Sky high aluminum from Marine Pure ceramic bio media?

[organism]

I've been using the Marine Pure spheres for about 6 months in my frag tank and also threw a handful into the back chamber of my 34 gallon Solana. A few months ago I read one of RHF's posts in an old thread about ceramic media possibly leaching aluminum, and since some of my corals had been looking a little weird I went two months without a water change and then sent the water out to Triton for testing.

The aluminum came back at 184.9 micro g/L instead of 2, so a ton of aluminum came from somewhere. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt, and the only thing my tank received during those two months was vodka for carbon dosing, Spectrum pellets for my two clownfish and Fauna Marin LPS pellets every so often for corals.

I'd love to hear some opinions on where it may have come from as well as suggestions on how to get rid of this excess aluminum. I'm going with water changes and carbon, but any ideas are appreciated. Either way I'm replacing the ceramic with Siporax which has been effective for nitrates in my frag tank and has the benefit of being inert...

[ReefCowboy]

I've been using the Marine Pure spheres for about 6 months in my frag tank and also threw a handful into the back chamber of my 34 gallon Solana. A few months ago I read one of RHF's posts in an old thread about ceramic media possibly leaching aluminum, and since some of my corals had been looking a little weird I went two months without a water change and then sent the water out to Triton for testing.

The aluminum came back at 184.9 micro g/L instead of 2, so a ton of aluminum came from somewhere. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt, and the only thing my tank received during those two months was vodka for carbon dosing, Spectrum pellets for my two clownfish and Fauna Marin LPS pellets every so often for corals.

I'd love to hear some opinions on where it may have come from as well as suggestions on how to get rid of this excess aluminum. I'm going with water changes and carbon, but any ideas are appreciated.

I use two 8x8x4 blocks in a 57 gal sump for over a year and have sps with their best coloration ever. Fish are also healthy. Never tested for ALuminum, am sure it could be high based on your findings, but do not believe your corals would be acting that way due to aluminum. I'm sure Randy will pitch in, with some findings on such matter.

I read 100's of reviews on that product and never read one due to aluminum intoxicating their reefs, but again anything is possible.

Curious to hear what others have o say.

[organism]

I don't keep SPS other than montis which generally look great and grow well but randomly bleach once every other month or so in ways I never saw before adding this media. Anemones are a different story, they sulk.

[bertoni]

The Marine Pure might be a source of aluminum, but that would be a bit odd as long as the media isn't being abraded in some way. I'd also consider the salt mix as being a possible issue. There seems to be some reason to believe that some salt mixes have a lot of aluminum in them, although all our data tend to be iffy.

[Coelli]

I'm using the spheres too, in a rack on one side of my fuge. So far so good after a few months - my LPS and nems (mini carpet and BTA) seem fine. Very curious about the cause!

[organism]

I bought two test kits, so my plan now is to replace the media while keeping everything else the same, and then retest in 4-6 months. If it's still high then it could be the salt mix or something else, if it's low then the media a pretty good guess as to where it was coming from.

Regarding whether or not it harms corals I've read a lot of things from Randy saying it can, like this 2003 article (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/7/chemistry) on aluminum in reefs. The thing is even if corals look good it doesn't mean they're not being affected and might be healthier without the aluminum present. Maybe it affects some corals more than others like softies vs SPS.

[Big E]

Read this thread-----

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2453931&highlight=bio+block

[bertoni]

If your kits are rated for freshwater use, you might want to test some distilled water as a sanity check. Kits do fail.

[jayball]

I believe GFO binds Al but wait for someone to confirm that has better chem knowledge than me.

[bertoni]

I haven't heard that GFO will bind aluminum. This article covers GFO in some detail:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.htm

It doesn't mention binding aluminum, although that might happen.

[jayball]

I haven't heard that GFO will bind aluminum. This article covers GFO in some detail:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.htm

It doesn't mention binding aluminum, although that might happen.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23224670&postcount=20

I knew I saw it somewhere. I am not sure if it is effective enough to make a difference but this was posted in the big marinepure debate from 7-8 months ago by RHF.

[Ted_C]

I bought two test kits, so my plan now is to replace the media while keeping everything else the same, and then retest in 4-6 months. If it's still high then it could be the salt mix or something else, if it's low then the media a pretty good guess as to where it was coming from.

Regarding whether or not it harms corals I've read a lot of things from Randy saying it can, like this 2003 article on aluminum in reefs. The thing is even if corals look good it doesn't mean they're not being affected and might be healthier without the aluminum present. Maybe it affects some corals more than others like softies vs SPS.

