On a quest for the "perfect" SPS LED.

[Dans85]

After researching and researching, I have finally decided to go ahead and start a new thread in hopes of getting some feedback from fellow reefers and maybe some who have successfully kept SPS coral under LED lighting.

Like many, i started out with a biocube (14) due to all that it has to offer. Along with the tank, I bought a DIY premium LED retrofit kit from Rapidled. The kit is basically the same kit that is for the biocubes less the heatsink. I decided to stick with the LEDs that are standard with the kit and now I' wanting a little more than it has to offer. The standard kit has 6 RB and 6 CW.

Right now, I have one SPS coral, a tri color acropora, and seeing all of the pictures online with the beautiful greens, pinks, purples, and blues makes me want to try and color mine up more. Right now it has turned a pale pinkish orange color. It seems to be healthy and growing, just not much in the way of color.

What i am trying to do is seek a little advise as to which I should add or remove in order to reveal the more fluorescent pigments. From my research, neutral white, violet (not UV), royal blue, and blue should help with this.

My game plan as of now is to replace the CW LEDs with neutral white, and add some of each of the other colors listed above. I plan to put each color in its own dedicated string and control them via my coralux storm.

What i am trying to figure out as of now is the ratios of LEDs that I should go with. Maybe someone has some input on that?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[tdtreefer]

i would keep a few cw in there, i myself am running 15k led with true actinic led, puts off amazing color and my sps are looking great. i would say keep 3 cw 3 wm 4rb 2b and 2v and two red, the red will enhance coraline algea growth and add color as well. another thing to keep in mind is if you want full spectrum that includes uv.

[Dans85]

I'm sourcing the chips from rapidled. They have 400nm-400nm and 410nm-400nm for violet. So, maybe use two of each? Also, which red would you go with?

[lpsouth1978]

I'm sourcing the chips from rapidled. They have 400nm-400nm and 410nm-400nm for violet. So, maybe use two of each? Also, which red would you go with?

That sounds like a good mix. I would do:

2 CW
2 NW
2 RB
2 B
2 400-410nm Violet
2 410-420nm Violet
2 660nm Red

You could even think about adding some cyan. Just keep in mind that some of these LED's cannot be run at 1000mA.

[ReefWreak]

I like my current coloration on my nanocube, I used RapidLED's 29g biocube solderless kit, with full spectrum, then I swapped out half of the CWs for NWs. I think that the coloration that I'm getting is a result of the mix of colors in the full spectrum, though I don't have evidence to qualify this.

For what it's worth, my recommendation would be:
2 cw
2 wm
4rb
2v/UV
1 red
1 lime

From my experience, I would run the RBs on their own channel at full-tilt (1300mA) and the rest at 700mA, and start them all off at the equivalent 20% during acclimation (20% from full-spectrum and 10% from RBs), but it depends where your LEDs are now.

I love my setup currently, and the colors are fantastic.

big note here though
Don't expect lights to fix your colors. If you are having nutrient/stability issues, light will not make colors randomly happen. You need enough light AND need stable parameters. I would recommend dosing calcium and alkalinity 2 part with dosing pumps to add the stability. That's the only way you will get full color and nice growth out of SPS.

Please feel free to check out my build thread here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2506377)to see how my tank is doing with the LED retrofit.

[tdtreefer]

i have never heard of this cyan.. im interested. maybe adding a new channel to my diy led, and i hope you are using fans on this, that many led and if they are 3w are going to put off some heat

[lpsouth1978]

I like my current coloration on my nanocube, I used RapidLED's 29g biocube solderless kit, with full spectrum, then I swapped out half of the CWs for NWs. I think that the coloration that I'm getting is a result of the mix of colors in the full spectrum, though I don't have evidence to qualify this.

For what it's worth, my recommendation would be:
2 cw
2 wm
4rb
2v/UV
1 red
1 lime

From my experience, I would run the RBs on their own channel at full-tilt (1300mA) and the rest at 700mA, and start them all off at the equivalent 20% during acclimation (20% from full-spectrum and 10% from RBs), but it depends where your LEDs are now.

I love my setup currently, and the colors are fantastic.

big note here though
Don't expect lights to fix your colors. If you are having nutrient/stability issues, light will not make colors randomly happen. You need enough light AND need stable parameters. I would recommend dosing calcium and alkalinity 2 part with dosing pumps to add the stability. That's the only way you will get full color and nice growth out of SPS.

Please feel free to check out my build thread here (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2506377)to see how my tank is doing with the LED retrofit.

