Maxspect Razor 15K vs Kissel AP700

[Jyetman]

Why isn't there much feedback information on this newest Razor 15k model is this a bad indication? Would a Kissel AP700 for $950 be a better light over the $500 15k razor and why? I'm concern about spread and shading for 48" long tanks AP700 has only 2 LED pads vs 3 on the razor. Please help me decide.

[Kies1]

Can't comment on the kessil but I am 7 months on a 16 k 300 watt razor on my standard 90 and am growing everything with it. Very little shadowing and you would have better spread with the new 15k running with the 120 degree optics as well.

[sixpackgarage]

you should not pay $950 for the Kessil, that's MSRP. You should pay $850-900. I would most certainly go with Kessil. Had I not just bought two A360WE, I would have gotten the AP700

[Jyetman]

Bump

[EPRuss]

you should not pay $950 for the Kessil, that's MSRP. You should pay $850-900.

I received an email offer from a supplier (can't remember who) to pre-order the A700 for $899.

Also, Kessil is a hot brand right now, so if your not happy with it, it will probably be easier to sell and at a higher resell value.

That said, haven't heard anything negative about the razor, so I don't think you can go wrong with either.

That doesn't mean much though, from my experience most people don't have many negative things to say about a light they just dropped a grand on. Unless they have a major problem with it, like DOA or premature failure.

[EPRuss]

Why isn't there much feedback information on this newest Razor 15k model is this a bad indication? Would a Kissel AP700 for $950 be a better light over the $500 15k razor and why? I'm concern about spread and shading for 48" long tanks AP700 has only 2 LED pads vs 3 on the razor. Please help me decide.

Personally, If I was considering the A700 (based on price), I'd be comparing with the Maxspect Razor R420R 320watt 44" fixture with 6 pucks, for the same $$.

[EPRuss]

Another factor to consider is the razor includes the tank mounts and hanging kits. I'm pretty sure these will be an additional purchase with the kessil.

[soeminpaing]

Maxspect razor has some quality issue. LED display not working. Sometimes not working LED. I am not telling this from reviews. Almost all my friends use maxspect since it is very popular in singapore and Asia. Also there are china domestic maxspect which is cheaper than US version with 2 prong plugs but less quality control. In Asia, maxpect cost less with 160watts 3 pucks around 340 USD instead of 510.

[nikon187]

there calling for a 35% markup after exchange, duties and taxes for canadian supliers, over $1200 for the ap700

[Sounds Fishy]

In Canada the MS 320 watt 15000 K is $1100.00.How can I describe this to another companies LED unit,if I don't have their unit?I paid 1100 bucks,of course I am going to say it's better.

[Thomas_Li]

I like the control of AP700. Seems to have more features but less leds; different technology. However, i like the spead of 6 heads over 43" vs 2 over 20" covering the same 48". Waiting to see what Steves Led will come out with in a few weeks.

[Jyetman]

Decided I'm going to keep using my razor 10k for another year just to see how well the AP700 does first.

[SkullV]

All it takes to upgrade your 10K razor to the 15k is a few new pucks from Coralvue. They are priced at $60 each and your current power supply will power them just fine.

[Jyetman]

Are the Maxspect 15k razors any good?

[Sounds Fishy]

I think they are very good.Very well made.Got mine in the Springtime,this year.Using this unit on my 220XH aquarium and I have no complaints what so ever.I use it with an old Tek T5 ,6 build set up.The combination of the two works real well.

[Joke]

I have use razors in the past and all i have to say is that they get the job done well

[slief]

I run a Maxspect Razor 15K ovre my display refugium. It's a decent light. I've replaced the driver board once in the last couple years since installing it. Their quality is decent but I wouldn't say great. I run eight Kessil 360WE's over my 480G display and love those. I've seen the new Kessil AP700's over several tanks at MACNA and I have to say that they are by far the nicest light I have ever seen. They have incredible spread, are extremely crisp, the corals popped and they have that trademark Kessil shimmer. While both the Razor and Kessil AP700's are LED fixtures, I don't think it's even fair to compare the two. The Kessils are in a league all their own right now in my opinion and I wouldn't even give the Razor a second look if it was going over my reef. The Kessils are a no brainer and would be the light I would choose. That said, I absolutely love my 360WE's and my corals do as well but if I were to upgrade, I wouldn't think twice about the AP700's. I think they are better in every way than the Razor's and I'm having a hard time not wanting to upgrade my 360WE's. That AP700 is by far the nicest fixture I have seen to date and would be my first choice over any other fixture on the market, hands down.

