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BigJohnny
06/09/2015, 06:03 PM
How can anyone possibly use a salt with 12dkh....a lot of people love this salt but good lord, sps don't even like above 9.5.

Red sea salt on the other hand only has 7.7 dkh which is a little to low imo. I plan on dosing kalkwasser with my ATO and am trying to decide on a good salt for an lps/sps dominated mixed reef. Was thinking just regular red sea salt then just boost calcium/alkalinity halfway to coral pro with 2 part , then maintain with kalk.

Thoughts?

bertoni
06/09/2015, 07:23 PM
That approach should be fine. I did similar dosing with the old IO formulation, which was low in magnesium.

BigJohnny
06/09/2015, 07:49 PM
That approach should be fine. I did similar dosing with the old IO formulation, which was low in magnesium.
Cool thanks. What do you use now? Also would there be a way to use coral pro and lower dkh? I'd rather not have to dose just to get my salt right.

Do you know how people have success with coral pro with such high dkh?

bertoni
06/09/2015, 08:45 PM
The new IO is fine as is. :) You can lower the dKH by adding a mineral acid, like muriatic acid. I can give you a formula, if you'd like. People are successful with higher dKH levels, though. You could give it a try.

BigJohnny
06/09/2015, 09:14 PM
The new IO is fine as is. :) You can lower the dKH by adding a mineral acid, like muriatic acid. I can give you a formula, if you'd like. People are successful with higher dKH levels, though. You could give it a try.

Do you know what the new IOS params are currently?

Hm, I just don't know. I picked up a 200g box of seachem reef salt originally because I like seachem as a company and assumed it was good. Then I've read a lot about false dkh readings due to extra high borate or something. those were old threads however so I'm not sure if they have fixed it. Do you know anything about that? BTW thanks for all your help![emoji3]

bertoni
06/09/2015, 09:37 PM
I always got something close to the canonical 400 ppm and 11 dKH.

The "false" reading due to high borate probably is true to some extent with some salt products targeted to fish-only systems. The readings were accurate as far as total alkalinity, but for reef tanks, we tend to be concerned also with carbonate alkalinity, and adding a lot of borate made judging the carbonate alkalinity level problematic.

BigJohnny
06/09/2015, 10:27 PM
I always got something close to the canonical 400 ppm and 11 dKH.

The "false" reading due to high borate probably is true to some extent with some salt products targeted to fish-only systems. The readings were accurate as far as total alkalinity, but for reef tanks, we tend to be concerned also with carbonate alkalinity, and adding a lot of borate made judging the carbonate alkalinity level problematic.
So do you think the seachem reef salt would make it hard for me to test for dkh accurately? I have hannah checker.

BTW, so since your IO has 11dkh, does that mean you run your tank at 11dkh?

bertoni
06/10/2015, 12:41 AM
I think the SeaChem should be okay at this point. My tanks went from 10 dKH down close to 7 every day for many years.

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 06:52 AM
I think the SeaChem should be okay at this point. My tanks went from 10 dKH down close to 7 every day for many years.

Ok but if I use seachem do I need to aim for a different dkh to compensate or no?

Wait are you saying your tanks fluctuate 3 dkh daily?

rt67ghy
06/10/2015, 08:28 AM
Also would there be a way to use coral pro and lower dkh?

Do you know how people have success with coral pro with such high dkh?

I have been using coral pro for some time now and like the high Mg ( 1337mg/L last time I tested a fresh mix with alk at ...wait... 13.22 dkh). I now do small water changes (app 10%) so dkh doesn't increase by more than 0.5 after a water change which is what I normally dose anyway.

I'm getting Red Sea Salt which has alk at 2.8 dkh so I can do larger water changes if needed by mixing with Coral Pro in the desired ratio so as to avoid an alk spike. This avoids having to change salt brand and causing issues for acros.

ReefCowboy
06/10/2015, 09:55 AM
I personally use this salt for years and never had issues. Small or large water changes sps have been fine.
I guess the issue could be inconsistency through batches?

bertoni
06/10/2015, 12:23 PM
I think that targeting 8 dKH for the SeaChem should be fine. My tanks consume 2-3 dKH per day of two-part, which I dosed once a day in the morning.

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 12:35 PM
I have been using coral pro for some time now and like the high Mg ( 1337mg/L last time I tested a fresh mix with alk at ...wait... 13.22 dkh). I now do small water changes (app 10%) so dkh doesn't increase by more than 0.5 after a water change which is what I normally dose anyway.

My problem with this is I am starting a new system so can't start at 13.2 dkh

I'm getting Red Sea Salt which has alk at 2.8 dkh so I can do larger water changes if needed by mixing with Coral Pro in the desired ratio so as to avoid an alk spike. This avoids having to change salt brand and causing issues for acros.

i think you meant red sea salt has alk at 2.8 meq/L not dkh.....not sure how that converts to dkh

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 12:35 PM
I personally use this salt for years and never had issues. Small or large water changes sps have been fine.
I guess the issue could be inconsistency through batches?
What dkh does it mix at for you and what is the dkh of your reef tank?

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 12:38 PM
I think that targeting 8 dKH for the SeaChem should be fine. My tanks consume 2-3 dKH per day of two-part, which I dosed once a day in the morning.