This mix would work as well. There really is not a perfect mix at this point. I believe that getting the most full spectrum and full coverage is what will serve our tanks the best when it comes to LED's. The most important thing is that your corals are happy under it. You liking the look is a close second.

i have never heard of this cyan.. im interested. maybe adding a new channel to my diy led, and i hope you are using fans on this, that many led and if they are 3w are going to put off some heat

Cyan is a widely used LED these days. Most manufacturers, like EcoTech and AI, are using it in their fixtures. It is a green hue at 505nm, but it has a little bit of a blue influence. It only takes a little bit to go a long way. Green (520nm) is the easiest wavelength for the human eye to see.

Here is a link to my latest LED build thread if you want to take a look. It is just a little bigger than your build. :lmao:

[tdtreefer]

Here is a link to my latest LED build thread if you want to take a look. It is just a little bigger than your build. :lmao:

ive seen your build just didnt know who i was speaking with, i cant get over the stand and canopy that you have, that stone is amazing, if i was in my house forever i would deff do something like that. but im only 20 and dont plan on staying with my parents forever:headwally: but i have been looking into making a finished case for a diy led, if i do that i will make it big enough that i can run two on the 6ft tank i have sitting in the garage, just use one on what im doing now, cut the cyan will deff be included. and violet, the 400-410nm really shows florescence. :beer:

[icy1155]

Ok, well some advice from someone who has run LED's over a SPS tank successfully for over 2 years.

My first recommendation is to get yourself a MakersLED heatsink. That heatsink allows you to cluster your LEDs, which will eliminate the "disco ball" effect that people complain about.

As far as colors go, my LED's are set up in clusters of containing:
1 - Cyan
1 - Cool Blue
1 - Deep Red
1 - Warm White
3 - Violet
3 - Neutral White
6 - Royal Blue

Each cluster has the Deep Red, Cyan and Cool Blue in the middle bordering each other. The reason for this is these three LEDs will combine and produce a white visible light, but that light will be much broader spectrum than an average white LED. Surrounding the three colored LEDs are the three violets. Together these six LEDs basically form a triangle. Around the edge of this triangle the Royal Blues and the whites go, alternating between the two.

[icy1155]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/icy1155/Mobile%20Uploads/11016741_792087528677_3693060165477097723_o.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/icy1155/media/Mobile%20Uploads/11016741_792087528677_3693060165477097723_o.jpg.html)

[icy1155]

You can see the reflection of the clusters in that pic.

[icy1155]

A cell phone fts also showing the clusters over my 180

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/icy1155/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0130.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/icy1155/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0130.jpg.html)

It doesn't do the colors justice since cameras in general hate LEDs, but you get the idea.

[Dans85]

Ok, well some advice from someone who has run LED's over a SPS tank successfully for over 2 years.

My first recommendation is to get yourself a MakersLED heatsink. That heatsink allows you to cluster your LEDs, which will eliminate the "disco ball" effect that people complain about.

As far as colors go, my LED's are set up in clusters of containing:
1 - Cyan
1 - Cool Blue
1 - Deep Red
1 - Warm White
3 - Violet
3 - Neutral White
6 - Royal Blue

Each cluster has the Deep Red, Cyan and Cool Blue in the middle bordering each other. The reason for this is these three LEDs will combine and produce a white visible light, but that light will be much broader spectrum than an average white LED. Surrounding the three colored LEDs are the three violets. Together these six LEDs basically form a triangle. Around the edge of this triangle the Royal Blues and the whites go, alternating between the two.

I'm using a heatsink USA t-slot heatsink with 3 cooling fans right now and it stays cool to the touch and I haven't had any issue with the disco effect. If I do have any heat issues, I have 2 fans from a computer that are pretty large that should provide plenty of cooling power.

As of right now, my sps corals (tri color acro and horn coral) seem to be very happy and growing, and I am getting great PE from both, just not much color, which is why I am looking at building a more full spectrum light.

[lpsouth1978]

A cell phone fts also showing the clusters over my 180

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/icy1155/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0130.jpg (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/icy1155/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0130.jpg.html)

I like the color of your lights, it is a little more purple than most LED's. However, I cannot help but notice MAJOR spotlighting and shadows with that build. It is like you have 3 spotlights right up top and then nothing anywhere else. This is the same reason I do not like the Radion fixtures (that and the price).

