basement floor not level - trying to run 12 feet of tanks....help

[bridun22ajl]

My basement is a concrete slab with sump pumps in adjecent corners and a french drain. I am trying to set up 3 tanks 4' long each. the problem is the basemtn is pitched to the sump pump and I need it to be level. I am using iron stands and if i use shims I will need about 2" of shim on the last tank.

I think my only option is to pour a slab on top of my slab just for the tanks. Does anyone else have any other ideas? If not, can anyone point me in the direction for pouring a level slab on top of concrete? I have never done this before.

Thanks.

[tennesseebob]

no need, build a wooden stand first, get 12' boards to use as runners, and then some 2 x 4s to use as cross braces. you are looking to build a ladder of sorts.

now set one end on the high side of the floor, the other end will need 2 legs tall enough to bring it to level.

after that cut more legs and place them every 2 feet or so, front and back, after that cover with a sheet of 1/2 plywood.

now, put your metal stand on top of this short level stage you just built.

also, if your basement is prone to leaking i would use treated lumber and stainless steel screws...just in case.

[davocean]

You could shim, rip a board offset to account for slope, or do what I just did, pour a thin concrete slab in place.
I laid down heavy plastic first so it will come right up when I ever move.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/SCA%20120g/mudstone2_zps4u6ycnxi.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/SCA%20120g/mudstone2_zps4u6ycnxi.jpg.html)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/SCA%20120g/mudstone%203_zpsbyvl0ree.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/SCA%20120g/mudstone%203_zpsbyvl0ree.jpg.html)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/SCA%20120g/octocab%205_zpsaqb3zkwe.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/SCA%20120g/octocab%205_zpsaqb3zkwe.jpg.html)

[Reefwithareefer]

For the space you are building up, will it matter if the slab ends up level? From the sounds of it, it should not matter. If not, I suggest you go to a Home Depot type store and buy what is called " floor levelling compound" it is usually around 30 bucks a bag. You will need to figure out how many bags or the guys at HD can help. Google how to use it and then mix it up and pour it on your floor.
Before you do that, you may need to make a form to hold it into a certain prescribed area. I also suggest that you clean the existing concrete floor with a muratic acid, so the floor levelling compound will adhere to the existing floor properly. Also make sure you buy a high strength floor levelling compound. It is worth the few extra bucks to be sure it does not crack from the weight.

The problem with using wood is as suggested above, is that wood will be quite difficult to level etc properly, so the tanks do not crack etc. Wood will also hold moisture from any humidity and spillage. Which , depending on what you use, may allow mold to grow or wood rot etc. wood will/may also compress if you install it incorrectly. IE: using 2x4s on the side.

Flooring levelling compound is super easy and quick to do. Cutting wedges etc to try and level the wood can be super tedious and usually ends up being a mess unless you have the skills and experience to do it properly


Lol We were obviously writing the same thing. So what he is showing in the pics

[daveM100]

Both good ideas thx lol. I may need them also.

[bridun22ajl]

@reefwithareefer -
what do you mean does it matter if the slab ends up level? My main problem is the each tank drops about 1" from the first tank so yes, i need the slab to be level. the 3rd tank is 2.5" lower than the first tank. This is making it look terrible and also, very hard to plumb together.

The Self leveling compound seems like a good option but how to do contain it to one area? I could frame out a box but what is stopping it from escaping form the bottom of the frame?

Thanks for you help everyone.

[davocean]

What I did on mine was put down plastic and I also siliconed where the form boards meet the plastic, that kept in concrete.
You can see that in first pic if you look.
I used quick set high strentgh crete, I'm not sure how deep you can build up the self leveling compound, I was under the impression that is for smaller deviations, but I'm a carpenter, not a crete guy, don't know for sure if you can push that to 2" deep or not.

[Reefwithareefer]

I was unsure if you cared if it was a permanent solution, how much area would be levelled as it would not drain water away quickly if level, and if doing as I mentioned would cause the drain to be blocked etc etc. just things to consider before going this route.