[SkullV]

I run a Maxspect Razor 15K ovre my display refugium. It's a decent light. I've replaced the driver board once in the last couple years since installing it.

I believe you're talking about the 16k model. The 15k was released recently and has a different led configuration. It also raises the output from 160w to 180w.

In any case, I run a 16k razor over my mixed reef right now and I hate everything about it other than the way the fixture itself looks. The spectrum is awful and the controller is too simple. That being said I wouldn't touch a Kessil fixture over a full SPS reef, but at the same time I wouldn't use any LED fixture over a full sps reef (I'm referring to several grown out 10+" colonies). Been there, done that, shading sucks.

For a mixed reef, particularly LPS and Zoas, Kessil is great and so are other LED options. For SPS, I'll take T5/Halide all day long with or without LED supplements.

[nickdo]

CHECK Razor in person. This fixture is king of the disco ball effect.

[slief]

I believe you're talking about the 16k model. The 15k was released recently and has a different led configuration. It also raises the output from 160w to 180w.

In any case, I run a 16k razor over my mixed reef right now and I hate everything about it other than the way the fixture itself looks. The spectrum is awful and the controller is too simple. That being said I wouldn't touch a Kessil fixture over a full SPS reef, but at the same time I wouldn't use any LED fixture over a full sps reef (I'm referring to several grown out 10+" colonies). Been there, done that, shading sucks.

For a mixed reef, particularly LPS and Zoas, Kessil is great and so are other LED options. For SPS, I'll take T5/Halide all day long with or without LED supplements.

Yep. You are correct. I have the 16k version. My bad, I stand corrected. Either way, I saw the entire Maxspect lineup at MACNA and perused their booth for a fair amount of time. While they look decent on the surface, there was nothing stunning about them as far as their illumination. The came off as just another light to me where as the SP700 stopped people dead in their tracks. Myself included.

As for the shading from Kessils or other LED's, It's all about the light layout and shading is easily overcome with enough lights and or laying them out in such a way that they are directed where you need the light. I have absolutely no shading in my tank whatsoever but I also have my Kessils on articulating mounts and they are aimed such as to overcome shading and maximize my coverage. I also have enough of them to insure that I have great coverage.

Quality LED's work well on SPS tanks but understanding spectrum helps a lot. Especially with the current trend of lights that have umpteen different color diodes and a plenthora of control. It's easy to burn corals or provide too much of the wrong spectrum. Fact is that corans need primarely 420-460nm and too much white does no good for them. Nor does too much red and I think people just get carried away with their settings without realizing that they are doing more harm then good. I've seen some very healthy LED based SPS tanks first hand.

While I am not much of an SPS keeper because I just don't like the headache that comes with them, the SPS pieces I do have that were recently put in my tank and growing faster than any corals I have ever kept. That said, they are easy ones (Monti Caps and green slimers) but I am confident that I could keep virtually any SPS in my tank with success if it weren't for all the soft corals and hammers growing in my tank. My monti's are growing over 1/4" a week now and my slimer is growing over 1/4" a month.

[SkullV]

There are pleny of very successful SPS tanks running solely LED's so it can be done. I've seen it first hand.

I suppose our definition of successful SPS tank must be different. Every one of the truly nice SPS tanks I have seen have switched back to Halide/T5 because of shading issues. I have had most all of the "high end" LED fixtures and several DIY fixtures which have been stellar until the colonies actually grew out. As soon as they grow out, no amount of LED (unless you place them at several angles) will do what T5/Halide can do. To each their own though.

Edit: I suppose I should add, many SPS tanks that are LED lit look OK, but as soon as the owners switch back to their tried and true Halides or T5 or switch to them for the first time, they are always amazed by how quickly the coloration and growth of their SPS colonies improve.

[slief]

I suppose our definition of successful SPS tank must be different. Every one of the truly nice SPS tanks I have seen have switched back to Halide/T5 because of shading issues. To each their own though.

Again, it's all about the number of lights and each fixture presents it's own share of issues. With the Kessils being a true point source light, density and aim is important. Hanging a bunch of them stright down won't help but staggering them and or aiming them helps to overcome shading. Even with fixtures like the Radion's, having them closer to the front and or rear and aiming/tilting them towards the center can do wonders for eliminating shading.

