GFO vs Phosguard vs Rowaphos?

[Jdavis8824]

I have a 20g fusion aquarium. I have high phosphates and brown algae is growing a little quicker then usual. I had bubbles forming on the rocks which made me think Dino's but I cut down the feeding and lighting and the bubbles are gone but brown algae is still growing pretty fast. My corals are opening all the way most of the time and growth has slowed a lot. I'm getting a reactor, the mini max, this weekend and was wondering what best for my situation. I was thinking GFO but the guy at my LFS told me Phosguard. I heard GFO is messy and takes longer to lower phosphates and Rowaphos and Phosguard are quicker but don't last long and have aluminum in them. What should I do? Currently I have chemi pure elite and puragen but the stuff was falling through the filter socks I got so I had to cut up the bags they came in. So there's very little in the media baskets, so I plan to use some panty hose this weekend so the media baskets are full and the media doesn't fall through.

[ryeguyy84]

GFO (granulated ferric oxide) is an excellent adsorbent, It can be considered pricey and will exhaust quickly in high PO4 water. BRS HC gfo is a denser product which i think is similar to Rowaphos.

Aluminium based adsorbents like Phosguard with careful rinsing and observation are okay. Aluminum particulates may irritate some corals, this is why I don't use it, I tried it once and my Zoas hated it.

your results may vary.

[Jdavis8824]

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking maybe shutting the lights off for 3 days and lower the feedings. Then when lights come back on I'll add the reactor with the GFO. Don't really want to get it from BRS because the shipping is so much so I'll get the one my LFS carries then when it's time to get a bunch of little things I'll get it all from BRS, including there GFO.

[hkgar]

Shipping for 1/2 gallon of GFO from BRS is $9.95 USPS

[whosurcaddie]

http://smile.amazon.com/GFO-Phosphate-Removal-Aquariums-Health/dp/B00RI5LE5K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433358517&sr=8-1&keywords=gfo

1 pound of gfo for 15$ free shipping. Just as good as the regular gfo BRS sells at a fraction of the price.

[Jdavis8824]

Thanks for the links. Also, what if the GFO gets the phosphates and or alk to low? What do I do if this happens? And how much GFO do I add to the mini max? 1/4, 1/2 ect into the reactor?

[RuttingB]

Good to know. I was using Rowaphos and switched to BRS. I never knew that one of these products had Aluminum.

[ryeguyy84]

do you have a test kit?

GFO shouldn't do anything to ALK, just test phosphate until it's down to a level you are comfortable with.

start with 5 tbsp in the reactor, that will probably be depleted pretty fast if you have high phosphates so you might want to change it out at the 2 week mark for the first 2 changes then you can go longer.

Make sure you rinse the GFO, I usually just put the reactor return tube into a gallon jug to rinse but with the minimax maybe rinse it in a filter bag before putting it into the reactor.

[andrek787]

I recently changed out my GFO and filled a Phosban 150 half-full and I am really having a hard time keeping alkalinity above 8 dhk.

Look at Aquavitro phosfiltrum, if your LFS carries it. It supposed to be one of the highest capacity GFO's on the market.

[hkgar]

I recently changed out my GFO and filled a Phosban 150 half-full and I am really having a hard time keeping alkalinity above 8 dhk.

Look at Aquavitro phosfiltrum, if your LFS carries it. It suer hold a pposed to be one of the highest capacity GFO's on the market.

At $51.57 a pound it better hold a whole lot of phosphate. Needs to remove 3.5 times the product mentioned above on Amazon.

[ryeguyy84]

:eek2: I'd rather just replace cheap GFO weekly, and for a 20G tank a pound would last quite a while.

about 4 cups per LB, 16 TSBP's per cup. he's using 5 TBSP's that should get him 12 changes per LB.

[ryeguyy84]

This is from The great Randy Holmes Farley:

"GFO does not really lower alkalinity, except perhaps in the first minute of use there could be a small effect depending on how it was prepared.

After that, there are several processes that make the tank use more calcium and alkalinity, both biologically (corals calcify faster when phosphate is reduced) and in increased abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate (iron itself may increase that).

So if those things happen, it may be detectable as increased demand for calcium and alkalinity, and a bit more of whatever you supplement with normally will work fine.

