Confused after adding sps.

[el_batty]

Hi, this is my first post and i would like to describe my tank first.

Tank: LBH (48"x18"x22")
Sump : LBH (30"x12"x15")

Light: CREE DIY LED (royal blue, neutral white and some green/cyan/red)
ATS - Yes
Skimmer - No
Chiller - Yes
Substrate : aragonite sand + coral dust + seachem pearl beach sand.
LR : Approx 50Kgs+
Fish :
i) diadem dottyback
ii) cinammon clownfish
iii) yellow tang
iv) azure damsel
v) yellow tail damsel (short body)

Corals & Inverts:
i) Actinodiscus sp. (blue and green)
ii) Rhodactis sp.
iii) Galaxea spp. (tooth coral)
iv) Sinularia flexibilis (Spaghetti finger leather coral)
v) Sinularia spp. (Thick finger leather coral)
vi) Blue tipped acropora
vii) plate acropora
viii) Condylactis sp. (cup anemone)
ix) lots of feather dusters
x) Turbinaria peltata (cup coral)
xi) some clove polyps and a small favia frag.
xii) brown polyps, red polyps and green polyps (zoantids)

Dosing: Red Sea Reef Foundation ABC+
and part B (NaHCO3).

Now, my query....
i added the acroporas recently and till before i used to maintain a steady Ca of 420 and dkh of 7.6 dkh...but somehow after introducing them i noticed that the dkh was dropping while the Ca remained constant...so i upped the dkh to 9 over 4 hours and needless to say i witnessed Ca precipitation on the glass which is clear by now.

I rechecked my parameters and saw the dkh is now 9.0 steady since the last 3 days and the Ca is now 520.
This is a little upsetting as i noticed that the soft corals aren't opening up properly.

My NO3 is 0 thanks to seachem purigen and PO4 is 0 thanks to ATS.

I want to know what should be the ideal range of Ca and alkalinity for a mixed reef consisting of both soft corals as well as hard corals. My tank is predominantly a soft coral based tank.

Here are some pics for reference..sorry for poor pic quality though!

thanks in advance!!

[KingTriton1]

There is more calcium in the water than there is alkalinity. This is why many people decide to only check Alk, while calcium is sometimes checked in long stretches. With SPS stability is key. They are sensitive to Alk fluctuations. Just find out how much alk is being removed daily and try to match it daily. Remember that Calcium and Alk are used up in equal proportions so whenever you see your Alk drop you will need to dose Alk AND calcium regardless if your calcium levels are within the range that you want them. It takes a lot more supplementation to raise your calcium levels than it does to raise your Alk levels.

[el_batty]

Thanks for the prompt reply, but i can't dose Ca separately as i am dosing Reef Foundation ABC+ from RED SEA...its said to be all in proportion...but while i was dosing this only...i noticed the reduction of alk where Ca was 420 and alk was 7.2 barely (salifert test kits)..so i extra dosed nahco3 to push it up to 9.0 and now i see that Ca is off the charts too...should i just stop dosing for a week and let the parameters reset themselves or should i dose alk a little more to balance the increase of alk?

ideally what should be the target range of parameters?

My tank is more inclined towards soft corals as you can see.

Cheers!

[sctip]

KingTriton1, thank you I was having the same issue with my calcium and Alk. Thanks for the information it will help me greatly.

[KingTriton1]

Whats throwing me off is why your calcium has spiked to such a high level. If you dosed your alk and Ca in equal proportions then your calcium level should only be 450ppm not 520ppm. I would check your levels from another Ca test kit. Whats you Mg level? Maybe others can chime in with some additional experience other than myself. I like to keep my parameter at Ca 420ppm, Alk 8.5 dkh, Mg 1280-1300

[el_batty]

mg is 1320.
while my tank was soft coral dominated, my Ca uptake was not that much and i maintained the levels at Ca 420 and Alk 9.

Am just wondering that would it be okay if i maintained the same levels or do i need to up the levels a notch...a LFS guy mentioned to me that since i dont have any NO3 and PO4 in my tank, i should aim to keep the alk higher around 11-11.5....can you/anyone please justify his theory...i read a lot online and i never came across anything of this sort.

Thanks in advance!

[el_batty]

today morning i checked my Ca and Alk...and i found them to be :
460 and 7.3 respectively...i needed to up the alk to 8.3 (atleast) so i added part B of 2 part dosing..once i get a stable ratio of 440 and 8.5ish...i will start dosing properly with red sea ABC+ which has all the nutrients in a balanced way...

am surprised as how fast did the parameters drop within 2 days.
will check the parameters again in the evening and then dose ABC+ if needed.
From my observation, Alk is dropping faster than Ca....i am unable to get why!

[el_batty]

today morning i checked my Ca and Alk...and i found them to be :
460 and 7.3 respectively...i needed to up the alk to 8.3 so i added part B of 2 part dosing..once i get a stable ratio of 440 and 9...i will start dosing properly with red sea ABC+ which has all the nutrients in a balanced way...

am surprised as how fast did the parameters drop within 2 days.
will check the parameters again in the evening and then dose ABC+ if needed.
From my observation, Alk is dropping faster than Ca....i am unable to get why!

