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View Full Version : Best way to plumb a 120 dual overflow


drew930
08/15/2015, 05:25 PM
Hey everybody. Was wondering what everybody would recommend on plumbing a 120 with dual overflows (Aqueon). Has the 2 holes for drain and 2 for return . I've always just used the megaflow kits and ran a durso standpipe(s). Looking for new ways but safe as well. I've thiught about a herbie style but am a little hesitant. I believe with the herbie , you put a ball valve on main drain correct ? Then the second is for emergency ? Just didn't know if this was safe to do , because what happens if the first gets something stuck or backs up and the emergency drain isn't enough . Just worried about putting a ball valve and stopping the full amount of water that could go through if needed .

The tank will be in the bedroom so I want it to be quiet, but would really take safe over silent. Drilling my own tank, I might elect a bean animal or such , but with a reef ready tank being drilled in the bottom. Should I just put some airline tubing out of the durso with a valve and call it done ?

drew930
08/15/2015, 05:35 PM
I think maybe I might be over thinking it since so many people do it . But say for instance , your return pump is ran wide open , and the first drain clogs . All of that water would be put on the emergency pipe. How do you make sure that your emergency pipe can handle ALL of the return pumps water if your first drain clogs ?

malawinovice
08/16/2015, 02:27 PM
I ran my 120 with dual drains as follows

Left drains , Set up as herbie. One with valve, one overflow no valve.
Right drains. One as return, one with valve.

Works great. Essentially just have the right drain valve open just enough so the overflow water does not get stagnant.

malawinovice
08/16/2015, 02:31 PM
I ran my 120 with dual drains as follows

Left drains , Set up as herbie. One with valve, one overflow no valve.
Right drains. One as return, one with valve.

Works great. Essentially just have the right drain valve open just enough so the overflow water does not get stagnant.

drew930
08/16/2015, 09:27 PM
I ran my 120 with dual drains as follows

Left drains , Set up as herbie. One with valve, one overflow no valve.
Right drains. One as return, one with valve.

Works great. Essentially just have the right drain valve open just enough so the overflow water does not get stagnant.

I thought about trying this, but didn't know if there were any cons. Such as too low of flow for sump for skimmer or fuge. I think If I were able to do it, I could accomplish a silent overflow (finally!):headwally: But is there any cons I might be missing ? 3 drains definitely seems safe though.

drew930
08/17/2015, 04:24 PM
bump...

has anyone else ran 3 drains and 1 only 1 3/4" return ? Have a Sicce 5.0 if it matters.

ca1ore
08/17/2015, 04:45 PM
I currently run my dual overflow 265 with three down and one up. One corner is configured as a typical herbie; the other as a siphon/return. I'm not a massive flow-through-sump guy though. If I was, I think I'd do dual herbies and either a back drilled return or over the back (breaks out in hives at the thought).

drew930
08/17/2015, 07:14 PM
Maybe I should then . Im not too worried about having a certain amount of flow through sump. As long as its not bad. I was going to run a manifold too. Might help with just one return. Then the manifold wouldn't have to be between the returns either. Are all yours drains individual ? Or is it okay to tie 2 of them together with a T ?

Example: Left Overflow - left drain goes straight down. Right drain in left overflow is connect with a T with the drain from right overflow. Or is this counterintuitive since the drains are connected ?

drew930
08/17/2015, 08:44 PM
Is it safe to say, that with a manifold, and dialing the Sicce 5.0 back just a hair (I found about 1000gph @ 5ft head), with even 2 drains I would be safe right ? So the first 2 would handle it just fine, and the drain thats in the overflow with the return, could be connect with a T to the emergency drain in the other overflow ?

And if I do this, I just want a standpipe with a strainer on the siphon overflow correct ? Your not supposed to do a durso correct, just a straight up and down standpipe? But Its probably safer to add strainer to all of them to keep from anything clogging them .

Johnseye
08/18/2015, 08:35 AM
bump...

has anyone else ran 3 drains and 1 only 1 3/4" return ? Have a Sicce 5.0 if it matters.

I have an Aqueon 120g, same as yours with Herbie. 1 return and 3 drains, one of which is an emergency. All pipe is 1". Works great, much better than the Durso which I ran for about a year. That was loud. The Herbie is very quiet. No problems with the 1 return which I was concerned about. I did add a lot more flow with a larger pump.

ca1ore
08/18/2015, 08:52 AM
Maybe I should then . Im not too worried about having a certain amount of flow through sump. As long as its not bad. I was going to run a manifold too. Might help with just one return. Then the manifold wouldn't have to be between the returns either. Are all yours drains individual ? Or is it okay to tie 2 of them together with a T ?

Example: Left Overflow - left drain goes straight down. Right drain in left overflow is connect with a T with the drain from right overflow. Or is this counterintuitive since the drains are connected ?

