Do you make the hobby more complicated then it is?

[pledosophy]

I have been on here a long time, and seen some people do some wacky things. I have done some completely wacky things.

After 15 years in the hobby now, after making changes to my own system I am starting to realize how much harder we make this hobby then it has to be.

There are people looking for to easy answers, that we all know don't work. There are people making things incredibly complicated, which usually doesn't work. Then there are long term hobbyists who tell people I did such and such, and instead of new reefers embracing it, they just make it more and more complicated.

I often wonder if making this hobby so much work is the hobby for some people?

[nmotz]

I often wonder if making this hobby so much work is the hobby for some people?

That's an interesting thought. Kinda like how some people thrive on drama and can't seem to understand why they always have problems? Something about this hobby always makes people want to overdo it. I'm the same way. I'll get something new and then immediately think "this is cool, but what would be really cool is if I could....." Then I start planning for the next big thing, whatever craziness it is.

But I think the same is true for general husbandry also. There are a lot of quirky habits that probably are not necessary, or are only necessary for specific setups that get thrown around as if they are law. It makes it difficult to know what is really important and what isn't. A lot of that frustration is plain to see when the noobs come on the forum and get blitzed with all kinds of information that they have no idea how to process.

The longer I'm in the hobby, the more I want to keep it simple. I'm just not smart enough or rich enough, nor do I have enough time to make things complicated.

[pledosophy]

The longer I'm in the hobby, the more I want to keep it simple.

Same here. I think with more experience the more you realize how so much is not needed.

[karimwassef]

Do less with less

Nature's own philosophy on economy.

[Sk8r]

I find it goes in waves---the current philosophy seems to be button-down-tight, glue everything possible to glue (this is generally a bad thing), use only artificial no-critters rock , qt everything wet, and have everything on controller.

I come of the I-can-cope-with-aiptasia school of rock, don't glue, don't use a controller, do, however, believe in qt: the pests seem to be getting more common.

[billdogg]

Anybody besides me (and PaulB) remember when putting a *gasp* power head on your UG filter tube was the absolute pinnacle of marine aquaria?

There have been way too many "innovations" to count since then. Some of them good, some not so much. I have always been firmly on the side of the K.I.S.S. principle. The more complicated anything is, the more likely there is to be a problem.

For me, that means my successful 120g reef uses live rock and a skimmer for filtration. No controller (although I do dose Alk and Ca using BRS pumps on digital lamp timers), no filter socks, simple LED lighting (AI Sol's on a very basic program) and monthly water changes.

[Corona007]

I have had a lot of hobbies, and it's the same thing. Some people just like making things things harder than what they really are. Lol

this is one of those hobbies that you can actually use the KISS and LIA method.
Keep it simple stupid and leave it alone!!! And have great results. :)

[Westfield]

That's an interesting thought. Kinda like how some people thrive on drama and can't seem to understand why they always have problems? Something about this hobby always makes people want to overdo it. I'm the same way. I'll get something new and then immediately think "this is cool, but what would be really cool is if I could....." Then I start planning for the next big thing, whatever craziness it is.

But I think the same is true for general husbandry also. There are a lot of quirky habits that probably are not necessary, or are only necessary for specific setups that get thrown around as if they are law. It makes it difficult to know what is really important and what isn't. A lot of that frustration is plain to see when the noobs come on the forum and get blitzed with all kinds of information that they have no idea how to process.

The longer I'm in the hobby, the more I want to keep it simple. I'm just not smart enough or rich enough, nor do I have enough time to make things complicated.


++I just started 3 months ago Coral ONLY. Bought a 10 gallon tank (should have bought a 20). Have 5 SPS and a Kenya tree, 3 crabs and 4-5 snails. I probably have to much rock but I keep the water flowing. I chg 1 gallon ever week, feed my crabs etc almost once a week before changing. Test with a strip and a tube kits weekly and have 5 hours of blue light. I walk by a number of times and stop and look. One of my SPS has grown 30% in 2 months. The answer is LIFE BALANCE. Oh I am 68 and gave a real buzy FULL life. John

[jason2459]

I like a blend of "old school" and new. Just have to research those that have had tanks for decades and not just years and those that have successfully achieved tanks of the month. See what's similar and what you can afford time wise and budget wise.

