Hamilton Cebu or ATI Sunpower

[thomthom329]

Hello everyone,

I posted this in another forum as well and am hoping it's OK to post here as well as I'd like to get as much feedback as possible. If this is a no-no, mods, please feel free to delete and my apologies for breaking any rules.

That said, here goes.

I'm looking for some advice on a new light purchase.

I'm looking to purchase either a 48" Hamilton Cebu Sun MH/T5 or the 48" 8x54w ATI Sunpower T5. I've always used LEDs so I'm pretty clueless on MH and T5 technology and what might be best (and what I would prefer) for my 90 gallon (mostly) SPS tank. I'm looking for optimal growth and color (who isn't, right?!). :)

Also, when responding could you please include suggestions on which options would be best for each fixture? For example, for the Cebu, should I get the standard electronic ballast with 14K Hamilton bulbs, or an M80 ballast with 20K Radiums? Other suggestions?

Conversely, for the ATI, should I get the standard 8x54w fixture, or the dimmable one? And what about bulbs, what combination would you recommend for my setup? I can't even begin to guess which 8 bulbs would be optimal. Hoping someone can offer up some suggestions based on their own experience.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Pete

[d2mini]

I have the 72" Cebu.
I've never been a fan of the all T5 tanks due to lack of shadows.
But the new ATI T5/LED combo fixture is pretty sweet if you like the look of T5 lit tanks and you should get a little extra contrast and pop from the LEDs, but not much.
And there are some amazing T5 tanks out there than have a certain look I haven't seen with other lighting methods.

But I like my Cebu a lot. MH gives out a really nice shimmer and the T5's help fill in some shadows but not too much.
I went with the M80 ballasts and Radium bubls.
My current T5 combo is one Giesemann Super Actinic, two KZ Super Blue (I prefer over ATI Blue+) and one ATI Coral +.
To me, MH is the most natural/real looking but I know that's debatable/personal preference.



www.everydayreef.com

[dukduk]

Dennis, do you have a pic that is filtered to show what it looks like in real life? Is it mostly blue with your combo?

[d2mini]

All my pics are color corrected. :)

This is my build thread. You might want to start at the end and work yourself backwards.
I had LED and switched back to MH/T5 over a year ago. Lots of pics.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2144250

http://bluelemonphoto.smugmug.com/photos/i-M7Hd9Sd/0/X2/i-M7Hd9Sd-X2.jpg

[CJBuckeyes]

I've been doing a lot of research on this lately. I'm switching away from LEDs when I upgrade my tank soon, and I'll be going with the Cebu. Just distilling what I've learned from various forums and TOTMs:
- The radium SE bulb with an M80 ballast is hard to beat (the 175w DE has mixed reviews)
- The cebu reflector is not the most efficient, but works well for being an integrated T5/MH fixture
- Clownfish don't like bellyrubs

[thomthom329]

Thanks for the input. Regarding heat, I'm not so worried about tank heat as I have a chiller, but what about room temperature? My display is in my office (I typically work from home). Should I be concerned with the room becoming uncomfortably warm? I read somewhere that someone's room with MH lighting felt like a sauna in the summer months. That would be a deal breaker for sure.

Nice tank d2!

[Tweaked]

Cebu Sun running radiums on M80 ballasts supplemented with reefbrite strips here. Amazing light IMO

[solitude127]

I'm a T5 fan here. If you do decide to go with T5s, you can't go wrong with ATI. For me, I chose T5s because of heat and power consumption. Recently, I added a ReefBrite strip to my fixture and I'm more than ecstatic about the results. I can run more of 12k look but I still get the pop from my corals because of the RB strip.

[moondoggy4]

I would stay away from the dimmable ATI fixture I have heard that they have problems with that model. If I am wrong I hope someone will correct my mistake.

For MH I would go 250 with a M80 ballast, I have the 250 Phoniex 14k so far I do not like it to much, maybe still burning in, but my light is DE w/ 4 T-5's.

[Johnseye]

I would stay away from the dimmable ATI fixture I have heard that they have problems with that model. If I am wrong I hope someone will correct my mistake.