I absolutely agree that having the lights clustered together is a good idea, but I also put individual RB LED's around the entire light to help break up the spot lighting and provide actinic like supplementation. I like to have great coverage and use A LOT of LED's to accomplish that. My build has 18 pucks with 20 LED's each, AND 96 individual RB between all of the pucks. It appears to have completely eliminated the disco and spotlight effect, and virtually eliminated shadows so far. I do not have any corals in the tank so far, so we will see what happens once they are in.

I too have had success with SPS and corals. My recipe was A LOT of LED's with a full spectrum. That tank was 34 gallons and had 72 LED's in 8 different spectrums. Unfortunately I moved and sold that setup, but expect my new light to be just as effective or better.

To the OP, as I said before, there is really no perfect mix. Everyone will have their recommendations and ideas of works best, but there is still nothing that can be touted as the best or only way to go. You must decide what you like and what is best for your system. As long as your corals, and you, are happy, then the light is doing it's job.

[lpsouth1978]

ive seen your build just didnt know who i was speaking with, i cant get over the stand and canopy that you have, that stone is amazing, if i was in my house forever i would deff do something like that. but im only 20 and dont plan on staying with my parents forever:headwally: but i have been looking into making a finished case for a diy led, if i do that i will make it big enough that i can run two on the 6ft tank i have sitting in the garage, just use one on what im doing now, cut the cyan will deff be included. and violet, the 400-410nm really shows florescence. :beer:

You have me mixed up with someone else. I do not have a canopy and I have not used any stone in my build (other than live rock). I believe the system you are talking about is a 180g tank. Mine is a 300g. However, I must agree that the stone canopy and stand are stunning!

[lpsouth1978]

I'm using a heatsink USA t-slot heatsink with 3 cooling fans right now and it stays cool to the touch and I haven't had any issue with the disco effect. If I do have any heat issues, I have 2 fans from a computer that are pretty large that should provide plenty of cooling power.

As of right now, my sps corals (tri color acro and horn coral) seem to be very happy and growing, and I am getting great PE from both, just not much color, which is why I am looking at building a more full spectrum light.

I actually use the same heatsinks over my tank. I Love them! And they allow for easy upgrades and LED replacement in the future if needed. The best thing about them? They are much cheaper than the Makers LED heatsinks, which are basically the same thing.

[Dans85]

I actually use the same heatsinks over my tank. I Love them! And they allow for easy upgrades and LED replacement in the future if needed. The best thing about them? They are much cheaper than the Makers LED heatsinks, which are basically the same thing.
The reason I bought mine was for something like this. I knew that when I initially built the fixture that it probably wasn't going to be permanent and that I would want to change it up down the road. By using the heatsink that I have along with the thermal pads that rapidled sells, adding or removing anything from the fixture is really simple.

[icy1155]

I like the color of your lights, it is a little more purple than most LED's. However, I cannot help but notice MAJOR spotlighting and shadows with that build. It is like you have 3 spotlights right up top and then nothing anywhere else. This is the same reason I do not like the Radion fixtures (that and the price).

I absolutely agree that having the lights clustered together is a good idea, but I also put individual RB LED's around the entire light to help break up the spot lighting and provide actinic like supplementation. I like to have great coverage and use A LOT of LED's to accomplish that. My build has 18 pucks with 20 LED's each, AND 96 individual RB between all of the pucks. It appears to have completely eliminated the disco and spotlight effect, and virtually eliminated shadows so far. I do not have any corals in the tank so far, so we will see what happens once they are in.

I too have had success with SPS and corals. My recipe was A LOT of LED's with a full spectrum. That tank was 34 gallons and had 72 LED's in 8 different spectrums. Unfortunately I moved and sold that setup, but expect my new light to be just as effective or better.


The majority of the shading that you see is because of the aquascape and the corals growth. I do have a little shading below the cross braces, but otherwise the only spots that are shaded is where something overgrew the bottom. 12"x12" colonies tend to throw some shadows that weren't there 2 years ago when they were 1" frags.

It's not surprising that you would get some better coverage though, since you are using 2x more LEDs per square inch of surface area and don't have anything to shade yet.

As far as spotlighting, as I said, cameras hate LEDs. I cant seem to get a pic that actually represents what you see. The image was more to show the cluster layout I was talking about, not color.

[Dans85]

The majority of the shading that you see is because of the aquascape and the corals growth. I do have a little shading below the cross braces, but otherwise the only spots that are shaded is where something overgrew the bottom. 12"x12" colonies tend to throw some shadows that weren't there 2 years ago when they were 1" frags.