[borderreef]

I am guilty as charged. When I got the big tank, I needed all of the gadgets that would make things easier. Automation to keep things healthy with a minimum of work. Well, my fish are healthy and happy. So are my corals, my aptasia and my bubble algae. The new tank is going back to the old school ways. Live and learn.

[salty joe]

.

The longer I'm in the hobby, the more I want to keep it simple. I'm just not smart enough or rich enough, nor do I have enough time to make things complicated.

I was thinking about that the other day. I realized that I'm not smart enough or rich enough to have a simple system. At least not one with wave and tide simulation. I tried so hard to keep things simple but I could not.

[gone fishin]

Pretty basic setup here. Got a Tunze ATO, a Ranco controller for the heaters, pair of dosing pumps on light timers, skimmer and live rock and a Gyre. I do a 15% WC every 2 weeks.

[Flippers4pups]

When I started out in the early nineties it was very basic compared to now and I had great success with LPS and softies. The "Berlin " method was the way to go. I still follow these simple methods today with good husbandry. "Kiss" works and is less expensive!

[bmrigs]

Like I said before, we can make this hobby as easy or complex as we want to.

[joshky]

Do people make certain aspects harder than it could be? Yes. Does that mean they are doing it wrong? Not necessarily.

There are multiple ways to successfully run a reef, I think we all have to figure out what works for us individually.

[karimwassef]

It also depends on individual needs:

Poor college students can't always afford the simplicity that comes with better gear.
People who travel a lot need automation or more self-sustaining controls.
Those with poor access to reliable power may need generators.

Etc...

[hkgar]

I keep hearing the previous posters "saying I keep it simple I don't have a controller", then they add they have dosing pumps on light timers and heater and led controllers. I have an Apex and think that one controller is simpler than having 3 or 4 or more each of which only controls one thing.

[Bootlegger]

Yes. But as others have said, there are many ways to run a reef tank. Now I'll be bold...there are a lot more unproved or anecdotal methods commonly used than 15 years ago. Not that they're weren't available, just not main stream. Here's a short list of somewhat complicated things that reefers do that may or may not work as advertised or even be necessary. Note: they're all based on relatively sound theory and certainly have their fans.

Bio pellets
Deep sand beds
Algae scrubbers
Macro Algae Refugiums (maybe similar to a scrubber...more or less?)
Sulfur De-nitrifiers
Anaerobic De-Nitrifiers

What am I missing? I know there's a lot more.

[hkgar]

Yes. But as others have said, there are many ways to run a reef tank. Now I'll be bold...there are a lot more unproved or anecdotal methods commonly used than 15 years ago. Not that they're weren't available, just not main stream. Here's a short list of somewhat complicated things that reefers do that may or may not work as advertised or even be necessary. Note: they're all based on relatively sound theory and certainly have their fans.

Bio pellets
Deep sand beds
Algae scrubbers
Macro Algae Refugiums (maybe similar to a scrubber...more or less?)
Sulfur De-nitrifiers
Anaerobic De-Nitrifiers

What am I missing? I know there's a lot more.

Bio pellets Tried but didn't work for me
Deep sand beds Had on a 90 and tank crashed now a shallow on my 180
Algae scrubbers Currently using, the "sceince" seems to make sense
Macro Algae Refugiums (maybe similar to a scrubber...more or less?) Had one and still got a massive algae outbreak, Killed off with Algae fix trying to combat the algae
Sulfur De-nitrifiers Haven't tried

Anaerobic De-Nitrifiers Haven't tried

[Tspors58]

KISS Here
The mystery can be finding the proper balance water/natural filtration (rock). If the balance is there you do not need all the concoctions. You can even go a couple years without test kits!!!!!!!
Interesting post my friend, I was just saying to wife this morning about the complexity I read here. Like someone wanting to add ammonia to the tank? Really let it cycle might even take 2 months.

[CHSUB]

Anybody besides me (and PaulB) remember when putting a *gasp* power head on your UG filter tube was the absolute pinnacle of marine aquaria?

There have been way too many "innovations" to count since then. Some of them good, some not so much. I have always been firmly on the side of the K.I.S.S. principle. The more complicated anything is, the more likely there is to be a problem.