For MH I would go 250 with a M80 ballast, I have the 250 Phoniex 14k so far I do not like it to much, maybe still burning in, but my light is DE w/ 4 T-5's.

There were problems with the dimmable ATI Sunpower very early on from what I've read. I use mine to simulate sun-up/down and to phase in channels. I've never had a problem.

[Bpb]

Being a radiums user also I can say the colors of d2mini's pics looks about perfectly accurate to what you'll see in real life with those bulbs.

[jason78]

100% CEBU SUN. I just switched back a few months ago and I am already seeing way better color.

[KingTriton1]

ATI Sunpower IMO

[thomthom329]

I can see this is a pointless debate :) Everyone has their favorite and seems adamant that their way is the best. Just to clarify, in a standard 90G tank, will the ATI 8x54 Sunpower allow one to grow any coral, anywhere in the tank, or will there be some limitations?

Also, based on what I can tell, and note my research is somewhat limited, it looks like the ATI holds it's value better than the Cebu. Seems to me that the wisest choice would be to start with the ATI and see how I like it. If I'm not impressed, it looks like I can get most of my money back by selling the unit on these forums, then apply those funds to the Cebu? Does anyone see a fault in that logic?

Thanks,
Pete

[d2mini]

I can see this is a pointless debate :) Everyone has their favorite and seems adamant that their way is the best. Just to clarify, in a standard 90G tank, will the ATI 8x54 Sunpower allow one to grow any coral, anywhere in the tank, or will there be some limitations?

Also, based on what I can tell, and note my research is somewhat limited, it looks like the ATI holds it's value better than the Cebu. Seems to me that the wisest choice would be to start with the ATI and see how I like it. If I'm not impressed, it looks like I can get most of my money back by selling the unit on these forums, then apply those funds to the Cebu? Does anyone see a fault in that logic?

Thanks,
Pete
As I said earlier, it really comes down to personal preference.
Either fixture will grow the heck out of coral, no question.
T5 and MH just have two different looks. Once you decide which look you like better, that will answer your question of which to buy. :)

[jdraider75]

An 8 bulb sun power will grow acros on the sand. I have one over a 120 gallon and am pushing 290-300 part on sand bed with the bulb combo I run and fixture 8 inches above water. You could probably do the same with the cebu, but I don't own one so can't say for sure. Like Dennis said it's personal preference as to what look you want.

[davocean]

I can see this is a pointless debate :) Everyone has their favorite and seems adamant that their way is the best.
Pete

That is probably the one thing most can or should agree on!
Like many others I'm a combo guy, T5 and LED cover it for me.
So if it were me, and I have been here before, start w/ a T5 and plan that you may want to add LED strips to that later would be my advice.
Oh and one more word...
Geismann...
Don't count those out.

[Johnseye]

That is probably the one thing most can or should agree on!
Like many others I'm a combo guy, T5 and LED cover it for me.
So if it were me, and I have been here before, start w/ a T5 and plan that you may want to add LED strips to that later would be my advice.
Oh and one more word...
Geismann...
Don't count those out.

So I've been T5 and LED (strips) as well and I'm trying to figure out how I could run Radions with T5s but there doesn't seem to be an easy way with a 24in x48in tank. MH and Radions yes, but T5s are a challenge.

[thomthom329]

As I said earlier, it really comes down to personal preference.

Either fixture will grow the heck out of coral, no question.

T5 and MH just have two different looks. Once you decide which look you like better, that will answer your question of which to buy. :)


That's the problem. There's no way for me to really see the difference based on pics on the web. I have to just buy one and see how it goes. And knowing me, whichever I buy I'll be wondering if the other one is better. :)

[davocean]

Well I'll give one more hit on this, MH are warmer and less energy efficient, though I will admit nothing seems to match them in looks and growth, even our T5 LED combos are only close IMO.
I love T5's for growth, and the color is good but T5 alone may have nice color but will look flat w/out shimmer.
LEDs add PAR and shimmer, it's a really nice compromise.
Unless you are in an AC place and had no concern for energy bill I would not go to MH, and w/ the movement towards everything we know light wise going to LED I'm not sure how long we will have MH lamps, or what choices there may be in MH lamps.
(MH guys are going to go ballistic in 1...2...:uhoh3:

So having said my opinion, and it is mostly that based on some inside knowledge, I'd say you can't go wrong w/ a nice T5 setup and expect to want strips later for shimmer and fine tune of color as well as added PAR
I have not regretted that decision.
And if you wish to go bold and do what I would do if I had budget just get a hybrid T5/LED, the ATI's are really nice.