I discuss such issues here:

Iron Oxide Hydroxide (GFO) Phosphate Binders
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.htm

from it:

What else might iron oxide hydroxide do? Precipitation of CaCO3
Many aquarists using GFO have reported unusually extensive precipitation of carbonates on the solid GFO, and elsewhere in the system. Such precipitation can, for example, be a contributing factor in the caking of such materials, and can coat other surfaces in the aquarium. This precipitation can also contribute to a drop in alkalinity and possibly pH as it removes carbonate from the water column. The effect of calcium will be similar, but smaller on a percentage basis, with a drop of only 20 ppm calcium for every 1 meq/L (2.8 dkH) drop in alkalinity. Increased calcification by corals and coralline algae (possibly spurred by reduced phosphate) can also cause similar drops in calcium, alkalinity, and pH.
Dissolution of these precipitates with acid, accompanied by bubbling, indicates that these deposits are carbonates, and are most likely calcium carbonate since it is supersaturated in most reef aquaria (and in the ocean). Several factors may contribute to this precipitation. Many of these are rather straightforward. It is known, for example, that phosphate inhibits the precipitation of calcium carbonate. Much like the role that magnesium plays in seawater, phosphate binds to the growing calcium carbonate crystals, poisoning their surface against further precipitation of calcium carbonate. Many organic materials are also known to inhibit this precipitation. Near the surface of the GFO, and downstream from it, the organics and phosphate are expected to be lower in concentration than upstream from it. The reduction in concentration of these inhibitors may well permit increased abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on such surfaces.
Two more esoteric events may, however, be equally important. The first is that the local pH near the GFO surfaces may be higher than in the bulk solution. This effect arises as phosphate and other inorganic and organic ions displace hydroxide from the surface. Figure 2, for example, shows phosphate displacing two hydroxide ions. The net swap of HPO4-- for 2 OH- will raise the local pH. The supersaturation of calcium carbonate increases as the pH rises, driving the precipitation of calcium carbonate.
Another possible role may be played by the iron itself. GFO is not completely insoluble. The solubility of iron hydroxide in natural seawater is small, but still significant (0.02 - 2 ppb), although it is largely controlled by the availability of organic ligands.11-13 One interesting possibility lies in the way that soluble iron actually impacts the precipitation of calcium carbonate.
At high concentrations, iron inhibits the precipitation of calcium carbonate. While different researchers find different threshold concentrations for this inhibition (>25 ppm in one case,14>7ppm in another case15), it is a well established and studied phenomenon. The mechanism is believed to be the same as for magnesium, phosphate, and organics, which all poison the growing calcium carbonate surface.
At much lower concentrations, however, iron actually increases the precipitation of calcium carbonate by acting as a site for nucleation of new crystals. In one case this happened at 100 ppb dissolved iron, increasing the rate of scaling (the precipitation of calcium carbonate on surfaces) by about 60%.14 In another case, the induction time for precipitation (that is, the time it takes for precipitation to begin once the water becomes supersaturated) was reduced by 40% at 1.4 ppm iron and the overall precipitation rate was increased by 32% at 560 ppb (lower iron levels were not tested).15 These studies were carried out in freshwater, and I have not seen similar studies in seawater.
Is the natural dissolution of GFO important in the nucleation of calcium carbonate precipitation? I am not sure. But it is clearly one possible explanation that fits the observations of aquarists as well as known phenomena involving iron. "

[Jdavis8824]

Man that's a lot to take in. Lol. I don't have cal, mag, alk and phos test kits yet. I just take some water to the LFS. Wife is getting upset that I spending so much on it because I'm paying a lot for my real estate license and in real estate investments and I'm not gonna get paid Til this house is finished and sold. Could take 2-3 months. So for now I can only get alittle at a time. When I go to get the reactor I'm gonna get it tested again. I recently added a big zoa rock to the tank and that's when most of this happened such as algae and Dino's. My corals never really opened all the way though so that might not be it. I tried lowering my lighting. Tested at 500par on top rocks and 250par on sand bed at 50% blues 40% whites. I got them set too 30% blues and 20% whites now but no change. Is the specturm good? Should I do more blues or whites? Or less light even!?

[Jdavis8824]

Last time I got my water tested it was 400cal 9dhk 0.01phos and 120mag, that was a month and a half ago but I use coral pro salt and change the water 13% weekly so the levels should be the same. I'm getting no coraline algae even though there's snails, coral frags, and a few rocks with coraline on it. Can anyone help me on what my problem is!?

