Redspot Cardinal breeding / incubation period

[AkoAung]

I have had a group of redspot cardinals for a few months now. They have been spawning now and then, but males typically do not hold eggs that long. I have one that's been holding eggs for about 5-6 days now.

Would the experts here have any idea what the typical incubation period is for the non-bangaii cardinals?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23834538&postcount=194

[gogo7]

i like this one. i'm no expert on cardinals, but i'm interested in what you're doing. is this the first time for them?

[AkoAung]

hi gogo. this fish would be perfect for nanos though picos might be a stretch. seems to prefer low flow, and aren't strong swimmers. no it isn't the first time they've been breeding. but it is the first time a male has held eggs this long. the babies will likely get eaten once hatched though. I have no experience rearing salt water fish larvae. just getting more and more curious since he's holding it this long.

[gogo7]

hi gogo. this fish would be perfect for nanos though picos might be a stretch. seems to prefer low flow, and aren't strong swimmers. no it isn't the first time they've been breeding. but it is the first time a male has held eggs this long. the babies will likely get eaten once hatched though. I have no experience rearing salt water fish larvae. just getting more and more curious since he's holding it this long.

i think this is kinda cool. if you can catch them, i'd be really interested in your results. i've got a few more questions ako.
how shallow would you recommend for these guys. i've seen them in the lfs, kinda pricey here in kw. and i thought about using them or similar species in a super shallow. 9" with 1" sand. not sure of the dimensions yet, but probably about 20" square.
how long have they been sexually active? are they in your 18?
all the best.
gogo

[kizanne]

my understanding but not personal experience is Cardinals that aren't Banggai will incubate eggs 7 or 8 days and then the larva are pelagic. Banggai keep the pelagic stage in their mouth another 14-20 days. So if they are holding 5-6 days he may actually be releasing them if your a day or two off.

[AkoAung]

i think this is kinda cool. if you can catch them, i'd be really interested in your results. i've got a few more questions ako.
how shallow would you recommend for these guys. i've seen them in the lfs, kinda pricey here in kw. and i thought about using them or similar species in a super shallow. 9" with 1" sand. not sure of the dimensions yet, but probably about 20" square.
how long have they been sexually active? are they in your 18?
all the best.
gogo

yeah thanks. I am just trying to contribute to body of knowledge on these little fishes. They began carrying eggs when the size got to about just under 1" length. So almost immediately once they got established in the tank. I posted my observations in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1739827

8 inch depth is probably fine. They are a mid to upper strata fish and seems to enjoy the more open parts of the water.

Just three important observations I've made - flow, companion fishes, and water quality.

They seem to be weak swimmers and do not seem to like strong flow (though others have kept them in strong flow SPS tanks). They are in my fairly mature 60 gallon cube which until recently only had 2-3 ancient koralias and a DC3000 (800G/hr at max) as the main providers of flow. I added a Jebao RW4 and quite frankly they stay in low flow corners if I run the wavemaker at normal modes. Only when I have it off, or have it on the lowest speed at the W1 mode (which gives these tiniest of bursts of water movement) do they swim a bit more freely.

companion fish. I have only 2 sunburst anthias as their long time companions and recent addition of the long nose butterflyfish. I believe the sunburst anthias being slightly larger keeps them swimming in packs or "school". If that's the behaviour you want to see, I'd suggest having another fish in there which is slightly larger but non-threatening. Or a bigger fish with tiniest of mouth, like the long nose butterfly.

A local friend put a school into her tank. the higher levels of nitrates in her tank resulted in their early demise though other fishes seem tolerant of the water condition.

finally on pricing - a local LFS in western suburb of Toronto carries them from time to time at similar pricing to live aquaria. they usually begin bringing them in starting in the fall. send me a message and I'll tell you which store.

[AkoAung]

my understanding but not personal experience is Cardinals that aren't Banggai will incubate eggs 7 or 8 days and then the larva are pelagic. Banggai keep the pelagic stage in their mouth another 14-20 days. So if they are holding 5-6 days he may actually be releasing them if your a day or two off.

You are quite right on that. the male seems to have released the fry on 7th day. but no sign of the tiny fry so I assume they have been consumed by the fishes.

[kizanne]

So now you just have to figure out how to catch them. If you know how long he holds that helps because you know what day to watch. Do you have a refugium?

[AkoAung]

yes I have a refugium. you mean put the male there?

[kizanne]

Well after you know he is holding put him in there.

I don't know how your refugium is set up but mine is a peaceful, low flow with copepods and amphipods. When he releases there would be no fish to eat the larva and mine I don't think they'd go over the over flow. I have some rather large amphipods so not sure they would be safe but it's a start unless you spring for a larva collector.

[AkoAung]

yeah good idea.