As I said in the other thread regarding marinepure ceramic media and aluminum - you don't know what's "making your corals look a little weird" WHat is this? what's a little weird?

While your aluminum is high - according to RHF - it's a certain type of alumunim that's bad for certain types of soft corals - aluminum oxide . You shouldn't use the triton test to determine that one causes the other (Aluminum = weird looking corals) since it doesn't identify the type of aluminum. The biomedia blocks are primarly AluminoSilicate.

Triton's analytical techniques have also come under fire - 189 PPB is very close to the ICP's detection limit of Aluminum in seawater (~0.110 PPM or 110 PPB).

I see your from California - do you have the windows open in the house? Since it's so dry - you could have airborne dust contaminating your tank that could be a source of aluminum rather than the biomedia (allthough its likely what your seeing is partially from the biomedia). What did the Phosphorous reading come back as from Triton? What did the Silicon reading come back as?

Remember to mind your units as well. 189 micrograms / liter is 189 PPB. Randy's experiment started to show toxicity to mushrooms and leathers at 0.2 PPM according to the study. You're close to 0.2 PPM with 189 PPB.

[bertoni]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23224670&postcount=20

I knew I saw it somewhere. I am not sure if it is effective enough to make a difference but this was posted in the big marinepure debate from 7-8 months ago by RHF.
That's interesting. I guess I'm getting forgetful. I don't know how much aluminum the media would bind. We could ask some people with high aluminum levels whether they are running GFO, and if so, how much. I suspect, though, that phosphate would be bound preferentially, so we would need to analyze exactly what their GFO reactors were trapping.

[organism]

While your aluminum is high - according to RHF - it's a certain type of alumunim that's bad for certain types of soft corals - aluminum oxide . You shouldn't use the triton test to determine that one causes the other (Aluminum = weird looking corals) since it doesn't identify the type of aluminum. The biomedia blocks are primarly AluminoSilicate.

Randy's already pointed out that it does break down into harmful aluminum
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23229886&postcount=59

You miss the point: the only thing that matters is if the media is releasing aluminum. If it is then I don't want it in my tank. It may or may not be the cause of anything, but it will not be leached into my tank by a product that is not supposed to be leaching anything into my tank.

[bertoni]

Well, there's good reason to believe that the media might release aluminum. I don't think that's been demonstrated yet. It'd be interesting to resolve this issue, but I would have to think up an experiment.

[orly20]

Anyone come to a conclusion?

[ryanwongg]

bump for any long term updates

[Dan_P]

Take look at Randy's article (has this guy NOT written an article on any topic :-) )

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/7/chemistry

[dkeller_nc]

bump for any long term updates

This topic has been discussed at length on RC's Reef Chemistry forum - there seems to be a definite correlation between high aluminum test results from Triton and the use of ceramic artificial "rock". BTW - most ceramics contain a good deal of aluminum in their structure, so I'm not sure that one brand or another would make all that much difference.

However, I rather doubt that we'll see much more than correlation, as proof-of-toxicity would require a controlled experiment, exposing potentially valued and valuable animals to potentially lethal amounts of dissolved aluminum, and some frequent, pretty expensive ICP tests for aluminum in both the test aquarium and control aquarium.

Since live and/or dry rock as a surface for establishing a bio-filter is inexpensive and readily available, I simply suggest to folks that they stay away from high surface-area ceramic "live rock" substitutes. Might be perfectly OK for fish, however.

[tmz]

The Titron test doesn't differentiate the species of aluminum and that matters in terms of toxicity.


For perspective, the level of 182 ug /l is equivalent to about .184ppm .

From Randy's: article on aluminum linked in post 18 by Dan P:

"....In a recent survey (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.htm) of 23 reef aquaria, Shimek claimed that aluminum levels ranged from 0.070 to 0.32 ppm, with a mean of 0.173 ppm..."

and


These values were all generated by ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) where the sample is injected into a plasma and the light emissions of the various ions are quantified at one or more specific wavelengths unique to each element. I am skeptical that all of the values in the survey above represent real measurements of aluminum rather than noise in the ICP since they are all right around the limit of quantitation for aluminum in seawater.

Titron uses ICP; so, I don't think the information on the test results is actionable in the sense that it is unreliable for any idication of toxicity and the set point is dubious, IMO.