As for holding it in the form...there are a few options. First is the way that davoceans pics show. His way will allow for easy dismantling in the future as well as hold the levelling compound from going thru the formwork, and keep the levelling compound from adhering to your existing concrete floor (plastic/poly holds concrete floor levelling compound and makes it impossible to adhere to your existing floor.) I know there are products that can go that deep, but they are usually not found at a hardware store.



FYI....The levelling compound will be mixed with water so it is almost as thin as water. Very liquid.

If the temp way of davoceans does not suit and you want a more permanent solution, then do the formwork without the dividers. Other wards make the form into a rectangle/square frame without any wood inside it as a divider.
You will not need cut the wood so it is level on top. If your floor slopes less than 2" from end to end of where you want tanks placed, then use 2"x2" wood. If it slopes more, than use 2x4 and build frame so the 2x4 will sit on its edge when placed on floor. You do not need to cut wood, because the levelling compound self levels because it is mixed to a liquid state like water and water self levels when placed horizontally. The frame is only to hold the compound from flowing all over the place. Think of making a cake...

Now Lay the frame where you want it exactly. Take a pencil and trace the edges of the wood frame onto the floor. Then get some pl400/ premium or something similar. It comes in tubes like caulking. It is a well known adhesive. Put a dab at each corner and a few dabs every 3 or 4 ft on top of the frame where it lays. Now pick up frame, turn it over, place it back down (pl400 side now facing down)where you marked it out with the pencil. Wait an hour or so till the glue dries. Do not use too much pl400, it is a strong adhesive and you want to be able to remove the wood frame from the floor after you pour levelling compound. Small dabs here and there is all you need. (Take a small piece of wood, put a dab on it. Place it on the floor where you will eventually pour compound, let it dry and see how hard it can be to remove. This will give you an idea of how little/ much you need.)

While pl400 dries, take any fast drying caulking,( latex or silicone is fine )and caulk the inside edges of the wood frame, where it touches your concrete floor. This will seal the frame so the levelling compound will not flow thru bottom of frame. Wait an hour or so, then mix up compound. Before pouring it into the frame, I would wet down the floor with water, inside the frame, then pour compound into frame. Wetting the floor helps the floor levelling compound to adhere to your existing floor better. Just enough water to wet floor, but not make puddles. Like mopping a floor....

Let the compound cure/dry 24 hours before putting a lot of weight on it. Once the compound is hard to touch (approx6hrs), take apart frame. If compound is not set enough you will "chip/crack" the compound when removing frame, so do not be impatient. You can always remove frame the next day. Just nice to get it before the pl400 really sets hard.

I hope this makes sense. It will not take long and is quite easy. Just follow instructions on the bag of floor levelling compound!


As a side note, make the wood frame by using screws. This way you can unscrew them when you want to take apart frame...makes it much easier. One screw per corner is good enough.

One other thing...you may want to mark out a straight line, where the frame will sit. If it is 12 ft long, the wood frame may be warped and create an edge that goes in and out...may look ugly with an edge that is not straight is all.

Oh....some compounds can only be placed at certain depths at a time, so you may have to pour a few layers on top of each after each layer has dried/ cured. For this purpose you can probably get away pouring it 2.5" deep in one shot. May take quite a bit longer to dry. Try to find a product that is made to be placed that deep if possible. I know they make products for up to 3" deep, but hardware stores do not usually carry it. Specialty concrete supplier will carry it, target is one manufacturer that should make it. Call them for a local supplier


@reefwithareefer -
what do you mean does it matter if the slab ends up level? My main problem is the each tank drops about 1" from the first tank so yes, i need the slab to be level. the 3rd tank is 2.5" lower than the first tank. This is making it look terrible and also, very hard to plumb together.

The Self leveling compound seems like a good option but how to do contain it to one area? I could frame out a box but what is stopping it from escaping form the bottom of the frame?

Thanks for you help everyone.

[Windy2]

This is getting way too complicated. Cut several lengths of 1 x 4 slightly wider than your metal stands. The first stand will only need I board and it will be shared by the second stand. On the last side of the second stand place 2 of these boards under the legs of stand two and three under the last set of legs for tank 3. This will raise each successive stand 3/4" of an inch in relation to the last, giving an over all lift to the last one of 2.25" IF that is not what you need, adjust the thickness of the boards. For instance using 5/8" plywood for the strips, you will get an overall lift of 1 7/8". If you have metal stands, you only have to shim under the legs. Making a concrete subfloor seems like a whole lot of unnecessary work to me, this is like stacking children's blocks.