Wouldn't targeting 8dkh with the seachem mean lower salinity? Or do you mean with a buffer of muriatic acid? I am just setting up a new tank so I want a salt that will mix at 420-440 calcium, 8-9.5dkh, and 1250-1400 magnesium, preferably with no adjustments and at a reasonable cost. That way I can just make up the tank with that, keep it that way with kalkwasser, and do water changes that will minimally alter my params (except lower nitrate and phosphate obviously)

bertoni
06/10/2015, 12:42 PM
I probably would lower the dKH of that salt with some muriatic acid. The other alternative is doing small water changes and letting the level drop before adding more supplements, although that requires more testing than using a low-dKH product in the first place. Targeting 11 dKH should be fine. I meant 8 dKH as a reasonable lower limit, and should have been more clear.

Rodmad
06/10/2015, 03:12 PM
I have the same issue with my pro salt, so rather than doing a 10% water change alk at once I split it in half and do a 5% water change on back to back days. Seems to work well for me and my alk stays near 10 dkh.

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 03:16 PM
I probably would lower the dKH of that salt with some muriatic acid. The other alternative is doing small water changes and letting the level drop before adding more supplements, although that requires more testing than using a low-dKH product in the first place. Targeting 11 dKH should be fine. I meant 8 dKH as a reasonable lower limit, and should have been more clear.

Gotcha, for the initial set up I guess I would have to buffer with muriatic acid to get it right. I have the opportunity to return the seachem though, I'd rather not have to buffer at all unless you think it's quick n painless? I have no experience with that. Do you do anything to your IO or just water change n continue two part?

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 03:18 PM
I have the same issue with my pro salt, so rather than doing a 10% water change alk at once I split it in half and do a 5% water change on back to back days. Seems to work well for me and my alk stays near 10 dkh.

Makes sense and it appears to be a common strategy with that salt. My problem would be initial set up, I will have nothing to deplete the dkh initially so It would just stay at 13 or watever

BigJohnny
06/10/2015, 03:19 PM
Have any of you tried aquavitro salinity?

ReefCowboy
06/10/2015, 07:40 PM
What dkh does it mix at for you and what is the dkh of your reef tank?

I do 20% WC every week and I can't get my alk over or under 8.0.

I will test the water batch after I mix it this weekend to be sure but I've never worried since the main system has always been stable.

I'm actually curious now, maybe it is indeed off

rt67ghy
06/11/2015, 07:33 AM
i think you meant red sea salt has alk at 2.8 meq/L not dkh.....not sure how that converts to dkh

Yes, you're right. Sorry for that. 2.8 meq/l is equivalent to 7.8 dkh.

BigJohnny
06/14/2015, 12:49 AM
Ok, so done a ton of research. Last question , how are you supposed to store coral pro saltwater if you can't mix it for more than 4 hours. Also, how is mixing it for 4 hours any different than putting in the tank which constantly circulates the water anyway. Makes no sense to me

atorres53
06/14/2015, 06:01 AM
Ok, so done a ton of research. Last question , how are you supposed to store coral pro saltwater if you can't mix it for more than 4 hours. Also, how is mixing it for 4 hours any different than putting in the tank which constantly circulates the water anyway. Makes no sense to me

That is exactly what I said on another post on RC. It gets a lot more agitation in our tanks. Most of us have multiple circulation pumps, your return pump, skimmer, chiller pump and etc.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23806805#post23806805

ryeguyy84
06/14/2015, 06:10 AM
Look into coralife salt. I've used it for years, it's cheap and mixes at:

Sg: 1.026
alk - 9.5 dkh
Magnesium - 1340ppm
Calcium - 450ppm

And it mixes quickly with very little brown gunk compared to IO

BigJohnny
06/14/2015, 03:16 PM
Look into coralife salt. I've used it for years, it's cheap and mixes at:

Sg: 1.026
alk - 9.5 dkh
Magnesium - 1340ppm
Calcium - 450ppm

And it mixes quickly with very little brown gunk compared to IO
That looks perfect........why isn't it more popular?

ryeguyy84
06/14/2015, 03:20 PM
That looks perfect........why isn't it more popular?


I have no idea... Lack of advertising I guess. My lfs has it a 200g bucket for less than $40.

BigJohnny
06/14/2015, 05:27 PM
I have no idea... Lack of advertising I guess. My lfs has it a 200g bucket for less than $40.
Do you test every freshly mixed batch? Have you had any consistency issues? Can I see some pics of your tank ?!:cool:

ryeguyy84
06/14/2015, 06:25 PM
I don't test every batch but I do test my tank and my alk/cal/mag are right on. I dose 2 part to keep my levels on so that makes me think the salt is consistent. I'd say I test the new salt twice a bucket. So when I open it and toward the end.

Tank shot, I just did a water change so some stuff is closed. It is a 60g cube tank

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o686/ocon2262/biocube/E27F8F54-4E41-4EAB-A8B4-1BEF9950B41D_zps4od4fpu7.jpg (http://s1338.photobucket.com/user/ocon2262/media/biocube/E27F8F54-4E41-4EAB-A8B4-1BEF9950B41D_zps4od4fpu7.jpg.html)

BigJohnny
06/14/2015, 07:32 PM
I don't test every batch but I do test my tank and my alk/cal/mag are right on. I dose 2 part to keep my levels on so that makes me think the salt is consistent. I'd say I test the new salt twice a bucket. So when I open it and toward the end.

Tank shot, I just did a water change so some stuff is closed. It is a 60g cube tank

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o686/ocon2262/biocube/E27F8F54-4E41-4EAB-A8B4-1BEF9950B41D_zps4od4fpu7.jpg (http://s1338.photobucket.com/user/ocon2262/media/biocube/E27F8F54-4E41-4EAB-A8B4-1BEF9950B41D_zps4od4fpu7.jpg.html)
Beautiful tank, thanks man. I'll try that salt out sometime.

ryeguyy84
06/15/2015, 04:54 AM
Thanks! Glad to help