[thomthom329]

Unless you are in an AC place and had no concern for energy bill I would not go to MH, and w/ the movement towards everything we know light wise going to LED I'm not sure how long we will have MH lamps, or what choices there may be in MH lamps.
(MH guys are going to go ballistic in 1...2...:uhoh3:

So there appears to be some differing opinions regarding energy costs. Several have said the difference is negligible, but your comments seem to suggest otherwise. Am I really saving that much by going straight T5? I'd probably add Reef Brite strips rather than go with the ATI LED/T5. I simply won't pay $2K for a light fixture (not all at once, at least). :)

[KingTriton1]

Seriously. The price for the new powermodules is just insane. I like them separate anyways instead of an all in one.

[Johnseye]

Problem I see with the Powermodules is you can't control the led colors. That's what makes the Radions so appealing.

[smartandfast]

Problem I see with the Powermodules is you can't control the led colors. That's what makes the Radions so appealing.
Where do u read that ati led color,can't be control? Do you personally own the fixture?

[Johnseye]

I may be wrong. I see 4 colors; 2 blues a red and a white. 100% dimmable.

[davocean]

So there appears to be some differing opinions regarding energy costs. Several have said the difference is negligible, but your comments seem to suggest otherwise. Am I really saving that much by going straight T5? I'd probably add Reef Brite strips rather than go with the ATI LED/T5. I simply won't pay $2K for a light fixture (not all at once, at least). :)

It can vary between setups, I mean if you have one MH in an open top/no canopy or something of that nature it might not be that bad.
If you have a series enclosed, that could add up, if need for a chiller then it suddenly becomes a different situation alltogether.
Since I went to T5's and LEDs I no longer needed a chiller, so for me it was much more practical.
Most seem to agree T5's grow coral plenty well, it's just that flat no shimmer look that robs your tank from being all it should or could be IMO.

[thomthom329]

It can vary between setups, I mean if you have one MH in an open top/no canopy or something of that nature it might not be that bad.

If you have a series enclosed, that could add up, if need for a chiller then it suddenly becomes a different situation alltogether.

Since I went to T5's and LEDs I no longer needed a chiller, so for me it was much more practical.

Most seem to agree T5's grow coral plenty well, it's just that flat no shimmer look that robs your tank from being all it should or could be IMO.


Totally get that setup differences vary, but I'm comparing the 48" Cebu sun with an ATI 8x54. It will be suspended from the ceiling so no canopy, and I already have a chiller. Can I expect grossly more energy use from the Cebu over the ATI? I'm all about saving money, and the price point for an ATI is more attractive, but is my monthly bill really going to be that much different?

[d2mini]

That's the problem. There's no way for me to really see the difference based on pics on the web. I have to just buy one and see how it goes. And knowing me, whichever I buy I'll be wondering if the other one is better. :)

You don't have your location filled out in your profile.
Is there no one near you, even an LFS that has different light setups?
There is a distinct difference between the two.
MH is contrasty with more shadows and lots of shimmer.
To me the MH has a look that would be more similar to shallow waters in real life.
No shimmer with T5 and its very flat/even spread of light.
T5 seems to have the ability to produce some real pastel easter colors with sps.
And its easy to play with spectrum by changing out bulbs.
Look up krzysztof's tank for what most T5 users strive for.
JPMagyar has some great pics of his MH tank.

[Reefvet]

Unless you are in an AC place and had no concern for energy bill I would not go to MH, and w/ the movement towards everything we know light wise going to LED I'm not sure how long we will have MH lamps, or what choices there may be in MH lamps.


