AI 26s vs AI 52s over a 120g 4ft tank

[David520]

I want to get some opinions for a friend. The LFS store sold him 2 hydras 26s for his 120g 4ft tank and he wants to have a mixed reef, would you think this is adequate enough for his tank? He also has alot of live rock. Thanks

[kenpau]

Definitely not. On a 5ft tank I am running 3 52s and that is not enough after measuring the PAR. Your friend is effectively running 1 Hydra 52 over a 4ft tank.
The optical angle on these lights isn't great and you get a very steep drop off as you move away from the centre point of the lights, for this reason I would suggest that your friend would need a minimum of 3 52s on a 4ft tank if they want SPS. For softies two 26s might do the job....LPS I'd lean towards two 52s minimum.

[Wazzel]

Depends on what he wants to keep. Having the 26's will limit flexibility on what and where corals can be placed. SPS will have to go high and right under the fixture only. LPS will have to be close to the fixture. If I were putting this tank together I would go with 2 52's. If it was going to be more SPS and less mixed 3 52's. The 52's cover 24 x 18 well, the 26's are more like 20 x 18.

Do not take that as a bash. I run both 52's and 26's in my system and the work great if you know the limitations.

[gcarroll]

Definitely not. On a 5ft tank I am running 3 52s and that is not enough after measuring the PAR. Your friend is effectively running 1 Hydra 52 over a 4ft tank.In reality, 2 Hydra 26s (90w x 2 = 180w) is stronger than 1 Hydra 52 (130w). Will 2 Hydra 26s work on a mixed reef, sure. He can always add a third to increase PAR and limit shadowing.

[SahuaritaMike]

I think you are leaving a lot of important information out. The tank in question is actually a 100 gallon tank with dimension of 48"x21"x18" tank which is a lot different than your standard 48x24x24 120 gallon. Second when was the debate ever about comparing hydra 26's and hydra 52's? I am the LFS setting up the tank and after discussing with the customer his budget and actually having him in my store pointing out the type of corals he likes it was determined that the hydra 26's were a good fit budget wise.

[Wazzel]

At 21" wide and 18" tall the 26, will do just fine. Two will have a hard time covering the 48" length. Starting with two would probably be fine, but recommending the frame instead of the arms would be the way to go so a unit can be added down the line. I run both the 52 and the 26 and neither cover 24" well in the short axis from what I am seeing. Might be able to use 2 only if it in hung and run in the axis of the tank.

[David520]

I was told by the owner that he was sold a 120g not a 100g so I gave the information that was given to me. I would also like to add that he is thinking now that he might need a third light, why not offer him to look on this site for some used hydra 52s that would give perfect spread over his tank and would cost the same as 3 new 26s or offer a different LED fixture all together that would cover his whole tank rather than selling him something that he would inevitably have to upgrade. I wouldnt want to have to centrally locate most of my corals directly below the lights and have too many shadows on both corners of the tank. Keep in mind the owner of the tank is just getting into the hobby and has already had mishaps from the build and yes they were corrected. I just feel he was steered the wrong direction and could have offered better advice. The comparison is for information purposes, to see if buying 3 26s vs 2 52s is or going to be worth it to cover his tank.

[gcarroll]

I just don't see where the bad advise is. The solution the LFS offered worked within the customer's budget and also allowed for a future upgrade of simply adding another unit.

And you really didn't just ask a LFS why he didn't recommend the customer to go out and buy used equipment instead of new? And if if you did, i hope you don't expect an answer. Aren't they in the business to sell product?

[Jmnazari]

Are you sure your intention isn't that he should buy some used 52s instead? I've discussed different lighting options with the customer. T5s would be a good fit, but I don't see a push for a used T5 fixture. I've certainly discussed this with the guy, however he doesn't like: the heat output, bulb replacement cost, or the electrical cost. Metal halides will do fine over the tank, and some there are some deals on used MH fixtures, yet I don't see a push on those either. I did discuss however, the MH option, however the same issues with T5s occur: bulb and electric cost, heat, and further more; no cool features like sunrise sunset. I've even discussed used LEDs as an option! However, there are still problems with that scenario: third party sales/ used equipment can be faulty. What if he had bought a used 52 for $500, and little did he know, that light could've fell in the water by the previous owner! At least if something is bought new and there is an issue, he could take the product back to the LFS for a replacement free of charge! Working at a fish store, I've seen this happen! We have even offered a temporary light free of charge, to ensure a customer's tank remains in status quo while the light is out for repair or whatever! Never seen that from a third party though. Back to the OP; you said the LFS said it was a 120, however on your Facebook comments you made 24 hours ago, you clearly mentioned the tank was a 100. Then you retorted with saying that's what the LFS sold it as. If you don't clearly know the size of tank, why rush to insult and call out that LFS? Further more, if you care to: explain why there would be shadows in the tank? Lights will be mounted via AI suspension cables with the rail kit between the lights. If par is 50-150 with the 26s in a 24" deep tank, how would the edges be dark if the tank is less than 24" deep? The buyer surely will not be growing acropora colonies in the sand bed in the corners of the tank, so what would a PAR of 200 be not enough light in those areas? So with all that said, yes, 52s would be a better fit, but possibly overkill for a newbie. I've set up at least 2 dozen tanks with different Hydra setups, all with raging reviews and flourishing coral! Don't you think that if the LFS wanted to rip off the customer, they would've recommended the 52s instead?! Three 26s would still be cheaper than 2 used 52s! Now, does anybody else want to grab this stick? I'm tired of beating this dead horse with it!:debi: :deadhorse1:

[David520]

Not completely bad advice, but could have given better advice or explain he would probably need more. The only thing I can see is if my fellow reefer went in and specifically asked for those lights and didn't budge on changing his mind and yeah your right I forget sometimes that hobbyist turned business man wouldn't send you to buy used equipment to help you start the hobby.