[Jdavis8824]

<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsv6fw7bk5.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsv6fw7bk5.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsv6fw7bk5.jpg"/></a>I
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4banwaec.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4banwaec.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zps4banwaec.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswfqwzdkl.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswfqwzdkl.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpswfqwzdkl.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7vh0flgs.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7vh0flgs.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zps7vh0flgs.jpg"/></a>

[Jdavis8824]

As you can see my zoas and frog spawn don't really open all the way. There is also some bubbles still on the rocks but not as much. The algae that is on my rocks is brown but isn't stringy only gets stringy on the glass and in the sump. Also there's what looks like bubble algae in the big zoa frag but those bubbles are clear. The frog spawn hasn't ever really opened all the way but its worst now then before. I tried moving it around but no change. Also the pink polyps on the sand bed use to have reddish looking tips but now they changed white. Anyone know what I could do to fix this or is the reactor with GFO the best course of action?

[andrek787]

At $51.57 a pound it better hold a whole lot of phosphate. Needs to remove 3.5 times the product mentioned above on Amazon.

Yep, that stuff is not cheap for sure. It actually adds up to 80 bucks per pound @ my LFS. The reason I mentioned it is that it is designed not to create dust, which in my opinion is much more of concern in a nano all-in-one tank.

If you follow the recommendations, the amount required for 20g would be 15 grams, which means each change would only cost around 2-3 dollars.

[Jdavis8824]

Yea I'll look into that. BRS also has one that has bigger granules that don't grind as much too. But I was really wanting to just get something from my LFS since I'm getting the reactor there already anyway. Any one have any thoughts on the pics I posted? Will 3 days no lights help with the algae? And will my crabs starve if it does?

[ryeguyy84]

<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsv6fw7bk5.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsv6fw7bk5.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsv6fw7bk5.jpg"/></a>I
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4banwaec.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps4banwaec.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zps4banwaec.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswfqwzdkl.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswfqwzdkl.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpswfqwzdkl.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s304.photobucket.com/user/Jdavis8824/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7vh0flgs.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn161/Jdavis8824/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7vh0flgs.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zps7vh0flgs.jpg"/></a>


I don't see any algae, maybe I'm missing it?

[Jdavis8824]

It's just brown fuzzy algae. Had to tell because of the light but all my rocks are most brown. I wipe the glass so there's not really any there.

[Jdavis8824]

Also if you look at the last pic with the zoas you'll see the bubble algae. Emerald crab has yet to find it but the other crabs are taking care of the bulk of the brown algae. LFS told me that brown algae is a sign of high phosphates

[Jdavis8824]

Also when the lights go out there's a white fuzzy film that covers the top of the rocks

[vhuang168]

What salinity are you mixing Red Sea Coral Pro at? I use rscp @1.026 n my #s r 12dkh alk, 460cal 1400mag. Yours seem low

[hkgar]

Yea I'll look into that. BRS also has one that has bigger granules that don't grind as much too. But I was really wanting to just get something from my LFS since I'm getting the reactor there already anyway. Any one have any thoughts on the pics I posted? Will 3 days no lights help with the algae? And will my crabs starve if it does?

Before I switched to GFO, I used Rowaphos and was very pleased. I switched when I moved from my 90 gallon to a 180 - because of cost. I would get Rowaphos from your LFS

[ryeguyy84]

I opened the pictures on my PC and I can see the brown now. take a turkey baster and blow it off the rocks during a water change. then try the 3 days lights out and see what happens. How old is the tank?

[Jdavis8824]

I just did a in depth cleaning. Cleaned the pump, power head, skimmer, sump, and water change. Also changed our the chemi pure and purigen. The back of the sump had a ton of algae, the light leaks over. I turkey baster the rocks but not much blew off, I do it every week. The top of the rocks is turning white and has a fuzzy looking film. I tried brushing it but nothing came off. My salinity is at 1.026. I'm gonna attempt lights off for 3 days and add the reator Saturday and hopefully this will solve my problem. Tank is 6 months old now. The sand looked a little brown at the top after I turned off the lights so I stirred it. What can I add to maintain the sandbed when it's only 3/4 to 1 inch deep? I tried a nassuars snail shorty after it cycled but he died.

[Jdavis8824]

Or I think I added him about a month after it cycled

[Jdavis8824]

Anyone have any ideas of what I can add to maintain my sandbed that's only just under an inch deep?

[hkgar]

vacuum it when you do water changes.