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karimwassef
07/18/2015, 10:28 AM
I have a reef tank with SPS, a few LPS and some riccordea softies along with the usual cast and crew of starfish, shrimp, crabs, and other reef fish.

I have an open flow system with no mechanical filtration and a thick chaeto scrubber that pumps a lot of pods and other biofauna into the tank. My mandarin is very fat.

I feed phyto twice a week and I have regular broods of baby shrimp, starfish, crabs, etc...

My clownfish pair have been in for 6 months and 3 of those were in a large RBTA. I've never seen fish fry or eggs from them.

Last night, at 3am, I was walking past and the UV moonlight was on. I saw some flickers. Under a lamp, I saw a swarm of babies. I expected the usual shrimp brood, but when I looked closer, they were fish. I tried to make a video but I'm terrible at this.

So... Unplanned parenthood is upon me. I have no facilities for raising babies & I'm not 100% sure they're even the clownfishs'

I'm leaving on vacation so I poured a liberal overdose of phyto as I got into the taxi...

Is there any chance any of them will survive in a reef? Will the parents channel them back into the safety under the anemone??

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 10:29 AM
http://youtu.be/RhEhdQV_Ob4

That's the video on my YouTube channel. You can see more of my tank there too.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 10:31 AM
Since there's little I can do outside of controlling my Apex remotely, I think this is mostly academic in terms of survivability in a reef tank and whether there's anything I should think about to get ready for when I'm back in two weeks.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 10:32 AM
Here's the full tank view 380g DT
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/11C73C95-F047-4A15-BD8F-42F0DBD523B0_zpszkjbooiv.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/11C73C95-F047-4A15-BD8F-42F0DBD523B0_zpszkjbooiv.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 11C73C95-F047-4A15-BD8F-42F0DBD523B0_zpszkjbooiv.jpg"/></a>

The RBTA is on the far right.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 10:37 AM
Here's the happy couple
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/D33F8EAB-AC0C-48F2-A3BB-C5395E221055_zps3csm2fe4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/D33F8EAB-AC0C-48F2-A3BB-C5395E221055_zps3csm2fe4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo D33F8EAB-AC0C-48F2-A3BB-C5395E221055_zps3csm2fe4.jpg"/></a>

Bongo Shrimp
07/18/2015, 02:45 PM
They are probably clown fry and no they will definitely not survive in the main tank. To raise them you would need a non-filtered tank with live rotifers and phytoplankton.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 04:39 PM
My reef has no filtration. Only a protein skimmer.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 04:40 PM
I regularly feed phyto and I have shrimp babies born on a weekly basis.

Bongo Shrimp
07/18/2015, 04:51 PM
My reef has no filtration. Only a protein skimmer.

I regularly feed phyto and I have shrimp babies born on a weekly basis.

A skimmer counts as filtration and even all the rock and other in habitants including the shrimp and clown parents will eat or destroy the fry (not to mention the pumps!). Having fry produced and raising the fry through the larval phase to adulthood are very different things. Also the amount of photo being fed to the tank is not enough to sustain a rotifer population which would be depleted by the other inhabitants, skimming, and rock.

Raising fish fry requires an empty tank with a heater and air line only in order to maintain proper densities of food and phyto for the Rotifera to eat and to allow the fry to see the food.

Raising the shrimp larvae would be even more complex and requires a kreisel tank die to the strictly pelagic nature of the shrimp larvae and other types of foods.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 06:00 PM
Outside the pumps, the dangers in my tank are the same as those in nature. Skimming being comparable to large surf or crashing waves.

But I get it... Out of thousands, only one may survive in the wild too.

Joke
07/18/2015, 06:01 PM
If u want to breed them you really have to have a breeding setup bongo shrimp is right the chance of them surviving in a tank like that is very slim.

Bongo Shrimp
07/18/2015, 06:11 PM
Outside the pumps, the dangers in my tank are the same as those in nature. Skimming being comparable to large surf or crashing waves.