[Art13]

mg is 1320.
while my tank was soft coral dominated, my Ca uptake was not that much and i maintained the levels at Ca 420 and Alk 9.

Am just wondering that would it be okay if i maintained the same levels or do i need to up the levels a notch...a LFS guy mentioned to me that since i dont have any NO3 and PO4 in my tank, i should aim to keep the alk higher around 11-11.5....can you/anyone please justify his theory...i read a lot online and i never came across anything of this sort.

Thanks in advance!

That advise i would think would be the opposite of what you want to do. When you have a low nutrient system, usually you aim for 7-8.5dkh, if you go higher it tends to burn the tips of sps.

[KingTriton1]

Alk will always drop much faster than Ca, as there is more Ca in the water than Alk. I would raise the Alk to where you want it then start dosing in equal parts. I would check the Alk daily. Since Alk and Ca are used up equally, if your Alk is where you want it then you can generally assume that the Ca is as well.

[KingTriton1]

From my observation, Alk is dropping faster than Ca....i am unable to get why!

Here is a good read:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/

"One of the interesting features of seawater is that it contains a lot more calcium than alkalinity. By this I mean that if all of the calcium in seawater (420 ppm; 10.5 meq/L) were to be precipitated as calcium carbonate, it would consume 21 meq/L of alkalinity (nearly 10 times as much as is present in natural seawater). In a less drastic scenario, let's say that calcium carbonate is formed from aquarium water starting with an alkalinity of 3 meq/L that it is allowed to drop to 2 meq/L (a 33% drop). How much has the calcium declined? It is a surprise to many people to learn that the calcium would drop by only 20 ppm (5%). Consequently, many aquarists observe that their calcium levels are relatively stable (within their ability to reproducibly test it), but alkalinity can vary up and down substantially. This is exactly what would be expected, given that the aquarium already has such a large reservoir of calcium."

[tmz]

I want to know what should be the ideal range of Ca and alkalinity for a mixed reef consisting of both soft corals as well as hard corals. My tank is predominantly a soft coral based tank.

Ideal range is debatable and variable depending on the specifics of a given aquarium in terms of livestock ,CO2 levels, nutrient levels and a number of other variables. Recommended range is 7 to 11 dkh for alkalinity and 380 to
450ppm for calcium. FWIW, My mixed reef tanks do well with alk in the 8.5 to 9.5 range and calcium around 480 to 510ppm with a magnesium over 1400ppm. Some like lower levels ;some higher within accepted ranges

Stability is a key. Establishing a dosing routine based on consumption rates in your aquarium to keep levels as constant as you can is very helpful.
FYI,. alk is expressed with different measures which can be confusing. These are the equivalents : 50ppm=1 meq/l =2.8 dkh. A little math can translate one to the other.

[Hwobarg]

Your demand when up and thats why the alk dropped. Alk will always fluctuate faster. If you just increased your alk, sooner or later your calc will come down but will then drop low. After adding corals it takes frequent testing and corrections to balance out.

[el_batty]

hi, thanks for the valuable inputs...so yesterday my reading was Ca 460 and Alk 7.3 dkh and i just increased my Alk by doing NaHCO3 40ml and i noticed that my Ca uptake per day seems like 40ppm as today after 25 hours i checked my readings to be Ca 420ppm and Alk 7.6 dkh.

I guess i will try and maintain this ratio and will stop dosing Alk and instead the balanced mix.

Will do a reading once again tomorrow and update.

What are your feedbacks on Red Sea Reef Foundation ABC+?? I have been dosing this only.

Useful read btw KingTriton...that helps a lot.

I hope to keep the Alk 8-8.5 dkh and Ca around 440-460ppm

I hope that it will get a steady hike of both..i wanted to figure out how much Alk is consumed per day roughly. That's be helpful i guess.

Either way, am far from finding balance in my reef...i intend to add another montipora soon...but with the parameters fluctuating...am not sure if i should or not.

Thanks again for the help guys!

[tmz]

I guess i will try and maintain this ratio and will stop dosing Alk and instead the balanced mix.

Those are good targets,IMO. Now ,dosing caclium and alkalinity at alevel based on consumption levels at a 50ppm bicarbonate/carbonate to 20ppm calcium should work.


What are your feedbacks on Red Sea Reef Foundation ABC+?? I have been dosing this only.

Never used it . Based on the product description, it seems to be a calcium supplement with some additional elements . Most commercial calcium supplements contain these; so do salt mix and food btw.. Hard to evaluate it since the amounts for specific elements is unknown. I doubt it has much carbonate for example given the need for another alkalinity supplement.

Keeping alk steady has been important for me particularly for sps.


What are your feedbacks on Red Sea Reef Foundation ABC+?? I have been dosing this only.