For me, that means my successful 120g reef uses live rock and a skimmer for filtration. No controller (although I do dose Alk and Ca using BRS pumps on digital lamp timers), no filter socks, simple LED lighting (AI Sol's on a very basic program) and monthly water changes.

i remember putting a powerhead(Hagen iirc) on my UG filter tube and i have a very complicated system, imo. so just because one has been doing this a long time doesn't mean one's tank can not benefit from the "new" stuff.

[pisanoal]

I am a relatively new reefer at about 18 months. I have an sps dominant tank, and have finally learned this lesson. While I have a controller for ease and piece of mind, I kept adding filtration and this and that to solve a "problem" when it occurred to me adding more things isn't usually the answer. I have since gone pretty simple removing things like UV, gfo reactor, filter sock, etc.

[ridetheducati]

Similar to other hobbies, the subjectivity is what keeps reef forums and the hobby going. I believe the hobbyist personality plays a large part in what methodology is adopted and implemented.

[Devaji108]

Similar to other hobbies, the subjectivity is what keeps reef forums and the hobby going. I believe the hobbyist personality plays a large part in what methodology is adopted and implemented.

yes...I was just gonna say something aloge these lines.
finding the "right" methodology to achieve there goals for each reefer is in my option the key.
I like KISS tanks and try to go that way but I am not afraid to use what works for me and my tank. ( like ATO and a controller )

in the end the tank just be an enjoyable hobby. if it turn in to work then that when problems come IMHO

[seamonster124]

I think many people learn a skill/hobby, then they get bored and want to push it further.
There are also people who want to think they are involved in a very complex hobby.
There are also those who believe they need to keep buying to accomplish something, and retailers are lined up to take advantage.

[Flippers4pups]

There is nothing wrong with having all the gadgets and controllers and such. The real problem that many face is the hands off approach to the hobby. For some, reliance in the gadget that doesn't make it easier or fix a problem, makes them question what's wrong with the gadget. When we allow the gadgets to take us away the basics of the hobby, then frustration and loss of interest can set in.

This hobby isn't a hands off hobby. And it isn't cheap, even if it's just the basics.

[ReefCowboy]

I sometimes read threads here and can't believe how difficult people make this hobby to be. I own a 57 gal sps tank and can't remember when was the last time I lost a coral. I keep my system simple with the regular skimmer, gfo, carbon and weekly wc's and never have problems.
Somehow people find ways to crash their systems and get gadgets that IMO do more harm than good in the long run....
I also find that people prefer to get controllers and high tech stuff while neglecting good water source from a simple RODI system to begin with.

[ncaldwell]

My radion pro is the most complicated thing on my tank, other then that I have a hob filter a mp10 and water changes

[PhaneSoul]

I siphon the sand during wc's and have only a glorified canister filter. its just a sump with a filter sock and a return. doesn't get any simpler then that unless I took the filter sock out of the equation. then there would be no real need for a sump then im just left with a display tank and 10% waterchanges each week.

[karimwassef]

Also depends on what you're trying to keep alive.

I have a quarantine tank with a live rock, some chaeto and some peppermints. Strip light, a heater and a hang on filter are the only pieces of equipment on it.

[pledosophy]

Watching people in this thread justify or define their own means of accepted complexity is very interesting.

Now I am all for automation. Sometimes automation makes it easier, sometimes it makes it harder. I spend about two minutes a day on my very successful mixed reef. Every 6 months or so I refill the C02 tank, the CA reactor, and trim the corals. Takes a couple hours.

So all and all I spend about 16-20 hours a year working on my tank. If you spend more time, or spend any money (I haven't spent a dime not generated by frag sales in at least 5 years) I would say you are over complicating. :D

[kmbyrnes]

I think a lot of it is newbie confusion.
Getting started in this hobby requires the acquisition and absorption of a lot of knowledge on a new topic with little frame of reference.
You read about this to fix a problem and that to prevent a problem and think to yourself "Man, I gotta have that 3 valve supercharged networked ferflugle reactor or all my corals will die a horrible death!" when all you have is 10 zoa polyps and trumpet coral in a 3 month old tank.
All the gadgets in the world will not serve you better than following the simple steps outlined in many posts and stickies.
Solid water chemistry, good lighting, and proper flow are enough to be successful on almost any scale.
As you gain more knowledge, some tools make life easier, but nothing will replace patience and research.