+1 on the energy usage and the inevitable demise of MH bulbs.

I ran MH for years, and yes, wonderful light. Now I'm all LEDs and one T5 tank left. After 40 years in the hobby there's nothing I can't grow under LEDs.

I'm holding onto all those unused MH bulbs in my garage. In a couple of years they'll be on ebay as part of my retirement plan :eek2:

[Bpb]

I thought the OP was asking for opinions between two very specific light products, not what direction lighting tech is going

[Tweaked]

You don't have your location filled out in your profile.
Is there no one near you, even an LFS that has different light setups?
There is a distinct difference between the two.
MH is contrasty with more shadows and lots of shimmer.
To me the MH has a look that would be more similar to shallow waters in real life.
No shimmer with T5 and its very flat/even spread of light.
T5 seems to have the ability to produce some real pastel easter colors with sps.
And its easy to play with spectrum by changing out bulbs.
Look up krzysztof's tank for what most T5 users strive for.
JPMagyar has some great pics of his MH tank.

This. Two completely different looks and really don't care for all t5 lit tanks. All just preference and really think seeing is believing.

[thomthom329]

I've decided to pull the trigger on the 48" Cebu Sun w/ M80s & Radiums. Any suggestions on how i should acclimate the tank to the new light? Also, what is the 'burn in' period people mention?

[d2mini]

I've decided to pull the trigger on the 48" Cebu Sun w/ M80s & Radiums. Any suggestions on how i should acclimate the tank to the new light? Also, what is the 'burn in' period people mention?

When I switched from LED, i ran the MH for a max of 4 hours to start. Every few days I bumped it another 15 minutes. For the T5's, you should be able to run actinic for as long as you normally would. Other bulbs like blue+ or daylight bulbs you may want to run a little shorter than normal, too. Your coral can deal with a few cloudy days no problem. ;)

Don't worry about burn in. I honestly have no idea what they are talking about. lol
Radiums look great from the start.
I think you'll be very happy with your choice.

[Tweaked]

Extremely happy with choice. What t5 colors are you thinking? Great job going for the m80s with radiums. I love to pop the coral so I went with 3 pure actinics and one purple plus.

Welcome to the club :thumbsup:

[d2mini]

I love to pop the coral so I went with 3 pure actinics and one purple plus.



All that PLUS your blue reefbrite strip? Is the tank really blue/purple?

My t5 combo doesn't look all that much different than my Radiums, just duller.
I have the Geisemann Super Actinic and KZ Super Blue come on first, and then an hour later the other KZ Super Blue and ATI Coral+ come on. Reverse at night.
When all T5 and MH are on it has that crisp white with a hint of blue like pictured on the previous page.... it just looks brighter/more intense in real life.

[thomthom329]

Extremely happy with choice. What t5 colors are you thinking? Great job going for the m80s with radiums. I love to pop the coral so I went with 3 pure actinics and one purple plus.



Welcome to the club :thumbsup:


When I spoke to the Hamilton rep last night, they suggested 2 blue and 2 purple t5's but no other specifics. Fixture won't ship for a couple of weeks yet. Should I change the t5 order?

[d2mini]

When I spoke to the Hamilton rep last night, they suggested 2 blue and 2 purple t5's but no other specifics. Fixture won't ship for a couple of weeks yet. Should I change the t5 order?

I would leave it.
Get it set up and live with it for a few days and see what you think.
Then you can start playing with color. You might decide you want more blue, less pink, more white, etc.
It all comes down to personal preference.
The bulk of the heavy lifting is done by the MH, the T5 are just supplemental.

[thomthom329]

I have the Geisemann Super Actinic and KZ Super Blue come on first, and then an hour later the other KZ Super Blue and ATI Coral+ come on. Reverse at night.
When all T5 and MH are on it has that crisp white with a hint of blue like pictured on the previous page.... it just looks brighter/more intense in real life.