But I get it... Out of thousands, only one may survive in the wild too.

Well no, because your tank contains rock and other reef fish and is in essence, a reef. The larvae of both shrimp and clownfish are pelagic and would be found in the open water, away from structures and shallows (such as reefs). Being in an empty tank with only a heater and some bubbles helps simulate the open water environment. Clownfish larvae are able to consciously control their direction of swimming and can actively hunt prey, however shrimp larvae require a kreisel because they do not control this are at the mercy of the currents.

karimwassef
07/18/2015, 07:54 PM
Ahhh. Thank you. That's what I was missing.

So. Another peculiarity of my system is a variable flow actuated surge with 100gal reservoir over the DT and two releases. It's unlit and has 4 basic modes of operation with the two surge outlets.

1. Calm release - this was originally an artifice of my surge outlets being imperfect seals causing the reservoir to slowly leak through the two outlets until it triggers a refill from the surge pump. So, the reservoir's top 20gals of water stay calm and don't exit the reservoir. The bottom 80gal leak slowly and then fresh tank water is pumped in to make them up. The leak takes about 45mins. The refill takes about 5mins.

2. Left fast surge. This is a 20gal full open valve that releases 20gals in about 10sec into the DT through the left outlet.

3. Right fast surge. This is another 20g full open release through the right outlet.

4. Storm. This is both actuators releasing s combined 40g into the DT.

Calm release is every night and all of Saturday. It's also interspersed between other modes during the day.

So why do I think it matters here?

Every night, I see significant motion of very small particles in my DT when I shine a light. Some grow to be 5mm long fully formed shrimp babies. None grow larger, but I wonder if my reservoir night conditions are not like the open oceans you describe.

There are no pumps for the top 20g of the surge water. The bottom 80g flow out very slowly. Fresh oxygenated tank water refill the reservoir every 45mins. There is no light.

I also turn off my skimmer for 6hours at night.

In terms of food density, I don't know if it's similar. I do feed phyto, but no rotifers. I expect the fish would eat the shrimp, but it's not so thick that it tints the water (unless I just fed).

kizanne
07/19/2015, 07:03 AM
You probably have some copepods or something they can eat. They will probably become food for some corals, other fish. You might have a few survive but don't count on it. It seems like a great surprise though to know your clowns are spawning. They do it again for you when you come back from vacation.

BABIES :bounce3:

karimwassef
07/19/2015, 07:33 AM
It was a surprise! I never saw eggs and I was looking... And they looked like they would fight occasionally.

shifty51008
07/19/2015, 11:07 AM
Pods will be to big for them to eat after they are born. Most likely they will become the circle of life.

On the bright side if no major changes happen to the tank the will keep spawning on a regular basis so if you wanna try to raise them.

karimwassef
07/19/2015, 05:15 PM
Sure. But the pods are breeding too... So there is a plankton soup.

Boom
07/19/2015, 06:19 PM
Read "Clownfishes" by Joyce D. Wilkerson or on RC fish breeding forum

kizanne
07/22/2015, 08:15 AM
Pods will be to big for them to eat after they are born. Most likely they will become the circle of life.

On the bright side if no major changes happen to the tank the will keep spawning on a regular basis so if you wanna try to raise them.

Many copepod larva are smaller than rotifers (what many breeders use for clownfish larva) so they aren't too large and they are more nutritious. But you right they probably will just feed something else in the tank.

Bongo Shrimp
07/22/2015, 03:21 PM
Sure. But the pods are breeding too... So there is a plankton soup.

There may be copepod nauplii in the tank but it will never reach the density needed for any larvae to survive. Plus they wouldn't be able to locate the nauplii anyways because there is no contrast. If you want to try to raise them I would suggest reading the book recommended above. You can do it in a bare 10g.

karimwassef
07/22/2015, 04:03 PM
I'm out for two weeks and the tank is on automatic for now. I'll report on what I find when I get back.

Bmplank86
07/26/2015, 04:02 PM
Congrats dad