It's not surprising that you would get some better coverage though, since you are using 2x more LEDs per square inch of surface area and don't have anything to shade yet.

As far as spotlighting, as I said, cameras hate LEDs. I cant seem to get a pic that actually represents what you see. The image was more to show the cluster layout I was talking about, not color.

I do like the cluster idea. I think I might have enough room to make 2 clusters on the heatsink that I have. I'm not sure it's really necessary for such a small tank though....

[icy1155]

The nice part about the cluster is if you have Cool Blue, Cyan and Deep Red in the cluster next to each other it makes white visible light, but has the wavelengths of each individual LED added together. Its the idea behind the Ocean Coral White LED from LEDGroupbuy

[Dans85]

That's good to know. Thanks for all of the input so far!

[icy1155]

Huh? Clay-boa? Apparently the name either got filtered or auto corrected. I'll refrain from posting it again incase it got filtered.

[perkint]

It got auto filtered....

Tim

[Dans85]

Do you have any pictures or a diagram of the clusters icy? I'd like to see how they are laid out on your heatsink if that's possible. After doing some more research, I think that'll be the direction that I go.

[icy1155]

I'm headed to the Keys after work, but I'll try to put one up Sunday.

[Dans85]

Sounds good. Thanks a bunch :)

[Wazzel]

I am starting to think all you need is broad spectrum white and blue. I have been happy with the mix of diodes in the hydra 52 I am using, but most of the power comes from the blue and white banks (approx 86%). I am picking up a used tank with reef breeder photons tomorrow, I think I am going to role with them and see how it goes. I hear good things about them.

[Dans85]

I think over all you are probably right. That's why I'm going to give the clusters a shot. Not only is it white light, but it's a mixture of colors creating the white, that's about as broad of spectrum of white as you can get.

[lpsouth1978]

I think over all you are probably right. That's why I'm going to give the clusters a shot. Not only is it white light, but it's a mixture of colors creating the white, that's about as broad of spectrum of white as you can get.

I have to disagree with this statement. While I am not arguing the merits of using a mix of colors vs just blues and whites (i think a good mix is best, but have no evidence to support that), but using cyan, red, and blue to make white light, is FAR from full spectrum. On the contrary, it is exactly 3 wavelengths combined to give the appearance of white light. Depending on the LED's used it is 450nm (royal blue), 505nm (cyan), and 660nm (red). How is this full spectrum? You are missing everything between 400-449, 451-504, and 506-700nm, not to mention UV and IR. you are effectively saying that 3 out of more than 300 wavelengths is "about as broad of white as you can get".

That being said, I think the cluster idea is great as long as you have as many different wavelengths as possible. The difficulty is that there are approximately 12-15 different wavelengths available, and that would make for a very large cluster, even if you only used 1 of each wavelength. This is why most builds will incorporate 2-3 different white LED's. They produce some of the other wavelengths (like green, and red) without needing to use multiple diodes. This is also why many people prefer to use the neutral white instead of cool white, it contains more green and less blue. Simply put, 1 white diode is more full spectrum than the other 3 LED's combined.

I hope this makes sense to you. I would definitely suggest that you use the clusters, but at the very least include some white LED's as well.

[Dans85]

Well, sorry for my inaccurate statement. It made sense to me when I thought about, but I am by no means a light expert. I am planning on doing some thing very similar, if not the same, as what icy has. Thanks for your input. I definitely learned something from your post.

[lpsouth1978]

I think the clusters that icy has made would work quite well and you will be very happy with them.

[Dans85]

In my head I wasn't thinking about the white leds as being a combination of different spectrums. Most of the chips that I have looked at are sold as a specific spectrum, so that is what I was thinking of. You obviously have a lot more knowledge of this subject than I do, so once again I would like to think you for your help. This is one of the many reasons that I enjoy forums as much as I do.

[Dans85]

Did you ever get a chance to get a pic of your clusters, icy?

[Wazzel]

I think over all you are probably right. That's why I'm going to give the clusters a shot. Not only is it white light, but it's a mixture of colors creating the white, that's about as broad of spectrum of white as you can get.

You need to include a broad spectrum white in the cluster. Without it the light may look white, but there will be lots of gaps in the spectrum since the colored diodes are really narrow bands.

[e55driver]

So far a lot of great information in the thread.

[Dans85]

You need to include a broad spectrum white in the cluster. Without it the light may look white, but there will be lots of gaps in the spectrum since the colored diodes are really narrow bands.

That's the plan. Probably going to go with both neutral and warm white.