This is how my lights are laid out. Notice how they are aimed. I did this intentionally to overcome the shading effect and spent a fair amount of time with my layout which is 100% adjustable. Not only can I am the lights but they can be slid side to side on my light rack. Each light is aimed individually to address any dark spots and insure even coverage and it works remarkably well. This obviously can difficult over some tanks and with some fixtures but it is doable with some creativity.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Kessil/image_zpsb1dc0659.jpg

[slief]

I suppose our definition of successful SPS tank must be different. Every one of the truly nice SPS tanks I have seen have switched back to Halide/T5 because of shading issues. I have had most all of the "high end" LED fixtures and several DIY fixtures which have been stellar until the colonies actually grew out. As soon as they grow out, no amount of LED (unless you place them at several angles) will do what T5/Halide can do. To each their own though.

Edit: I suppose I should add, many SPS tanks that are LED lit look OK, but as soon as the owners switch back to their tried and true Halides or T5 or switch to them for the first time, they are always amazed by how quickly the coloration and growth of their SPS colonies improve.

It's ironic that this subject came up today regarding the shadowing. I was just emailed this article discussing the very subject and something I learned several years back.. I was surprised to see my light rack in there but I guess I inadvertently contributed to this article. Anyhow, it's a good read and certainly holds some weight. Shadowing and LED's don't have to be synonymous contrary to popular beliefs.
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2015/10/tip-of-the-day-10272015-lighting-angles.html

[mkindsfather]

I'm really digging the new kessil ap700

[SkullV]

It's ironic that this subject came up today regarding the shadowing. I was just emailed this article discussing the very subject and something I learned several years back.. I was surprised to see my light rack in there but I guess I inadvertently contributed to this article. Anyhow, it's a good read and certainly holds some weight. Shadowing and LED's don't have to be synonymous contrary to popular beliefs.
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2015/10/tip-of-the-day-10272015-lighting-angles.html

I guess we're going to just have to agree to disagree here. As someone who has personally kept a tank with large SPS colonies under LEDs (temporarily because of how much I disliked them), I will never do it again with current LED technology. I believe most of the hobbyists who own the "nicest" tanks in the SPS forum share that opinion, but I could be wrong.

Frankly, you can see all sorts of shading in the photo that that author (what is his background in the hobby to lend weight to his blog post?) posted within the blog.

In any case, OP, drop the razor in my opinion. I have one, I don't like it.

[slief]

I guess we're going to just have to agree to disagree here. As someone who has personally kept a tank with large SPS colonies under LEDs (temporarily because of how much I disliked them), I will never do it again with current LED technology. I believe most of the hobbyists who own the "nicest" tanks in the SPS forum share that opinion, but I could be wrong.

Frankly, you can see all sorts of shading in the photo that that author (what is his background in the hobby to lend weight to his blog post?) posted within the blog.

In any case, OP, drop the razor in my opinion. I have one, I don't like it.

That tank in the photo also had metal halides as well as other lights along with those Orphek LED's so if there is shading, it certainly isn't because of LED's. The LED's are only on the perimeter. The other lights are right down the center of the tank.

The author has been in the industry for many many years.

As far as successful tanks being run under LED's.. Here are some very successful tanks that were voted Tanks Of The Month running under just LED. It is note worthy that most of the TOTM's are not just under LED but there are still some very successful tanks out there running solely LED so it can be done and I know a few very successful refers personally who are successful with them. That's not to say that halides wouldn't be better but LED's can work quite well if setup properly.
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/153-tank-of-the-month

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/155-tank-of-the-month

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/150-tank-of-the-month

[slief]

I guess we're going to just have to agree to disagree here. As someone who has personally kept a tank with large SPS colonies under LEDs (temporarily because of how much I disliked them), I will never do it again with current LED technology. I believe most of the hobbyists who own the "nicest" tanks in the SPS forum share that opinion, but I could be wrong.

Frankly, you can see all sorts of shading in the photo that that author (what is his background in the hobby to lend weight to his blog post?) posted within the blog.

In any case, OP, drop the razor in my opinion. I have one, I don't like it.

I figured I would share this one as well since this is a brand new video of a local friend and fellow forum members hugely successful 400 gallon SPS dominant reef tank. This tank has been running on Radion Pro's for well over a year since switching from halides. The lights are mounted on various angles to address shadowing issues and to insure adequet coverage. His growth is spectacular and the health of his system and corals should serve as a benchmark for any reefer regardless of lighting. His corals are literally growing out of the tank. Rest assured I don't think you could convince him that you can't have a very healthy and thriving SPS tank running solely on LED's let alone that shawdowing and LED's go hand in hand. It just isn't true (if setup right) and again, as you duly noted, we can agree to disagree if this doesn't justify my contention. Note that he had a recent kalk enduced crash that wiped out nearly his entire tank which has since bounced back 10 fold. His colonies were grown from frags and I think the tank speaks for itself.

This video doesn't even do this tank any justice.
<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bRthDCUVCpc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>