaltic pumps. Stenner being by far the loudest. Then the BRS 50ml/m one. The Avast wasn't that bad but also only lasted a few months before dying on me just like the BRS one did twice at about the year mark. Just hope this one lasts me a few years longer then that. I think the spectrapure also has a 5 year warranty which is better then the others as well. So well worth a few more dollars.

I'll get the AWC setup soon hopefully.

jason2459
06/04/2015, 11:10 PM
Updated on my AWC setup and cross posting it here

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23789321


I finally got around to setting up the two other Spectrapure pumps for the AWC. Almost didn't do it tonight as I didn't really want to fiddle around with it and expected it to be a lot harder then it was but reading the manual first was key to that I think. After skimming through that the setup was really easy. What made it take a long time was running the pumps for 20 minutes each not in parallel as only one could run at a time to break them as as they were both new.

After that I just took all the tubing from the Stenner and hooked them up to the two spectrapure pumps. The main litermeter controller pump is setup to pull the old water from the sump to the drain. Then the remote unit on port B of the controller is setup to pull new saltwater to the sump.

Getting the two pumps calibrated was really easy as long as my measuring to 500ml was close to accurate. That's the part I didn't have to do with the stenner. The main head unit is running at 194ml/m and the remote pump is running at 162ml/m. Then I have it set to do 8 liters per day. Which I guess it does that spread out over 150 times through out the day. It also doesn't run both pumps at the same time but will run pump A first and then will run pump B and if there's a pump C would run that one.

I still have multiple failsafes on top of failsafes to try and make sure the new saltmixing container doesn't run dry or the sump isn't overfilled or pumped dry as well.

I guess this is where most of the complexity comes in and was or is there regardless of what pump or pumps I'm using.

So, to recap what I have in place:

The remote pump is plugged into the liter meter III controller which is then plugged into an ATI tsunami water level by pressure controlled outlet which is my last ditch sump ultra high water mark and is never submerged so no growths or critters can interfere with it.

Plugged up and out of the way of any water catastrophes
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/04/89f5ce65d03566c54b543673061c4017.jpg

Tube to deliver the water pressure to the pressure switched outlet zip tied to a drain.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/04/4b29410dc89091f4c51676f635ccbd1d.jpg


Which then that is plugged into a piggy back plugged controlled by a large tethered float switch in the new salt mix to make sure it doesn't run dry

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/04/57c081c8c125456c02b09c20bd0da684.jpg

The large float switch and that blur of a white thing is the float valve connected to my RODI that I manually turn on but use the float valve as a backup to my memory to shut down the rodi if I don't get to it in time to manually turn it off.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/04/e23af69d27cc17b1cde4efd32bc4ca65.jpg


Then that feathered float switches piggy back plug is plugged into a reef keeper controlled outlet. The reef keeper then uses several in sump high and low switches to allow that outlet to be on or off. This is my first line of defense.

The low level is in my return pump chamber and is a dual inline switch setup that is also used for the ATO which the ATO is also plugged into another tsunami at1 outlet for a ultra high safeguard in the return pump section.

Sorry didn't realize this pic was this bad.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/04/84701fcd8ef79ad9f4766ba04b851b60.jpg


Then I have the high level switch connected to a baffle in the middle of the sump. This also won't let the skimmer run if that water level hits that float switch so the skimmer doesn't overflow.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/04/335973df61d7e9108a7996357adf2911.jpg

SpectraPure
06/09/2015, 02:58 PM
Thanks! A picture is worth a thousand words (maybe more in my case :-) ).
bruce

FlyingFishSKYw
06/18/2015, 04:45 PM
I finally got my auto water change system set up (been a busy few weeks).

I'm using a 20 gal aquarium as my new saltwater reservoir and an MPM pump:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/5c9976f8d5b62d4ac9852664175e302d.jpg

Close up of the pump laying on the plexi top:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/a173d3d85f0171e3d5cf1c81a7054b39.jpg

It pumps water from that reservoir down three feet into the crawl space, horizontally about 20' and back up three feet to my sump here:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/c25997a8b11db38927662f1689e047b1.jpg

I have the fill cycle start first so the ATO won't activate during the water change process. Six minutes after the fill cycle starts, my drain MPM pump starts to pull water from the sump, down three feet into the crawl space where I have the line tapped into a bathroom sink drain pipe.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/18/427c534c78ca595a0c8f8d58f6406c9a.jpg

I have my DigitalAquatics Archon controlling the pumps to run five days a week to change approx one gallon each time.