You CAN tie the two siphons together, though I find it convenient to keep mine separate because I like the ability to adjust them separately and I take advantage of gravity wherever I can. The emergency/open channel should be an individual pipe with as few twists and turns as possible. The issue with dual siphons but only a single backup, is whether that backup could handle all the flow in the event both siphons were completely blocked. We can conclude that the chances of a complete blockage of both at the same time is very unlikely (particularly if you have screens on the drains), and so I live with it given I am also running relatively low flow.

drew930
08/18/2015, 10:04 AM
Heres basically the option that I am envisioning. Excuse my drawing and pencil bleeding through the paper !

With 2 Drains (1") and 2 Returns (3/4"), Im thinking something like this:

Here is the 2 returns. I was thinking EXACTLY like this, BUT CEPEX Ball Valves instead of the Gate Valves and Union (SlipxThread) near bulkheads. This will be cheaper and less parts.
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/drew930/IMG_4279_zps7weet25k.jpg (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/drew930/media/IMG_4279_zps7weet25k.jpg.html)

Close up of Manifold. I thought about using 1/2" or 3/4" CEPEX ball valves here, even thought they are not added.
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/drew930/IMG_4280_zpsdf4aezid.jpg (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/drew930/media/IMG_4280_zpsdf4aezid.jpg.html)






With 3 Drains (1"), and 1 return (3/4"). I was thinking this:

The return would look like this, basically the same without the left side.
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/drew930/IMG_4281_zpslcqoqz5d.jpg (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/drew930/media/IMG_4281_zpslcqoqz5d.jpg.html)


And the Drains would look like this. Again with CEPEX ball valves instead of Gate valves. Far left would emergency. Then second from left, would be the full siphon. Then on the right side with the return, it would basically be a back up emergency, so water is not stagnant.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/drew930/IMG_4283_zpsy42rwpbg.jpg (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/drew930/media/IMG_4283_zpsy42rwpbg.jpg.html)


Couple of questions that I have, are:

1. Is these okay then ? Or should I change something ?
2. Is it okay to have 1 full siphon and 2 emergencies like I drew^^ ? Or should their be 2 siphons ?
3. If it is okay to have the 1 siphon and 2 emergencies, should it be T'd like I have it , or should the emergencies be T'd together.

Sorry for all the confusion. Just something new to me here and I don't want to mess up. Thanks to all of you so far for sharing and explaning.

drew930
08/18/2015, 08:10 PM
Bumping one last time. I am hoping to get all my supplies soon so thought I would see if I could get anymore advice on running the herbie style with 3 Drains , etc . Looks like it is completely fine to do 3 drains , but would this be right ? ^^

Thanks

drew930
08/18/2015, 08:33 PM
malawinovice, Johnseye, and ca1ore....

Feel free to post pics. Seeing some 3 drain set ups with 1 return would probably help me out a little bit.

Johnseye , what pump were you using before ? Think a Sicce 5.0 would work for me or do you think I need to add more power ? Just want to make sure I'm properly moving enough water per hour so the skimmer and reactors can go to work.

drew930
08/19/2015, 09:05 AM
I read a little bit ago that it is bad to have a manifold with a full siphon overflow, since the flow of the reactors can be reduced with dirty media. But is this okay with 3 drains ? I'm also reading a full siphon 1" can handle about 330 gph, and a 1" drain without full siphon can handle upwards of 1000. That would be about 1300gph that the 2 drains could handle correct ? And my 1321gph Sicce, running 4-5ft head pressure with a manifold should probably be no more than 800-900 right ?

I want to do the return in 3/4" so I'm not sure if that will lessen the GPH on the pump . I'm not sure if the ratings are based off 1" or 3/4". But either way , even if I turned off reactors , the emergencies should be able to handle it right ? Just be a little noises until reactors go back on line ?

I'm going to have a ball valve between the bulkhead and manifold too , so even if I shut off the reactors , their shouldn't be more flow added to the DT ?

ca1ore
08/19/2015, 09:28 AM
I read a little bit ago that it is bad to have a manifold with a full siphon overflow, since the flow of the reactors can be reduced with dirty media. But is this okay with 3 drains ? I'm also reading a full siphon 1" can handle about 330 gph, and a 1" drain without full siphon can handle upwards of 1000. That would be about 1300gph that the 2 drains could handle correct ? And my 1321gph Sicce, running 4-5ft head pressure with a manifold should probably be no more than 800-900 right ?

Any change in the flow of the main pump (or obstruction of the siphons) will affect the balance of the herbie setup. Either will manifest itself through excess water flowing down the emergency or suction noise. Simply requires adjusting the gate valves.