It's also worth noting this from the article:


Aluminum is also strongly attracted to organics and some inorganics (like silica), making the exact speciation of aluminum very complicated. There is also a fair amount of aluminum present in particulate and colloidal forms (typically in combination with silica),

GFO attracts slicate ;so it may remove some aluminum with it but there is no data to support Triton's assumption( noted in the link from post #11 that GFO and the use of an alumina based phosphate remover in rotation will help maintain ideal aluminum levels .

[organism]

Very interesting, thanks for the info!

[tmz]

You are welcome.

[Sonicboom]

Just a note that Aluminum is the active ingredient in most deodorant, so anyone putting their arms in their tanks is probably introducing it that way.

[bertoni]

The amount of aluminum available from antiperspirant is likely minimal. I'd worry more about other sources.

[Sonicboom]

However minimal it might be, it is the main ingredient in deodorant and the Triton tests will detect even miniscule amounts. I'm not saying that is the definite source but it shouldn't be ruled out.

[stoelton]

With many light systems and other tank accesories being constructed of aluminium and salt water being corrosive to aluminium especially in the presence of stainless steel (screws) and an electrolyte (saltwater), I would suspect that any AL concentrations could be the result of the corrosive effects of saltwater on any exposed aluminium metal in, on or near the system.

[jalisco]

Just a note that Aluminum is the active ingredient in most deodorant, so anyone putting their arms in their tanks is probably introducing it that way.

Actually aluminum is often among the active ingredients in antiperspirants. I've never seen aluminum listed on deodorant. FWIW

[Ted_C]

Haha - since we are sitting here resurrecting old threads - I've found another source of aluminum besides dust. Frozen food blister packs. Every time I get a little bit of the blister pack mixed in with my food into the main display - my conductivity goes crazy (measured in the sump). A water change (and removing the bit of blister pack) and the conductivity returns to normal. Maybe it's anecdotal but it's happened twice now.

[organism]

Interesting.

As an update to this thread I put the marine pure balls in my bigger frag tank thinking they wouldn't be an issue. Around 8 months later stuff starts dying, I get a Triton test done and everything is good except again Aluminum is high and Vanadium is sky high. Done with marine pure.

[TheReeferer]

I don't understand behind this stuff.... Just use true and tested ceramic rings like fluval biomax which has been around for decades and is the same thing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sk8r]

I've kept a PolyFilter next to the block and have gotten no stain that would indicate the release of aluminum

[bertoni]

I think that the Marine Pure block is alleged to have more pores than the older ceramic media, and thus might be more effective. I haven't tried either, though, so I am not sure what works better.

[droog]

I don't understand behind this stuff.... Just use true and tested ceramic rings like fluval biomax which has been around for decades and is the same thing


MarinePure has more surface area than other "ring" alternatives - that has been demonstrated clearly in many forums. Otherwise it's the same same stuff (I don't see any point swapping biomax for MP balls).

The thicker blocks are a little bit more interesting. They allow for anoxic conditions within the block that (supposedly) allow for nitrate reduction (nitrates to nitrate gas). I believe thus presupposes a carbon source.

Adding one block to the sump of my 125g system dropped my nitrates from 5-10ppm to undetectable in a week or two and they have remained undetectable for about 6 months now.

I've kept a PolyFilter next to the block and have gotten no stain that would indicate the release of aluminum

How are your nitrates now you've had the block for several months Sk8r? I remember she was sceptical of this thing initially too. I was also. After using for a while I plan to keep it and would use one in my next tank (which is maybe the best question to ask people).

Especially concerning for me was the issue of Aluminium leaching. Based on what I've read on this forum and observed in my own tank, I think the media can abrade / dissolve quite easily and that this releases particles of the ceramic into the water. While that is not a good thing, I no longer believe MP leaches aluminium, though. So I'm not surprised Sk8r's polyfilter shows no Aluminum. Neither am I surprised that triton tests of tanks running MarinePure come back with high Aluminum. I think that is a false positive based on particulate matter. This is just my opinion, though.

There was a long and informative thread between two chemists on here trying to prove this one way or another. It was a great read, and respectful / constructive discussion but ultimately they couldn't devise an experiment that would prove it one way or another.

-droog

[RussC]

I just had an interesting conversations with the online chat rep at Bulk Reef Supply about the ceramic block. He said they did have a problem with "earlier batches" regarding reports of aluminum leaching from the blocks. But that the new batches are "greatly improved." This thread is about two years old. I came across it searching for information about the aluminum leaching because I was considering the ceramic blocks in my sump. I was wondering if anyone had any new news about this or new experiences?