[oldbones]

I'm with Jmnazari. Unless it's an SPS only tank, two 26's will do a nice job. If the spread becomes an issue down the road, adding a third will surely do the trick.

For reference, I'm in the beginning stages of stocking a new, custom, 56 gal setup. It's 34x19x20, and since I already had one AI Prime, I decided to try two over the new tank. Until I empty out the old tank, I still have one over each, and it's actually quite impressive how well one Prime is lighting this 56 gal tank, and so far I'm only peaking my brightest channels at 30%! I'll be very surprised if it ever comes to be that two Primes won't be enough.

[David520]

Just to clearify, it was mentioned it was a 100+ gallon tank to protect the identity of the owner and the LFS was never mentioned. My friend said it was a 120g so I went with what he told me and HIS concerns. I would have sold him "Chinese LEDs" to start with and let him save up to buy what he really wanted. It just amazes how I get trolled by lfs on two sites for asking "OTHER" people's opinion, I understand you feel the need to defend yourselves but like I said the LFS was never mentioned and wanted other people to reflect.

[gcarroll]

Just to clearify, it was mentioned it was a 100+ gallon tank to protect the identity of the owner and the LFS was never mentioned. My friend said it was a 120g so I went with what he told me and HIS concerns. I would have sold him "Chinese LEDs" to start with and let him save up to buy what he really wanted. It just amazes how I get trolled by lfs on two sites for asking "OTHER" people's opinion, I understand you feel the need to defend yourselves but like I said the LFS was never mentioned and wanted other people to reflect.Trust me, if you said he was building a full blown SPS reef, I might have recommended the 52s but you said mixed reef. And believe me, I know what it takes to grow and color up SPS and to be truthful, light is overrated.

And you talk about the LFS giving bad advice. You would have sold him cheap Chinese fixtures which he would end up storing in his garage (because resale value on those is pathetic!), so then that $400-$500 is virtually thrown away. Then spend the money all over again to buy a quality light. Wow. All I can say is I hope he reads this thread!

[kenpau]

In reality, 2 Hydra 26s (90w x 2 = 180w) is stronger than 1 Hydra 52 (130w). Will 2 Hydra 26s work on a mixed reef, sure. He can always add a third to increase PAR and limit shadowing.

Ah ok, I wasn't aware there was that difference in power. All I can tell you is my experience with AI Hydra52s and that is that they are very good lights. However they are very powerful and very focussed. I had a huge drop off in PAR as I moved away from directly below the lights. The problem with this being that my acropora will grow directly up but won't branch out. So if the OP wants to keep anything other than LPS directly below the light then I would definitely be looking at 52s.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7681/17544538460_c358b3de74_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/sJmm3q)14k100 (https://flic.kr/p/sJmm3q) by kenpau01 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/72958087@N05/), on Flickr

You can see from my picture that they provide plenty of PAR and the 26s will be the same, but to reach all areas in the tank I would need to add another fixture and turn them all into parallel instead of series to get sufficient spread throughout the tank. Instead I am selling up and going with a different fixture.

I still maintain that unless the customer is just looking at softies then he will struggle with two 26s on a 4ft tank. However I understand that budget plays a bigger part than anything else and it is something he can add to.
On all the successful LED lit reef tanks on here you will see that A LOT of fixtures are used to get the lighting required for healthy growth and colouration.

[Chavito]

Just to clearify, it was mentioned it was a 100+ gallon tank to protect the identity of the owner and the LFS was never mentioned. My friend said it was a 120g so I went with what he told me and HIS concerns. I would have sold him "Chinese LEDs" to start with and let him save up to buy what he really wanted. It just amazes how I get trolled by lfs on two sites for asking "OTHER" people's opinion, I understand you feel the need to defend yourselves but like I said the LFS was never mentioned and wanted other people to reflect.

I see all of the intentions here. Not necessarily to help a reefer, but instead to jump at any opportunity and give a bad name to LFS while also selling his own used 52's. Right? This reefer we are talking about is not new. He is back in the hobby after a few years. I know because I am his cousin. Now if this "mentor" was trying to be helpful why not provide advice 1-1 instead of opening a hornets nest, and then removing the accompanying link? The trolling was initiated by the original author last night then fellow reefers provided insight and reflected on how this setup would work. We beat the horse for 24 hours already. This is pretty pathetic because we are all grown reefers, even though the LFS was not mentioned it does not take rocket science to read between the lines. My suggestion...stop with the B.S, lets move on, enjoy our fantastic hobby and please don't bring up these childish tactics again. I personally do not like the anonymity of Facebook/forum, so if you want to meet and talk this over we can do so over some beers and hash this out. :beer:

[kenpau]

This is pretty pathetic because we are all grown reefers

Sorry who are you calling pathetic here??