You have your flow numbers backwards. A fully open 1" siphon will move a ton of water. Depends a bit on the drop, but 2,000 gph easily. A 1" open channel/durso, on the other hand, will start to flush at 500 gallons with an unsafe upper limit of about 700 gph. All numbers approximate :)

Assuming your pump net you 900 gph after head losses, dual siphons will easily handle 450 each (gate valves will be significantly throttled). Should both become coincidentally occluded, you'd have a problem (unless you make the emergency bigger than 1") but that's unlikely. Essentially this is how I run my tank with a similar net flow number.

drew930
08/19/2015, 12:57 PM
Thanks for the reply !

So it is safe to do three 1" drains while having a 3/4" return from my understanding.

I think the only part I'm confused on now is the siphon.... I'll want 2 siphons and 1 emergency ? Or 1 siphon with 2 emergencies ? Or does it matter ? Just confused because you were saying that the only ISSUE with 2 siphons is there is only one back up . Does this mean for my system , I should do 1 siphon and 1 emergency in one overflow . Then in the other do a return and a second emergency ?

Then this would allow me to T the 2 emergencies right and run a safer operation ?

ca1ore
08/19/2015, 02:43 PM
The issue with doing two emergencies is that one of the corner overflows will essentially be non functional. You may be able to get away with it on a 4' tank, but maybe not. I'd do 2 siphon/1 emergency, put screens on all the pipes and the chance of a dual blockage is negligible.

drew930
08/19/2015, 03:58 PM
Okay , so run 2 siphons , with a ball valve on each correct ? Then just run the emergency with no valve .

And can I "T" anything with 2 siphons ? Like the emergency with 1 siphon ? Or is that basically pointless ? Sump has a spot for 2 drains , that's why I ask. Worst case I could run it over the the sump but kind of thought the pipes would support each other because of the T.

And this would be how you run it right ...
Left overflow : emergency , siphon
Right overflow : return , siphon

Johnseye
08/20/2015, 08:11 AM
malawinovice, Johnseye, and ca1ore....

Feel free to post pics. Seeing some 3 drain set ups with 1 return would probably help me out a little bit.

Johnseye , what pump were you using before ? Think a Sicce 5.0 would work for me or do you think I need to add more power ? Just want to make sure I'm properly moving enough water per hour so the skimmer and reactors can go to work.

I was using a Speedwave 5000 DC pump @ 1320GPH. Now I'm using a Red Dragon 3 Speedy @ 2100GPH. That's going through one return now as opposed to two and where I had 2 90 degree elbows I now have 2 45 degree elbows.

2 siphons and one emergency. I would run Spears gate valves if you can afford it. Ball valves will work but not as well. No valve on the emergency. I have my 2 siphons running into socks in the sump and the e drain running straight into the sump. Nothing really comes out of it but maybe a trickle. No real pressure unless the DT water level gets too high which it really doesn't ever do. All separate lines, no Ts on the drains. I wanted to keep my flows separate. I do have a small T with a valve on the return which feeds my GFO/Carbon reactor. That allowed me to eliminate a pump in the sump. The flow coming off the return into the reactor is very minimal.

RockOn681
08/20/2015, 08:24 AM
I would be more concerned with T'ing together any of the drains. The issue then would be if one gets clogged lower down the piping not one but 2 of your pipes become clogged. I would try my best to run individual pipes for the drains. A turbo snail or something similar could easily make its way to a T and get caught there.

Johnseye
08/20/2015, 09:28 AM
I would be more concerned with T'ing together any of the drains. The issue then would be if one gets clogged lower down the piping not one but 2 of your pipes become clogged. I would try my best to run individual pipes for the drains. A turbo snail or something similar could easily make its way to a T and get caught there.

Agreed. Strainers on all drains in the overflow can help prevent this. I also put black acrylic covers on my overflows. Not much will get in there or live.

drew930
08/20/2015, 11:01 AM
Thanks ! Will do 2 siphons , 1 drain . Strainers on all drains , and will not T any of the drains . Still debating about the spears vs cepex. I like the though of the spears valves , but more expensive , plus even more expensive because you have to get unions . Or could get thread x thread spears , but I hate thinking of using a lot of threaded fittings .

Johnseye
08/20/2015, 10:54 PM
Thanks ! Will do 2 siphons , 1 drain . Strainers on all drains , and will not T any of the drains . Still debating about the spears vs cepex. I like the though of the spears valves , but more expensive , plus even more expensive because you have to get unions . Or could get thread x thread spears , but I hate thinking of using a lot of threaded fittings .
I bought threaded Spears. If you have the room you can do it but adding thread to slip PVC adapter for the pipe adds some length.

drew930
08/21/2015, 09:45 AM
I was thinking that it would . Might just go with the ball valves so there's a little more space .