[hart24601]

There are many ways to run and have a great tank. The only consistent thing seems to be that someone will not like how you do it.

[reefgeezer]

Remember KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stupid - not Keep it Stupidly Simple.

Just because a task is performed manually doesn't mean it is more "KISS". My ATO is simple: a 35 gallon Brute; a BRS dosing pump; and a timer. The task of maintaining water level and salinity would be much harder without it. While I use Kalk in my ATO and consider it "KISS", the task might be simpler for heavily loaded SPS systems if a calcium reactor or 2-part dosing system were employed. I'd consider that more "KISS" than daily manual additions less "KISS".

[reefwiser]

The Hobby attracts a certain group of hobbyist that like to tinker with equipment. It also attracts ones that love chemistry. It attracts hobbyist to love biology and nature. An finally ones that just think it is pretty. Many hobbyists are a mix of interest's. One can make the hobby as simple or as complicated as one wishes. There are many ways to run a successful tank and one must choose one that fits their abilities and budget.

[hkgar]

Remember KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stupid - not Keep it Stupidly Simple.

Just because a task is performed manually doesn't mean it is more "KISS". My ATO is simple: a 35 gallon Brute; a BRS dosing pump; and a timer. The task of maintaining water level and salinity would be much harder without it. While I use Kalk in my ATO and consider it "KISS", the task might be simpler for heavily loaded SPS systems if a calcium reactor or 2-part dosing system were employed. I'd consider that more "KISS" than daily manual additions less "KISS".

You are right. Based on some I probably am over gimmicked with ATO, AWC, 2 part dosing, a controller to tack care of those mentioned functions and sense I have it I have it shut off the return for feeding time, and that then shuts off the skimmer so it maintains the right water level, oh, and it monitors and maintains the temperature. To me that is keeping things simple, Yes I do have to monitor things to make sure all things are doing their job. It is kind of like hiring people to make your job easier.

Darn, today I just bought a booster pump to improve the efficiency of my RO/DI system and it has a self contained auto shut off.

a

[MellowReefer]

I know most people will tell me my life would be a whole lot easier if I set up automatic dosing instead of manually dosing my alk, and I could keep more sensitive corals. But reading stories of tank crashes from their doser malfunctioning makes me so nervous. I realize it probably doesn't happen that often but I just can't talk myself into doing it.

[hkgar]

Much depends on you risk tolerance as to what you feel you can do. But sometimes you just can't predict what might happen.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2513595

[reefgeezer]

I suppose it really depends of the specimens you are keeping. For example, daily calcium & alk dosing might work in some systems, but produce unacceptable alk swings in others. I'd suggest it is still more KISS to put KAlk in the ATO or learn how to use a dosing pump & digital timer (or a controller).

[Nano sapiens]

I do remember (and used) the revolutionary 'powerhead on top of the UV filter outlet' :)

IMO, the proliferation of SPS (read as Acropora, mostly) dominated tanks has driven a lot of the complexity that we see today due to the more demanding needs of these corals. Unfortunately, I see much of this complexity now liberally applied to many other types of reef tanks, when a simple system would typically be all that is required for good results.

[reefgeezer]

i do remember (and used) the revolutionary 'powerhead on top of the uv filter outlet' :)

imo, the proliferation of sps (read as acropora, mostly) dominated tanks has driven a lot of the complexity that we see today due to the more demanding needs of these corals. Unfortunately, i see much of this complexity now liberally applied to many other types of reef tanks, when a simple system would typically be all that is required for good results.

+1

[PIPSTER]

When I first looked into this hobby, I was intimidated by how much the cost was going to be for all this equipment everyone was saying they just had to have to succeed... :sad2:

GFO reactor
Calcium reactor
mag doser
potassium doser
*gasp*
bio pellet reactor
super expensive skimmer
fully programmable MH, T5, LED combo $$$
Chemipure
Carbon reactor
ATS
electrically actuated ATO
dosers for trace elements such as iodine, iron, manganese, cobalt, etc...
Purigen
Denitrator
UV sterilizer
controlled powerheads with on\off wavemaking AND variable speed
*gasp*
stray voltage grounding unit
sump with baffles out the wazoo
heater with controller connector
ozonator
CO2 doser
diatom filter
3X the plumbing to the sump to prevent accidental overflow
on and on...