I swear, while LEDs are hard to get dialed in correctly, which can be a bit overwhelming/frustrating, all of these bulb and ballast options take the cake! Sounds like your combo is what I'm looking for as I prefer a hint of blue, not a dominant blue. How are your bulbs positioned in the fixture? Feels like I should know that answer but frankly, this is all still Greek to me! :)

So the

[thomthom329]

I would leave it.

Get it set up and live with it for a few days and see what you think.

Then you can start playing with color. You might decide you want more blue, less pink, more white, etc.

It all comes down to personal preference.

The bulk of the heavy lifting is done by the MH, the T5 are just supplemental.


Great. One less thing to think about right now.

Thanks for all the help folks! Much appreciated. I'll post some pics once I get the lights up and running.

[thomthom329]

Hmm, just got an email from Hamilton indicating the M80 ballast is only for 250W bulbs, so they are going to switch the order to an M135. Is that right???

[thomthom329]

The chart in this link seems to suggest the 20K Radiums work with the M135 ballast as well: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php

[thomthom329]

Ok, just spoke to the rep again and maybe I'm a little confused by the recommendations. I assumed I should be getting a 400W setup with M80 ballasts and 20K Radiums. Is that not right? Am I looking for a 250W setup instead? My tank is 24" deep so I don't want to burn anything up, but as with anything in this hobby, I usually opt to go bigger than recommended. Is that a mistake with this light?

[Tweaked]

All that PLUS your blue reefbrite strip? Is the tank really blue/purple?

My t5 combo doesn't look all that much different than my Radiums, just duller.
I have the Geisemann Super Actinic and KZ Super Blue come on first, and then an hour later the other KZ Super Blue and ATI Coral+ come on. Reverse at night.
When all T5 and MH are on it has that crisp white with a hint of blue like pictured on the previous page.... it just looks brighter/more intense in real life.

I really like the pop and I am coral packed right now lol. I like the blue look personally and run the halides when I'm at work so I really never see anything but.

[d2mini]

Ok, just spoke to the rep again and maybe I'm a little confused by the recommendations. I assumed I should be getting a 400W setup with M80 ballasts and 20K Radiums. Is that not right? Am I looking for a 250W setup instead? My tank is 24" deep so I don't want to burn anything up, but as with anything in this hobby, I usually opt to go bigger than recommended. Is that a mistake with this light?

250w is plenty for a 24" deep tank.
That's what I have.

[thomthom329]

Ok, so I will change my order to 250W, M80 ballasts w/ 20K Radiums. Thanks for clarifying.

[CJBuckeyes]

D2Mini, do you have the m57 or the m80 ballast?

The M57 comes standard with the Cebu. I tried to order a Cebu the other day with an M80 instead of the M57 and got this message from Hamilton:

"We do not have the M80 ballast currently in stock until 7/24/15 for that reason we are unable to offer it with our system."

[thomthom329]

D2Mini, do you have the m57 or the m80 ballast?

The M57 comes standard with the Cebu. I tried to order a Cebu the other day with an M80 instead of the M57 and got this message from Hamilton:

"We do not have the M80 ballast currently in stock until 7/24/15 for that reason we are unable to offer it with our system."

They told me the same thing so my unit is on pre-order until it is back in stock.

[Tweaked]

Yep they come with the 57 and I bought the 80s after the fact a couple years ago. I did just add the second ReefBrite XHO strip making the light the best you will find IMO. All technologies in one unit. As shown before, there are unused screws that allow for the ReefBrite XHO strips to bolt right up and really look factory installed.

[Tweaked]

Now have front and back strip installed for the complete look

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg485/TweakedS10/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-08/C7752C43-4CE6-4F85-8410-427D0B1B3A3B_zpsf2ts9scg.jpg (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/TweakedS10/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-08/C7752C43-4CE6-4F85-8410-427D0B1B3A3B_zpsf2ts9scg.jpg.html)

[d2mini]

Got mine with the M80's.

[wicz101]

There were problems with the dimmable ATI Sunpower very early on from what I've read. I use mine to simulate sun-up/down and to phase in channels. I've never had a problem.
+1, love my ATI sunpower dimmerable... puts out a good amount