I still need to wire the float switch in my new salt water reservoir to shut the system down when the water level gets low. I'm also contemplating another switch in the sump for a high water level alarm to cut power to the full pump.

jason2459
06/18/2015, 07:35 PM
I'd suggest the pressure switch controlled outlet. Spectrapure has one listed above that would work well independently from the archon controller which I assume is already shutting the pump down based on a switch controlled outlet. I already had a couple tsunami AT1's otherwise I would have gotten the spectrapure one.

SpectraPure
06/20/2015, 09:49 AM
Flyingfish,

That pump is in danger of corrosion due to salt water evaporation. Can you move it closer to the reservoir you are pulling from?

Jeremy

FlyingFishSKYw
06/22/2015, 12:27 PM
The one there hanging on the sump?
That one is drawing water out and to the drain. I could probably move it to the wall ~8" away. Would that be better?

SpectraPure
06/23/2015, 09:34 AM
Will the RPM work without the LM3?
I was thinking I could have one by my fresh saltwater reservoir to fill and one by the sump for drain.

Via controller, sump RPM will turn on for a specified time to remove saltwater from system, then turn the fresh SW RPM to replenish- possibly tied to my ATO float switch to trigger it to stop.

Does that sound like it would work?

Also, shipping to Alaska shows "standard post" USPS. Is there an option for Priority Mail?

The MPM is the outlet version of the RPM. You can use it with your control system and turn it on and off that way. You can use the LM3-APM-115 that way. IT has a pressure sensor tube to tell it to turn on and off. A little silicone adhesive on the suction cup will guarantee that it wont fall off. We use it to hold your aquariums. I trust it. Then you can use the float as a fail safe above and offset of the airline pressure tube. The LiterMeter 3 solution by far is the more accurate and precise way to go.

Also the lm3 and rpm, and tcm are all on sale right now. The reason why you cant find them on other sites is because you can only buy new units through us. Check out our website.

Please let me know if you have any questions. we do have an option for priority mail. We would do that over the phone. Please call our sales department 480-894-5437 ext1.

[email protected]
Jeremy

SpectraPure
06/23/2015, 09:35 AM
The one there hanging on the sump?
That one is drawing water out and to the drain. I could probably move it to the wall ~8" away. Would that be better?

Yes that would be best to protect the pump. Would hate to see something silly like that happen to your beautiful project.

Jeremy

FlyingFishSKYw
06/23/2015, 10:44 AM
Thanks, Jeremy. I'll move it when I get home next week. So excited to have my auto water change system up and running!

SpectraPure
06/23/2015, 11:57 AM
thank you!

FlyingFishSKYw
07/28/2015, 10:52 AM
I moved the pump and mounted it on the back wall ~8"-10" from my sump... That's as far as I can get it without relocating it to the crawl space (that would take a bit more "engineering").

Right now I have the pumps programmed to change ~1 gallon a day.
Question:
Is it better to do small changes every day, or larger ones less often?

SpectraPure
07/28/2015, 10:58 AM
Small changes every day, like the LiterMeter does.

7 gallons per week is (x 4.3) = 30 gallons per month. That is 65% per month. Most reefers would say that's overkill, unless you are trying to restore a tank to pristine conditions before throttling it back to 25% per month.

Support at SpectraPure

jason2459
07/28/2015, 11:08 AM
I moved the pump and mounted it on the back wall ~8"-10" from my sump... That's as far as I can get it without relocating it to the crawl space (that would take a bit more "engineering").

Right now I have the pumps programmed to change ~1 gallon a day.
Question:
Is it better to do small changes every day, or larger ones less often?

I like small changes spread out as much as possible. I really like how the spectra pure automatically spreads it out through out the day and you just set how much to change each day.

However, if you're goal is detritus removal with your water changes via "vacuuming" fewer much larger water changes are better at that. I don't like that method or vacuuming at all but it is what some people prefer. It also removes a lot of good organisms. In stead of doing that I prefer to periodically blast everything in the tank (rocks, sand, etc.) and then use a diatom filter to filter out the sediment from the water column. It gives anything living a much better chance to escape back into their hiding places. Those big mag filters, canister filters, or I've even seen someone set in the tank a power head with a poly fill custom fit over the intake would work too. Or if you normally don't use filter socks in your sump, if you have one, this would be a good time to put one in place.

FlyingFishSKYw
11/02/2015, 05:33 PM
Hey Jeremy,

I'm thinking about relocating one of my pumps, but the power cord is too short. My solutions are to either plug the DC "brick" into a regular extension cord and extend the AC run -or- splice into the DC cable and extend that... any issues with that?

Thanks!

SpectraPure
11/03/2015, 11:13 AM
Either way will work.

Support at SpectraPure