[Reefwithareefer]

This is getting way too complicated. Cut several lengths of 1 x 4 slightly wider than your metal stands. The first stand will only need I board and it will be shared by the second stand. On the last side of the second stand place 2 of these boards under the legs of stand two and three under the last set of legs for tank 3. This will raise each successive stand 3/4" of an inch in relation to the last, giving an over all lift to the last one of 2.25" IF that is not what you need, adjust the thickness of the boards. For instance using 5/8" plywood for the strips, you will get an overall lift of 1 7/8". If you have metal stands, you only have to shim under the legs. Making a concrete subfloor seems like a whole lot of unnecessary work to me, this is like stacking children's blocks.

Actually your way is more complicated. Cutting, shimming, trying to level up each corner properly is way more time consuming. 1x4 on its side will cause the legs to make depressions into the wood , which may twist the frame and tank over time. Being as he has sump pumps and French drains in the basement, there is the likelihood that water gets into the basement, which will just cause wood to rot/mold etc.. I would also assume that each stand has six legs which makes even more work and more difficult work in finding materials to fit under it properly so no sagging or twisting occurs.

He could just make up two narrow forms 3" wide x 12 ft long and pour levelling compound into those, thereby creating concrete rails instead of a pad. Saves on compound materials, which is the expensive portion.

[davocean]

^^ I was actually thinking the same thing, doing a crete pad takes no time at all, and I'm shimless.

[Gorgok]

Its a concrete floor and steel stand(s), yes? Put some leveler feet at the posts and level it with those... Not complicated at all. 2" of lift is not a big deal.

Something like these: http://www.grainger.com/product/S-W-Polymount-4TTJ7?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP

[Windy2]

Actually your way is more complicated. Cutting, shimming, trying to level up each corner properly is way more time consuming. 1x4 on its side will cause the legs to make depressions into the wood , which may twist the frame and tank over time. Being as he has sump pumps and French drains in the basement, there is the likelihood that water gets into the basement, which will just cause wood to rot/mold etc.. I would also assume that each stand has six legs which makes even more work and more difficult work in finding materials to fit under it properly so no sagging or twisting occurs.

He could just make up two narrow forms 3" wide x 12 ft long and pour levelling compound into those, thereby creating concrete rails instead of a pad. Saves on compound materials, which is the expensive portion.

I guess if you want to worry, nothing will be good enough.

[Shawn O]

Its a concrete floor and steel stand(s), yes? Put some leveler feet at the posts and level it with those... Not complicated at all. 2" of lift is not a big deal.

Something like these: http://www.grainger.com/product/S-W-Polymount-4TTJ7?functionCode=P2IDP2PCP

This was like a light bulb moment in this thread. A good cut-to-the-chase, quick, cheap fix. :D Good thinking.

[laga77]

I am a carpenter who worked in the concrete trade for over thirty years. If you want to do the job in the most expensive and labor intensive way, be sure to do the job with bags of cementitious material in a basement.

[Windy2]

I am a carpenter who worked in the concrete trade for over thirty years. If you want to do the job in the most expensive and labor intensive way, be sure to do the job with bags of cementitious material in a basement.
Finally a little reason.

[davocean]

This was like a light bulb moment in this thread. A good cut-to-the-chase, quick, cheap fix. :D Good thinking.

Unless one or more fails, then you are totally hosed.

[Gorgok]

A proper leveler won't fail any sooner than the stand itself or the tank... There is a reason industrial machines are sat on them for leveling purposes too.

Getting a screw to fail in compression would be interesting to see though, i wonder how many times over the rating you have to go to do that.

[Angry Andy]

I am a carpenter who worked in the concrete trade for over thirty years. If you want to do the job in the most expensive and labor intensive way, be sure to do the job with bags of cementitious material in a basement.

+1....great thinking.

But some dont care about stuff being labor intensive.

I do though and agree with you!!!!

[Windy2]

With a display tank in the front room, its a matter of taste. In the basement with old angle iron stands, its overkill, in my opinion.