Then I thought about the ocean, and how life does just fine in it, and what nature really does to sustain it. I found many sumpless, filterless, skimmerless threads with awesome tanks that have been thriving for years.

I also came across many threads with people who bought all these bells and whistles, who lost thousands of dollars worth of livestock when their doser went on the fritz and super-saturated their DT with toxic levels of whatever, or their sump pump failed, and flooded their living room to the cost and labor of thousands. They seem to have the most problems keeping things going.

I decided to just implement things that made less work, and keep things as natural as possible, so I ended up with:

2 channel LED light with old-fashioned cheap mechanical timers.
HOB skimmer stuffed with chaeto.
Gravity ATO with float valve in DT.
No sump
1 power head
Cheap heater

I have a UV sterilizer due to an extended bacteria bloom that endlessly clouded my tank, which has worked well to clear it back up.

I have deep fine sand bed and now-live rock, and have zero nitrates, and undetectable phosphates.

I feed my fish, scrub my glass daily, change water weekly, and I'm happy as a lark :dance:

[pinnatus]

The Hobby attracts a certain group of hobbyist that like to tinker with equipment. It also attracts ones that love chemistry. It attracts hobbyist to love biology and nature. An finally ones that just think it is pretty. Many hobbyists are a mix of interest's. One can make the hobby as simple or as complicated as one wishes. There are many ways to run a successful tank and one must choose one that fits their abilities and budget.

This^^^^^

Some folks aren't happy if they don't have the latest tech gadget. Others aren't happy if they aren't tinkering. Others want the high-end named corals or the new rare designer clown. Others like to sit back and enjoy the view.

I am lazy. I have been doing this hobby for 41 years, and I remember a powerhead on my undergravel tubes as well. I like to sit back and watch my tank with minimal work or effort or cost. But that is me. My tank is not nearly as dazzling as others here, but I like it.

So whichever facet of the hobby turns you on, I say go for it and enjoy it. That is what hobbies are for!

[jason2459]

I remember adding a powerhead to my dolomite undergravel tubes too except in reverse flow.... I just cleaned out the sponge filter on them the other day. :bum:

[reefgeezer]

I remember adding a powerhead to my dolomite undergravel tubes too except in reverse flow.... I just cleaned out the sponge filter on them the other day. :bum:

Did that! About 1995 on a heavily stocked 100 gallon fish only.

[mmittlesteadt]

Everyone has their "specialty" or what trips their trigger. Mine is a pretty low maintenance purposely built weed garden (Xenia, GSP, Kenya Tree, Zoas, Mushrooms) with a large sump and refugium with lots of chaeto in it.

Perhaps a bit complicated to setup, but couldn't be any easier to maintain. No realy high tech stuff for it either. Gravity fed ATO with a float valve, Skimmer, Kessil A160WE on a simple timer. Pretty basic stuff for a basic low key reef tank.

[wpeterson]

We were lucky to do everything the hard way and make our mistakes early with a 29g FOWLR that turned into a mixed reef over a year. As a new hobbyist, I had major sticker shock and skepticism about equipment. I'm glad that I began doing everything in the hobby manually but then bought better gear and automation to address specific problems I had.

We started using treated tap water and just a HOB filter, with manual freshwater top up and struggle to maintain consistent salinity until we added an ATO. After that, we struggled with nutrient export even with frequent water changes and eventually added a HOB skimmer and media reactor. Lights were upgraded. Lamp timers were added.

After a year and a half of that, we started over with a bigger tank after a move and I wanted to automate the things that hassled us in our nanos. We added an Apex controller and I could see realtime information about the tank. After manually dosing every few days, I bought a cheap doser and automated our two part dosing. Every time something breaks, I try to automate a monitor or a fix. Our return pump power supply failed, so I've just finished wiring up a float switch with an alarm to catch a return pump failure.

We do have a fairly complex setup now, but we've gotten here through concrete lessons learned and mistakes made - layering on new gear and technology as we go.

Now, we're lucky to have a tank that runs itself other than filling up ATO and dosing reservoirs. I'm also glad to have full remote monitoring and alarms for problems.